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139K views 2K replies 89 participants last post by  impreza276 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi. My name's Fred, and this is my first meeting. I haven't figured out what twelve steps go with the addiction I've developed, but I'm sure there will be wide screens and acoustically transparant everything.

Oh, wait. Is that not what we do here?


Seriously, getting this moving is one of those weird experiences where I'm not sure how it will turn out, but I've obsessed for long enough. I've told all my friends about how they'll never want to go pay for movie tickets again, and all they'll need to do it bring some popcorn and drinks. I just hope you all can help me bring that promise home, and within my lifetime.
I'm sure if you've read more than a couple build threads you'll recognize some design ideas I've borrowed (thanks guys!), but that doesn't mean I've thought of everything. So please keep an open mind and blurt out whatever you think - I know I'm trying to think creatively as much as possible, so I'm ready for suggestions.

I've purchased a recently built (in the last decade) home with a previously "finished" basement - we moved in October. I'll show you some pictures and video below, but all that will do is provide visual reference for the demolition that will need to happen. I'm not really sure how the previous owners used this space, but I can't imagine it was up to my standards for sound or light control. There are windows I'm afraid will have to go, and speakers in the ceiling that won't do at all, and hardwood flooring that I hope can be reused by someone else ...we'll see.

The prime space is around 12 feet wide (12 and a half in some places), 9 feet tall, and longer than I can use - 37 feet. There are one or two adjacent spaces that might become part of the whole experience - you'll see in the plans below.

Here's the bullets for a wish list
  • seating for 6 or more
  • superior sound control - a low noise floor especially.
  • light control - automated would be ideal, budget pending
  • constant height projection (no lens) and infinitely variable masking (automation not required)
  • acoustically transparent screen
  • concealed speakers as well as acoustic treatments
  • 7.2, maybe 7.4
  • equipment in another room (I have only a small number of pieces already - BDP, Boxee Box, a receiver I hope to use as amp)
  • the lowest budget possible*
I'll go ahead and post a layout and a video so you can see the space, and then I'll mention some of the challenges I've identified. (Pardon the video, embedded here, it seems to get stretched to 16:9, even though the iPod shoots video 4:3 - it's right on YouTube at my channel - HopefulFred)



Link to YouTube

The bad news:
  • The width is a fixed constraint. The sump pump and stairwell are not moving.
  • The existing soffits and ceiling are weird. Hopefully, when I tear down the drywall I'll find problems with solutions, and not just more problems.
  • The length will need to get worked out. The landing for the stairs may impose practical limits, but I'm hoping that I can make everything work well without getting too creative or having two doors in the theater (I'll show you what I mean in my proposed final layouts).
  • The HVAC unit that serves the basement is a heat pump, and the air handler is directly adjacent to the current finished room. I want to maximize the effectiveness of this unit while also keeping its noises out.
  • There are as many as four windows that may have to go entirely. Depending on final length of the room, I may not need to remove all of them. Or maybe I can be convinced I don't need to remove any of them, but I doubt that.
The good news:
  • The better half trusts me to handle this. She understands it will take a year or two ...or three (did I just jinx this already?) and won't try to stop me from building fabric wall panels or painting the ceiling black.
  • There are no kids; I feel like that's a plus just because it takes away one of the things people have to plan for. But given my other goals, I actually can't see how this makes a difference.
I'm sure there is other good news... like I have 9 feet worth of height to work with before riser, and I have access to some free materials that I may want, like four old theater seats (not the newer rocker style - the older flip seat bottom and solid arm design) and a section of old screen (not sure if it will be useful at all).

Here's my current working design plan. I haven't really considered an elevation yet, but once I get the length sorted I'll be looking into that to work out screen and riser heights.




Link to YouTube

Step 00 - Measure, plan, consult, replan.
Step 01 - Demolition
Step 02 - Reframe
Step 03 - Drywall
Step 04 - Risers and Soffits
Step 05 - Pre-Wire
Step 06 - Paint
Step 07 - Fabric Walls
Step 08 - Screen, Screen Wall, and Masking
Step 09 - Carpet
Step 10 - Seating
Step 12 - Calibration
 
Speaker Build (LCR) 

Thanks for reading. In the absence of better ideas, this is approximately where I'm headed. I'd love to have your thoughts and encouragement along the way.

Fred
 
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#1,514 ·
Just keep in mind even slow progress is PROGRESS, heck even backwards progress can even be considered progress. Hang in there my friend. We have all had those crazy couple of weeks that derail us.

Regards,

RTROSE
 
#1,519 ·
Wall stack is 3.25 deep. So you can get a duct inlet above there. Not sure if that helps at all (doesn't appear to).

Also, it looks like the two top plates and layer of drywall aren't doing anything, so you could remove that and gain another 3.5 inches.

I guess the larger question is what the problem is? Seems like there s enough room, especially since it's only the first 3.5 inches that is so narrow.

Which active thermal solution were you looking at? They all appear to mount inside the rack. So my knee-jerk reaction would be a duct inlet above the rack to move the hot air out of the closet, a la Panasonic whisper fan.

Tim
 
#1,521 ·
Wall stack is 3.25 deep. So you can get a duct inlet above there. Not sure if that helps at all (doesn't appear to)

Tim
I didn't immediately see what you were referring to here, but now I do.
I suppose I probably could just get a common 4×10 floor diffuser and mount fans behind it.
 
#1,520 ·
I realize now that I failed to provide all the constraints... The rack front needs to go behind a glass door. The door is exactly one inch taller than the cutout in the drywall.

If I were using normal rackmount ventilation, I'd have to ditch the door, so I am limited to the top 3.5" to get hot air out, unless I were to duct it and route out near the floor. There might be space for that, but I don't want that, if I can help it.

Maybe just a fan lifting hot air off the top would be enough without pushing the heat out of the closet? Maybe I should consider a louvered insert for the top of the door (the closet door, not the glass rack door)? Maybe there is a narrow solution I can mount cleanly in that 3.5 inches of drywall?
 
#1,522 ·
So you plan to exhaust the hot air through the wall above the glass door?

Where are you going to introduce the cool air from? Those fans usually don't deal well with high static pressure. You may need a push-pull setup.

I have (2) case fans exhausting from my equipment closet into an adjacent closet. There is a lot less equipment than what you have and my temps can get about 92 degrees. I also ran a return grill from my HVAC system into the closet so when the HVAC is running it is pulling air across the equipment.

Tim
 
#1,523 ·
So you plan to exhaust the hot air through the wall above the glass door?
Yes, I certainly hope so - though I would wish I could employ a passive solution, that doesn't seem likely.

Where are you going to introduce the cool air from? Those fans usually don't deal well with high static pressure. You may need a push-pull setup.
That's what I was imagining would be recommended. Draw in cool air through fans set in the wall below the rack and force hot air out through fans set in the wall above the rack.

One of the products that looks like it might make sense is the "Dual-Cool". It's basically a box of fans, rackmounted and exhausting up into a length of flex duct. It's 2RU and can rear mount. At 7" deep, I would still be forced to move my amp and receiver down three RU or so, because my rack won't be deeper than 23", and my amp is 18" deep - receiver 15.5" deep I think - so neither would fit in the rame RU with the "dual-cool"

http://www.activethermal.com/page46.html

 
#1,524 ·
I went ahead with cutting a hole above the rack for an exhaust vent. Frank at Active Thermal has recommended a cool cube, which looks basically like a small inline fan with an integrated thermal controller. Not sure what it costs, but it's probably worth it if it's the right solution. http://www.activethermal.com/page33.html

The cool cube uses 4" duct or smaller. The only register at lowes that would fit comfortably above my rack was 12x2. The only boot that would connect to 12x2 has a 6" round back end. The 4" flex duct I bought for venting the projector has an outer jacket that just barely fits around a 6" duct fitting. I think I can make this work.





If it doesn't work, I'm out $15 worth of duct boot and register and I'll have to patch in some new drywall. I figured go for it.
 
#1,525 ·
Middle Atlantic makes a product called a Closet Cool meant for this exact type of situation. It's a bit spendy, but I did find one on eBay for $135 delivered: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Middle-Atla...063779?hash=item1a067de5a3:g:XtEAAOSw37tWAFYZ (Just make sure the guy is including the diffuser as well and not just the fans)

The Cabinet Cool is far less powerful and about $75 street price for a single unit, $105 for a dual unit. I'd put the 12x2 below the rack for a passive intake and then use the closet cool fan unit above the rack.

You will have *some* heat coming from your rack, but it isn't crazy amounts of heat with tightly packed equipment.

Another tip is to get the smoked (tinted) glass for the front door as it gives a nice, professional look and tones down all the equipment lights.

Oh, and stop taking tips from me in your theater '(de)construction' :rolleyes:
 
#1,526 ·
Thanks for the tips! That closet cool listing at eBay doesn't seem to include the vents that MA includes when new, but that's probably a minor issue... I'll keep an eye on it while I wait for a price quote from ATM.

I actually do have a smoked door. It's one of my favorite things about the free rack I got.

I still haven't removed the brads and rehung the wood, but once I do I will have removed any trace of (de)construction. Any day now.(?)
 
#1,529 ·
I have my room fans setup to turn on whenever the AVR is on. I use the trigger output on my AVR to switch a relay to power my fan. You could do something similar using a regular inline fan. The relays are pretty cheap and I have a wiring diagram in my thread. I initially wanted to setup everything with thermostats and pressure balancing controllers (aka Moggie's build), but finally decided I just needed the fans on when the AVR was on. Start simple, and add complexity if it turns out it's necessary.
 
#1,530 ·
I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on the MA closet cooler. It's the only manufactured option I can find that should fit in the narrow space. It comes with both vents for intake and exhaust, and it costs less than the cool cube, plus I don't have to fool around with ducting; it fits around the rack as it sits.

B&H has it for a reasonable price. Does anybody want to talk me out of it?
 
#1,533 · (Edited)
I completely understand. However, based on my very limited knowledge of that product, I don't really see why one of these for the controller and two of these fans wouldn't be pretty much identical. You could even get two more of the fans for forced air intake as well.
Now, that MA product could have other benefits that I'm not aware of. It just doesn't seem like there is anything there that is worth that price. I'll recede to my place in the peanut gallery now as I probably don't know what I'm talking about. Please proceed.
 
#1,534 ·
Yeah, a bit expensive but I suppose it depends on what you value your time at.

I used two 80mm case fans, a temp controller and a 12v wall wart. I use a 4x8 louvered grill to cover them. Total cost was probably around $20, but I had to put it all together. I do like that the temp controller displays the current cabinet temperature. Just because you put 50cfm of air transfer in the closet doesn't mean it's going to be enough. The digital display lets you know how it's working.

Tim
 
#1,535 ·
Those fans BllDo is recommending only move 10 CFM each. Might be enough, might not....but you could add more with that fan controller.

Have you looked at the stuff from AC Infinity that's advertised here on this site? I've never used them, but it seems to be really nice stuff at a very sharp price. Plus it gets you the digital readout you were looking for in many cases. I am sure you can Macgyver some sort of connections together for intake / outakes: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...words=ac+infinity&sprefix=ac+infinity,aps,161
 
#1,536 ·
Yeah my masscool fans do about 30CFM each. Need to be careful about the cfm and what they provide given a certain static pressure.

I have an AC Infinity setup for the cabinet where my PS3 and media server are. It's a really nice setup, also with temp display and a couple of options for actuation. The fan cables can be extended with standard USB cables.

Tim
 
#1,542 ·
Thermostatically controlled is best not all on / all off regardless of actual heat load. You only want to run the fans when needed...and only to the extent needed. Otherwise you are introducing more dust into your equipment which reminds me of a AV 'life hack': Use a spent dryer sheet as a filter behind your passive air intake. It introduces negligible static pressure, does a great job of filtering dust and most households have a virtually unlimited supply of these 'free' filters that would otherwise be thrown away. Same goes for intakes of projector hush boxes.
 
#1,544 ·
Here's my setup-- a 1U vented rack panel I dremel'd to accept the temp controller. Temp controller comes with a temp probe on a lead, which I put about an inch above my receiver:
Great solution! I use those inexpensive little controllers for brewing all the time but didn't consider this type of mounting option. Nice...
 
#1,546 ·
Thanks, Mike, perhaps someday. But as you can see, I can't even finish a simple set of shop drawers at this point... ;)
 
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