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post #631 of 1177 Old 07-18-2013, 06:07 AM
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I hate to hear this H.F! It's like Christmas morning when you get the super whammy remote something or another and no one thought to get you batteries! Serious let down.

I think Mr. Tim is right on this one. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever disagreed with Mr. Tim smile.gif Sounds like a little more solder might be in order. I won't be surprised if you find a loose connection. Take that for what it's worth from me, though. I'm more of a brown when it's cooking, black when it's done kind of buy when it comes to soldering things. If I have solder left over when I'm done, I didn't use enough biggrin.gif

Keep us updated!

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post #632 of 1177 Old 07-18-2013, 09:56 AM
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Oh yeah... more heat. 30w will be painfully slow. Doable, but slow.

Put the iron at one end and place the solder about 3/8" away.. wait for the heat to grab it and draw it toward the iron.

Like I mentioned in my thread, I have a 60w iron and went to the 200w beast because it was so slow. If we were soldering more delicate components than 30w would be appropriate.

Got a Harbor Freight near you?

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post #633 of 1177 Old 07-18-2013, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Perhaps you recall a few days ago when I said something along the lines of, " I'm separating the woofer and tweeter into two boards. No big deal." It shouldn't have been, but I went crazy and grounded the woofer+ along with everything else. I suppose I'm lucky I didn't smoke my amp.

In this picture you see, from left to right:
1 - the ground - currently wired to amp- and woofer- formerly connected with 14g Romex to the next connection
2 - the woofer+ complete with old Romex and loose stranded wire
3 - the amp+ input

In the background you can see another solder joint sticking through.
AAEA9BEA-5C1B-44F6-994A-8A1CD64DE74B-26044-0000162CF4570A08_zps7506e314.jpg

I'll add some solder to "neaten" (read: beef up) a few connections and try again.


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post #634 of 1177 Old 07-18-2013, 01:32 PM
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Bonus points for honesty biggrin.gif

At least you have it figured out. Now the easy part.

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post #635 of 1177 Old 07-18-2013, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Sidebar: on sale for $25 at amazon if you don't already have them.


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post #636 of 1177 Old 07-18-2013, 02:17 PM
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Those solder joints are cold. Veryyyy cold. Like antartic cold.

The solder shouldn't blob like that.. it should melt into the strands.

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post #637 of 1177 Old 07-18-2013, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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How hot will they need to be? I mean, can I give them a head start in the oven? I'm not sure how much the wire sheathing can take.


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post #638 of 1177 Old 07-18-2013, 02:45 PM
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Can you get your hands on one of those automative type soldering guns? The kind with the trigger that heats up quickly? I've borrowed my father-in-law's before when I was doing some soldering on heavier gauge wiring. It lets the wire heat up quickly so you can get the soldering done before the insulation has time to start heating up too much. I have no idea how many watts the thing is, but it's a Snap On brand.

That may be over kill. I haven't soldered any XO components, but based on Mr. Tim's previous comment, these components should be able to handle it.

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post #639 of 1177 Old 07-18-2013, 02:45 PM
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The wire sheathing isn't terribly important. Looks like you could burn and inch and still have no worries.

They're really not getting any hotter than my joints, the problem is with the small wattage iron it spreads out before your piece reaches temp for soldering.

Use an oxy-acetylene torch to free up a rusted bolt, then use a propane torch.

I see Ace has a 60w weller for $15 or you can get a 100w weller from HD for $32. I think you are paddling up stream with such a small iron, but it is doable.

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post #640 of 1177 Old 07-18-2013, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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A 60W iron has made a huge difference. I would have to fight traffic across midtown to get to a HD, so I stopped at Lowes on the way home and picked up one of these 60W Weller irons. They had a 100W with a pistol grip for only $4 more, but it was heavy and somehow despite 40 extra watts, the packaging claims almost exactly the same temperature (5 degrees less, actually). In any case, it heated up quickly and was good enough to actually neaten a number of my connections without adding any solder.

So the question is, did I get the speakers up and running? I can't prove it to you tonight, but yessiree bobby I did. smile.gif A stereo pair of these is a lot more thrilling than just one cheap thrill. I'm still hooking them up in my unfinished construction zone, so true listening impressions are still not appropriate, (and even when they are, my experience with anything that resembles Hi-Fi is virtually nil) but I can assure you I am not disappointed. Even listening in a echo-chamber, I'm hearing new details in songs that I know by heart (at least I thought I did) - I listened to a little Zepplin (Black Dog), the first couple tracks of OK Computer (which I just about wore out when it was new), and a track or two of the new Daft Punk (which I really enjoy). Even compared to headphones (lo-fi, I'm sure), the detail in these things is outstanding. I get no sibilance. Bass is totally fine for 2-channel pop/rock. I attribute imaging to setup and room, but so far it's excellent - almost like headphones to my novice ears. I was sitting on the floor about 6 feet from them, spaced about 5 feet apart, and toed in to cross in front of me - all three of us out in the middle of the theater space.

Two thumbs up!


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post #641 of 1177 Old 07-18-2013, 07:34 PM
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AWESOME!

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post #642 of 1177 Old 07-20-2013, 05:32 AM
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It would be fun if you could hook those speakers up outside to get an idea of what they can really do. A fellow avs buddy of mine MrSmithers brought his TD12M-8 (8 ohm) + DNA-360 + SEOS 12 combo with crossover done by Bill Waslo to a GTG here in KC last month. We listened to them in a 3 season room (so kinda outside) and I thought they were fantastic with music at average levels but I really need a lot more time with them. It has me interested in the DIY speaker thing for sure. I just don't think I can commit to another project before my build is done though.

He is also building another set right now using the AE TD15M-8 + BMS 4550 + SEOS 15 combo that will hopefully be finished around the same time my room is ready in a few months. My plan is to have those 2 speakers over here at the same time as 2 of my friends JTR Noesis 212's and 224's and see what happens. I might throw in my own Klipsch RF-83's just for fun.

Looking good as always. I was quietly following your discussion of bass trapping awhile back. Did you decide what you want to do yet?


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post #643 of 1177 Old 07-20-2013, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm hoping to have a chance to hook them up where I can not only stretch their legs (a little) but also get some measurements. I won't be really pushing them - I don't have the power - and I don't want to bother my neighbors too much. I need some free space (quasi free space anyway) plots before I start positioning them, so hopefully I can get that done soon.

I was able to listen to them a lot at low (very low) levels while at work yesterday. I'm still very happy with them. My coworker Eddie says they sure do make his old busted clock radio sound like an old busted clock radio. wink.gif

The bass trapping ideas and process will take a while. I'm not making any decisions without measurements and thorough consideration. That'll have to wait a good while longer - I'll need to finish the riser and stage and soffits - not to mention get some subs!

Thanks for following along Grant. Don't be so quiet; I'm always interested in feedback. smile.gif


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post #644 of 1177 Old 07-20-2013, 08:37 AM
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HF,

Congrats on your SEOS speakers. You're going to really enjoy these!
As for bass trapping your space: don't be too concerned about overdoing it (or over thinking it). IMO - bass trapping all possible wall and corner intersections is beneficial; the more the better. When I was at your point; I stopped after I had bass trapped only the front corners and the front wall ceiling intersection. I am kicking myself now for NOT having also bass trapped the soffits along the sides and the rear corners

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post #645 of 1177 Old 07-20-2013, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I hear ya! I certainly don't want too little LF control. That's one of the reasons that my interior design plans are still so nebulous. I'm trying to leave my options open for acoustic design and finding ways to integrate the functional elements with the aesthetic design elements. I've got several ideas for both porous as well as diaphragmatic and other resonant designs I think I can use - I just won't know which ones will be most appropriate until I do some measurement and analysis. I've also got several ideas for diffusion and speculation absorption, but still measurement pending.

I run the risk of over thinking it - your warning is well-founded - but mostly because I have high hopes for maximizing the floor space in my small room (only 12 ft wide) as well as not short-changing the aesthetic interior design elements.


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post #646 of 1177 Old 07-21-2013, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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This should finish up the Cheap Thrill phase of the build. I completed final assembly of the third cabinet today. Like the others, it wasn't totally without incident, but everything should be good.

I started by using some drywall screws to gently secure the XO boards to the bottom of the cabinet.


Then I stuffed some R13 I had laying around in there. I hope this is enough.


Erich's kits come with foam gasket tape, but at least in my case, only enough for the waveguide. I found that it's not terribly sticky, but it adheres pretty well if you stretch it gently - like electrical tape. I had a little extra, due to the stretching.


For the woofer cutout, I wasn't sure what was recommended, but I had some similar foam tape laying around, so that's what I used.



In the case of the first two cabinets, I temporarily laid in the drivers and drilled through them to prepare for the screws, then removed the drivers to clear out the dust and shavings, then connected and screwed down the drivers. In this case, I went ahead and connected, then drilled and screwed without removing - I just had to blow out the shavings. These next two images show the hiccups. The first is that the woofer is a little dented. I'm pretty sure it happened in shipping and I didn't notice until I went to assemble. I had to bend out the lip on the edge to make room for the head of the screw. Unless it buzzes or something, I won't worry about it. This picture also demonstrates a pointer I have for novices. As with seating any gasket, the piece is basically tight when the gasket is deformed enough to stop leaks. With your finger across the edge of the driver, you can feel the driver sit down into the tape as you tighten it down. Once it's flush or starts to get tight, stop driving - MDF is easy to strip. Sorry these are so blurry.


Here's the last assembly shot, which shows the last hiccup and my other tip. Here I had to use drywall screws to secure the waveguide. They were the same shank and thread, but have a flat head instead of the pan head that Erich supplied - but the heads are the same diameter, so the drywall screws still sit down inside the recess nicely. Somehow I had exactly enough in my shipment for three woofers and two waveguides - so four drywall screws and I'm in business. The tip is use a normal screw driver - never a power driver; again MDF is easy to strip.



Last bit here is that these are big heavy speakers. I tried to get the speaker to balance on the scale but couldn't see the numbers with the cabinet sitting on them (duh), so first is me without the speaker - a few pound less than I expected.


Then me with the speaker in my arms - special thanks to the Mrs. for taking the picture while I held the speaker over her head.


If I'm reading the scale right and doing the simple math right, each speaker weighs just over 60 pounds! Luckily they are small enough to fit through doorways with arms on either side, so they are manageable solo - bend at the knees wink.gif Team lift recommended for close clearance maneuvering.


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post #647 of 1177 Old 07-24-2013, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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A couple notes: I was sanding joint compound on the ceiling today and came to the conclusion that I won't be able to produce a finish I'll be happy with. I've got a call in to a local guy who says he specializes in ceiling and drywall repair, finishing, and drywall services. Hopefully he can return my call and give me some good news. I've got a flat ceiling, but not the skills to get it right. I'm thinking it might be nice for a pro to put a skim coat on it.

In other news, here's a new parts express shopping list. I haven't committed to this, but I think it's my preference.

(2) 248-748 EP4000 stereo amp
(4) 092-0160 2-pole speakon connector flange panel
(8) 092-0168 2-pole speakon cable connector
(4) 300-7097 Dayton Audio 15" subwoofer kit
(12) 260-317 Acousta-stuf Polyfill
(2) 100-029 100ft 10awg speaker wire

And it occurs to me all of a sudden that it's not plenum or in-wall rated (I think). I don't actually think that's important since it will only poke through a wall and then route inside a soffit or riser, but I might reconsider.

This should be enough, when paired with miniDSP or a BFD, to pretty well guarantee the full range of reference sub capabilities. I think. It was recommended to me here. Comes to just over $2100 (but it seems I can find a sale price for the amps if I'm patient and careful), and will need only a little hardware and paint to finish.


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post #648 of 1177 Old 07-24-2013, 08:36 PM
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I was looking at a DO setup with several of these Dayton's a while back. They were all the rage in the sub forum for a while, but it seems like you've found a great deal that includes the cab! Four subs with the amps for just over $2k is not too shabby! It looks like you might be doing all the speaker homework for me, too smile.gif

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post #649 of 1177 Old 07-25-2013, 03:20 AM
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I bought the 4-pole speakons based on input from the DIY section.

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post #650 of 1177 Old 07-25-2013, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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What's the advantage of 4-pole? I would have thought two conductor cable would need 2-pole connector.


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post #651 of 1177 Old 07-25-2013, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

What's the advantage of 4-pole? I would have thought two conductor cable would need 2-pole connector.

I don't think there is any advantage per se. The 4-pole will connect to a 2-pole, so you just have 4-pole connectors "just in case". For example, you could wire each VC of a DVC or whatever.

I think some amps need 4-pole when you put them in bridge mode.

I'm no speakon guru.. so ymmv.. but because I knew nothing about them, I did do the research before I started. 4-pole is working fine and also connects to my nu1000

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post #652 of 1177 Old 07-30-2013, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Getting ready to start positioning some ducts and get my soffits roughed in. In this post, Dennis says you need to pull the sleeve through the drywall so that the penetration can be properly sealed. (re-using picture from Swamp Build)

Is this the only bit of hardware required?


It's six inches in diameter, and only 6 inches long. So I can't seal both sides of the wall - is that a concern?


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post #653 of 1177 Old 07-30-2013, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I have some of these too, but the flange end doesn't fit a coupler in it.


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post #654 of 1177 Old 07-30-2013, 05:36 PM
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I don't think sealing just the one side will be an issue.

The first pic will do. What's connecting on top? Assuming flex, will you be able to bend the flex that much? Or will there be an elbow on top?


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post #655 of 1177 Old 07-30-2013, 05:59 PM
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You can make that 90 degree turn with a piece of 6" flex, but all of those corrugations right near the diffuser could potentially cause audible air turbulence. I'd use a rigid right angle attached to that collar you are showing and straight into your bar diffuser back box if you can. Do you have the option of coming through the ceiling straight into your diffuser?


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post #656 of 1177 Old 07-30-2013, 06:05 PM
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I used a straight piece of duct similar to the first pic. The stuff I've got is a sheet of metal that has a "latch" bent along two edges. The nice part is you can cut it to the length you want, and then roll it over and "latch" it together to make the section of duct. I'm on my phone or I'd try to find a pic for you.

At any rate, I like the rigid duct coming through because you can connect the flex to it as close to the wall as you like. However, I think Ted recommends a piece of PVC for the added mass. I couldn't see spending the money on an 8' stick of 8" conduit just for a 10" piece of it.

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post #657 of 1177 Old 07-30-2013, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Tim - that was what made sense from a practical perspective, but it seemed too simple. wink.gif

I think maybe you're missing that the first picture is from Rabident's thread. My ducts will all come through walls - not ceilings.


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post #658 of 1177 Old 07-30-2013, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, guys - I knew I was running the risk of confusing everyone posting someone else's picture. Anyway, I cut a hole through my wall. I may have cried a little thinking about all teh effort I went to to make it air tight - or maybe that was the saw dust in my eyes. I don't have a 6" hole saw, and it didn't really seem worth the investment, so after a few pilot holes with a 7/8" spade bit, I used a reciprocating saw to cut the hole that I traced around the duct fitting. I haven't sealed it up with any caulk yet, but it's a really snug fit. I had to hammer it into place a little.


Was that hole supposed to be round? Heh.


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post #659 of 1177 Old 07-30-2013, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Also, I finally heard back from the ceiling finisher I called last week. We chatted briefly yesterday on the phone, and of course his only request was that I stop working on it until he could come see it. He's coming over Friday to hopefully give me a very reasonable estimate. ::crosses fingers::


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post #660 of 1177 Old 07-30-2013, 06:52 PM
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That was going to be my next suggestion..... Just cut the hole, man! smile.gif

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!


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