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post #271 of 1360 Old 03-13-2012, 07:04 PM
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post #272 of 1360 Old 03-13-2012, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemogoblin View Post

I'm having this strange problem where most of the .m2ts files are skipping during playback. I can play other .m2ts and lots of mkv's fine but for some reason these files cant play. This is playing directly from the stream folder. I have turned the disks into iso's and tried to mount and view that way, but for some reason I cant play the iso's either.

I also have a PS3 and am thinking of just transfering them over to that for now. Any suggestions on what I can use to possibly convert the m2ts to a another format somehow? Any ideas why these files might be stuttering for me?

I dont have any dvd+dl media right now either, but thats probably the route I go.

You don't mention the playback software you're using. These are serious files, and need serious hardware and software for playback.
TsMuxeR will convert them. Free and (reasonably) straightforward.

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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

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post #273 of 1360 Old 03-13-2012, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post

is there any way to watch this material without burning to DVDs? like mounting to virtual drives (via PowerISO or similar software?)

i'd love to be able to sample this stuff and play it from my computer and output it to my receiver over HDMI.

incidentally, if i play files on my computer and output to my receiver over HDMI, does the computer output the original signal and allow the receiver to handle the processing or is a crappy onboard soundcard going to screw it up?

VLC media player will play the individual tracks. You probably want the computer to bitstream (send the data unconverted) to your receiver, which probably has much better decoding capabilities.

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post #274 of 1360 Old 03-14-2012, 07:32 AM
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I'm having a similar issue with stuttering playback, except I am using a DVD+R DL and PS3 (no streaming).

Its strange, I loaded up the Bass Disc and the Flight of the Phoenix played just fine, but then the Master & Commander clip started stuttering half-way through and wouldn't play audio to the end. Cloverfield was the most strange and while stuttering, also sounded extremely distorted, like the sound was corrupted or something.

I also tried the Surround disc. Again Tron played fine, but then when I tried the Transformers clip, it started stuttering after the first 30 seconds (and subsequently the sound drops out). The GI Joe clip did the same thing except almost immediately.

My guess is that its not able to read from the disc fast enough, which is strange considering that I'm using Verbatim discs which never gave me any trouble under any other application. I'll try streaming the same clips from my HTPC tonight to see if I encounter the same issue. I'll also run a PI error test on the discs as well to see how good (or bad) they turned out.

If anyone has any other insight or suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
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post #275 of 1360 Old 03-14-2012, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Axle- View Post

I'm having a similar issue with stuttering playback, except I am using a DVD+R DL and PS3 (no streaming).

...

If anyone has any other insight or suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

This was exactly the challenge with this project, that some players will not play the DVD DL media correctly and the most infamous one IS... the PS3.

Have you tried the disc with the patched files? That might help but is not a guarantee.

Also, is my experience that the PS3 will not play the m2ts files directly, these need to be TS files. I think LastButNotLeast (Michael) suggested a few posts back what to do with these files.

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post #276 of 1360 Old 03-14-2012, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Axle- View Post

I'm having a similar issue with stuttering playback, except I am using a DVD+R DL and PS3 (no streaming).

Its strange, I loaded up the Bass Disc and the Flight of the Phoenix played just fine, but then the Master & Commander clip started stuttering half-way through and wouldn't play audio to the end. Cloverfield was the most strange and while stuttering, also sounded extremely distorted, like the sound was corrupted or something.

I also tried the Surround disc. Again Tron played fine, but then when I tried the Transformers clip, it started stuttering after the first 30 seconds (and subsequently the sound drops out). The GI Joe clip did the same thing except almost immediately.

My guess is that its not able to read from the disc fast enough, which is strange considering that I'm using Verbatim discs which never gave me any trouble under any other application. I'll try streaming the same clips from my HTPC tonight to see if I encounter the same issue. I'll also run a PI error test on the discs as well to see how good (or bad) they turned out.

If anyone has any other insight or suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

To keep a technical post simple,

On a DVD disc the bits of information are larger in physical size than they are on a Blu-ray. 1x speed of DVD media is 11Mb/sec. 1x speed of Bluray media is 36Mb/sec. More than 3x faster than DVD. This means that your PS3 will have to spin the DVD at a rate of more than 3x faster just to play the same content that would otherwise be on a Bluray disc.

That said, the 36MB/sec rate of Bluray 1x was an early spec, many movies exceed this bitrate, (many have peak speeds in the 40 to 50MB range) thus most Bluray players are designed to run at least 2x speed. That means during these specific scenes the DVD in your PS3 will be trying to spin at 5x to 6x the rate just to keep up.

An additional problem then occurs with where on the disc you are currently reading from. The outside of the disc can be spun slower (think circumference) than the inside of the disc. The inside of the disc probably needs (not caring to look up the exact circumference of a disc to do the math) to spin at least 2x fast as the outside of the disc to get the same rate.

So, what you're reporting is that some clips are playing and others aren't. Those that are playing are likely placed physically towards the outside of the disc whereas those that aren't are closer to the inside. Combine that with the probability that some that aren't playing may have peak bitrates that exceed the disc's ability to delivery the content.

The PS3 was an early Bluray player and doesn't have the fastest drive.

If it were me and you want to avoid your PS3 drive wearing out, I wouldn't play a BD-9 disc like this. The drive is likely spinning the disc as fast as it possibly can trying to keep up.

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post #277 of 1360 Old 03-14-2012, 09:46 AM
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First, thank you both superleo and scubasteve for your help.

@scubasteve - I was thinking the same. I didn't have much time to tinker last night and was also tempted to burn the BD9 to a BD-R disc, but obviously hesitated due to not wanting to waste them. Looks like I may have to go that route though. I believe someone mentioned earlier how to merge multiple BD9's into a single disc so I'll have to look into that (so I don't go wasting more discs than necessary). I could wait for the full BD50, but those are harder to come by than BD25, so I'd rather make 2 or 3 discs if possible. Or I could just go out and buy a BD DL disc but I'd rather only do that once I'm absolutely sure the BD-R's work ok.

@superleo - I did indeed read the first post and fair warnings about the Sony (PS3) and Panasonic players. I also made sure to swap out the 2 files (index and another name that escapes me ATM) before burning them in UDF 2.5 mode. I'll have to look into the whole m2ts respect of things as I was not aware. I'll look up Michael's (LastButNotLeast) posts to see what I can do.

Once again, thank you both for your help, much appreciated.
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post #278 of 1360 Old 03-14-2012, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Axle,

I wouldn't know the prices of media in Canada, but here in the States you can get BD25 for $1.25 per disc. If you have a BD burner you can burn the discs to BD25s and they will play in any Bluray player with no problem or of course wait for the full BD50.

Now if you want to be really extreme, take your BD9 to an electronic store and test the disc to see what players will play it... then buy that player.

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post #279 of 1360 Old 03-14-2012, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

You don't mention the playback software you're using. These are serious files, and need serious hardware and software for playback.
TsMuxeR will convert them. Free and (reasonably) straightforward.

Sorry, I am using it through MediaPortal and have tried VLC and MPC-HC. Its definitely my PC being too slow. I just think its weird that I can play other mkv/m2ts 1080p DTS files but not these.

Im going to try and transfer the files over to my PS3 and hope that solves everything.
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post #280 of 1360 Old 03-14-2012, 03:04 PM
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You may still want to try tsMuxeR. You may need to downconvert the audio. Try saving as .ts files.
Good luck, and keep us posted. Obviously, this is a common problem (and it doesn't look like your PS3 is the solution).
Michael

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/tsMuxeR

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post #281 of 1360 Old 03-15-2012, 07:29 AM
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So I got some time to sit down and copy some of the files over to my HTPC yesterday.

Its looking very likely to be the discs, as streaming directly from my HDD had zero issues. I also tried running a test on the disc and my DVD drives were only starting at around 3X and picking up to 5X in the middle.

I'll try and tinker some more tonight and give an update.
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post #282 of 1360 Old 03-15-2012, 11:14 AM
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Has anyone tried to play these BD9s on a Sony BDP-S550?
I had some from a previous time a year ago or so , from someone else, that would not play at all on the BDP-S550 .
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post #283 of 1360 Old 03-15-2012, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey9hound View Post

Has anyone tried to play these BD9s on a Sony BDP-S550?
I had some from a previous time a year ago or so , from someone else, that would not play at all on the DBP-S550 .

Not exactly the same model, but the discs have worked fine on my Sony S570 (actually Costco model, the BX57, but it's just a rebadged S570 with a bundled HDMI cable).
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post #284 of 1360 Old 03-16-2012, 06:51 AM
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My Sony S550 was able to load and play the BASS disc (burned to DL DVD+R BD9) as an AVCHD/DVD-ROM. It buffers/stutters on many of the clips when the bitrate is above ~20mbps. I burned patched and unpatched discs - in both cases the top level menu and pop-up menu worked fine.

If you want to play the demo disc on this player I would suggest burning it to bluray media.
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post #285 of 1360 Old 03-16-2012, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbitrageur View Post

My Sony S550 was able to load and play the BASS disc (burned to DL DVD+R BD9) as an AVCHD/DVD-ROM. It buffers/stutters on many of the clips when the bitrate is above ~20mbps. I burned patched and unpatched discs - in both cases the top level menu and pop-up menu worked fine.

If you want to play the demo disc on this player I would suggest burning it to bluray media.

Thank you for that info.
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post #286 of 1360 Old 03-16-2012, 10:42 PM
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I've had a bit of trouble with some playing issues on my Oppo bdp 83, where I get some stuttering on the menu of the first disc, and playback on the lfe disc.
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post #287 of 1360 Old 03-17-2012, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Had some time to test the volume levels of the Music disc yesterday.

I set the receiver at reference level, -10db on my Onkyo 805, the volume level at peak levels on all the tracks are very close between them, if anything there is a difference on the amount of bass between the tracks, but I would attribute this to the sound mixing not the actual sound track.

The track that is mixed at a noticeable lower bass is I'm still standing, but this is only noticeable when compared to the other tracks and specially compared to the Baby track that is mixed on the opposite side of the bass spectrum, but I would say that even though it has more bass is sharp and not overpowering over the music. Even the classical piece from Fantasia 200, comes out sharp and the piano is clear but not overshadowing the other instruments, very nice at reference volume levels.

I'm sure these may be different depending on how individual audio conditions are set for different rooms but the overall levels and mixing are similar, at least in my testing.

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post #288 of 1360 Old 03-17-2012, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

Had some time to test the volume levels of the Music disc yesterday.

I set the receiver at reference level, -10db on my Onkyo 805, the volume level at peak levels on all the tracks are very close between them, if anything there is a difference on the amount of bass between the tracks, but I would attribute this to the sound mixing not the actual sound track.

The track that is mixed at a noticeable lower bass is I'm still standing, but this is only noticeable when compared to the other tracks and specially compared to the Baby track that is mixed on the opposite side of the bass spectrum, but I would say that even though it has more bass is sharp and not overpowering over the music. Even the classical piece from Fantasia 200, comes out sharp and the piano is clear but not overshadowing the other instruments, very nice at reference volume levels.

I'm sure these may be different depending on how individual audio conditions are set for different rooms but the overall levels and mixing are similar, at least in my testing.

Did you see my comment on the subject? What about at non-reference level. Lower levels should let see the differences better if you're using the old trusty analog RadioShack meter.

Regardless the two should be exactly the same which was not the case in my situation.

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post #289 of 1360 Old 03-18-2012, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubasteve2365 View Post

Did you see my comment on the subject? What about at non-reference level. Lower levels should let see the differences better if you're using the old trusty analog RadioShack meter.

Regardless the two should be exactly the same which was not the case in my situation.

I remember someone asking about it in the original thread but I don't remember you testing both clips, the demo clip vs the original.

I don't see any difference on the clips that I tested. if some one finds a difference on their clips I would attribute it to their individual setup or equipment, although as you mentioned, in some audio mixes there must be something extra that by demuxing the audio from the video looses the header/marker as you found on your test.

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post #290 of 1360 Old 03-19-2012, 11:23 AM
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Ok my hard drive on my PC is so full now ...Yikes . I was waiting to try to burn to Blu-ray but it looks like i am not going to purchase a Blu-ray burner anytime soon.
Is anyone up to the task of Burning these 4 to Blu-rayfor me for a small reward .
Please pm me if so .
Thanks
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post #291 of 1360 Old 03-19-2012, 11:34 AM
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I think this has been fairly well sorted by a couple of previous posts, but the bottom line is that anything with a bitrate above 18mbps is going to stutter using DVDs with BD9 format. I'm sure there is some room for differences in players, but doubt you will find any player playing clips smoothly if the clip is above 20mbps using BD9. Your only real option is to skip those or burn them to BD25/BD50.

All of the clips people are reporting issues on are above 18mbps. Some of the clips are all the way to the max xfer speed of BR at 40 Mbps (the Beiber clip on the music disc for example. "Leave it to Beiber" to push the envelope. :-)

My theater build isn't going slow, I'm just pacing myself until technology catches up with me.

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post #292 of 1360 Old 03-19-2012, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinfari View Post

I think this has been fairly well sorted by a couple of previous posts, but the bottom line is that anything with a bitrate above 18mbps is going to stutter using DVDs with BD9 format. I'm sure there is some room for differences in players, but doubt you will find any player playing clips smoothly if the clip is above 20mbps using BD9. Your only real option is to skip those or burn them to BD25/BD50.

All of the clips people are reporting issues on are above 18mbps. Some of the clips are all the way to the max xfer speed of BR at 40 Mbps (the Beiber clip on the music disc for example. "Leave it to Beiber" to push the envelop. :-)

Not entirely, I can say with 100% assurance that my Magnavox and Insignia players play all the clips directly from BD9s with no problem whatsoever, and as far as I know the Oppo 95 too.

I could not tell you why some players play fine and others don't but there are some players that actually play these discs fine.

Its discouraging not knowing for sure if a player will play these or not, but the DVD+DL media is fairly inexpensive and mostly everyone now a days have a DVD burner, so to spend $15 to $20 to test these might not be to bad after all, even if the discs don't work on your player.

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post #293 of 1360 Old 03-19-2012, 01:56 PM
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My understanding is that BD9 has a maximum supported bitrate of 18 Mbps (or roughly 2x disc speed). Your player may have electronics that would allow for a higher supported bitrate, but that would be outside of the "spec". I put "spec" in quotes because I can't find the actual "spec" anywhere to reference. I'm sure there are folks out that that could point in the right direction for supporting (or mythbusting) documentation.

There are a number of various forums out there that have had the 18mbps limit documented for years, but again I can't find the Patient Zero documentation to support just lots of observed behavior.

I'm sure it's simple mathematics and that the initial spec didn't dictate that the BD drives had anything more than 2x for rotational speed to account for internal vs. external tracks. Some of the future specs call for as much as 8x speeds so eventually we'll be looking at 320mpbs so I'm guessing some players are just capable of more than the 2x rotational speed (like yours), but it's not required by the current spec so not everyone has it.

My theater build isn't going slow, I'm just pacing myself until technology catches up with me.

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post #294 of 1360 Old 03-19-2012, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey9hound View Post

Ok my hard drive on my PC is so full now ...Yikes . I was waiting to try to burn to Blu-ray but it looks like i am not going to purchase a Blu-ray burner anytime soon.
Is anyone up to the task of Burning these 4 to Blu-rayfor me for a small reward .
Please pm me if so .
Thanks

The whole point to these is that they should fit on a DVD-DL. Good chance that they will play fine on your player. Should at least try with one.

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post #295 of 1360 Old 03-19-2012, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinfari View Post

My understanding is that BD9 has a maximum supported bitrate of 18 Mbps (or roughly 2x disc speed). Your player may have electronics that would allow for a higher supported bitrate, but that would be outside of the "spec". I put "spec" in quotes because I can't find the actual "spec" anywhere to reference. I'm sure there are folks out that that could point in the right direction for supporting (or mythbusting) documentation.

There are a number of various forums out there that have had the 18mbps limit documented for years, but again I can't find the Patient Zero documentation to support just lots of observed behavior.

I'm sure it's simple mathematics and that the initial spec didn't dictate that the BD drives had anything more than 2x for rotational speed to account for internal vs. external tracks. Some of the future specs call for as much as 8x speeds so eventually we'll be looking at 320mpbs so I'm guessing some players are just capable of more than the 2x rotational speed (like yours), but it's not required by the current spec so not everyone has it.

Do you mean DVD9? Bluray has supported 40+ mbps from the start.
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post #296 of 1360 Old 03-19-2012, 04:40 PM
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Do you mean DVD9? Bluray has supported 40+ mbps from the start.

Yea, I was referring to the use of DVD9 as a source for blu-ray content (i.e. BD9) I agree true BD media has supported 40Mbps from the start.

My theater build isn't going slow, I'm just pacing myself until technology catches up with me.

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post #297 of 1360 Old 03-19-2012, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

The whole point to these is that they should fit on a DVD-DL. Good chance that they will play fine on your player. Should at least try with one.

And that's just what they do... fit on to DVD-DL.

Mine has a stuttering issue on some tracks, but fine on the others. I assume that my Oppo 83 doesn't buffer enough to get past that, at least on DVD media.

Catch is that I don't seem to be able to get BD50 media nearby, BD25 is easy to get though. Have to keep looking I guess.
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post #298 of 1360 Old 03-19-2012, 06:26 PM
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0blank%20media

Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #299 of 1360 Old 03-19-2012, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0blank%20media

Or Amazon, but given that bpratt2 is in Australia, I suspect it's not quite as easy for him. Still, he should be able to order them from somewhere.
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post #300 of 1360 Old 03-19-2012, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalani View Post

Or Amazon, but given that bpratt2 is in Australia, I suspect it's not quite as easy for him. Still, he should be able to order them from somewhere.

That's right, in the USA it might be very easy to get them, but I can't just walk in to a shop to buy the BD50's just yet..... shouldn't be long before they are just as available as DVD's, but not quite yet.

Thanks for the link.
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