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post #31 of 207 Old 01-13-2012, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by rs691919 View Post

Gotcha. Any suggestions for smaller framed chairs?



I don't know that the concrete is level enough for that, but I'll check into that.




Yeah, reading through your thread I can tell how much you love insulation! Fortunately, I'm gonna leave all the dirty work up to the contractor and oversee it with a Boddington's in hand!

Hat channel on out of level walls is done all of the time. You just shim the hat channel. Your contractor should know how to do this no problem. It does cost time, which in turn is money to do this.

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post #32 of 207 Old 01-13-2012, 10:51 AM
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Your room is tight for two rows of seating, using your current layout. I would use in-wall speakers and that would allow you to regain 18" of much needed space. There are advantages to going with in-wall speakers VS in-room speakers placed close to the front wall and side walls. Just choose in-wall speakers that are designed with an enclosure and you can have excellent sound.

This would allow you to get the rear seats farther off of the back wall giving better sound in the back row. It is a shame to have the MLP (rear row for you) not have the best audio.

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post #33 of 207 Old 02-07-2012, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Rack questions

Been slowly gathering more information and working on design for the theater -- to the point where my head feels like it's going to explode. I think I've run into a mental block that I just can't get around, and it has to do with the equipment rack. Despite attempts at researching this topic, I'm moderately confused, so I thought I'd ask some very basic questions:

1) How much power conditioning does one need and what do the power conditioner(s) actually do?
2) How much ventilation/heat control does one need -- the back of my rack will be in the unfinished basement and I would likely put a vented door with a lock so my son can't get at it.
3) WARNING REALLY STUPID QUESTION: how does the equipment actually sit in the rack -- on shelves or I've seen some where the equipment seems to be "screwed" in or attached? Is there a preferred way?
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post #34 of 207 Old 02-07-2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs691919 View Post

Rack questions

1) How much power conditioning does one need and what do the power conditioner(s) actually do? Its magic / vudu. Just kidding, but I wouldn't over worry about it. That said, don't be shocked if you find yourself send $1-300 to Panamax/Monster/APC/Belkin, because at that point you'll figure it can't hurt. Just my opinion.
2) How much ventilation/heat control does one need -- the back of my rack will be in the unfinished basement and I would likely put a vented door with a lock so my son can't get at it.If its open to an unfinished basement I would consider how items are placed on your rack and allow for some spacing, but wouldn't worry about fans. Don't put the DVR an inch from the amp and not expect the hard drive not to eventually fail. You also need to consider the weight of some components, especially amplifiers. That may dictate what kind of rack you get (2 rack rails screwed into studs vs a 4 post telecom rack).
3) WARNING REALLY STUPID QUESTION: how does the equipment actually sit in the rack -- on shelves or I've seen some where the equipment seems to be "screwed" in or attached? Is there a preferred way? For a rack, rack, like mid atlantic, etc. There are rails spaced 19" apart, with spaced screw holes. Some gear come with "Rack ears" which will allow the gear to be screwed directly to the rack. Usually just to the front. Some heavy amps have rack ears in the back that could be screwed to rear rail posts. Some computer cases might have that too. Everything else goes on a shelf. The shelves are expensive. You get a shelf based on the size of the gear. Racks are measure in units, 1U=1.75 inches. After a piece is placed on a shelf you can buy custom faceplates that screw onto the front of the shelf and are precisely cut out to make the device look built in. You can also get blank faceplates if you decide to space out your gear and don't want a buncj of holes in the rack. Both shelves and faceplates can be purchased in solid or vented versions.

If you haven't looked through the show me sticky, including the rack one, you should.
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post #35 of 207 Old 02-08-2012, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Dave. I did look closely at the rack thread but I think my questions are so neophyte that I couldn't find any answers.

For my purposes, it sounds like a relatively basic rack will be suitable. My main goal is to keep the cables neat and to be able to lock the front and rear doors. I'll post a quote from a local dealer later today...seemed a bit excessive to me. Looking at the Middle Atlantic site, I can't figure out what the "rear rail" kit is for. Nor can I figure out what the color-coded letters next to the power strip configurations mean.
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post #36 of 207 Old 02-08-2012, 09:21 AM
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Did you get the HVAC figured out?

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post #37 of 207 Old 02-08-2012, 10:17 AM
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I just saw ur build. How r u doing with it? I'll be following. I saw some take regarding ur soffit. I just wanted to add something of interest that i just discovered and i'm using in my build to help save room. there are LED cans out (5-6 inch) that can fit in a jbox now. only 2.5" total depth and are IC rated for zero clearance. This is allowing me to put them in the same bays as my hvac flex when i decide if i'm going to give up headroom for a soffit or keep everything up in my joists. they are made by seagull lighting. there is also another company that HD is getting via web order only and they are glimpse from lighting science. the HD ones are ugh much cheaper but don't know if they are as good.

just an idea to throw ur way. also remember with LED dimming becomes an issue cause of the drivers LED uses. u have to make sure ur dimmers will work with the LED if u go that route or vis vera. that's one of my issues that i need to sort out cause i have wave throughout my home. i have to find out from either company of they tested the leviton wave brand i use.

sorry if i confused u. i just thought i would throw it out there cause it does help to save space, especially height.

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post #38 of 207 Old 02-08-2012, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Not yet...still thinking about it. Trying to reconcile budget with requirements and waiting on some contractor quotes. The Fatshaft thread is giving me significant pause.
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post #39 of 207 Old 02-08-2012, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs691919 View Post

Not yet...still thinking about it. Trying to reconcile budget with requirements and waiting on some contractor quotes. The Fatshaft thread is giving me significant pause.

I was just there. . . i start framing this weekend. . . i'm kinda worried in the back of my head. don't know if I should be though.

jim
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post #40 of 207 Old 02-08-2012, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimim View Post

I just saw ur build. How r u doing with it? I'll be following. I saw some take regarding ur soffit. I just wanted to add something of interest that i just discovered and i'm using in my build to help save room. there are LED cans out (5-6 inch) that can fit in a jbox now. only 2.5" total depth and are IC rated for zero clearance. This is allowing me to put them in the same bays as my hvac flex when i decide if i'm going to give up headroom for a soffit or keep everything up in my joists. they are made by seagull lighting. there is also another company that HD is getting via web order only and they are glimpse from lighting science. the HD ones are ugh much cheaper but don't know if they are as good.

just an idea to throw ur way. also remember with LED dimming becomes an issue cause of the drivers LED uses. u have to make sure ur dimmers will work with the LED if u go that route or vis vera. that's one of my issues that i need to sort out cause i have wave throughout my home. i have to find out from either company of they tested the leviton wave brand i use.

sorry if i confused u. i just thought i would throw it out there cause it does help to save space, especially height.

jim

Thanks for the tip. I'm leaning towards the Grafik Eye...been doing some research on it. So do you just put putty pad over the j-box to prevent sound leakage?
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post #41 of 207 Old 02-08-2012, 10:26 AM
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Jim, do you have a model # of that Seagull light?

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post #42 of 207 Old 02-08-2012, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs691919 View Post

Thanks for the tip. I'm leaning towards the Grafik Eye...been doing some research on it. So do you just put putty pad over the j-box to prevent sound leakage?

Tedd can answer better but I would say yes or even a 3/4" MDF backer box. one layer should be fine from what I have been told. Tedd am i correct?

See links below. . .

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post #43 of 207 Old 02-08-2012, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
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Jim, do you have a model # of that Seagull light?

http://www.seagulllighting.com/28171...14600S-15.html

and

http://www.lsgc.com/interior_led_lighting/glimpse/

they look identical except the glimpse light has bulb choices for diff degrees or "warmness"

they are each 14 w which is the equal of 65 w 6" can bulb.

the seagull is selling around us at 100 a piece. ya i know crazy. the other i'm finding for about 60 but heard it's on HD website for 40? i didn't even look yet cause i'm not there yet, but deff know this is an option.

correct me if i'm wrong but u can pretty much slip those in a backer box up in a joist and still have way more than enough room for insulated 6 inch flex if u use the one with 1" insulation around it? is the 1" fine or is the thicker stuff recommended btw? or in a soffit u can even locate the flex and light now more easily without getting crazy with ur width if u don't want.

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Looks like a 4 x 4 junction box is all it takes. Not a big opening in the drywall. I'd just use 2 putty pads and call it a day.

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post #45 of 207 Old 02-08-2012, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs691919 View Post

Thanks, Dave. I did look closely at the rack thread but I think my questions are so neophyte that I couldn't find any answers.

For my purposes, it sounds like a relatively basic rack will be suitable. My main goal is to keep the cables neat and to be able to lock the front and rear doors. I'll post a quote from a local dealer later today...seemed a bit excessive to me. Looking at the Middle Atlantic site, I can't figure out what the "rear rail" kit is for. Nor can I figure out what the color-coded letters next to the power strip configurations mean.

Keep in mind that Mid Atlantic has stuff for all kind of pro stuff. Some of its real heavy duty. You can also scour craigslist for any computer and/or telecom rack and likely fit that in. Since some of the pro stuff can be real heavy some mid atlantic stuff can use extra rails for extra support, or to place wire management devices.

If you want to semi-cheap out, and don't find a steal on craigslist, you can do what I did in my first HT, and by those rear rails only for about $50 and then mount them to a planned opening. See this pic from my old HT.



Then add the rails, shelves and faceplates and you are done. I did this and then discovered if you buy a middle atlantic door, there door is meant to be mounted to a full rack, not just the rails. I had to jury-rig the door. At that point it would have been easier just to get a local glass place to come out and do something.

Here is a pic with the rails in, and a few items that had rack ears.



The other disadvantage of the "cheap" route is that I didn't have rear rails for wire management, so it was kind of kludge.

I probably could have and would have improved it had I not sold the place.



All in all, I was like $50 for rails, $325 for shelves, a drawer ($100 alone) and blanks, and I don't remember the door cost, and didn't see it in my e-mail. Must have been paypal.

I really liked having a rack-rack though. Even though it was only for a month or so.

On the sound proofing issue - That freak thread aside, most of us have been quite pleased. I was in the old space.
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post #46 of 207 Old 02-08-2012, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

Looks like a 4 x 4 junction box is all it takes. Not a big opening in the drywall. I'd just use 2 putty pads and call it a day.

that's good to know. they're nice aren't they? Major savings on space.

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I'm crossing my fingers that they drop in price in a year.

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post #48 of 207 Old 02-08-2012, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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The other disadvantage of the "cheap" route is that I didn't have rear rails for wire management, so it was kind of kludge.

So the rear rail kit for a Middle Atlantic is mostly used for cable management - any other reason to get it?

Anyone know what the color coded letters are on the MA link I posted above?
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post #49 of 207 Old 02-08-2012, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I was just there. . . i start framing this weekend. . . i'm kinda worried in the back of my head. don't know if I should be though.

jim

There's so much to learn and research - it's like building my house all over again! Thanks for the links on the LED lamps. Pricey, but could potentially save me labor time.
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post #50 of 207 Old 02-09-2012, 04:42 AM
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There's so much to learn and research - it's like building my house all over again! Thanks for the links on the LED lamps. Pricey, but could potentially save me labor time.

Remember the HD glimpse model is much much cheaper! I pulled both pdf's and they are exactly the same specs except for the bulbs. it really makes me think the seagull is a rebadged version of the glimpse cheaper model. we know audio video companies do this.

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post #51 of 207 Old 02-09-2012, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Remember the HD glimpse model is much much cheaper! I pulled both pdf's and they are exactly the same specs except for the bulbs. it really makes me think the seagull is a rebadged version of the glimpse cheaper model. we know audio video companies do this.

jim

No kidding, they prey on gullible customers (like me). Do you have a build thread btw?
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post #52 of 207 Old 02-09-2012, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs691919 View Post

So the rear rail kit for a Middle Atlantic is mostly used for cable management - any other reason to get it?

Anyone know what the color coded letters are on the MA link I posted above?

For some, yes, rear rails are places to mount cable management. For others they are extra supports to hold heavy amplifiers, power supplies, etc.

The alphabet soup is a creature of their product lines. The letters are usually related to a style of rack. The numbers, almost always are the number of spaces (1.75" high by 19" wide) are available.

Navigating their product line further is beyond my depth.
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post #53 of 207 Old 02-11-2012, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Soundproofing question

OK, I was standing in the unfinished theater space today trying to envision the construction process, and had a sudden fearful thought. If you look at the blueprint for the space below:




Notice that there is a metal I-beam with a metal pipe support which I am going work around.



In my rudimentary floorplan, the metal pipe stands in the dead space between the two proposed decoupled walls (red circle):




So my question is: will that metal pipe conduct sound into the theater, if it is inside that dead space? And if so, would it make sense to build the double stud wall on the "south side" of the pipe so that it is entirely outside of the two studs?
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post #54 of 207 Old 02-11-2012, 05:46 PM
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If the support is between the walls I don't see how it would hurt sound isolation. Make sure no part of the walls come in contact with it to preserve decoupling. Also when you put insulation in make sure to not compress it against the support to avoid recoupling the wall through the fiberglass.

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post #55 of 207 Old 02-12-2012, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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If the support is between the walls I don't see how it would hurt sound isolation. Make sure no part of the walls come in contact with it to preserve decoupling. Also when you put insulation in make sure to not compress it against the support to avoid recoupling the wall through the fiberglass.

OK, that's good news. Thanks!
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post #56 of 207 Old 02-12-2012, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
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OK, that's good news. Thanks!

How far apart are the two walls going to be to accommodate the post? Were you going to space them out around it or cut a curve in the top and bottom plate to fit it? Either way would be fine. The second option might give you a little more space.

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How far apart are the two walls going to be to accommodate the post? Were you going to space them out around it or cut a curve in the top and bottom plate to fit it? Either way would be fine. The second option might give you a little more space.

Actually, the two stud walls are going to be about 2 feet apart. The reason for this is that I'm going to extend the already finished wall into the unfinished basement, and then enclose the HVAC unit and water heater so my son can't get to them. I figured that the bigger the air cavity, the better the sound attenuation.
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Quote:
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Actually, the two stud walls are going to be about 2 feet apart. The reason for this is that I'm going to extend the already finished wall into the unfinished basement, and then enclose the HVAC unit and water heater so my son can't get to them. I figured that the bigger the air cavity, the better the sound attenuation.

Don't know if you've already talked to someone about this but that 2 foot space is a concern.

If the walls are that far apart then you will need to treat that 2 foot space like a seperate room. That distance isn't really room within a room but more like another room. Sound will shoot through your first wall and head right up through the floor between the walls. The walls should not be very far apart. 1 maybe 2 inches at most.

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post #59 of 207 Old 02-12-2012, 02:57 PM
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Equipment
I have none, except for my Xbox 360 which is primarily used to play Lego Star Wars and Lego Harry Potter. Any advice/thoughts would be appreciated.

1) Projector/lens - I do like the LCOS projectors such as the JVC RS45, but is it bright enough for a throw distance of about 17'? Will I have pincushioning at that distance? Recommendations on anamorphic lenses?

2) Screen - Stewart/Dalite/SMX??? This will be my first projector setup, so I am by no means an expert in the optics. I do want a masking system, and Stewart is obviously at the top of the price list...but is the quality of the other brands good enough?

3) Audio -- separates vs. AVR. Are separates overkill?

4) Speakers -- dipoles for the surrounds? That would be my preference, but is that an uniformed bias? Any suggestions for brands? I have looked at the B&W CT series but I think they only have monopoles for the surrounds. Also have looked into Klipsch THX Ultra II -- their surrounds appear to be dipoles. Any other speakers I should be looking into?

Well, that's all that I can think of for the moment though there will be more questions to come! Please chime in!


1) I've owned LCOS and LCD and I definitely prefer LCOS. I've never owned a DLP however and it certainly has its loyal following. You may want to check out some of those as well.

2) Stewart is cosidered the reference but yes you do pay for it. Never owned a Stewart, but Dennis Erskine uses them so they must be good. If you've got the money then that's what I would get.

3) Overkill is a term that you should erase from your vocabulary. But no, separates would not be overkill. Once you make the jump from an AVR to separates, you'll never go back. If you're looking to purchase Klipsch THX Ultra speakers, then an AVR will simply not suffice.

4) I'm an M&K fan myself. Not sure what the budget is, but I've never heard anyone say anything negative about them. My neighbor actually prefers my M&K THX select system to his Monitor Audio Silver Series. M&K is the brand of speaker that was used for mixing at least one Star Wars movie and many other big budget films so I will definitely recommend giving them a listen. I'm sure Moggie can tell you all about the Klipsch THX speakers and I'm sure they are awesome even though I've never actually heard them.

Of course the most important issue, and one that I think everyone has already informed you of, is making sure you acoustically treat your room. $10,000 worth of speakers will not sound like $10,000 if you don't ensure the room is treated properly. And the $600 design service from Dennis Erskine sounds like a really good investment. I think he covers alot of the acoustical stuff.
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post #60 of 207 Old 02-12-2012, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaustin View Post

Don't know if you've already talked to someone about this but that 2 foot space is a concern.

If the walls are that far apart then you will need to treat that 2 foot space like a seperate room. That distance isn't really room within a room but more like another room. Sound will shoot through your first wall and head right up through the floor between the walls. The walls should not be very far apart. 1 maybe 2 inches at most.

Hmmm...ok, thanks for the warning. I will look into that. Gonna be working with bpape on the design, so I will run it by him. The pipe and I-beam are problems then -- the beam is about five inches wide off the top of my head. I will measure the exact distance later. I have plenty of width in the theater I think, so if I have to make it narrower, I don't think it would be a big problem.
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