The Once and Future Theater - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1195 Old 06-07-2013, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure about a thread. I don't imagine there's much I can add as a thread-host, but if by the time I get all the pieces together for assembly and some time to work there isn't one for this kit already, then I probably will. I'll post about it here in either case.

A couple weeks ago, FedEx brought me a used iPhone shipped from a friend. My coworker watched the guy drop it while talking on his own cell phone and climbing out of the truck. I signed for it. As the guy walks away, Eddie turns to me and says, "that's not anything fragile is it?" Luckily my friend doesn't mess around when packing electronics for shipping.
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post #542 of 1195 Old 06-07-2013, 03:17 PM
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Yeah. I'm always relieved to open a shipping box to find another box safely suspended in something soft and cushiony. As tough as iPhones are, it's amazing how easily they will break. We got new phones last November because my wife's got broken. Over the course of two years, that phone had been dropped, kicked, submerged, and all but set on fire with no issues that a night in a bag of rice didn't cure. One day she dropped it just right, from maybe a foot high, and the thing just shattered. The only reason the glass was still attached was because the plastic film we put on there was holding it together. I've been a lot more careful with mine since then smile.gif

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #543 of 1195 Old 06-07-2013, 06:03 PM
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You all know my luck with deliveries. I'm legendary with the local USPS now.

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post #544 of 1195 Old 06-07-2013, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Tim, is your portrait hanging in the office down there? wink.gif
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post #545 of 1195 Old 06-08-2013, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

Tim, is your portrait hanging in the office down there? wink.gif

Not sure, I'll have to ask smile.gif I was thanked for doing it (I think we were a few seconds away from a high five). They're a pretty proud bunch over there.

Tim
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post #546 of 1195 Old 06-08-2013, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

Something more like this: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Dale/RH0251K500FE02/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtbXrIkmrvidDNaDpN5VXc5Kp6V9NpWDEA%3d

There was a Lutron TB on using the resistor to create a synthetic load for lighting. I just searched and can't find it (rest assured, it did exist), but I found this which addresses the same issue: http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/scrnint.pdf

Tim

Thanks Tim. Can something like this tolerate dimming the load, just like an incandescent bulb. I ran through the website and datasheet, but didn't see anything I recognized that would indicated it could or couldn't. So if my fixture is 7 watts and this is 25 watts, that gives me 32 watts. However, if I dim the zone from its maximum potential, will this still get me into trouble of going below 25 watts actually being used on the zone?

And when you surface-mount these things in a metal box, do you use a standard single gang box or do you step it up to a 4" ceiling light box for additional space / cooling? Can this actually be mounted in the box or is it better hanging in free space within the box?

Sorry for hijacking the thread for one post, Fred!
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post #547 of 1195 Old 06-09-2013, 06:07 AM
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At 120v it actually dissipates 12.5w. It will handle a surge up to 240v.

Yes, it's dimmable; the wattage dissipated will vary based on the voltage the GE gives it. This is similar to the way an incandescent bulb works.

I would use a 4x4x1.75" metal box, and would mount the resistor to the box. I think you would benefit from the heatsinking when the resistor is coupled to the box.

Tim
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post #548 of 1195 Old 06-09-2013, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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One afternoon of finishing drywall.



I'm leaving the ceiling for last so that I can make sure my technique is adequate. So far, I don't hate it.

I have been using sheetrock brand easy sand 90 lightweight setting-type joint compound. The package says you get an hour of working time, and that's about right. Working with a 4 inch knife, I can set about half of an 18 pound bag within that hour. The corners and ceiling work are going a little slower, so I'll only mix up about 1/3 of a bag when I do my final coats.
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post #549 of 1195 Old 06-09-2013, 08:14 PM
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Keep on plugging, bud! You're making good progress. Drywall is one of those things that I just resign myself to adding two more coats than I planned. smile.gif

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #550 of 1195 Old 06-10-2013, 04:57 AM
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You are braver than I. Mud/tape was the one thing I hired out. I know my limits wink.gif
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post #551 of 1195 Old 06-10-2013, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't know my limits. I'm sure they're the same as everyone else's, but I don't feel satisfied until I bump up against them.

Call that brave if you want, others may call it stupid. smile.gif
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post #552 of 1195 Old 06-20-2013, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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1FFFDC35-FE89-46FB-AB34-212C2C99C4DB-8010-000007B75F10F685_zps3556b005.jpg

7B90CFF3-23DC-4205-95F4-EB5220479318-8010-000007B749A0880F_zpse6ab00e1.jpg

Now I'm just waiting on the back ordered xo parts. Time to start building cabinets!
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post #553 of 1195 Old 06-21-2013, 07:24 AM
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I missed this yesterday! Looks sekzy! I like it.

Do you have an estimate on when the XO parts will be available?

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #554 of 1195 Old 06-21-2013, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I just got off the phone with parts express. The nice lady says the parts are due back in inventory on the 28th. I should see them here in the first few days of July.
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post #555 of 1195 Old 06-21-2013, 09:50 AM
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I'm anxious to hear your impressions of these things!

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #556 of 1195 Old 06-21-2013, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm anxious to hear these things.
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post #557 of 1195 Old 06-21-2013, 06:33 PM
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XO inductors are backordered for my speakers too.. Which parts are backordered for you? You can substitute a lot of them (caps, resistors). The inductor value I need is only available in one brand so I gotta wait.

You being the audio theory guru, I imagine a mic is on your short list?

Tim
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post #558 of 1195 Old 06-21-2013, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm sure there are other good sources for the back ordered parts, but I'm just going to wait. It's two resisters and an inductor, I think. (Checked, yeah, 0.05mH air core from Jantzen, plus a 3 and a 5 Ohm resister - I think I posted the shipping invoice a page or two ago.) I won't be ready for the before they arrive, and I've already paid for them. I'm not interested in the hassle of finding others and the refunds and all.

I have a cross-spectrum calibrated ECM8000. I see that cross spectrum is no longer selling them, due to sited quality control issues. My calibration file looks pretty flat and I haven't had any problems, but I really have only had it out two or three times to make sure I could figure out how to set up REW. I'll probably post a separate calibration and setup thread, once I get some noise-makers in the box, ya dig?

Since I've got an experienced speaker builder reading along, let me ask you - or please anyone else with an opinion - how would you build the cabs with only a table saw, glue, and clamps? I was thinking I would build the sides and top with braces and then apply the baffle and back. something like this, but with braces. Would braces be adequate to ensure the cabinet is square?


Edit: and don't think I failed to notice your calling me an audio theory guru. I assure you I am only a wannabe, but your compliment and vote of confidence are appreciated.
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post #559 of 1195 Old 06-22-2013, 04:32 AM
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I would build it like you drew it-- on the rear I would recess the rear panel (eg it sits inside the side pieces) and on the front I would do a double baffle (one baffle inside the side pieces and the other baffle on top).

Having the panels inside will keep everything square and also put the glue in shear rather than tension. It also looks nicer biggrin.gif

Is the cab for the SEOS', or is there something else?

Tim
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post #560 of 1195 Old 06-22-2013, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig72 View Post

You are braver than I. Mud/tape was the one thing I hired out. I know my limits wink.gif

Same here. Only had 2 trades persons helping, and mudding was for one of them. Considering it's what will be shown the most to someone walking in, it was worth it for me. 2 days by 2 pro's as opposed to a few weeks or more ... happy with the investment.

In your case Fred I'd be interested to hear how you found it after you complete it. Good luck to you.
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post #561 of 1195 Old 06-22-2013, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Tim, right now I'm just building 3 SEOS cabs. Depending on how this goes, I hope to build some more elaborately shaped surrounds, hopefully also sealed SEOS designs.

I was sanding joint compound last night, (isn't that how everyone spends Friday night?) and while the walls aren't perfect, they'll do. I'm glad I decided not to use any joint tape in the ceiling, since most of the problems in the walls are related to bubbles under the tape. I'll sand my first layer of ceiling compound this weekend and hopefully get a second layer up.
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post #562 of 1195 Old 06-22-2013, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Back in the basement tonight, I got a little light sanding done on the ceiling, in preparation for a second coat of joint compound.

I've also been working on making sure I've got everything in order to build my Cheap Thrill cabinets. A new table saw blade and some wood glue should get me there, once I get some MDF cut down. I'm going to just copy what I posted over at diysoundgroup so that it will be here for my reference and in the interest of both having a complete record here as well as soliciting any feedback you all may have.

This may not be very useful to a lot of people, but I think it will get someone started to at least see how I've laid this out. If anyone sees any problems coming, please don't hesitate to speak up. This is my first build since cub scouts (pinewood derby anyone?). I don't have a lot of sophisticated tools or a truck to carry full sheets of MDF, so I've tried to simplify this process. I have 4 30" clamps, a table saw, a circular saw and assorted hand tools, but no router or anything fancy like a band saw or even a jig saw.

I started with thinking through what the process will be like. I read a few threads around here and there, and decided that I would try to assemble the top, bottom, and sides, with the braces to help hold them square. Then I would come back and secure the baffle and back. Using butt joints only, here's a basic (not to scale and without braces) image of the way the top, bottom, and sides should fit together.


Based on those joints and the description of the cabinet dimensions (17.25 wide, 26 tall, and 16 deep) I figured the dimensions of each piece. That lead me to this list:
  • Baffle/Back 17.25 x 26 x .75
  • Top/Bottom 17.25 x 14.5 x .75
  • Sides (x2) 14.5 x 24.5 x .75

I'm building three, and of course the baffles come from Erich, so I need three backs, 6 sides, and 6 top/bottom pieces. I laid them out in sketchup to make them fit together in a cut sheet. I'm sure this is not the most efficient use of materials, but it will work for me very well. I've built in a little slack to account for the kerf. Did you know that MDF is sold in sheets 49 inches wide by 97 inches long? I had no idea.

Here's the key for the labels in the cut sheets:
Backs - A, B, C
Sides - D, E, F, H, I, J
Top/Bottom - K, L, M, N, O, P




The braces are not labelled, but there are enough for two horizontal and one vertical in each cabinet. I'm not sure about the profile of the braces, but I think what I've drawn here will work. I wasn't sure how deep they would need to be - the way I've got them planned, they will all lay against the back and reach toward the baffle 9 inches - should they be deeper? I'm not sure how I'll make the cuts, but I'm not concerned about winning any beauty contests. If there is a better way to design the braces, I'd love to hear some tips.

You'll notice that I've marked several cuts just to break down the sheet into small enough sizes to fit in my VW. I'll have the guy at Lowe's do that. There's enough excess in the pieces that a half inch or more won't be a problem.
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post #563 of 1195 Old 06-23-2013, 05:07 AM
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Plywood is stiffer than MDF and is also a good choice for the cabinet. It's also lighter smile.gif

You can also use the free Cut List software to layout your cuts, although I don't know if there's a "Cut for VW" option biggrin.gif

I would make the cab 3/4" deeper and back up Erich's baffle with another piece of 3/4, but that's just me.

Tim

ps- 4 more clamps will make your life infinitely easier. You can pick up a few 18" F-type clamps for $15/ea
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post #564 of 1195 Old 06-23-2013, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I asked for help, and then I ignore it. That'll teach you.

I went with the MDF, and I have no current plans for a double baffle. I did pick up a couple more clamps, however.



Also, I was informed that the baffle is actually a 1/4 inch bigger than the advertised final dimensions. If that's so, I'll have an 1/8 excess all the way around, and need a router. If that turns out to be what I need, I'll find a way to borrow one or something.
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post #565 of 1195 Old 06-23-2013, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I haven't quite finished all my cuts - I still have the vertical braces to cut, and then all the braces to shape. But um... these things are big. smile.gif



I'm very impressed with my own ability to get these things cut. My first attempts with the table saw a few months ago were lacking. I think maybe the larger sheets I was using (OSB) were just too large for the small table I've got, even with two set of hands. Today, all the cuts look great. The 60 tooth blade I got is making cuts as nice as the factory edge on the MDF. The repeatability of the cuts is surprisingly good, though the tip to cut all the same dimension cuts at once is a good one - not always possible, but helpful.

It might be a couple more days before I can get the braces finished and the cabinets glued, but I'm very excited by my progress on this. Now maybe I can go back down and get to that joint com[pound (not likely).
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post #566 of 1195 Old 06-23-2013, 06:29 PM
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Lookin' good, Fred. What kind of glue and fasteners are you using?

From your invoice I see you're doing three of these. Any plans for the remaining 4 (6? 8?) speakers? Just testing the waters??

Tim
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post #567 of 1195 Old 06-23-2013, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm hoping to get away with no fasteners - glue only. I bought a bottle of titebond (original, red label) today. I think with a few clamps (I have 6 or more now) and the nice cuts I got today, I should be good. But obviously, I don't know. I was figuring that I could come back with something expanding or some caulk of some kind if I have trouble getting a completely set seam. I have the brad nailer that came with my compressor (cheap, but probably adequate), but haven't used it (it's actually loaned out to my brother-in-law).

For now I'm just testing the waters, but tentatively looking towards some other SEOS designs to adapt to surrounds. I like the idea of building a cabinet that will nestle under a soffit. Maybe match the soffit depth, and angle downward toward the seats to keep everyone in the primary listening zone. Since I don't even know my final soffit depth or height at the moment, I'm leaving those plans open, strictly speaking. Further, I'm thinking about the (probably over-blown) idea that sealed designs integrate better with other sealed designs. I've always like the idea of sealed subs, so I've chosen sealed mains and I'll be looking for sealed surrounds. I don't know - it doesn't look like there are any smallish sealed designs suitable to an 80Hz crossover. I'm sure I'll have to compromise either on the ports, the sensitivity, the size, or the crossover. I don't think the size can really give much in my 12 ft wide room though. Java built prototypes of the fusion-10 max in a sealed cabinet only .75 cuft. They may give up a little extension, but looks like a good candidate otherwise. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1437288/seos-surround-build With the Fusion-10 Max, I can keep them a little (a lot) smaller and not give up any sensitivity. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1437288/seos-surround-build/150#post_23413592

I was hopeful that J_P_A would get meaningful feedback in his thread about SEOS recommendations. The idea of what directivity control would be best for arrayed surrounds came up (I think I brought it up), but not much came of it, in general. Having thought about it, I think SEOS is a good match for arrays of surrounds (are you reading this J_P_A?). The fairly narrow dispersion with a sharp cutoff should make the decorrelation efforts easier, but I'm not sure. That's the long way of saying that I'm going to build for 7.4 (maybe only 7.2) right now, but probably wire for extra side surrounds. If I'm careful about mounting, I can get way with moving the sides and adding a pair if and when I move to separates and can incorporate some outboard processing to get the decorrelation that I would need.

Edit - hey that's my 1500th post. Let's have a party - who's buying?
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post #568 of 1195 Old 06-23-2013, 08:10 PM
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Yep, I'm reading! I'd love to get some feedback on side array speaker selection. Unfortunately, that and riser bass trap designs are two subjects I don't see a lot of definitive info getting posted about.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

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post #569 of 1195 Old 06-23-2013, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Unfortunately, that and riser bass trap designs are two subjects I don't see a lot of definitive info getting posted about.
Smoke and mirrors!

(I don't mean that the correct use of those designs is impossible or that they aren't important or don't work, just that the conversations about them are privileged or something. These are not the designs you are looking for. You can go about your business. Move along.)
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post #570 of 1195 Old 06-24-2013, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

Smoke and mirrors!

(I don't mean that the correct use of those designs is impossible or that they aren't important or don't work, just that the conversations about them are privileged or something. These are not the designs you are looking for. You can go about your business. Move along.)

There's an article on it here. Dennis also did an article for Home Theater Mag "Tech Talk" section on the subject. You can see that article here.

Tim
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