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post #451 of 767 Old 12-31-2012, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally finished the last of the drywall in the wine cellar/concession area/panic/ex-equipment/kids dungeon room. Took longer than I thought. These are not the same shots. I also had a HVAC guy out today, should have an estimate by Wed.



I know I am blessed now, here is what I saw on my step stool in drywall dust. Thankfully I went to Xmas mass this year.



I think it looks more like Pete Townsend than the Big Guy. For you that can't see it, it's been nice knowing you. smile.gif

Happy New Year!


Bud
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post #452 of 767 Old 12-31-2012, 05:15 PM
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ChinaDog,

So we went to see the "WHO" in November and I agree with your interpretation of that image :-)

Happy New Year!!!

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post #453 of 767 Old 01-01-2013, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I hope great things come to you and yours in 2013. I think it's going to be a great year.

Spent about 4 hours or so mudding and taping the freshly drywalled room, I got most of the seams and corners first coat done, except for the ceiling corners. I tried something different this time. I used the dry joint compound, with 45 minute set time. Boy, I had to move fast. I don't have a paddle on my drill either to mix it. I would use a little, mix it, make it too dry, add more ater, too wet, add more compound. It dried quick, sure, but I was doing the whole room so there was no way I was going to get to a second coat anyway. Not sure what I was thinking. One or twice I go dry while I was using it and I just had to throw it out, luckily it was much. I'll stick to the blue bucket from now on unless I need to d a smaller job and multiple coats in a day.Anyway, no pictures today and I won't get back to the room until the weekend after hext. I think it'll be dry by then.

Bud
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post #454 of 767 Old 01-01-2013, 12:07 PM
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post #455 of 767 Old 01-01-2013, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Happy new year Bud!

Thanks Brad, Happy New year to you. Hope all is well.

Bud
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post #456 of 767 Old 01-02-2013, 07:58 AM
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Hey Bud! Happy New Year! I see you are finally underway and I'm looking forward to seeing your progress. I really like how that patio turned out and see my old lift is finally coming in handy again! cool.gif

What's the plan for the concession room?

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post #457 of 767 Old 01-03-2013, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Jason, Happy New Year to you!

I'm going to basically dress it up some. I plan on doing brick veneer on one or two walls (depending on how good I am at it), wood floors and a tin ceiling as well. I plan on putting wine racks on the far end, a small counter in and maybe a bistro table and chairs. On the other side I'll build out some shelves for candy and stuff for the kids. Not sure if I'll do movie storage in there or not at this point.

The drywall lift was a life saver, as you well aware know. Once I get the HVAC done in the HT room, I'll be putting it to good use again.

Bud
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post #458 of 767 Old 01-07-2013, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Couple of quick updates. First, inline fan and attic fan switch arrived. Still waiting on ductwork. Second, have now had three HVAC companies come out to price out the separate zone required for Dennis' specs. First guy talked about his pet raccoon for half an hour and I never head back from him. Second guy came last week, said he was going to work on the estimate New Years Day (if it rained - and it did) and that I would have something from him on Wed. Nothing so far. Third guy came this morning, seemed much more professional - was the owner of the company and supposed will have something back to me soon. What I learned was everyone wants to use ductless mini-splts. Second, they don't have a lot of good words for the company that installed the existing HVAC system (I'm not impressed either). Third, apparently our 2 ton unit for the basement will likely not have enough capacity, don't know yet. I'm expecting lots of dollar signs.

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post #459 of 767 Old 01-07-2013, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinadog View Post

Third, apparently our 2 ton unit for the basement will likely not have enough capacity, don't know yet. I'm expecting lots of dollar signs. Bud

Technically speaking, the only additional square footage of finished space you are adding from previous is in your cold room. I would think the small size of this room would fall well within any engineered "overdesign" factor. I don't know how big your basement is, but mine is 1605 square feet and has just 1.5 tons of cooling. I am in the same latitude as you and I have to say I can easily freeze myself out of the basement with no problems whatsoever if I turned the thermostat down. Sounds like you might be getting some bad information . . . or information designed to get you into a new system.

I have to agree that if it starts to get too complicated to zone and add motorized dampers to supplies and returns for your existing system then a ducted mini-split is definitely the way to go for complete separate control of your comfort in the theater space. Just my two cents.

By the way, I hadn't seen your patio pictures until this morning - VERY nice!!! Just an incredible back yard living space with a very creative and well-executed design - congrats!
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post #460 of 767 Old 01-07-2013, 08:46 AM
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Bud,

Interesting in that 2 of 3 of the HVAC suppliers have not responded. Amazing in that you were looking for something only "slightly out of the norm" and those 2 lost interest.
That tells me that you are probably better off without those two characters...
When I was at this phase with my basement, I had a good friend who happens to be an HVAC contractor come and take a look.

His comments were;

Option #1
"I would suggest that instead of a complete 2nd zone that you do this >>> you add a return here, and another here, and then add two smaller supply runs; one here, and another here, etc.. I think you will be surprised how well your original HVAC plant can handle it"


Option #2
If the above does not work well enough then he would be recommending the "next most economical" plan - going with a mini-split.

FWIW, my original setup had 3000 sq' above grade, and I was finishing another 1100 sq ft of space below grade
The builder's original HVAC layout had only ONE supply vent in my unfinished basement and NO returns.
In the end my basement totaled 2 returns and 3 supplies >> it has been working great for over 3 years with the added vent work (while still utilizing the original single zone layout and original furnace/AC hardware).

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post #461 of 767 Old 01-07-2013, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Technically speaking, the only additional square footage of finished space you are adding from previous is in your cold room. I would think the small size of this room would fall well within any engineered "overdesign" factor. I don't know how big your basement is, but mine is 1605 square feet and has just 1.5 tons of cooling. I am in the same latitude as you and I have to say I can easily freeze myself out of the basement with no problems whatsoever if I turned the thermostat down. Sounds like you might be getting some bad information . . . or information designed to get you into a new system.
I have to agree that if it starts to get too complicated to zone and add motorized dampers to supplies and returns for your existing system then a ducted mini-split is definitely the way to go for complete separate control of your comfort in the theater space. Just my two cents.
By the way, I hadn't seen your patio pictures until this morning - VERY nice!!! Just an incredible back yard living space with a very creative and well-executed design - congrats!

The patio came out nice. I have to seal everything in the spring and add a few more plants, but its been a great add. Have used that firepit so many times already.

Technically I'm not even adding the cold room since I can't get through to run anything. I'm finishing it out, but it won't be conditioned. I already have two supplies in teh theater room, just no returns and obviously no control for dampers. Dennis has specific requirements and I'm trying to abide by those as much as possible. The guy today said the two ton unit may be indeed the correct size, but he would have to double check with one of his guys. The want to add the dampers on the trunk side and there may be some issues running new ductwork through the trusses to get to the HT room, but have a way to resolve that. I think I have about 2200 square feet, not all finished, so may 1500. Dunno.

Bud
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post #462 of 767 Old 01-07-2013, 04:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Bud,
Interesting in that 2 of 3 of the HVAC suppliers have not responded. Amazing in that you were looking for something only "slightly out of the norm" and those 2 lost interest.
That tells me that you are probably better off without those two characters...
When I was at this phase with my basement, I had a good friend who happens to be an HVAC contractor come and take a look.
His comments were;
Option #1
"I would suggest that instead of a complete 2nd zone that you do this >>> you add a return here, and another here, and then add two smaller supply runs; one here, and another here, etc.. I think you will be surprised how well your original HVAC plant can handle it"

Option #2
If the above does not work well enough then he would be recommending the "next most economical" plan - going with a mini-split.
FWIW, my original setup had 3000 sq' above grade, and I was finishing another 1100 sq ft of space below grade
The builder's original HVAC layout had only ONE supply vent in my unfinished basement and NO returns.
In the end my basement totaled 2 returns and 3 supplies >> it has been working great for over 3 years with the added vent work (while still utilizing the original single zone layout and original furnace/AC hardware).

I'm better off not chasing the first two. They had their shot. I prefer if this is over their head they would just say so, but oh well.

The guy that came today already left a message, asking to return with his engineer and his site manager and Friday morning. We'll see what happens then. I agree thought (and with Tom) that I'm already supplying the room and may need to increase the duct size, add some returns and put some dampers in, but I'm no HVAC guy. I just want to end up dropping 3-5K on upgrading an existing HVAC system or going overboard. Heck, worst case is I freeze out the rest of the basement (most of the time its me anyway) to keep the HT room cool. I'd rather do it correct obviously, within reason, as long as I'm not spend more on HVAC than I really have to.

Stay tuned.

Bud
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post #463 of 767 Old 01-11-2013, 05:21 AM
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His 'engineer'? How often do HVAC contractors hire an engineer? Maybe you should consult a local engineer directly, and go with an installer rec from the engineer.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

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post #464 of 767 Old 01-11-2013, 06:55 AM
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His 'engineer'? How often do HVAC contractors hire an engineer? Maybe you should consult a local engineer directly, and go with an installer rec from the engineer.

Any HVAC company worth their weight will have an HVAC engineer on staff to get the size of the unit and ducts dead-on accurate as there is danger in either under-sizing or over-sizing anything in HVAC. I personally like the fact that they are sending out their engineer....it just shows they are going to engineer the system to make sure there are no surprises and everything functions exactly as expected. The engineer will not only take into account the size of the space and the lighting heat loads but the highly-specialized considerations needed for a home theater since it is virtually airtight, highly insulated and holds more than normal numbers of people for such a small space. Having the system professionally engineered is time very well-spent in my opinion.
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post #465 of 767 Old 01-12-2013, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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The HVAC guys came out yesterday morning, spent about an hour looking at various options, running new returns, supplies, etc. Older guys, been doing this for a while. They actually took measurements of the whole basement to verify the unit was sufficient for the basement, which as far as I could tell, they thought it was. They were going to go back and come up with an option or two, would be a week or so probably (I told them no rush - probably actually would not have that work done until March 1). We'll see what they come up with. Based on what they were talking about, sounds to me like a split system with electronic dampers will be just fine with the existing system, they may have to add a separate return. I'll likely have to build them a soffit in what I'm calling my exercise room, which is no big deal. I volunteered that if they could not get the extra ducts through the trusses (it was pretty full coming from the the mechanical room to the theater room through the exercise room). The Supply and return for the theater room would come in from the upper right corner of the front wall (versus the ceiling) behind the false wall. Since I'll have a soffit going around the perimeter of the room, they can run the ductwork through that. I don't know if the corner penetration will be an issue or not from Dennis' standpoint (sound leakage or acoustic issues).

Bud
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post #466 of 767 Old 01-12-2013, 08:52 AM
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I don't think having supplies or returns behind the false wall is recommended as it turns your AT screen into a giant air filter.

The Austin Home Theater:
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post #467 of 767 Old 01-12-2013, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Not what I meant. wink.gif

I meant that the ductwork comes through from the mechanical room behind the false wall in that corner. The two supplies will be in the soffit in front of the false wall on the theater side and the two returns will be in the soffit in the back of the room.

Bud
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post #468 of 767 Old 01-12-2013, 10:08 AM
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Ah, ok. That makes sense. Sounds like a good plan. smile.gif

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post #469 of 767 Old 01-13-2013, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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A little more mud progress today in the panic room (until the knees gave out). Going to watch some football. Probably the last time I'll post pictures of this room until I start finishing it out. I'll spare you the mud from here. smile.gif



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post #470 of 767 Old 01-20-2013, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Had a minor leak in the basement! I went down yesterday to do some work and had to grab a tool, saw this:


and discovered a small pinhole in the elbow for the hot water circulator:


I just called a plumber and he came out and fixed it in no time flat (I don't do plumbing really, just PVC stuff and don't have the tools. Need to change that).

More mud yesterday - panic and equipment closet. I have to wrap all the PVC today that goes through the theater room (its noisy) and run the ductwork for the inline fan for the equipment closet.

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post #471 of 767 Old 01-20-2013, 07:43 AM
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Bud, glad the water issue was minor. I love following your progress, although I am very silent. However, I have to ask, why are your pics so small and not zoomable?
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post #472 of 767 Old 01-20-2013, 07:52 AM
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Do you have well water or city water? Very odd for a pinhole to develop in the middle of a fitting. Could there been an issue with your water?

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post #473 of 767 Old 01-20-2013, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Bud, glad the water issue was minor. I love following your progress, although I am very silent. However, I have to ask, why are your pics so small and not zoomable?

Doug,

When I attach them, I make the preview small, but you should be able to click on them and they become larger. Is that not the case?

Bud
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post #474 of 767 Old 01-20-2013, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you have well water or city water? Very odd for a pinhole to develop in the middle of a fitting. Could there been an issue with your water?

Tim

Tim -

City water. Thought that was odd as well, its the only issue we've had in the house. I really don't think there is a water issue (pressure seems fine). No idea.

Bud
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post #475 of 767 Old 01-20-2013, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Just got back from Lowes, picked up my 4" duct connector and zip ties. Time to head down and get some work done.

Bud
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post #476 of 767 Old 01-21-2013, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, got most of 4" duct form the equipment closet ran. Need to still run electric to the temp switch. I also wrapped the PVC in the ceiling of the HT room with linacoustic, that was a chore. More mud as well, both yesterday and today. Anyone ever work with rounded corners before? In order to be consistent, I used round corners for the equipment closet and the doo in the panic room and what a pain in the butt they are. Still need one more minor coat, but boy, what a pain in the butt the are. I used the plastic ones, after watching this video, I'd go with the metal ones with the paper.


Bud
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post #477 of 767 Old 01-21-2013, 12:37 PM
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I used the roundover bead in my theater. I didn't think it was too bad. I drew plumb lines before I applied it. Spray glue and finished with some diverging staples.

The tricky part will be the baseboard/crown smile.gif

Tim
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post #478 of 767 Old 01-21-2013, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I used the roundover bead in my theater. I didn't think it was too bad. I drew plumb lines before I applied it. Spray glue and finished with some diverging staples.

The tricky part will be the baseboard/crown smile.gif

Tim

I thought to use spray adhesive, then figured the mud would hold it. Did you use the metal round over or the plastic? I ended up mudding, then using a million drywall screws, which seemed to make it worse. Plumb, lines? Really? Ugh.

I hear you on the crown and base moldings. Looking forward to that. smile.gif

Bud
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post #479 of 767 Old 01-21-2013, 02:09 PM
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You can use mud to hold it.. But you really need to mix the proper mud or put the additive (superbond) in the regular mud to make it more adhesive. Mudding bead on is really an advanced technique. I never had good luck with it so I either use glue or a crimper.

I used plastic bead with 3m adhesive. I have a diverging staple gun, so I followed up with that.

Tim
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post #480 of 767 Old 01-28-2013, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quick update - pretty much finished out the exterior of the rack closet including my fun, rounded outside corner. I started to put the crown back up until I ran out of it - I used what I pulled down originally. Thank goodness for caulk. Rounded corners and crown is an adventure, but not too bad. I also ran out of mud. Next steps is a Big Orange run to pick up the remain pieces of crown and base molding, mud, primer and get the interior of the closet done. I'd like to wrap up the outside of the theater so I can pain and look like I've actually accomplished something. I want to put up some plastic to also contain the dust in the room itself.



I also plan on picking up some T&G boards for the ceiling in the panic room, I originally was going to go with a tin ceiling, but decided to go more rustic with a wood ceiling and add a few faux timbers in there as well. That room needs to be primed now, then I can paint and do the ceiling to get that out of the way until my HVAC is done. I have NOT heard from the last guys (with the site engineer and manager) yet, plan on calling them today.

I did wrap my PVC ducts in the room to contain the noise and ran 25 feet of the 4:duct form the closet. Need another 4"connector for the remaining section, will pick that up as well. Need some putty pads, too.

Bud
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