Platon with roofing paper and vaporblock subfloor??? - AVS Forum
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello, new here. I have lurked on this website for quite some time and have gained an extreme amount of knowledge from this place thus far. Well its time to start my own project now. I am going with the Platon underlayment product, with a vaporblock vapor barrier but I also picked up some 30lb roofing paper for an extra layer and some sound deadening as far as the floor goes so it won't sound hollow when you walk across it. Then I will lay down 3/4" tongue and groove OSB, then a laminate floor quiet walk underlayment and then Laminate flooring. About 750sqft.

My question is do I install the roofing paper over the vapor block or on top of the Platon underlayment? (ontop of concrete in the basement)

I would think ontop of the vapor barrier because the plastic Platon will click onto the concrete through the vaporblock barrier. But how will it hold up underneath the Plaston dimples and the 3/4" OSB ontop of it Tapcon screwed onto the concrete.

I will probably have quite a few more questions specific to this build as I go along so I hope I can turn to you guys for answers, pointers, help, advice, criticism, etc...








Pay no attention to the vintage cafe racer show bike in the background :P it is not part of this build. Also the pipe shelving liquor cabinet I started building is not finished yet. Pay no attention to that either

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Old 02-08-2012, 01:19 PM
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I used Delta FL which is similar to the Platon. I used weedblock fabric underneath the platon just to prevent any clicking sounds. My understanding is the Platon acts as a vapor barrier so I'm not sure what you would be using the roofing paper for. I do not think I would want roofing paper underneath the Platon because it will not hold up as well to moisture. That floor looks like it has a slope down to the drain. How are you going to handle the drain?
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:22 PM
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One additional thing - I put up the walls before the subfloor. Should you have a flood in the basement that goes higher than the platon, it would be easier to remove the subfloor if it is not under the walls. - I think Logan can chime in on that one. He had to cut his floor out because the walls were built on it.
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Old 02-08-2012, 01:23 PM
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Check with Platon, I don't recall seeing tar paper used in the manner you suggest. I've seen it between the OSB and solid hardwood floors. But you are not using hardwood. There is a noise deadening underlayment designed for laminate floors and that is what you may need to use.
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies guys. That drain is going to be under a bar im building right there so it will remain open with a false floor ontop of it.

I have seen the tar paper used often between the OSB and wood flooring I guess the problem I am trying to fix is the clickity clack you get with the plastic membrane on the plastic vapor barrier and the concrete floor.

The picture might be a little misleading, that is actually the plastic vaporblock vapor barrier, and THEN i was thinking about putting the tar paper down, and then the platon etc...

1. vapor barrier
2. tar paper
3. platon
4. osb
5. quiet walk
6. laminate

The tar paper was only like $60 so its not a huge expense at all, if it doesn't hurt then I will just lay it down.

Also the issue with building walls first or after the subfloor. At one time the basement walls were not in good shape so the side of the house had to be dug out, the steel braces were put in, the walls were shored back up and the house was back filled once again, there is an asphalt alley right next to that wall outside the house that is basically my driveway and my neighbors behind my property's driveway. The braces are not straight and the walls aren't the greatest and the concrete isn't the greatest going right up to the walls either. So that ruled out tapcon screwing 2x4 directly to the cinder block walls OR screwing baseplate to the floor and the top plate to the ceiling and building the walls that way.

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Old 02-08-2012, 04:21 PM
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Doesn't the Platon serve as a vapor barrier? With the Delta FL that is one of the advantages of it is that it is a vapor barrier. You do not want anything under the Platon that could be damaged by water (like the tar paper). I used the weedblock to prevent clicking noise because it is designed to be in contact with water, and would dry quickly if water got under the floor. I would think that having the additional vapor barrier would get in the way of the floor drying if water should get under the platon.

Having finished my floor I think I could have gotten away with putting the Delta FL directly on the concrete. I do not think I would have heard any clicking once the subfloor was on and fastened. My floor was very level though - if the floor is uneven then it may help to have something under it.
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:30 PM
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From the Platon installation instructions.

#
Install Platon Flooring and Subfloor (if needed)

1. Remove existing floor covering. Ensure the concrete is clear of debris. Level low areas with floor leveling compound if required. Cover the concrete with landscape fabric only for floating floors.
2. Roll out the first strip of Platon, dimples facing down, flat tab away from the wall, and cut to length. Cut off the flat tab. Reverse-roll the Platon if it curls excessively.
3. Unroll the next section with the flat tab overlapping the first section and cut to length. Apply butyl rubber caulk or foam panel adhesive between the flat tab and adjacent section or use “house-wrap” tape to seal the overlap. At the end of roll joints, mesh 4 rows of dimples, caulk and tape.
4. Cover the Platon with either butt-edge or tongue-and-groove plywood or OSB sheets. Fasten through the subfloor and Platon 25mm (1") into the concrete in a 61cm (24") grid and/or where there is vertical movement. The 122cm (4') joints between adjacent 122cm x 244cm (4' x 8') sheets should be staggered. Leave 6mm (1/4") clearance around the perimeter of the subfloor to allow for expansion. Non-load-bearing walls may now be framed on the subfloor.

The landscape fabric is the weedblock I am talking about. I would not put down plastic or the tar paper in your case. With the delta FL i sealed the edges with the Tyvek "house wrap" tape as there is no tab to overlap with the Delta.
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok cool, Ill return the $60 in tar paper, and the $78 in vapor block and get 4 rolls of the weedblock at $10 bux a roll. Saving $78-80

Thanks!

menards.com/main/lawn-garden/landscaping/3x50-weed-block-bio-paper-mulch/p-1490889-c-10124.htm

This makes much more sense too since the weed block fabric will deaden the sound of the plastic Platon compared to the sheet of vapor barrier.
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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what did you use to tape the seams of the weedblock? and did you over lap up the wall an inch or two and seal it there or flat to the floor at the edge of the wall?
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diernosaj View Post

what did you use to tape the seams of the weedblock? and did you over lap up the wall an inch or two and seal it there or flat to the floor at the edge of the wall?

I did not tape the weed block. I just rolled it out and overlapped a few inches. I laid it right to the wall and did not seal or tape it.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh ok that sounds good. Looks like I'll be returning this stuff in the morning and getting a few rolls of the weed block then I should be close to getting around 25 sheets of the plywood to lay down. Thanks for your help. I had been through your build already while lurking around on the forum, great work btw.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok my second n00b question is what to do about these steel braces and framing the walls.



The braces are about 2.5" deep and about 6" wide and aren't spaced out evenly nor are they level straight up and down. There are 4 on the long wall. How should I frame a wall up against these. Or in between and just build columns around them. they have rods that protrude very far into the earth with anchors at a downward angle and have very large adjusting bolts on the ends of them which some stick out almost another 2". The long part of the room will be about 10' wide by about 30-35ft long so I would rather not build huge columns to take up space if I can get away with it. If I frame the walls to go between the braces none of them will be the same size and will make hanging drywall a brutal mess.


Any ideas anybody?
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:20 PM
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Frame your wall 1 1/2 inches or so from the wall and notch out the top and bottom plate for the braces. Make sure the framing does not touch the metal. This will prevent sound from conducting sound from the room to the structure.
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Old 02-09-2012, 01:22 PM
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You might want to start a build thread to address the rest of your questions. People without experience with Platon are likely to just ignore this thread.
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Old 02-09-2012, 05:28 PM
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Hi - I'm Pieter and I do technical support for Armtec's Platon membrane.
Lets start with your walls. Assuming you are going to fame the walls with 2x4s, measure 4" into the room at each end of the room and chalk a line between the 2 points. This becomes the room side of the line your base plate will follow. (I assume it will clear the "U" beams)
Next, cut 2x4s to fit between the "U" beams. These will become your floor plate. Cut some strips of Platon 5" wide and staple the strips, dimples projecting away from the wood, to the underside of the floor plates with the excess width projecting into the room (the drywall will rest on this piece later).
Install the base plate sections following the chalk line and fasten to the concrete floor. (Tapcons or the "nail and solder" method.) Ditto for the ceiling plate, plumb to the floor plate and then toenail (screws are better) the studs into place. If you're using metal studs, screw the lower "U" channel to the wood floor plate.
Do your wiring, insulate (Roxul is my preference) and install a 6 mil vapour barrier before drywalling. After painting (and before you install door frames) you'll be ready for the floor.

With a "click lock" laminate that has an MDF core, you do not need to do an OSB subfloor. You do if you are using vinyl plank (EG - Allure)
You don't need the tarpaper either. Of course, if your floor is really bad, level the low areas with latex modified mortar (Top n Bond works well) before you start the flooring installation.
If your floor has some minor dips, place landscape fabric (weed block) on the concrete first. This will prevent the Platon dimples from clicking on the concrete. Landscape fabric breathes and does not rot. A level floor does not need the fabric.
I ususally work in strip sections - unroll a strip of landscape fabric, cut to length,unroll a strip of Platon over it, cut to length, unroll the "Quietwalk" underpad, cut to length and then install the laminate over that. Keep working in sections until the room is finished.
Then install your door frames and trim (no messy gaps at the doors) and enjoy!

Hope this helps.
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Old Yesterday, 01:56 PM
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Vinyl Plank Click Flooring - Paton Subfloor / OSB Wood Fastening.

Hi There

I would like to eliminate the work of pre drilling and Tapconing the sub floor to the platon do you think that i could get away with construction adhesive on the back of the OSB WOOD to secure it to the platon sub floor in which i can shoot (RAMSET) into the concrete.

1. shoot pins into the platon and secure it
2. glue OSB WOOD onto the plastic dimple board
3. click my Vinyl Plank flooring together.


trying to avoid labor costs with the pre drilling and tapconning into the ground.

I was told that shooting the OSB plywood with the platon sub floor will be virtually impossible to counter sink or it would go right through the wood...

any idea would be a huge help..

i will post to forum as well ...

thanks
Ralph.
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Old Yesterday, 02:54 PM
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I would suggest going the drycore flooring panel route in your situation
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