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post #541 of 1297 Old 10-18-2012, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I applied it last night. I didn't use it for the vertical portion of the soffit but decided to use it here because I have a cut/routed edge of MDF exposed and want to make sure that I don't have any issues painting it. I feel with the sanding sealer and drywall primer that I should have a good base to paint on. I plan to use the same strategy with my columns and LCR speakers too.


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post #542 of 1297 Old 10-18-2012, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by vanice View Post

Yes, I applied it last night. I didn't use it for the vertical portion of the soffit but decided to use it here because I have a cut/routed edge of MDF exposed and want to make sure that I don't have any issues painting it. I feel with the sanding sealer and drywall primer that I should have a good base to paint on. I plan to use the same strategy with my columns and LCR speakers too.

well your a couple steps a head me so i will Waite to see how yours goes smile.gif... i think you will get a good result thou


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post #543 of 1297 Old 10-18-2012, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I actually got really good results (at least I think so) just using the tinted drywall primer. A light sanding took off any fuzzies and it was pretty smooth after that. This part of the project will be more readily seen so I want to make sure I do what I can to get a good finish. And since I have read stories about painting cut/routed edges of MDF I decided to add the sanding sealer step in. It was pretty cheap insurance to help ease my mind.


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post #544 of 1297 Old 10-18-2012, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by vanice View Post

I actually got really good results (at least I think so) just using the tinted drywall primer. A light sanding took off any fuzzies and it was pretty smooth after that. This part of the project will be more readily seen so I want to make sure I do what I can to get a good finish. And since I have read stories about painting cut/routed edges of MDF I decided to add the sanding sealer step in. It was pretty cheap insurance to help ease my mind.

i think i will be doing the same ... thanks


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post #545 of 1297 Old 10-19-2012, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I did find time to work last night. Started off by putting a coat of black spray paint on the can light trims. I have a couple that are bubbling and I don't know why. One is so bad that I will probably have to strip it all the way back down and start over. I'm using two layers of primer with two layers of black. It's almost like each layer I put on eat away a little at the layer before it. It's strange and really starting to become a pain.

I also was able to sand down the light tray and get a coat of tinted drywall primer on it. It turned out pretty good. I do have a couple of places where I notice that my hole filler didn't get sanded as much as it should have. Not sure if I will try sanding it down again at this point. 98% of it looks just fine so I will probably just leave it because I may make it more noticeable if I start going to town sanding again. Anyways... here is a pic of the front of the room.

IMG_2512_zps58d1f6f1.jpg

And one of the back.

IMG_2513_zpsabbd885a.jpg

You can also see in this pic that I have started glueing up my pieces for the 4Pi's. Those are the ports under the paint can. I need to work on getting all the holes and routering done on the fronts and then it should be smooth sailing after that. I think I am going to follow BIG's method for covering them. I just need to get in contact with him to find out what he used.

This weekend I will be trying to construct my columns and wrapping up the light tray. And if there is any extra time (which I doubt) I will work on the 4Pi's.


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post #546 of 1297 Old 10-19-2012, 11:33 AM
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Greetings, I just painted my can lights and speaker grills in my theater. After several iterations, this is what worked best for my needs... Sherwin williams "problock spray primer", two coats and a third on the backside of flange to ensure rounded edge was fully covered. The slick baked on factory finish does not take paint easily. I also painted to match my ceiling and wall paint colors, using a small sprayer. After a couple of bubbling issues, I found using a flow agent in my spray gun with the latex provided a much smoother and cleaner finish over the problock primer. I first used "kilz" primer from lowes, and had the bubbling / cracking issue. In the past, I have used 220/320 grit finishing wet/dry sand paper to rough up the surface, but have found the problock saves time.

Good luck, build looks fantastic. I am finishing a "flip house" currently with minimal theater build. However, my next house will have a dedicated theater with stage, AT screen, etc.
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post #547 of 1297 Old 10-19-2012, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info. Is the problock in a can or do you have to use a separate sprayer? I frequent SW all the time but never noticed this particular stuff.

Hopefully I can salvage what I have done so far. I would say half of them have zero issues, the other half or so have very minor issues that will probably be hidden once they are installed, and one of them is a complete mess. Wondering if the fastest way to start over on it will be to get some liquid paint remover and just let the trim piece soak in it for awhile and then wipe it down. I still have some HVAC vents to paint too so I need to get my method down so I don't have issues with them as well.


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post #548 of 1297 Old 10-19-2012, 08:19 PM
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post #549 of 1297 Old 10-22-2012, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, the weekend update is going to be a short one.

Saturday:

Drywall guys came by to touch up some issues from before (non-theater areas). While they were here I started constructing the main boxes for the 4Pi's.

IMG_2515_zps4c8cafca.jpg

After they left I made a trip to the store for some supplies. Spent some time outside trying to strip down several of my light trim pieces. This is turning out to be a nightmare. I actually took one all the way down, cleaned it up the best I can, and hit it with some of the SW Problock primer that was suggested. Same issues. My next option may be brushing on the drywall primer I have. Nothing else seems to be working and I am not going to keep stripping these things down.

Saturday night I threw on the first coat of black paint. Looks really nice.

IMG_2514_zps225ec45c.jpg

IMG_2518_zps625eeb1c.jpg

Sunday:

Started cutting holes for the can lights.

IMG_2516_zps0eb6b7c5.jpg

IMG_2517_zpsea661c9a.jpg

Then spent the majority of the day cutting pieces for columns. Didn't get everything cut (far from it actually) but got enough for a teaser pic. biggrin.gif

IMG_2519_zps7246c2ab.jpg

It was a good start but far from where I wanted to be at this time.


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post #550 of 1297 Old 10-22-2012, 11:35 AM
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"Spent some time outside trying to strip down several of my light trim pieces. This is turning out to be a nightmare. I actually took one all the way down, cleaned it up the best I can, and hit it with some of the SW Problock primer that was suggested. Same issues."

This is very puzzling (and frustrating)!
Until you said you took one all the way down to bare metal; I might have wondered if you were expereincing some kind of mismatch between the original finish and the type of black paint you are using (ie. lacquer -vs- enamel. or..)?
Curious what you are cleaning these with before you paint them?

What I did and worked well for me was:
1) scuffed up the original finish with a fine sandpaper (200 ~ 300 grit)
2) wiped them down with rubbing alcohol
3) Used a very basic and ordinary rust-oleum flat black spray paint, (I believe it was enamel), 2~3 light coats.

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post #551 of 1297 Old 10-22-2012, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I actually did not take it down to the bare metal. I took it down to the original coating and roughed that up before re-priming. I asked the person at SW and they brought up the mismatch of lacquer vs. enamel. I don't know if that is the issue because only about half of them had the issue. These are the exact same lights that BIG and Damelon used for the Bacon Race Theater. Before I originally painted them I just wiped them off with a clean rag. Second time around I have used a gel paint stripper along with acetone to clean them further.

I still need to strip down the other 5 or 6 that have issues. If I think about it I will post a pic of what they look like now later this week. For the one that I stripped down and re-primed, the original coating started to peel off and it was almost like a rubbery coating. I'm afraid to try and peel this coating off. If I mess it up too bad I will be buying a whole new light since these are assemblies.

I just never thought that this part would be so frustrating. I hadn't seen any issues raised so I thought it would be pretty straight forward. I may still give the drywall primer a try. I could also take the one that is really messed up now all the way down to bare metal and start from there. Oh the joys of DIY. rolleyes.gif


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post #552 of 1297 Old 10-26-2012, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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It's been a very slow week because of work and a cold but I do have some deliveries to report.

Found this waiting for me Wednesday night...

IMG_2520.jpg

It's either Knause or OC703. Not sure what Bryan supplied. I didn't have time to crack it open.

And then last night came home to find...

IMG_2521.jpg

IMG_2522.jpg

This was a big surprise because I never received any kind of shipment notification. Also, I could definitely be ready to put some of this up this weekend and having it here leaves that option on the table. Let's hope I calculated the right amount needed. rolleyes.gif

Still waiting on the 2" cotton. Not sure when that will show up. Luckily it is the last of these items that I would need so it shouldn't hold me up too much. I just hope it's here before next weekend.

This weekend is shaping up for some good progress.


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post #553 of 1297 Old 10-26-2012, 06:47 AM
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Ah yes the Bryan boxes! You have hit the treatment mother-load! Are you building frames yourself?


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post #554 of 1297 Old 10-26-2012, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I will be building the frames myself although I am thinking of doing them a little differently than you did. I will have 2" treatments along the walls and 6" along the back wall. My back wall will be similar to yours (I will offset the frame from the wall with blocking) but I also plan to offset the side walls rather than make 2" thick frames. Where I'm thinking I may switch things up and do it a little differently is in the frame construction. Instead of using 1/2" ply and layering it to get 1" thick frames, I think that I may try a single layer of 3/4" ply and use my Kreg jig to assemble the frames. I will then brace with 1/2" ply as needed. These frames will be attached to 2x2's that are attached to the walls effectively giving me a 2 1/4" space for my 2" thick cotton. I figure the 3/4" ply with bracing should be strong enough to stretch fabric over and tall enough to allow me to put a good chamfer on it.

If he had spec'd out 1" treatments I would have followed your build exactly but the 2" everywhere threw me for a loop. I didn't want to cut and assemble that much ply so I came up with this method. Hopefully it works out. I'm excited to see this stuff go up.


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post #555 of 1297 Old 10-26-2012, 07:26 AM
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If you are going to put a chamfer on the panels use a 1/2 inch plywood and 1/2 inch MDF strips. The bevel is a lot easier to cut on the MDF. I've learned this the hard way. At Damelons I didn't and cutting them was a challenge. Irregardless of method be aware of where you put your fasteners and where you need to cut. I used 1/4 inch crown 7/8 staples. Here is my crude video on frame assembly

th_MakingFrames.jpg


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post #556 of 1297 Old 10-26-2012, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Ah, just the guy I was hoping would chime in. Thanks for the video. I wish I had a laydown space to work with like you do.

If I make my frames 1" thick then I have to create even more strips to offset the frames from the wall since I am doing 2" treatments. Using 3/4" ply allows me to attach them to 2x2's that are already attached to the walls. I was just thinking that doing it this way would cut down on my material costs and time cutting.

Would a router make a mess of plywood (I haven't tried it but might this weekend)? I know it does really well with MDF (which I'm sure is why you are suggesting it). I don't really want to use the table saw to chamfer if I can avoid it. I'm thinking maybe a 1/2"-5/8" chamfer, nothing too drastic.

I also have a question about the upholstery stapler. I think I am going to bite the bullet and get the Porter US58 but what kind of staple would you recommend? Would these GREX ones work?


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post #557 of 1297 Old 10-26-2012, 08:04 AM
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It looks like Christmas came early for you Vanice. I hope that you have a very productive weekend!

Big, that video proves that you need your own television show. I can see it now, "BIG theaters with BIGmouthinDC." biggrin.gif


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post #558 of 1297 Old 10-26-2012, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanice View Post

Ah, just the guy I was hoping would chime in. Thanks for the video. I wish I had a laydown space to work with like you do.
If I make my frames 1" thick then I have to create even more strips to offset the frames from the wall since I am doing 2" treatments. Using 3/4" ply allows me to attach them to 2x2's that are already attached to the walls. I was just thinking that doing it this way would cut down on my material costs and time cutting.
Would a router make a mess of plywood (I haven't tried it but might this weekend)? I know it does really well with MDF (which I'm sure is why you are suggesting it). I don't really want to use the table saw to chamfer if I can avoid it. I'm thinking maybe a 1/2"-5/8" chamfer, nothing too drastic.
I also have a question about the upholstery stapler. I think I am going to bite the bullet and get the Porter US58 but what kind of staple would you recommend? Would these GREX ones work?

The Grex work fine in the PorterCable US58. I used these. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KM300A/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00 They are an 1/8" shorter than the ones you found, but work fine and are a few bucks less.

I used BC grade sanded plywood for my frames and used a 1/4" roundover bit on the edges with no problem. I'm guessing you could use a small chamfer bit assuming you use the higher grade ply. Mine was 1/2" ply that had 4 layers to it with no voids. I looked at other 1/2" ply that only had 3 layers with lots of voids. I don't think a router would have worked as well on the lower grade stuff.

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post #559 of 1297 Old 10-26-2012, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Spaceman. Those are exactly the answers I was looking for.

I was thinking the same thing. Use a better grade sanded plywood with more layers to it and the router should work pretty well. Now I just need to experiment with a few of my bits to find the right chamfer that I want to use.

I will get the cheaper staples since they should hold well enough. So how many did you end up buying?


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post #560 of 1297 Old 10-29-2012, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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A very frustrating weekend of work. A few pictures to follow either later tonight or tomorrow.

Having second thoughts about trying to add LED lighting to the columns. So many jumper wires to make everything work. Might be more trouble than it's worth. I think it would be a really cool addition but unless I can come up with a way to prewire and add it in later, this build will have to move on without it. Anybody have any suggestions for easily constructed jumpers and readily available wire? Here are the only things I have come up with.

Wire connectors - Would need about 50 total to complete the room.

Wire - Not sure if I can use this or not but it is the right gauge and inexpensive.

Hopefully all the LED gurus out there will chime in with their expert opinions.


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post #561 of 1297 Old 10-29-2012, 08:08 AM
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For your connections, I would look at crimp connectors for connecting two wires together and simply soldering the other ends to the LED strips.

I see no reason why that wire won't work.


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post #562 of 1297 Old 10-29-2012, 08:20 AM
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That wire should work, but here is the engineered version specifically meant for the RGB LED lights: http://www.amazon.com/LEDwholesalers-Conductor-Changing-LED-Strips/dp/B0077K1G22

Here are the pre-made jumpers, which can be ordered premade in a variety of different lengths and eliminate the need to solder: http://www.amazon.com/Ledwholesalers-LED-Strip-Connector-Conductor/dp/B0077JV29K/ref=sr_1_8?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1351523503&sr=1-8&keywords=led+strip+light+wire

If I were you, I would find ways to NOT solder because it is marginally difficult and tedious. You obviously have to get enough hear to solder, but not so much you burn through this very thin strip material with the printed conductors. Talking from experience, it can be tricky to solder these strip lights. The mechanical crimp makes extremely quick and reliable connections.


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post #563 of 1297 Old 10-29-2012, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaustin View Post

For your connections, I would look at crimp connectors for connecting two wires together and simply soldering the other ends to the LED strips.

Something different than I linked above? I figured these were my best bet since I can use them to join to strips as well as insert wire into them and create a jumper cable. If there is something better or easier out there I am all ears. I am looking to avoid soldering directly to the strip. It needs to be as plug-n-play as it can be in the event that I had to swap out a strip for some reason. And soldering in a 2" gap between the wall and the back of the column will not work.


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post #564 of 1297 Old 10-29-2012, 08:33 AM
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I was referring to these types of connectors:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103505

I think that the connector that you linked to would work, but I don't know how well they'ed connect two wires together. It looks like they are designed to connect the ends of two of the strips. That is why I recommended the other crimp connectors for the wires.

I like the jumpers that TMcG linked to as well and agree that soldering onto something that small can be difficult.


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post #565 of 1297 Old 10-29-2012, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

That wire should work, but here is the engineered version specifically meant for the RGB LED lights: http://www.amazon.com/LEDwholesalers-Conductor-Changing-LED-Strips/dp/B0077K1G22
Here are the pre-made jumpers, which can be ordered premade in a variety of different lengths and eliminate the need to solder: http://www.amazon.com/Ledwholesalers-LED-Strip-Connector-Conductor/dp/B0077JV29K/ref=sr_1_8?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1351523503&sr=1-8&keywords=led+strip+light+wire
If I were you, I would find ways to NOT solder because it is marginally difficult and tedious. You obviously have to get enough hear to solder, but not so much you burn through this very thin strip material with the printed conductors. Talking from experience, it can be tricky to solder these strip lights. The mechanical crimp makes extremely quick and reliable connections.

$.01 per foot is a crazy price! I wonder if the 18GA. will fit as well as the 22GA.?

The jumpers you linked are exactly what I was thinking about only making them myself. I would need jumpers ranging in size from 20" long to 9'+ to go from column to column. If I were to wire each side of the room as one run, it would be approx. 21.5' of LED lighting plus the jumpers. I think that would work off one power supply.

I definitely want to avoid soldering directly to the strips. I don't solder much and it looks like a very tight precise solder would be required.


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post #566 of 1297 Old 10-29-2012, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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That wire should work, but here is the engineered version specifically meant for the RGB LED lights: http://www.amazon.com/LEDwholesalers-Conductor-Changing-LED-Strips/dp/B0077K1G22

Somethings screwed up because it is $.60 for 60 feet but almost $300 to ship it! eek.gif


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post #567 of 1297 Old 10-29-2012, 08:52 AM
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It looks like they are charging $0.01 per foot but also $5 shipping per foot.

If you can't get it worked out with the manufacturer (and with TMcG's blessing wink.gif) I say that you just use the first wire that you linked to. It is just copper after all right?

What about category cable?


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post #568 of 1297 Old 10-29-2012, 09:13 AM
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I will get the cheaper staples since they should hold well enough. So how many did you end up buying?

I ordered 3 boxes (30,000 staples). I used 6,000+ on the first 31 frames. I have 2 more boxes coming, hopefully today or tomorrow. I might not need the 3rd box, but they are pretty cheap so I grabbed it just in case.

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post #569 of 1297 Old 10-29-2012, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I ordered 3 boxes (30,000 staples). I used 6,000+ on the first 31 frames. I have 2 more boxes coming, hopefully today or tomorrow. I might not need the 3rd box, but they are pretty cheap so I grabbed it just in case.

I went ahead and ordered 20,000. The stapler and staples should either be here tomorrow or Wednesday. If I can get my columns primed/painted and ready by this weekend then I might actually get to use my new toy. smile.gif


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post #570 of 1297 Old 10-29-2012, 10:47 AM
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It looks like they are charging $0.01 per foot but also $5 shipping per foot.
If you can't get it worked out with the manufacturer (and with TMcG's blessing wink.gif) I say that you just use the first wire that you linked to. It is just copper after all right?
What about category cable?

True, but a finer 20 gauge wire has more resistance than the 18 gauge wire, and with long runs and LED strip lights....carefully balancing the power supply and the resistance is the name of the game in making sure all the lights illuminate evenly and at the same level.

The other reason to use the authentic wire is that it is specifically designed to work with those clips shown in the other link. I would be afraid of the other wire's size and jacket size not being the right fit for a good, solid electrical connection. That's the real reason why I think going with the genuine products may cost a wee bit more but are far more reliable when used as intended vs. being "made to work".


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