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post #1 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok here we go. I just got finished putting the studs up in my basement for a dedicated home theater. The room itself is 12' wide and 20' deep and has two walls, one side and the back, butted up to my exterior block walls. I put 2x2 studs on those walls and 2x4 on the other two walls. The ceiling is at 7'3" to the floor joists.
Now to the part i'm not for sure on. This room in directly below my main family room, so I would like to stop most if not all noise from leaving the HT room. But I would also like the best sound quality inside the room. I'm not going to be listening to music in the room, it's only for movie watching and game playing. I'm setting it up for 7.1.
My questions are these.
1-What material should I use before I put up drywall? I've been looking around and was planning on using acoustical barriers from silentsource.com. But that is going to be like $1400 shipped. Ya I know, wow. I've been reading a little about the 1" duct board and leaning that way but don't know if it will do the trick.
2- I was planning on doing two sheets of dw, but I was just going to use drywall screws for hanging them. Whats this green glue stuff I've seen people talk about?
3-Should I do all the walls the same. Like front, back and the two sides?
4-Ceiling. All my lights will be wall sconces, so there will not be any penetrations in my ceiling. Maybe my projector mount, but not sure yet how I'm going to put that up yet. Should I use the 1" duct board plus the layer of dw on my ceiling too?
Thanks for the help, I'm getting excited to finish this room up as I just ordered my projector a couple days ago.
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post #2 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 06:23 AM
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1. "acoustical barriers from silentsource.com? Specifically what? Their "mass loaded vinyl"? If so, bad plan. Won't do much in your application and all it is providing is mass. Drywall provides mass and costs less. Duct board? On or in the wall, won't do anything for sound isolation.

2. Green Glue is a viscoelastic damping agent which significantly reduces sound transfer between to like layes of material (like drywall). Using two layers of drywall and Green Glue will make a bigger difference than that junk in (1) above. That being said, you need three elements for good sound isolation ... mass, damping, and decoupling. Two layers of drywall and green glue take care of the mass and damping. You still need to do decoupling which can be done with isolation clips and hat channel.

3. All the walls AND the ceiling. Just like an aquarium ... doesn't much matter where the hole is, the water is going to get out. You have to isolate the whole space, not just a part of it (look up "flanking").

4. Sconces...cool. Oops, you're still putting a hole in your isolation barrier.

Ordered your projector? Great. Since you haven't designed your room yet, how do you know the projector will meet both your needs and the needs dictated by the room. Of course, you're excited. I'd suggest you slow down, plan out (completely) what you're going to do then execute the plan.

Check out www.soundproofingcompany.com Lot's of information there.

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post #3 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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1-The acoustical barriers are 1lb vinyl sheet material. So don't use that, good deal, I didn't want to have to spend that much on it anyways. I was just reading the acoustical treatments master thread and they were talking about putting up 1" duct board for the sound proofing. I don't know much about it.

2-Green glue sounds good then, and will 2 1/2" sheets work or should I use 2 5/8" dw? And for the hat channel and iso clips, where do they fit in? Do I put the clips between the sheets of dw? I thought the green glue held the two sheets together.

3-I'll be looking up flanking here after I finish typing this up.

4-since I will have holes in the iso barrier, what would the best stuff to put in-between the studs.

And I ordered my projector because I'm not rich and brandsmart in florida is selling the epson 8700ub for only 1600. And it just happens that my brother lives in florida and works for fed ex. So he bought it and didn't really have to pay much for shipping to get it to me. I figured with my budget that is the best projector I could buy for the price. Other than getting a screen and getting this room done I now have everything I need. Already have my surround sound. I was prob just going to use the wall as a screen till I can save up and get the elite screen I want.
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post #4 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 06:57 AM
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1" duct board for the sound proofing. I don't know much about it.

That's for sound conditioning, not soundproofing.

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will 2 1/2" sheets work or should I use 2 5/8" dw?

Double 5/8". You want the mass.

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And for the hat channel and iso clips, where do they fit in? Do I put the clips between the sheets of dw?

Clips on the studs or joists, then the double drywall.

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I'll be looking up flanking here after I finish typing this up.

http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/...cles/flanking/

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since I will have holes in the iso barrier, what would the best stuff to put in-between the studs.

Fiberglass insulation and seal any holes in the drywall

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post #5 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I just read up on flanking. I never thought that the concrete floor would leak noise like that. You think if I seal the bottom of the walls a couple places with acoustical sealant and put carpet down that would be alright. Because to be honest I don't think I could afford to put a floating floor down.

Should I worry about sound conditioning? Or is that something for more of a high dollar room?

Thanks for all this help. This weekend I'll be going to home depot and starting on my walls and ceiling.
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post #6 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 07:13 AM
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In all honesty, I would do as Dennis suggested and take a breather and plan this out a LOT more. You will be very happy that you did, and likely be very unhappy if you don't. Have a look at the various theater build threads here and you'll get an idea of the massive level of detail required to pull this off.

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post #7 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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What else do I need to look up? Other than the sound proofing, I have everything but the screen. I'm open to any suggestions? I have a denon avr-2308CI, Left and right are definitive mythos sts, center is definitive mythos three, surround is 4 mirage nanosat, and sub is klipsch 10". Projector coming is epson 8700ub. Screen to be ordered at a later date when money is saved. But looking at elite screens. I built a 10" platform 5'6" wide about 13 feet from wall for a sofa, and right in front of that is where I'm putting my main seat. A nice reclining couch.

I thought now all I had to think about was wall treatment? Like the drywall and green glue? Plus I know now I should put some acoustical sealant all around the bottom and tops of my stud walls. Plus in my outlet boxes. I got that info from the flanking I looked up. There isn't any duct work in the room so nothing for the sound to leave my ceiling.

Thats why I'm here, cause I know nothing and you guys on this site are very educated on this info. Thanks again.
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post #8 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 08:12 AM
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The room itself is 12' wide and 20' deep and has two walls, one side and the back, butted up to my exterior block walls. I put 2x2 studs on those walls and 2x4 on the other two walls.

Do you mean that you attached the 2x2s directly to the foundation walls? IF so, you might want to rethink that before you get any further along. Standard 2x4 at least 1" from the walls would be better.

You COULD put the floating subfloor along the perimeter of the room by cutting it so that it is spaced 1/4" from the foundation, and only extends past the bottom an inch. That would get the wall off the floor and the height of the sub floor will be hidden by the two layers of 5/8 DW. this way you get 5 two foot strips about 4" wide from each of the flooring panels.You would only need 1 panel for every 10' of perimeter wall.

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post #9 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
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Screen to be ordered at a later date when money is saved. But looking at elite screens. I built a 10" platform 5'6" wide about 13 feet from wall for a sofa, and right in front of that is where I'm putting my main seat. A nice reclining couch.


Take a look at Seymour screens, look up false walls, and did you say you built the riser already for your seating? The riser should be built AFTER the drywall layers are completed or you will be flanking noise, leaking and transmitting sound right throught the wall you just spent so many hours building. Where are you placing the subwoofer? Have you thought about a front stage filled with sand? I think both Dennis and Ted are correct is saying you might want to take a week or two and read the forum. Look at the Bacon Race theater build. It is the most recent build and covers a lot of the decisions you are trying to make.

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post #10 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote=tlogan6797;21625488]Do you mean that you attached the 2x2s directly to the foundation walls? IF so, you might want to rethink that before you get any further along. Standard 2x4 at least 1" from the walls would be better.

No the 2x2 are not attached to the foundation walls. I built a wall of 2x2 and the stood it up and wedged it in place in front of the exterior wall. I just attached it to the floor and ceiling. I think there is about a 1/4 gap between the two walls on most spots.

And that is a good idea for the floating floor. The only thing is when i put carpet down, would I just put the padding down inside the strips. Then put carpet down over everything. Trying to think how to make the floor one level with the strips being on the perimeter.
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post #11 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 08:40 AM
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If you put your finish floor inside the perimeter of the strips, any baseboard you install would hide any gaps at the floor level. The drywall will be even or a little in front of the strips so you either won't see them or they would be even with the drywall same as if the drywall went all the way to the floor.

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post #12 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Take a look at Seymour screens, look up false walls, and did you say you built the riser already for your seating? The riser should be built AFTER the drywall layers are completed or you will be flanking noise, leaking and transmitting sound right throught the wall you just spent so many hours building. Where are you placing the subwoofer? Have you thought about a front stage filled with sand? I think both Dennis and Ted are correct is saying you might want to take a week or two and read the forum. Look at the Bacon Race theater build. It is the most recent build and covers a lot of the decisions you are trying to make.

The riser is just basically a 6'x7' box sitting on the floor. How would I do that after drywall? For my sub, I was thinking just under and to the left of where my screen will go. Kinda next to my left front tower. Is that a bad placement? What is a front stage with sand? No clue what you mean by that.

I have looked at a lot of the designs here, most, if not all, of you guys have way more money to put into this then I do. I only have limited amount of cash left in the funds my wife and I set aside for this. I'll take some pics of what I have done so far, that might help me get some help in what I'm doing.
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post #13 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 09:25 AM
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Ok here we go. I just got finished putting the studs up in my basement for a dedicated home theater.

And from a pure sound isolation perspective you did them wrong. I bet you firmly attached the top plates to the ceiling joists, and I can only imagine that those 2x2s were attached to the foundation walls.

Post some pictures so we can slap you around some more and convince you to start over. The good thing about wood is it can be reused.
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post #14 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 09:30 AM
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There isn't any duct work in the room so nothing for the sound to leave my ceiling.

How do you plan on heating/cool this room? Also if you seal this room up nice and tight for sound management what are you going to do after you use up the oxygen?
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post #15 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 09:33 AM
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The riser is just basically a 6'x7' box sitting on the floor. How would I do that after drywall? For my sub, I was thinking just under and to the left of where my screen will go. Kinda next to my left front tower. Is that a bad placement? What is a front stage with sand? No clue what you mean by that.

I have looked at a lot of the designs here, most, if not all, of you guys have way more money to put into this then I do. I only have limited amount of cash left in the funds my wife and I set aside for this. I'll take some pics of what I have done so far, that might help me get some help in what I'm doing.

If you build a stage in front and fill it with sand it will help reduce the amount of sound transmitted into the concrete. I understand you do not want to spend a lot of money, but if you want to build a theater "with the best sound" there are certain steps to be taken. It might help to know what your budget is and have a drawing of the space you have so everyone can give you a better idea of where you should be spending your money. Some things can be completed in stages so the outflow of cash is not so painful. You could then do the final pieces when money becomes available. If you want to build your room with soundproofing in mind then you need to do those types of things up front using a good plan. It is difficult to add decoupling or mass after the room is done.

Here is an example of a sand filled stage.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=126

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post #16 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 09:35 AM
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Nice summary!

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post #17 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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OK once again, I did not fasten the 2x2 to the foundation walls. But I did screw them to the ceiling joists. And I'm not against starting over, but my wife will likely not like that idea.

For heating I was going to get some baseboard heaters, and for cooling I figured it was the basement so didn't really need that to much.

For oxygen I have a chimney on one of my side walls, you can see the clean out in the pic. Right above the clean out there was a spot they had an old wood burning stove hooked into it. I spray foamed that, then cut out a 6" hole and put a duct fan in. So I'll be able to switch the fan off and on.

As for the sand box in front. As much as it might help I'll prob not do that, just for the simple reason of height. Don't know if you can see in the pic but that part of the ceiling comes down about 6". So I was planning about 2" between the top of the screen and the ceiling. But then I only have 33 inches from bottom of screen to floor. Plus my center speaker is going in that space.

For space, well if I start over I can change the length and width. Length I can go another 4 feet if needed and width I can go prob around 3 more feet. I figured with the short ceiling hight a 12x20 room was the right size. But then again I don't really know what I doing.

Now budget. Not really sure. I guess around 1000 bucks is what I was hopping for the build part. Lumber, drywall, ext...
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post #18 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 10:59 AM
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and for cooling I figured it was the basement so didn't really need that to much.

Once you well insulate the space and seal it tight. Put 6 or so people in there with a small space heater disguised as a projector and it will need cooling on the coldest day of the year where ever you live. If it is cold outside that hole will help, if it is hot out, well you will be out of luck.

Looks like you didn't use PT lumber for the bottom plate, probably not a problem unless when you get ready to sell and the home inspector spots it from the backside of some wall.

You could go with a DIY acoustically transparent screen (SeymourAV fabric) and get the speakers up behind the screen. That would solve the problem of not enough height for a stage.
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post #19 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Once you well insulate the space and seal it tight. Put 6 or so people in there with a small space heater disguised as a projector and it will need cooling on the coldest day of the year where ever you live. If it is cold outside that hole will help, if it is hot out, well you will be out of luck.

I do have a vent I can put in this room. You can kinda see it in one of the pics, one the ceiling right after it drops down, but then I'm back to flanking and have no clue how I could stop the sound from going throughout the house.
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post #20 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 11:15 AM
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post #21 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 11:38 AM
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You should be clear here - do you want the best sound, or do you want the best soundproofing? They are (mostly) different concepts.

BTW using 2x2's for a stud wall is bad practice - those walls are going to be very flimsy and will warp over time. 2x3's minimum, 2x4's are standard

If you can go wider than 12' I would recommend it - how many seats across were you thinking? There are calculators that can help you design ideal room dimensions for a better starting point acoustically (ie. more evenly distributed room modes)
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post #22 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 11:39 AM
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except a really quiet room will sound better.
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post #23 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 12:13 PM
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That's why I said mostly
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post #24 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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For the most part I want my ceiling soundproofed. As long as the sound doesn't really leave the basement I'll be fine. With that been said, I would like to get the best sound as I can.
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post #25 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 12:23 PM
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...of cash left in the funds my wife...

Sit down with your wife and explain (very nicely) to her about how she is going to have to get a better job.

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post #26 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 12:28 PM
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For the most part I want my ceiling soundproofed. As long as the sound doesn't really leave the basement I'll be fine. With that been said, I would like to get the best sound as I can.

That isn't going to happen. Sound isolation is pretty much an all or "very disappointed" thing.

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post #27 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, I see what you mean by all or nothing with the sound isolation. It doesn't have to be super quit outside the theater room, but I would like to stop most of the sound.

And you can try all you want to "nicely" talk to the wife about getting a better paying job. But right now she is about 7 months prego with our second child and already wants to quit work so she can be a stay at home mom. Which would be nice but is not going to happen.
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post #28 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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If you can go wider than 12' I would recommend it - how many seats across were you thinking? There are calculators that can help you design ideal room dimensions for a better starting point acoustically (ie. more evenly distributed room modes)

I'm not doing the norm here, from what I've seen. On the riser, I'm putting a oversized sofa that reclines on each side. Right in front of that, I'm going to put the matching coach.
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post #29 of 33 Old 02-10-2012, 09:59 PM
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12' is a decent width for 3 seats across, but even then I think you will appreciate an extra couple of feet, if for no other reason than to get the surround speakers further away from your head.

Having the room to potentially do 4 seats across is a big plus IMO.
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post #30 of 33 Old 02-11-2012, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arscott82 View Post

But right now she is about 7 months prego with our second child and already wants to quit work so she can be a stay at home mom.

All the more reason to do it right. Picture if you will, arscott82 enjoying a new release with some nice LFE, then being rudely interrupted by "WAAAAAAAAA" and 30 seconds later "Turn that F%#*@!G thing down and get up here!"
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