The "I Want it Done" Build Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 104 Old 10-23-2011, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Struggling with my new screen... After watching a full movie (Top Gun DVD) Wednesday night with no issues, I all of a sudden started to notice the weave in the material on bright scenes. This did not start until after I hung the screen on the false wall I got built Thursday (pics to come). I am not happy about the pattern showing up all of a sudden. I don't know how I didn't notice this previously when the screen was just temporarily mounted on the wall (behind the new false wall). I moved my seats back an equivalent amount to account for viewing distance changes, so that should not be the problem.

Any chance I could have installed the screen material with the back side facing out? They looked the same and the directions didn't specify which side was which. Any other thoughts to help this?
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post #32 of 104 Old 10-23-2011, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelton325 View Post

Struggling with my new screen... After watching a full movie (Top Gun DVD) Wednesday night with no issues, I all of a sudden started to notice the weave in the material on bright scenes. This did not start until after I hung the screen on the false wall I got built Thursday (pics to come). I am not happy about the pattern showing up all of a sudden. I don't know how I didn't notice this previously when the screen was just temporarily mounted on the wall (behind the new false wall). I moved my seats back an equivalent amount to account for viewing distance changes, so that should not be the problem.

Any chance I could have installed the screen material with the back side facing out? They looked the same and the directions didn't specify which side was which. Any other thoughts to help this?

I bought a 100" electric Elite Screen with the same material. In my opinion the material is horrendous and I'm surprised they actually sell it to people. Since then I've purchased an Accuscreen 106" fixed frame screen with their SoundScreen Matte White material. It's fantastic and you can't see any pattern what-so-ever. If it helps you feel more comfortable when considering this screen, just know that Accuscreens is owned by Draper. They use Accuscreens name because their name is usually synonymous with higher end screens.
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post #33 of 104 Old 10-23-2011, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

I bought a 100" electric Elite Screen with the same material. In my opinion the material is horrendous and I'm surprised they actually sell it to people. Since then I've purchased an Accuscreen 106" fixed frame screen with their SoundScreen Matte White material. It's fantastic and you can't see any pattern what-so-ever. If it helps you feel more comfortable when considering this screen, just know that Accuscreens is owned by Draper. They use Accuscreens name because their name is usually synonymous with higher end screens.

Did you have any recourse with Elite or did you just eat the cost of the screen? The $700 I just shelled out is making me a little sick to my stomach.

I just emailed Elite from the support link to see what they can do. This development is very discouraging...
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post #34 of 104 Old 10-23-2011, 05:36 PM
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Maybe another alternative to consider is replacing the material with the Seymour XD material and keeping the existing frame. I am not sure is this is possible, but you could call Chris Seymour and inquire. I have read a lot of very positive things about his screen material although the weave may also be visible on bright scenes if you are not at the proper seating distance.
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post #35 of 104 Old 10-23-2011, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys... Here are some shots... The 3rd one that is close up shows the pattern is closer than the viewing distance but shows what I see from both my front and back row viewing distances.














I think my first avenue will be to pursue a swap of the AT screen with one of the other fabrics that pair up with the ezFrame. I can live with relocating my speakers as an alternative to the poor picture.

Second avenue may be the AccuScreen - at $250 that wouldn't be too bad, although I am kicking myself for not going there first!

Will keep everyone posted.
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post #36 of 104 Old 10-24-2011, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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UPDATE:

Heard back from Elite today less than 12 hours after filling out the online contact form. The rep mentioned that my problem was a moire effect and that they would be happy to replace the material. They directed me to the RMA link where I had to input the Serial Number and attach a proof of purchase and a picture of the problem. I completed that so hopefully I can get new material soon. If that doesn't fix the problem and it truly is something inherent in the AcousticPro screen, I will ask them for one of the other screen material types.
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post #37 of 104 Old 10-26-2011, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Heard back from Elite they are shipping me a new screen with the newest version of fabric that supposedly doesn't have the problem. Cross your fingers folks.

So far very impressed with Elite's service - if the new screen solves it will be very happy.
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post #38 of 104 Old 10-30-2011, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kelton325 View Post

Did you have any recourse with Elite or did you just eat the cost of the screen? The $700 I just shelled out is making me a little sick to my stomach.

I just emailed Elite from the support link to see what they can do. This development is very discouraging...

I pretty much got screwed over. I didn't buy directly through Elite and the 3rd party dealer I bought it from has quite possible the worst return policy known to man. I forget all the fees the rep told me about but essentially they wanted their money back for them shipping it to me, I'd have to pay to ship it back (obviously), there was also a 20% restocking fee, and I could only return it if it was either unopened or repackaged exactly how it went out as. All tallied up I would only get a little more than half of what I payed for it in the first place. I'm trying to sell the thing to the next sucker on ebay and try to get at least some of my money back. Did you purchase your screen directly through them? If I can't sell or replace this screen I don't know what I'm going to do.
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post #39 of 104 Old 11-01-2011, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, here is a similar view of my screen (used the camera lens cover for reference). Still waiting on the new material, been a week almost - time to follow back up.

Also, the replacement shipment of ceiling tiles came in - damaged AGAIN! Every single one of them had creases where the box looked crushed.

All of this defective/damaged stuff is getting old.

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post #40 of 104 Old 11-01-2011, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

Did you purchase your screen directly through them? If I can't sell or replace this screen I don't know what I'm going to do.

I bought through Amazon and no problems so far with the claim, they (Elite) sent me an email stating it was shipped but I haven't received it yet.
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post #41 of 104 Old 11-03-2011, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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New screen material arrived today - great news right? Wrong, terrible news - it looks worse. The weave was definitely different and looked much tighter and uniform, so I was hopeful, but when I got it up there were a bunch of almost veritical lines clearly visible in almost all shades of light except black. If the quality of the picture before was 6 out of 10, it's 2 out of 10 now. Is there any way this could be due to the rolling of the fabric for shipping and something that will stretch out? If not, I'll be asking for another material that is not AT and a refund of the price difference.





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post #42 of 104 Old 11-10-2011, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Heard back from Elite, nice guy who was very apologetic. They offered me the CineWhite material, which is nice, however he would not agree to refund the cost difference, which was $259 from Amazon.

Hopefully the CineWhite will look good, and my speaker set up won't be too compromised.

Also received the 2nd replacement shipment of the ceiling tiles - these were undamaged, finally! Will finish the ceiling installation this weekend.
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post #43 of 104 Old 12-03-2011, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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It's been a slow month with the screen material and ceiling tile struggles. I did receive the CineWhite material from Elite, which is far better than the AcousticPro, however in bright scenes there is some noticeable sparkling - I don't know a better way to describe it, but it's like little dots that seem to be reflecting too much light. I'm wondering if my Epson 8700ub mounted at about 14 feet is too close? I bought the Disney WOW calibration Bluray thinking maybe that would help me, but haven't had time to do much with it. Playing with the brightness and contrast settings on the projector hasn't helped. After watching a few football games and movies, I decided I can live with it, but overall I am dissapointed that I paid $700 for an AT screen, had to do 2 exchanges of material and go through all that pain, and now I have a screen that isn't AT and I'm still not 100% happy with. It will work, but leaves a bad taste.

I also finally got a shipment of ceiling tiles that wasn't damaged, and got those up, and all of the can light & speaker trim. I am happy with the look, I just need to touch up some spots on the rails where the paint got nicked up during installation.

And the biggest news of all is that the Riser is BUILT! I hit up my Dad the day after Thanksgiving to borrow his truck to get lumber, and he oh so kindly decided to work with me all day, which was HUGE. I could have done it but it would have taken probably 3 days but with him it took about 8 hours. The electrical is roughed in and needs finished, but that's easy to finish up with spare time here & there.

The riser was built with 2x10s and 3/4 plywood, assembled with screws with roofing felt underneath. Stuffed with 2 layers of R-13 and wired up with 4 electrical outlets for the power recliners and 2 step lights.





















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post #44 of 104 Old 12-24-2011, 07:48 PM
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looking really good, how deep is your riser, and what's the viewing distance of your second row? I've got a very similar room (just a bit taller, and 10'9" wide, 25' deep) so I'm running into some of the same space issues.

Also, after reading your thread, I've ordered the 106" accuscreen from Costco, dodged a bullet there by the sounds of it.
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post #45 of 104 Old 01-14-2012, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berg0 View Post

looking really good, how deep is your riser, and what's the viewing distance of your second row? I've got a very similar room (just a bit taller, and 10'9" wide, 25' deep) so I'm running into some of the same space issues.

Also, after reading your thread, I've ordered the 106" accuscreen from Costco, dodged a bullet there by the sounds of it.

2nd row viewing distance is 15.5 feet; riser height is 10". It gives just enough clearance for sightlines over my Palliser Pacifico chairs. I read your build thread and I didn't see a ceiling height discussed, but I have a major height issue (6' 9" ceiling). That means the bottom of the screen is lower which means the 2nd row sightline is a pain in the a$$. I planned extensively for the sightlines - I would HIGHLY recommend you get your seats and build up something temporary to test the 2nd row sightlines. I stacked wood 2x4 blocks and put one of the chairs on top until I got it high enough to see over the front to my liking.

Hopefully you got a quality screen - if I steered you a different direction than I'm glad I saved someone else the pain I felt.

Good luck, looks like you're well on your way!
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post #46 of 104 Old 01-29-2012, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Mostly using the theater lately versus building it!

I did accomplish building stands for the front and center speakers that will sit behind the screen wall. I have been spending time playing with the audio... I lined the walls with OC703 1"; and the back of the screen wall with 2". I also put up some poly batting above the OC on the walls. My goal is to dry run with the acoustics before I permanently install acoustic treatments. I spent today downloading and running the Room EQ Wizard software to try and find out how the room is performing sound wise. I'm not really able to understand what the graph means, but here it is. Does anyone have any feedback on this?

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post #47 of 104 Old 01-29-2012, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

I am interested in running curves on my room as well. What program and what microphone did you use?
Sorry but I can't help you decipher the graph you pulled. I am familiar with waterfall plots but normally the first sampling represents your direct frequency response then the samplings afterwards indicate which frequencies continue to "ring" after the initial impulse has passed.
Your graph starts dead flat then falls from there, which I don't understand.
Also, did you intentionaly limit the sampling to bass/midbass frequencies?
Pretty darn impressive (but ultimately unrealistic) if you are getting strong output at 10hz with your budget sub, even with room gain.
I'm hoping someone knowlegable chirps in because I'm interested in hearing the answer as well.
Good idea trialing different sound treatment positioning. Did you notice a huge improvement in sound from the reflective situation you had before? If you want to drive yourself crazy, add treatment and apply EQ to obtain a reasonably flat frequency response, then move the microphone a couple feet in any direction. Good luck.

It's called Room EQ Wizard, free, just google it. I am using a radio shack SPL meter, cost $50. I did not intentionally limit the sampling, I think there must be something wrong with the setup. I pulled all the OC703 off the walls and made no difference so something must be set wrong. Any suggestions appreciated.
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post #48 of 104 Old 02-04-2012, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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After much further research, I found several calibration issues. After running some new tests though, I still have some issues and questions.

I'm trying to interpret these graphs, however I'm confused that there doesn't seem to be much difference between treated and untreated. The treated measurements had OC703 laid against the wall for about 2/3 the length of the room, so about 48" high, and poly batting above that. The original plan was to use these two on the walls and cover with GOM fabric. The challenge I'm having is that there is not much difference in the REW measurements that I can see. But, when I take out the treatments there is audible echo in the room.

Relevant REW setup:

- RadioShack SPL meter
- Bohringer UCA202 USB Soundcard
- Calibrated card and mic, used Mic calibration file from this site

Questions I'm struggling with:
- I understand REW is best for sub frequencies, does the lack of differentiation at the high frequencies have any meaning then? Not sure if the use of the SPL meter influences that.

- Why am I not seeing much difference in high frequencies between the two if I can hear echo without the treatments but not with the treatment?

- Does anything appear overly out of whack indicating I may have a calibration issue?

- Waterfalls show a problem around 30 and 45 as far as I can tell, am I reading that right?

- SPLs show a problem around 110 without treatment - this was the only noticable difference I could see in the REW results between treated and non treated.

- I have a 7.1 speaker set up, and my Onkyo receiver has the soundcard right output feeding in. The Onkyo is set to all channel stereo, sound is only coming from the right side speakers. Is this OK?

- The SPL meter was pointed almost vertically, at about a 20-30 degree angle toward my front speakers. Is this OK?

Thanks for any feedback.

Untreated





Treated



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post #49 of 104 Old 02-05-2012, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responses David. I re-ran, this time going up to 20k. I can see improvement in the 200hz to 1.5khz range and around 6-7 khz, but not sure how significant it is. I will say that when I have the OC up to ear level and the poly batting above that, it definitely does not echo in the room. Without treatment it echos badly while talking, especially my 4 year old's voice (obviously a higher pitch). I watched most of Dances with Wolves extended edition Blu-Ray this afternoon, chosen because it has lots of dialog but also some loud scenes (buffalo herd, battles, etc.). It sounded pretty darn good with the treatments, with clearly audible subtle sounds like fires crackling, twigs breaking, crickets chirping, etc.

I've included a shot of the treated room for a visual of what I did. There is 1" OC on the walls with what is supposed to be 1" poly batting, however I doubled it over because I don't think it will match up to the OC when the fabric goes on unless it's doubled up. You can see a bit of the screen wall treatment, which is 2" OC.

Untreated Waterfall


Treated waterfall


1" OC on the walls


2" OC on the back walls (ran out of 1")
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post #50 of 104 Old 02-18-2012, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Bad news... Onkyo TX-SR707 AVR has been acting up; upon power on there has been no audio until I unplug and re-plug it in. A little research on the owner's thread here for this unit showed that a whole bunch of people have this problem right around 2 years of age when the warranty runs out. It starts out like mine has and is correctable with a reboot but progresses to totally dead. I am about 45 days past warranty expiration, but the credit card I bought it with offers a 1 year extension free, so guess I'll be checking into that
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post #51 of 104 Old 08-25-2012, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Back at it after 6 month hiatus...

I have finally resumed work on the theater after a long slow down... New baby in December which diverted focus to finishing the baby room, adjusting to new routines, etc. Also many travels - since March I've gone to Tampa, New Orleans twice, Florida for a beach trip, Canada for a break with the extended family, Chicago for a wedding, and New York City for work. Now I'm trying to get things moving as football season starts next week and Saturdays will be devoted to tailgating at the Horseshoe for my Buckeyes.

The project has also shifted to include finishing the area adjacent to the theater. The original plan called for this, but it was to come later... well, later happened and the wife wanted it done, so I've spent alot of time working on that rather than the theater. I've completed demo of existing panel wall and drop ceiling, done some fairly involved remedial electrical work, wired power and A/V connections for 55" LCD, and installed recessed lighting. I will be installing drywall today - nothing fancy just putting up one half inch layer.


Another big hold up has been issues with the main support beam of the house not being level. This was known when I bought it and I had it looked at closely by several people who knew what they were doing. It was considered fixable, and given the deal we got on the house worth the hassle. Over the course of 4 months, we slowly jacked up the house and put up support posts. We moved it up by a little over 1". Since the wife wanted the living room side done and that required dry wall, getting this leveling done was a must have before putting up drywall. Didn't want to install it then create gaps and cracks everywhere. The upstairs floors are now noticeably more level, but I have had several cracks appear in the walls upstairs, some tiles in the kitchen have come loose, and a few doors no longer will close. Will save fixing that for later frown.gif

Once the drywall is up in the living room side, we'll be ready for cabinets to go in the back of the theater, which are on order along with a granite counter top. We went with KraftMaid Montclair Maple in Onyx black, which should match my Ceilume Stratford black ceiling tiles nicely. The carpet, Shaw "At the Beach" in manor gray is picked out and scheduled to install right after the cabinets.

Hopefully today will be a banner day for drywall installation! Will post an update on how it goes!



Here is the room before & current and some pics of the stuff that's going to go in it...



Current status with lighting installed and ready for drywall after I get the HVAC line out of the way this morning



The floor jack up project:





Carpet:


Cabinet doors:
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post #52 of 104 Old 08-25-2012, 08:44 AM
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Enjoyed reading your thread and cannot wait to see the finished results!! cool.gif

Good luck and congratulations on your newborn. I had a few of those wink.gif

HT: PJ: ?? , Screen: ??,B&W 684s, 685s, HTM62 / DIY SI 18" / port tuned- 17hz
Onkyo 809, iNuke DSP1000, Oppo 103 , PS4, HTPC- Lenovo q190.
| Media Room: Yamaha RX-A 820, PS3, Vizio 55 (M-Series) with in-wall Polk Audio RC series (5-channel), Sub1200 (dual) w/ DirectTV & PS3 / PLEX | Family Room: LED: Sharp 70" -Smart, DTV Client, PS3, Mirage MX 5.1 / HK Audio.
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post #53 of 104 Old 08-28-2012, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Hung drywall all weekend, haven't started taping & mudding yet - this will be the absolute most miserable part of the entire build. Dust in your eyes, nose, mouth, all over everything. Might get a start this week, goal will be to get at least 2 coats on during the long weekend. Saturday will be tailgating and Buckeye football so need to get it all done Sunday & Labor Day Monday.

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post #54 of 104 Old 08-29-2012, 04:09 PM
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Wow bud I actually beat you. Sounds like you have been very busy on the home front. I will post some ics tonight hopefully.

Jon
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post #55 of 104 Old 09-25-2012, 08:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to some outstanding help from my brother, things have started to move quickly since the drywall went up on the family room side. Finished sanding last week and painting went through this past weekend, which got me to the point of being ready to install the base cabinets for the back of the theater side. Those went in on Sunday thanks to my Dad, which got me ready for carpet that was installed yesterday and today. Also put in the can light trim tonight. I am very happy with how it is coming together overall, but have a number of issues to resolve in the finish work:

1. Several spots I need to touch up on the walls
2. Need to straighten out some of the electrical outlets that are crooked
3. The cabinets had drawers and doors with dings on them, KitchenCraft customer service was great and are shipping me out replacements ASAP
4. The EdgeStar under counter fridge I bought seems to cycle on & off ALOT. Not sure if it's burning in, but will give it 24 hrs of run time before getting too worried.
5. Drywall dust is everywhere and needs constantly cleaned up. It doesn't like the black cabinets and ceiling tiles at all.

Next major steps:
1. Move theater seats back in and re-install projector and screen
2. Paint speaker stands for front/center speakers
3. Finalize color of GOM for walls. Considering Anchorage greys, but can't quite make up my mind.
4. Family room furniture arrives next Wednesday - couch, chair and table. Praying the wife likes the colors she special ordered including the RED couch (crossing my fingers).
5. Build prototype acoustic panel to cover theater side walls
6. Pick out granite slab for counter top which will be installed in 3-4 weeks.

Overall, I should be operational again for the Ohio State/Michigan State game this weekend, with nice plush carpet under my feet now and the hardest part of the build behind me smile.gif

Family room side carpeting and finished walls


Riser carpeting being enjoyed by the boys. The paneling in the background will all be covered by acoustic panels.


View looking from front of theater side to back showing riser, cabinets and beverage fridge. Again, unfinished drywall will be covered by acoustic panels. I took the drywall on around behind the cabinets to future proof due to the granite counter top. If I ever want to complete the drywall job, I can go on around the room but didn't want to have to worry about retrofitting behind the cabinets/granite if that ever happens.
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post #56 of 104 Old 09-30-2012, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Chairs, projector and screen back up.... starting to look really good now.

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post #57 of 104 Old 10-06-2012, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Furniture arrived this week! We're pretty happy with it, the chaise/coffee table was not the exact color we thought but it will work. Also my GOM arrived - FR701 for screen wall and Anchorage Asteroid for walls.

I also put built the first acoustic panel this morning. It took about 1.5 hrs to get it measured, cut, biscuits jointed, and glued. It will probably be another 30 mins for fabric wrap to get to 2 hours. I have a total of 12 to build so it is going to take me at least a few weeks to get all of them done if not longer.

Counter top for bar gets installed Monday, and I need to get the LCD mounted in the family room. Other than that, it's mostly minor touch up stuff that will probably go on forever.

Here are some pics:

Family room (looking in from theater)


Family room (looking in from near bottom of stairs, looking towards theater)


Close up of bar fridge (little dirty, need to clean)


GOM (FR701 and Anchorage Asteroid)


Screen Wall Panel Frame
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post #58 of 104 Old 10-06-2012, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by kelton325 View Post

I have a total of 12 to build....

Rub it in, buddy. That's ok, I can take it.
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post #59 of 104 Old 10-06-2012, 09:32 AM
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that lutron dimmer is perfect for HT. I was impressed with its capability and price.
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post #60 of 104 Old 10-14-2012, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Got 3 big things done this week and things are really shaping up.

Granite counter top went in on Monday and turned out great. I was worried since they had to cut the slab to get it down into my basement, but the seam is invisible unless you are trying to find it, and even then you really have to try hard. Very happy with how the bar area is turning out. I have to get the hardware installed, and since a few practice mounts went awry, I'm putting this task off.

Mounted the LCD TV in the living room side using a VideoSecure Tilt mount, it was easy to use and I'm happy with it.

Finished the first acoustic panel installed to the right of the screen. Fabric wrapping was pretty easy, glad I borrowed electric stapler it makes the job infinitely easier. I am very very happy with how it looks - even with just one side done it makes a huge difference by blocking out light around the screen and hiding the speakers/mess behind it that I've been looking at for a year now.

The primary remaining activity is to finish the acoustic panels - that is going to take alot of dedicated time to build the remaining 11 or so. Several are going to be complicated as they have electrical outlets or other special factors that need worked around, so they're not just simple rectangles.







This picture doesn't do it justice - the lights aren't bright. That white mark must be on the camera lens as it's not on the panel at all.
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