Building my Baffle Wall in 7 steps....am I missing anything? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 41 Old 02-04-2012, 04:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Getting started on building my baffle wall. Currently, front wall of dedicated theater room almost 13 ft wide (12 ft 10") and is drywall.

Step 1 - Gluing Ultratouch denim insulation 3.5 " (www.bondedlogic.com) to entire front wall and the ceiling behind baffle wall.

Step 2 - Covering Ultratouch entirely in JH Insul-shield black 1"
http://jm.com/insulation/building_in...sul-shield.pdf

Step 3 - Building out frame.

Step 4 - Mounting to front of frame 10 ft wide by 4 feet high ¾ mdf and cover that in 1" JH-Insul shield black. Exposed areas of frame are filled with the 3.5" ultratouch insulation and spray painted black.

Step 5 - Mounting all 3 front speakers in mdf frame so that tweeter is approx 45" from the floor which will be approx 1/3rd up from the acoustically transparent screen. Left and right speakers will be approx 8 feet apart (which is approx 2.5 feet in from each side wall).

Step 6 - Building out frame another 4 inches and attach screen.

Step 7 - Covering exposed areas around frame with black Mellotone speaker grill fabric and outlining that in 1/4-1/2" dark cherry wood molding.

And that's it.

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post #2 of 41 Old 02-04-2012, 04:31 AM
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Some but not all sources state that step 4 needs to be as rigid as possible and floor to ceiling, wall to wall. Rigid being defined as multiple layers. I think I've read about using Green Glue as well.

The type of screen/speakers you choose may have associated speaker face to screen surface spacing. It's not clear if yours is 4 or 7 1/2 from your step 6 comment.
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post #3 of 41 Old 02-04-2012, 04:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Some but not all sources state that step 4 needs to be as rigid as possible and floor to ceiling, wall to wall. Rigid being defined as multiple layers. I think I've read about using Green Glue as well.

I understand. I was told the opposite -- not to make an entire wall of mdf. I am using Green Glue to double drywall the rest of the room. I guess I can use the Green Glue to glue the 1" insul black to the front of the mdf. i'll ask the Green glue company -- they are extremely helpful and knowledgeable in this area.

Quote:


The type of screen/speakers you choose may have associated speaker face to screen surface spacing. It's not clear if yours is 4 or 7 1/2 from your step 6 comment.

I only need 1-2 inches between the speakers and Seymour AV screen. In this case, the distance between step 5 (speakers mounted in mdf frame) and step 6 (frame in front of mdf) will be 4 inches.

Appreciate the response, thanks.

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post #4 of 41 Old 02-04-2012, 07:50 AM
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Adz523;
Do you have a build thread?
I'd like to see pictures of your baffle wall build.


I'm looking at doing same 2014, thx.

btw, BigDC/others;
is there a "show me your baffle wall" thread?

I know we have this thread, Show us your screen walls
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post #5 of 41 Old 02-04-2012, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adz523 View Post

I guess I can use the Green Glue to glue the 1" insul black to the front of the mdf. i'll ask the Green glue company -- they are extremely helpful and knowledgeable in this area.

No Green Glue is not a glue. it is only effective in dampening an assembly when used between two rigid layers. Insul Black is not rigid.
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post #6 of 41 Old 02-04-2012, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

No Green Glue is not a glue. it is only effective in dampening an assembly when used between two rigid layers. Insul Black is not rigid.

Exactly on the money.

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post #7 of 41 Old 02-04-2012, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

No Green Glue is not a glue. it is only effective in dampening an assembly when used between two rigid layers. Insul Black is not rigid.

Oh right, they told me you can use the sealant.

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post #8 of 41 Old 02-04-2012, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Adz523;
Do you have a build thread?
I'd like to see pictures of your baffle wall build.


I'm looking at doing same 2014, thx.

Sorry, I don't but will post pics here after each step.

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post #9 of 41 Old 02-04-2012, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adz523 View Post

Oh right, they told me you can use the sealant.

They should have told you to use Green Glue to damp, Sealant to seal, and adhesive to glue.

Sealant is not an appropriate adhesive for anything, and much less expensive products are available that are actually designed for this function.

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post #10 of 41 Old 02-04-2012, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adz523 View Post


Sorry, I don't but will post pics here after each step.

Thx, that's helpful for me and others here.
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post #11 of 41 Old 02-04-2012, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

They should have told you to use Green Glue to damp, Sealant to seal, and adhesive to glue.

Sealant is not an appropriate adhesive for anything, and much less expensive products are available that are actually designed for this function.

To be fair, let me elaborate. What u said is what Green Glue said, but I have an extra tube and a half of sealant and no other purpose so I was told instead on wasting money on more glue, just use the sealant and it will do the job. But if you're saying it won't, then maybe they are wrong and I'll buy more glue.

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post #12 of 41 Old 02-04-2012, 05:55 PM
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Why the denim and InsulShield? Seems redundant. You just need to fill the cavity to reduce resonances. Why denim? fiberglass would do the job too.

Wall should be as a stiff as possible. MDF and 2 layers of drywall with green glue in between. Cover with 1"-2" black 1.5pcf fiberglass to absorb reflections back off the screen.

Do you know where your speakers are going? If crossing at 80Hz, then keep them at least 3.5' from the side walls to prevent a cancellation from occurring. Subs may want to be kept within 3.5' of sidewalls for same reason, to keep the notch outside of their range.

Are the speakers crossed over for a baffle wall? Baffle step correction is applied to most speakers to account for the bass loss from a free standing speaker cabinet. Even some in-wall units may not have the proper crossover.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBoomer View Post

Why the denim and InsulShield? Seems redundant. You just need to fill the cavity to reduce resonances. Why denim? fiberglass would do the job too.

Wall should be as a stiff as possible. MDF and 2 layers of drywall with green glue in between. Cover with 1"-2" black 1.5pcf fiberglass to absorb reflections back off the screen.

Do you know where your speakers are going? If crossing at 80Hz, then keep them at least 3.5' from the side walls to prevent a cancellation from occurring. Subs may want to be kept within 3.5' of sidewalls for same reason, to keep the notch outside of their range.

Are the speakers crossed over for a baffle wall? Baffle step correction is applied to most speakers to account for the bass loss from a free standing speaker cabinet. Even some in-wall units may not have the proper crossover.

The insul shield is only 1" thick, not gonna absorb much with that but its jet black. Great tips, thanks!

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post #14 of 41 Old 02-05-2012, 07:39 PM
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I just didn't understand InsulShield for Step 2, presumably inside the baffle wall and Step 4 on the outside of the wall.

Another thing to consider is 2x1" OC703 inside the wall separated by 3mil poly to help absorb lower frequencies.

Depending on speakers, 2x1" layers of InsulShield would be on the front of the wall separated with 3mil poly to help absorb lower frequencies.
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Some general points:

If your speakers are rear ported don't even think of doing this without some qualified professional input.

If your speakers are not designed (or intended) for use in a baffle wall, don't even think of doing this without some qualified professional input and be prepared to spend $$$ on an appropriate EQ device (and something like Audyssey ain't it).

The baffle wall must be very rigid and of high mass.

The cavity behind the baffle wall must be designed to prevent resonance in the cavity.

The face of the baffle wall must have a 1" layer of a matte black absorptive material such as InsulShield Black (you will have a high frequency reflection from the back side of the screen to the baffle wall and you do need to kill this.

Just because some people have used a baffle wall doesn't mean it is appropriate for use in your room with your speakers.

Here is a caveat ... "these are professionals, don't try this at home..." Baffle walls can do one of two things: (1) significantly improve your sound quality, or; (2) significantly degrade your sound quality. Rolling the dice will not work out in your favor. Mr. Murphy is present at all baffle wall construction sites.

Dennis Erskine CFI, CFII, MEI
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post #16 of 41 Old 02-06-2012, 06:28 AM
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I have been unable to find any article describing the suitable speaker characteristics for in baffle use. Perhaps someone would be willing to explain or provide a link to the research, I did find the attached article that describes a bit of the science and thinking between free standing and in-wall placement.

http://www.genelec.com/learning-cent...lush-mounting/
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post #17 of 41 Old 02-06-2012, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adz523 View Post

... I was told instead on wasting money on more glue, just use the sealant and it will do the job. But if you're saying it won't, then maybe they are wrong and I'll buy more glue.

You don't need sealant to glue or damping compounds to glue. Spray adhesive, etc is in order. Or Liquid Nails, etc.

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post #18 of 41 Old 02-06-2012, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRBoomer View Post

I just didn't understand InsulShield for Step 2, presumably inside the baffle wall and Step 4 on the outside of the wall.

Another thing to consider is 2x1" OC703 inside the wall separated by 3mil poly to help absorb lower frequencies.

Depending on speakers, 2x1" layers of InsulShield would be on the front of the wall separated with 3mil poly to help absorb lower frequencies.

The coated black Isul shield for step 2 was just to cover the ultratouch so that the entire front wall inside the cavity is now black. It also adds another 1 inch of sound absorption so existing wall is covered in 4.5".

Again, as I stated, the black insul shield will also be used on the front of the mdf baffle wall.

Thanks for the tips.

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post #19 of 41 Old 02-06-2012, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

You don't need sealant to glue or damping compounds to glue. Spray adhesive, etc is in order. Or Liquid Nails, etc.

Ok, thanks. I will do that. What about using it for gluing the ultratouch boards to my existing front wall which is drywall- its sort of two rigid layers?

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post #20 of 41 Old 02-06-2012, 09:15 AM
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Well, there would not be any appreciable damping possible there, so no need for a damping compound. I would use a simple drywall adhesive from Liquid Nails or such.

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post #21 of 41 Old 02-06-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:


The coated black Isul shield for step 2 was just to cover the ultratouch so that the entire front wall inside the cavity is now black. It also adds another 1 inch of sound absorption so existing wall is covered in 4.5".

Again, as I stated, the black insul shield will also be used on the front of the mdf baffle wall.

What would you suppose the reason might be to have "black" on the back side of a sealed baffle wall? Would there be any light there? Would any light from the back side of a sealed baffle wall illuminate the back side of the screen?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

Some general points:

If your speakers are rear ported don't even think of doing this without some qualified professional input.

If your speakers are not designed (or intended) for use in a baffle wall, don't even think of doing this without some qualified professional input and be prepared to spend $$$ on an appropriate EQ device (and something like Audyssey ain't it).

The baffle wall must be very rigid and of high mass.

The cavity behind the baffle wall must be designed to prevent resonance in the cavity.

The face of the baffle wall must have a 1" layer of a matte black absorptive material such as InsulShield Black (you will have a high frequency reflection from the back side of the screen to the baffle wall and you do need to kill this.

Just because some people have used a baffle wall doesn't mean it is appropriate for use in your room with your speakers.

Here is a caveat ... "these are professionals, don't try this at home..." Baffle walls can do one of two things: (1) significantly improve your sound quality, or; (2) significantly degrade your sound quality. Rolling the dice will not work out in your favor. Mr. Murphy is present at all baffle wall construction sites.

Thanks Dennis. Speakers are not rear ported and confirmed are designed for a baffle wall.

As I mentioned in step 4, I am using the JM Insul shield coated black to cover the baffle wall.

As for your point about being rigid and high mass -- is 3/4" mdf not enough? If not, then how much thickness is?

I didnt just come up with this myself and reading online. It was primarily from 3 very experienced professionals (similar to yourself) who also post on AVS.

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Quote:


As for your point about being rigid and high mass -- is 3/4" mdf not enough? If not, then how much thickness is?

Perhaps this should have been pointed out to you by the other professionals.
Whether or not your framing plan and use of 3/4" MDF is sufficient will depend on mass and the forces applied to the speaker cabinet by the drivers.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

Well, there would not be any appreciable damping possible there, so no need for a damping compound. I would use a simple drywall adhesive from Liquid Nails or such.

Thanks

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

What would you suppose the reason might be to have "black" on the back side of a sealed baffle wall? Would there be any light there? Would any light from the back side of a sealed baffle wall illuminate the back side of the screen?

The mdf is only about 4 feet by 12 feet, so top and bottom of frame is open to original front wall. Screen is almost 6 feet in width.

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post #26 of 41 Old 02-06-2012, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

Perhaps this should have been pointed out to you by the other professionals.
Whether or not your framing plan and use of 3/4" MDF is sufficient will depend on mass and the forces applied to the speaker cabinet by the drivers.

Right that was indirectly in the discussion so I guess 3/4" will do it, but I just WILL pick up 1" boards. Thanks for the help.

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post #27 of 41 Old 02-06-2012, 09:41 AM
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Not the best plan.

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post #28 of 41 Old 02-06-2012, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Not the best plan.


I guess I'm an underachiever......which aspect bothers u the most?

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post #29 of 41 Old 02-06-2012, 12:17 PM
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Building an S class Mercedes with only three wheels I don't believe would be classified as underachievement.

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post #30 of 41 Old 02-06-2012, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Building an S class Mercedes with only three wheels I don't believe would be classified as underachievement.

Thanks, that was helpful. I'll make sure to call YOU when my theater sounds like sh#t.

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