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post #1 of 110 Old 09-04-2011, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone -
I'm Mike and thanks for stopping by. I've been saying I would start this and now is the time. I've been working over the past 2 years on finishing the rest of the basement and now getting into the theater space.

I want to start by saying that everyone on this forum has incredible builds going and the knowledge is unbelievable. I hope to learn a fraction of what some seem to know about theaters here and thank you for sharing.

I've been browsing the forum for over 2 years now and been collecting ideas and information. I've settled on a plan and have started the build. So I want to get everyone up to speed.

Overview
My thread name was chosen because the space I left for the theater has a window due to our walkout, so hence the view (and the not so ideal set-up).



The theater space shell is approximately 12'w x 15'l with just about 10' to the floor joists.

The overall plan showing part of the basement is below;


Plan View of Theater


Side View


The equipment will be stored in the storage room behind the theater in the first pic above.

Equipment List:
1. Projector: TBD (looking at Panny AE7000 or JVCRS50U)
2. Screen: 110" 2.40 scope; TBD (leaning towards SMX)
3. Speakers: Dali Phantom Ikon In-Walls for LF/RF,RR,RL and Dali Vokal In-wall for Center. Will add 2 rear in ceiling at future point.
4. Sub: IB set-up; 2 x 15" Fi drivers
5. Sub Amp: Behringer EP4000
6. Sub Eq: Behringer DSp1124P
7: Amp: TBD (probably Anthem PVA7)
8: DVD: TBD (probably Oppo BD93)
9: Pre/Pro: TBD
10: HDMI Switcher: TBD (looking into Altona HDMI Matrix switcher)
11: Others; Network switcher, PC, DirectTV receiver

Open to any suggestions to equipment....pros/cons/adds...

Current Stage of Build:
The current stage of build is putting up the drywall. Hope to be done this weekend. I'll show you below some of the steps upto this point (and expect to hear some oh, Mike, you forgot this or that).

At early framing stage; looking towards theater door from across basement


Screen Wall prior to covering


Looking towards door and front wall

the box in the pic is covering up the drain pipe as it comes from the kitchen sink on the other side. Plan is this will be within the IB cavity space.

Looking at back wall


the duct work is a passive return vent that dumps into the main basement space shown below (theater door is in background).
I've also added a lead-in pipe to pick up PJ exhaust, which I plan to run an in-line fan for that is not in the pics yet.


Side wall looking from door


I'll post more pics once we finish up more work tomorrow.

Thanks for tuning in and look forward to the feedback.

Mike
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post #2 of 110 Old 09-04-2011, 10:40 PM
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Moving right along! Is the screen 110" wide or diagonal 2.4:1? I can't wait to see the space transform, it looks like you're off to a smashing start.

edit: is the sectional couch in your drawing staying or are you planning for theatre seats? I'm a fan of big sectional seating and am planning for something like that in my own space. Maybe I've found a kindred spirit!
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post #3 of 110 Old 09-06-2011, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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jd - just finished going through you build. You got a great space there. You've 1+ on the forum w/ those videos. Love them.

The planned screen is 110" diag. If the space was long enough for 2 rows of seats, I would have probably still mixed in a couch along with dedicated recliners. But for this room space, I wanted to keep the feel of a place to lounge w/ the family as well on a big couch.

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post #4 of 110 Old 09-08-2011, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok - got through the weekend and some progress. Finished up the plywood layer and just about finished all the GG/drywall layer...I choose to call drywall timesuck layer...it always takes me longer than I plan!

Here are some pics of the progress...

Rear wall


Screen wall


Door wall


Here's the projector vent that will dump into the dead vent going out of the theater...it ended up lower than I planned and I'll have to rethink my soffit layout as it blends around the perimeter....topic for a future post for idea request.




And the ceremonial GG and board shot...


and the rented little yellow lifter...big help


rear window w/ the drywall...


anyone have experience with soundproof window panes like here...

Screen wall...



I need to spend some time on redrawing my screen wall details for the stack up as I want to try and increase the seating distance by 6"-12" if I can...more to come.

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post #5 of 110 Old 09-10-2011, 03:25 PM
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Looking good Mike! Man, I really don't like Drywall.... you're thread reminder how much work it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by misugrad View Post

Ok - got through the weekend and some progress. Finished up the plywood layer and just about finished all the GG/drywall layer...I choose to call drywall timesuck layer...it always takes me longer than I plan!

Here are some pics of the progress...

Rear wall


Screen wall


Door wall


Here's the projector vent that will dump into the dead vent going out of the theater...it ended up lower than I planned and I'll have to rethink my soffit layout as it blends around the perimeter....topic for a future post for idea request.




And the ceremonial GG and board shot...


and the rented little yellow lifter...big help


rear window w/ the drywall...


anyone have experience with soundproof window panes like here...

Screen wall...



I need to spend some time on redrawing my screen wall details for the stack up as I want to try and increase the seating distance by 6"-12" if I can...more to come.

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post #6 of 110 Old 09-11-2011, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Mark - and to think that the hanging of the drywall is the easy part...tape, mud, sand...oh, I REAAAALLLY love that step!

Mike
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post #7 of 110 Old 09-11-2011, 12:45 PM
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Lookin' good. Why did Mike feel the need to quote ALL your pictures?

Adding a layer of glazing inside your existing window will help. I don't know if it'd be worth the work though. Looks like you have wood casement windows which generally seal up pretty well (a lot of sound transmission is via air leaks).

High Desert Theater - work in progress
Building Bass - Subs

Surrounds - Easy as Pi

Storage - unRAID unDELL

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post #8 of 110 Old 09-13-2011, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Petew - Mark probably just clicked wrong, but no harm done I'm sure. The window is wood casement. I'm not much worried about the neighbors, since the window faces towards the pond and since we have a pie-shaped lot, we face 90deg from our next door neighbor. Just want to look into alternatives.

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post #9 of 110 Old 09-13-2011, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Officially all the drywall is hung up and done...have not started the mudding yet as it's not my favorite thing to do. I'm not sure if I want to fully finish the walls (just mud) and then have them covered w/ accoustic panel/cloth fully or have the walls paintable and work in individual panels....the more I surf and look through threads here and in mags; the more analysis-paralysis I get in deciding the design I'm looking for fully.


Here's screen wall...


And backwall....look my seat is in!




Then this past weekend, got a few goodies

The Behringer EU EP4000 amp for the IB...good packaging






And the Behringer DSP1124 EQ....








now just need those 2 OTHER brown boxes to arrive....

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post #10 of 110 Old 09-18-2011, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I've started the mudding/taping and I've been pondering the front wall and IB set up and could use some advice.

I'm trying to keep the screen flush inside the thickest part of the front wall (to keep viewing distance over 11') while trying to maintain a cavity for the IB itself.
1st question; in the side view below, does the construction seem realistic in regards to the stack up of elements? Having the OC behind the screen, cavity around it?



2nd question; in this top view; is the location at the edge of screen showing the bass traps as appropriate location or should they be flushed behind the screen plane?


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post #11 of 110 Old 09-18-2011, 11:46 PM
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That would depend on the net volume of the IB cavity. Can you calculate it?
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post #12 of 110 Old 09-19-2011, 12:14 AM
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Looks like you are making fast progress. J

Just a thought on the IB. You want to make sure that you leave enough space between the top and bottom chambers of the IB. Ive read that the space needs to be open enough.. I think I read something about someone trying to use a chimney as an IB chamber which ended up like a poorly tuned transmission line speaker. I would try to leave as much room as possible behind the screen (like just recessing the center channel speaker in a box rather than sinking the entire screen behind the wall. From your drawings it looks like you have a larger area behind the screen than needed.

How much volume does the IB area have, and how wide is the area behind the screen?
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post #13 of 110 Old 09-19-2011, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Stockmonkey2k/Mayem13 - On the IB enclosure, I estimate that the total volume would be approximately 83 ft^3 or 2320L. I'm planning on two 15" Fi IB3's. These kick out 366.6 Vas. Therefore, I'm at 6.3xVas as an estimate.

I was planning on the cavity behind the screen to be open to the larger lower and upper chambers as depicted in the side view rendering - to avoid the "chimney or pipe" effects. It would be more of a narrow chamber the width of the screen connecting the larger rectangular areas along top/bottom and sides. I'm trying to make a google sketch-up of the 3D to help depcit it better


Any comments on the bass trap question by anyone?

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post #14 of 110 Old 09-19-2011, 10:00 PM
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Sounds like you should be fine on the IB chamber - Just want to avoid loading the drivers. The locations for the bass trapping is good. It would be better to have them in the room than to take up more space for the IB chamber.
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post #15 of 110 Old 09-19-2011, 10:12 PM
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Another thought on the bass traps. Rather than having them on the floor (at least thats what it appears like in your drawing) I would try integrating them into the stage. Something like this.



Then when you cover it with fabric it will look integrated with the stage and screen.

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post #16 of 110 Old 09-20-2011, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Impressive quick sketches - your screen?

I'm not going to have a formal stage - my room isn't large enough for it. My vision is more of a lower box/cabinet enclosure for the screen....tried to depict it in my sketch below. I figure the panels next to screen can be the traps covered in material. Do they need to be triangular like I've seen on many other builds here?


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post #17 of 110 Old 09-20-2011, 11:52 PM
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No not my screen just a quick sketch. Mine does look similar though except my screen will be on a false wall with the traps behind.

The reason for the triangular traps is you get a lot of material in the corners where they are the most effective. You need pretty thick material to be effective in the bass frequencies. They do not need to be triangular but it is an effective way to use the material. If you have a 2x4 rigid fiberglass panel you can cut each sheet into 4 or 8 triangles and stack them.
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post #18 of 110 Old 09-27-2011, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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so i've been mudding, taping, sanding hour here, hour there. In the between free time I have I 've been sharpening my google sketch-up skills. I've put together my latest model images below. I've put a couch in to get a sense of the space.

Open for any comments, thoughts, etc. Thx




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post #19 of 110 Old 09-28-2011, 04:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Also, I could use some ideas on a particular rear corner as my rear and side soffit's come together (red circle area in image below). The rear soffit is lower than the sides due to the pj exhaust duct (which is on right side of image) which is shown in earlier posted construction pics. I got the WAF on just the way the rendering is but I'm not sure that really looks finished. Eventually in the corners, within the rear soffit, I'll be putting in-ceiling speakers to get to 7. Any ideas on how to better integrate/blend?


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post #20 of 110 Old 09-28-2011, 08:26 AM
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Looks okay to me, Mike. But if you want to draw up some alternatives, I'd suggest trying a capital for the column that ends flush with the edges you're trying to integrate. Does that make sense? I'm assuming you'll be building columns on both sides, symmetrically.

I think if that drawing is properly to scale, it'll come out looking awkward, but maybe not.

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post #21 of 110 Old 09-28-2011, 08:47 AM
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I think I would try to build out another small 4 inch or so soffit that blends in with your others. You could extend the existing soffit all the way to the wall then build another small one on top. Something like this.

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post #22 of 110 Old 09-28-2011, 09:35 AM
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Quote:


3. Speakers: Dali Phantom Ikon In-Walls for LF/RF,RR,RL and Dali Vokal In-wall for Center. Will add 2 rear in ceiling at future point.

Your front LCR will be behind an AT screen, right? Have you thought about using three identical speakers for the LCR, instead of using a different speaker for the center? If appearance is not an issue, three identical speakers for the front are usually preferred.

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post #23 of 110 Old 09-28-2011, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Fred - thx for the idea. That might be a good alternative. I'll play around w/ the dimensions/placement of the column. I have ability to widen it and/or slide it some fore/aft on the wall. That idea might help tie in a column theme I have in the basement shown below;

SM2 - thx for the idea as well. I'll try it, but that idea might make the column be too large - to make it flow into the rear wall and then have the front 2 columns match.


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post #24 of 110 Old 09-28-2011, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi DwightTP - thanks for commenting. Yes, I do plan to have an AT screen. However, I've heard that it's good to start there as identical speakers for all the fronts in type (brand same manufacturer), but if not, that the drivers/material of all front speakers be the same. My limited knowledge on this subject is that your center channel is generally there to handle the workload of voice/speach of the soundtrack while "anchoring" it to the video/image on the screen. The RF/LF speakers then pick up the brader sound field to aid in capturing right/left sounds of the image being shown, along with other misc soundtrack elements. My Dali Vokal has 2 x 5" wood fibre cone drivers, while the L/R Ikon's have a 6.5" driver of same material. They have the same ribbon tweeter and both enclosed in aluminum boxes. I've asked the question on the Dali forum here to potentially get a more educated response than what I have offered.

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post #25 of 110 Old 10-01-2011, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I got some work done. I started the soffits. I decided to just run the shorter sides and leave the rear soffit taller. I'll work out integrating with the side columns as I progress.

One thing occurred to me...I should have taken the HVAC to the other side of the room where the door is; now I'll have a grill/vent on the soffit as you are viewing when you enter the room (my OCD kicking in). Now with the column and light placement I don't know where to put the vent.





here's the hvac...where to put the vent...2 columns spaced (ref wires)


and gotta get the mandatory blue tape screen pic up...

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post #26 of 110 Old 10-02-2011, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misugrad View Post

Also, I could use some ideas on a particular rear corner as my rear and side soffit's come together (red circle area in image below).

I don't know what sort of couch you are actually putting in the space, but if the image you posted is partially accurate, you might consider putting columns in the rear corners with base traps. They don't have to be triangular, they can be square. Try running them right up to the corner where your soffits come together in Sketch-up and see how it looks.

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post #27 of 110 Old 11-19-2011, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, it's been long enough that I got the "I am aware this is an old thread." message. Thx for rubbing it in AVS!

It's been a very busy month...just not for working in the HT. But I managed to do a few minor items and have big plans for this upcoming week to make a push in the project.

Started the base for the IB sub to sit on. Just made a box, plastic, ~70lbs of sand and a solid base....






And getting outer shell on the IB glued...



I also found the following switch for the in-line PJ exhaust fan I installed.
Got the switch from Grainger. I had an electrician over today and we couldn't figure out the wiring...hit the fuse and the fan just stayed on?!
Anyone have any idea how to wire this thing?








Goal over the next week is to stuff and finish the soffits. I plan to have the soffits w/ a stained wood.
I had a thought about using the rear soffit space to the sides of the PJ as bass traps in below pic.

Would this work?



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post #28 of 110 Old 11-23-2011, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Got some hours into the theater finally...of course it was between painting kids bathroom, misc work and of course was made to go see Breaking Dawn w/ the wife in the middle of the day....funny; she was rushing me because she thought it would be crowded. I guessed there would be 5 women there and us....sure enough 6 women and (3 alone, 2 friends, and 1 w/ her boyfriend - who had the same look on his face that I probably had)...

Anyway, got the IB box sealed, painted and set in it's home finally...but not w/out trouble. I didn't route the recess lip enough to allow the 15" FI sit easily (those suckers are heavy in a small space). So I had to move some (7 to be exact) of the t-nuts so the clamps could capture the rim...I went with same angle brackets from HD to secure it to its base.




I got the framing mostly done on the IB/Screen wall....one question regarding the low frequencies...should I cut open slots (red boxes) in the image below to allow the low frequencies to propagate throughout the space behind the screen wall?




Next to take a few days lag for family stuff...but next on the list;
- finish speaker wall
- front speaker enclosure boxes
- add insulation to IB cavity
- close up IB cavity
- pray I didn't forget something in the IB cavity
- finish wiring the PJ fan thermostat (got a replacement since my last wiring post...I know, it must be the part, not the electrician)
....

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post #29 of 110 Old 11-24-2011, 06:13 AM
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Quote:


I had a thought about using the rear soffit space to the sides of the PJ as bass traps in below pic.

Would this work?

This would work. Using any soffits as bass dampers would be effective, in theory likely even better than the triangles in the corners as it gets thicker/more material there. At LF it's about the mass and size of the lump of stuff, not the precise face shape. And typically in a small room, the more LF damping the better.

If they're 12+ inches thick, in theory pink fluffy is better than compressed f'glass boards (and it's cheaper) so just fill 'em with fluffy. I'd suggest faced batts on the outsides then just fill 'em up - this will minimize HF absorption which is a good thing depending on one's acoustical bent. The only challenge is to keep the fluffy from compressing too much - if it compresses 2x you are probably fine, maybe even 3x but you don't want it extremely smashed and you want a reasonably continuous density throughout the device. For the horizontal ones you can just pile up attic batts, for the vertical ones you either need to put in regular separators or hang the batts.

Quote:


one question regarding the low frequencies...should I cut open slots (red boxes) in the image below to allow the low frequencies to propagate throughout the space behind the screen wall?

Perhaps I'm not entirely understanding, but your IB is not infinite in the sense that the back chamber doesn't go to a basement or attic or anything but only your screen wall, right? If so you need all the volume you can get to make it something near infinite. I believe it's supposed to be at bare minimum 4x Vas (times number of drivers), preferred 10x Vas. My only concern would be whether it would make your screen shake in and out.

To get precise help on the thermostat you will need to post links to a higher resolution scan of the instructions. However hopefully one of the screws is marked "line" which goes to the input (I'd guess the middle one but it's a big guess). My guess is that one of the other screws is switched to it while the other is open when temp is above or below the setting, and the situation switches in the other setting. I'd use the continuity check function on a multimeter to check continuity from the line terminal to the other two with the dial cranked to the top, then cranked to the bottom, and that will probably answer the question. This therm is Grainger 2E158, right? The price is right, that's for sure. Since I may want one soon, I'm definitely interested.

What sort of inline fan are you using?
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post #30 of 110 Old 11-24-2011, 05:33 PM
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I like the looks of the furniture in your SketchUp. Is that based on real furniture that you have or are buying? I'm interested in something similar but I haven't been looking that hard. Your theatre is coming along great!
jdanforth is offline  
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

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