The "2...3...Oh Sean! This might turn out to be a nice theater!?" Build Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 52 Old 02-15-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kromkamp View Post

Let me just add to the chorus - rip out that tub monstrosity and repair the structure while you have the opportunity - there is no way that was installed legitimately

And if you hired a home inspector and he did not say anything about this, you should get your money back.
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post #32 of 52 Old 02-15-2012, 01:10 PM
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Lol, it does look like cow patties. As for the asbestos, its always on my mind. I called a few asbestos removal companies and they pretty much said not to worry about it, lol. They said just wear a mask when tearing stuff down and make sure I vacuum everything up. They offered to accept pieces for testing but didn't suggest it as they seemed confident it would be fine. Somewhere between $500 and $700 per sample is what I've been quoted. I don't know if they are all too busy or if they really don't think its that big of an issue? My fiance's brother works for a restoration company in a different state, I've talked to him about it. He said more or less the same and said if we were to insist and hire someone, we could expect to pay ranges well above $15-20k just for the removal, if there is asbestos.

-Sean

That doesn't sound like *any* asbestos removal company I've ever talked to or used. Up here in Toronto you can get 48-hr turnaround lab testing for $60-$75 a sample, there's no way its 10X the price where you are.
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post #33 of 52 Old 02-15-2012, 02:19 PM
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The studio room does have either a primer or paint. What if I was to drywall over the existing wall/pegboard?

Doesn't matter if the door is inside or outside.

Drywall over is likely ok...understand the law (or regulation) uses the term "disturb". So if you can sheet rock over the paint and not disturb you're OK.

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post #34 of 52 Old 02-15-2012, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Back to the asbestos, the companies that I had talked to suggested that I read about asbestos on the E.P.A. website, so I gave it a look. According to the documentation there, I should be clear, but I do still constantly wonder. Thank you all for your concern as well!

Thanks Dennis, I will call someone out to test for lead before I continue. I gave the E.P.A.'s website a read on lead and there I am definitely in the possible issue area.

As for the tub, calm down everyone, lol. It wasn't an "after thought" that someone just threw in the house. The house was designed by an architect with the input from the owners, the owner was a civil engineer. I'm sure there is proper support for the tub, we just haven't seen it yet, after all the tub has been there for 45 years! That is a loooooong time, no offense intended to those who are older than 45 , so I think its safe to say it will be ok. From everything else that I've seen in the house, I'd say they didn't do any "corner-cutting". It will be exciting to finally find out though, but I gotta get lead tested first.

-Sean
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post #35 of 52 Old 02-16-2012, 05:30 AM
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It shouldn't cost much for the Certified Lead Renonvator to come out and check and tell you what, if anything, needs to be done. (I'm such a person; but, the logistics of coming to Chicago would not be worth it ... you should find several in your area in any case.)

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post #36 of 52 Old 02-16-2012, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

Asbestos, ok. Here's worse .... lead based paint. Even with you doing the work yourself, you are subject to the lead based paint rules and will likely require a certified lead based paint renovator to determine if that paint is present and monitor for compliance. Here's the down side, the fines are very signficant (even for a DIY project). Those fines (upwards of $37,500 per day!)* can be assessed even after you sell the home to someone else and they discover lead residue or dust within the vents/carpets/etc. as a result of your renovation work. Cheaper to have it checked out for a few $100 bucks.

The requirements would apply to you if your project disturbs:
•6 square feet of interior lead paint surface AND/OR
•20 square feet of exterior lead paint surface AND/OR
•the removal of a window or door.



Just FYI.

*All it takes is one pissed off neighbor or paint contractor to rat you out. A real example ... local building inspector sees a stack of lumber in the driveway, stops to see what is going on ... nope, no permits, yes lead based paint present and, yes, the full fine just to set an example.

I was under the impression DIY was exempt from the rules. Still a good idea to take precautions but this is what the EPA's website says about DIY projects. Have things changed? Varying State laws come into play as well I'm sure.

"Information for Homeowners Working at Home

If you are a homeowner performing renovation, repair, or painting work in your own home, EPA's RRP rule does not cover your project. However, you have the ultimate responsibility for the safety of your family or children in your care. If you are living in a pre-1978 home and planning to do painting or repairs, please read a copy of EPA's Renovate Right: Important Lead Hazard Information for Families, Child Care Providers, and Schools lead hazard information pamphlet. You may also want to call the National Lead Information Center at 1-800-424-LEAD (5323) and ask for more information on how to work safely in a home with lead-based paint."
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post #37 of 52 Old 02-16-2012, 06:09 AM
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Since this house is a recent purchase was there a disclosure about lead paint and asbestos? Last time I listed a property there was a special form to fill out for just sort of a thing. Keep in mind that if you have your house tested and you have a positive result then you can't claim ignorance when you get ready to sell. And of course now that you have discussed this here on the forum it is possible that this documentation could be found. I have a niece who ranted on her website blog about shoddy work done by guy who bought/fixed/flipped the house to her. Later when she got a contract for sale the rant was subsequently discovered and the buyers walked away using the inspection clause.
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post #38 of 52 Old 02-16-2012, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SCHNEEDOO View Post

I was under the impression DIY was exempt from the rules. Still a good idea to take precautions but this is what the EPA's website says about DIY projects. Have things changed? Varying State laws come into play as well I'm sure.

"Information for Homeowners Working at Home

If you are a homeowner performing renovation, repair, or painting work in your own home, EPA's RRP rule does not cover your project. However, you have the ultimate responsibility for the safety of your family or children in your care. If you are living in a pre-1978 home and planning to do painting or repairs, please read a copy of EPA's Renovate Right: Important Lead Hazard Information for Families, Child Care Providers, and Schools lead hazard information pamphlet. You may also want to call the National Lead Information Center at 1-800-424-LEAD (5323) and ask for more information on how to work safely in a home with lead-based paint."

Thanks Schneedoo, I will give that a read and most likely have a conversation with the NLIC. The city that I live in doesn't require permits for most of the things that I plan to do, so I will figure out the proper disposal procedures for lead based paint materials and treat the few painted items as such (assuming this will be suggested by the NLIC). I will need an OTC permit if I end up re-routing my duct work, but that would come post tear down and this issue would no longer be a factor.

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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Since this house is a recent purchase was there a disclosure about lead paint and asbestos? Last time I listed a property there was a special form to fill out for just sort of a thing. Keep in mind that if you have your house tested and you have a positive result then you can't claim ignorance when you get ready to sell. And of course now that you have discussed this here on the forum it is possible that this documentation could be found. I have a niece who ranted on her website blog about shoddy work done by guy who bought/fixed/flipped the house to her. Later when she got a contract for sale the rant was subsequently discovered and the buyers walked away using the inspection clause.

Yes, there was a Lead Based Paint Disclosure. The sellers checked two boxes stating:

"Seller has no knowledge of lead-based paint and/or lead-based paint hazards in the housing."

"Seller has no reports or records pertaining to lead-based paint and/or lead-based paint hazards in the housing."

Again, I purchased from the original owners so its not like the "telephone game" has skewed the knowledge from owner to owner over the years. However, that doesn't mean they were telling the truth either, I just have to assume that people are as honest as I am. Come to think of it, they left a paint chest in the utility room containing cans of all of the stains and paints used around the house (in case a touch-up was needed) with little notes as to which is which. I will go give those cans a look.

No disclosure about asbestos as according to the E.P.A. the house doesn't fall in the category for such requirements (that doesn't mean there for sure is no asbestos, after all asbestos was in everything so I am still cautious, but it is highly unlikely to be present).

Good point about having results in hand. Could be good, could be bad, lol. Once I read the DIY section of the E.P.A. website and discuss things with the NLIC, I will decide whether or not I will get the house tested. I of course don't plan to sell the house, but if I ever did....I see where you're coming from.

Now, back to the "window/door removal" criteria, I will not be removing doors, just relocating/adding doors. So, is this technically still an issue? Does the word "removal" here mean just a simple taking a door off it's hinges or does it mean no more existence of a door to said room?

-Sean
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post #39 of 52 Old 02-16-2012, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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This is the paint chest that the owners left for us.







This contains all of the paint/stain used both inside and outside of the house. I know it doesn't look like much but a lot of the interior walls are/were either wallpapered, ledgestone, wood panel, cedar siding, or brick. The oldest can of paint in the chest is the one in the last pic, from 2004. My guess is that all of the drywall had wallpaper on it at some point, but they did a remodel starting in 2004. The majority of the paint and stain is from 2007 and that was the same year they added the current appliances and wood floors. I'm feeling pretty confident about there being no lead-based paint in this house.

-Sean
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post #40 of 52 Old 02-16-2012, 07:53 AM
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What ever they painted over could have lead in it. Most people don't completely rip out the drywall when they remodel.
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post #41 of 52 Old 02-16-2012, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SCHNEEDOO View Post

What ever they painted over could have lead in it. Most people don't completely rip out the drywall when they remodel.

I understand that thought, however it appears that the house originally had wallpaper on the walls made of drywall and that they removed the wallpaper on a few walls and painted that. In fact, several walls in the house are viewable at the same time and they did this funky "paint job" that runs the whole distance. It goes from the dining room into the formal living room, into the family room to the hallway. This "paint job" has the majority of the wall as white, then a ribbon (yes, a ribbon), then a light yellow, then another ribbon, then a darker yellow. On the white section they painted murals containing more ribbon. The other room in the house that has paint is the master bath, I have to assume it had wallpaper on it before the pink paint simply because all the other bathrooms have wallpaper.

On another topic, I have updated my sketch a bit. I dropped the idea of the crown molding (which was the angled segments in my previous sketch, lol) and have decided things would be much easier and less traditional if I just use 1x for my columns and beams. I don't like the color of the wood in sketch-up but I used it to show that it will be stained wood. I have dropped the riser to a final height of 10" and the love seats will have a 4" rise directly below them. I drew a line from where I believe the PJ's lens to rest to the top and bottom of the screen, it barely clears my center beam and I feel that it will still be too close to have a rear row seat in front of it. The right side of the theater now has a mirrored angle toward the screen. I plan to have the wall/ceiling from the foremost column (where the front wide speaker will be placed) to the screen wall covered in black velvet. From the foremost column back will be split, flat black paint on the bottom and a graphite grey on the top with acoustic panels to match (graphite Acousti Suede). The ceiling from the foremost beam (not drawn yet) to the back of the room will be Behr Midnight Sky (a dark blue) and will be treated to a NSM. The soffits currently stand at 5 3/4" x 1' with an extension of 3.5" for a light box, bringing the bottom to 9 1/4" wide. They will be finished with stained 1x and drywall painted with the Midnight Sky blue and the NSM to extend to those areas to give an effect of a continuing sky. The center beam will be done very similarly. I understand if I end up moving my HVAC ducts that the current soffit design will not be able to accommodate the duct and will then have to be redesigned (an issue that will be easier to see once I am down to the framing of the basement, exposing everything). My columns will stick out 2 1/2" from the wall and be 11 1/4" wide, finished with stained 1x. The "chair rail" is simply a stained 1x4. The beam that runs down the center will start right before the tub, helping conceal the fact that it is there, and the second beam (not drawn yet) will start right before the actual I-Beam I believe to be running left to right before the screen wall, in order to conceal it as well. My current issue is trying to figure out the proper transition from the 1' soffit to a 14" beam toward the front of the room. I can't figure out how to do it without looking odd, which is why I have yet to draw it. I don't know if I missed anything or not, but feel free to ask and continue to throw ideas out there. Let me know what you all think of the changes.





-Sean
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post #42 of 52 Old 02-16-2012, 10:10 AM
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Back to the asbestos, the companies that I had talked to suggested that I read about asbestos on the E.P.A. website, so I gave it a look. According to the documentation there, I should be clear, but I do still constantly wonder. Thank you all for your concern as well!

Thanks Dennis, I will call someone out to test for lead before I continue. I gave the E.P.A.'s website a read on lead and there I am definitely in the possible issue area.

As for the tub, calm down everyone, lol. It wasn't an "after thought" that someone just threw in the house. The house was designed by an architect with the input from the owners, the owner was a civil engineer. I'm sure there is proper support for the tub, we just haven't seen it yet, after all the tub has been there for 45 years! That is a loooooong time, no offense intended to those who are older than 45 , so I think its safe to say it will be ok. From everything else that I've seen in the house, I'd say they didn't do any "corner-cutting". It will be exciting to finally find out though, but I gotta get lead tested first.

-Sean

Its your house and you can do what you want, but here's what I know:

1)Any house older than the 70's probably has asbestos in it somewhere. Asbestos was used *everywhere* - insulation, pipe wrap, vinyl tiles, drywall compound, plaster, everywhere. Its a good idea to take samples and have it tested. If you are doing work you want it taken out properly, so the worry about "discovery" is a non-issue.

2)I am curious to see how that tub is supported but with the drop down area I cant see how the joists aren't completely compromised. Even that aside its typically considered a tripping/falling hazard to have a step down tub like that, which makes me wonder how an architect and civil engineer would come up with the idea in the first place. To me that red flags a shoddy installation, but you'll be opening it up underneath anyways so you'll know for sure.
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post #43 of 52 Old 02-16-2012, 11:13 AM
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Sean,

Not sure how I missed this, another very interesting local thread. Noticed one of your inherited paint cans list an address on Roosevelt Rd. in Wheaton. I am writing this post from Roosevelt Rd in Glen Ellyn. Welcome (and I just subscribed)..

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post #44 of 52 Old 02-16-2012, 11:31 AM
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It does apply to homeowners doing their own work.

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post #45 of 52 Old 02-16-2012, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kromkamp View Post

2)I am curious to see how that tub is supported but with the drop down area I cant see how the joists aren't completely compromised. Even that aside its typically considered a tripping/falling hazard to have a step down tub like that, which makes me wonder how an architect and civil engineer would come up with the idea in the first place. To me that red flags a shoddy installation, but you'll be opening it up underneath anyways so you'll know for sure.

I guess I had failed to mention that the dining room and formal living room are both sunken the same extent as the tub in the master bath. The faucet side of the tub shares a wall with the formal living room.



My dog is a ham and works his way into pics all the time.

I went into the utility room (under the dining room) and checked out how it is supported. There are 4x12s that run perpendicular to the massive I-beam. They are then sandwiched inside the lips of the I-beam, it appears that a hole was drilled on the underside of the lip of the I-beam and a metal rod was run up through the center of the 4x12, then welded flush with the I-beam. The faucet side of the tub butts up against the other side of the I-beam, so I assume something similar was done to create the frame of the tub. The tub runs along the outside wall of the house, so the foundation would be holding up on side in length.

Quote:
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Sean,

Not sure how I missed this, another very interesting local thread. Noticed one of your inherited paint cans list an address on Roosevelt Rd. in Wheaton. I am writing this post from Roosevelt Rd in Glen Ellyn. Welcome (and I just subscribed)..

Hey, we are indeed neighbors, I will have to check out your build as well.

-Sean
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post #46 of 52 Old 02-16-2012, 11:49 AM
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Just make sure to post a picture of the structure here when you take down the ceiling. It may be that this is just lowered to allow for plumbing to run perpendicular to the joists without having to notch them - that is fine (good in fact)

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post #47 of 52 Old 02-17-2012, 05:59 AM
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SHOW US WHAT'S UNDER THE TUB!!
SHOW US WHAT'S UNDER THE TUB!!
SHOW US WHAT'S UNDER THE TUB!!
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post #48 of 52 Old 02-17-2012, 06:12 AM
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Still not a fan of that "hallway" in the back. I wouldn't worry about people stepping in front of the PJ and would run the riser all the way to the back wall. I know that advice has been given already, so I guess I am harping on the point. Moving on.

Looks like an interesting house/build. I like builds where there is a projector room.
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post #49 of 52 Old 02-17-2012, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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SHOW US WHAT'S UNDER THE TUB!!
SHOW US WHAT'S UNDER THE TUB!!
SHOW US WHAT'S UNDER THE TUB!!

LMAO, I will! I'm just not there yet!

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Still not a fan of that "hallway" in the back. I wouldn't worry about people stepping in front of the PJ and would run the riser all the way to the back wall. I know that advice has been given already, so I guess I am harping on the point. Moving on.

I know I'm the only one that seems to like this idea, lol. I am just not having seats up against the rear wall, I have been watching movies like that in apartments for the last 5 years and it sucked. I guess some are saying that the unfortunate viewers to be sitting in the far left/right rear seats will be hosed though in this design, something I didn't initially consider. My reasoning behind walking up on the riser to get to the rest of the theater is because I absolutely love the theaters that "start at the top" and the rest of the room is sunken in. I, unfortunately, don't have the ceiling height to allow the riser to start at the entry nor do I have the money or desire to bust through the foundation and dig the front of the room out to create this effect. My best solution to accommodate the "style" I'm looking for was to step up to step down.

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Looks like an interesting house/build. I like builds where there is a projector room.

Thanks, the house is very interesting. It is a mid-century modern hillside ranch. I am struggling with how I want the theater to look, as I would like it to be just as impressive as the rest of the house, but I'm still not sure what to do with it. I had a previous design (never posted on here) that involved a lot of curves in the soffits but decided it looked a little too much like a modern night club, not what I am going for. I don't know if my current design is too boring or out-of-place. I have toyed with the idea of "theme-ing" the theater in a mid-century modern style to match the rest of the house, but not sure if that's what I want. It might be cool, make it kind of a bomb shelter look with subtle curves and retro-futuristic furniture. But those chairs and couches just don't have the comfort of modern day theater seats with recliners, cup holders, etc.

I'm still not sure how to go about the projector in the equipment room. I know that is where it will go, to keep it out of the theater, but I want to make the space "up-gradable" for future PJs. Also, I don't know if I should separate the rooms with a piece of glass or not. I know that the more glass the light goes through the more degraded the image gets, so not sure where I stand on making a "window" for it. Any suggestions on this?

-Sean
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post #50 of 52 Old 02-29-2012, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, its been a while since I have posted, not much going on demo/construction wise. However, after all of the suggestions to change the riser (thanks BTW!) and talking to an acoustical treatment company I have redesigned the room. I have taken elements of the rest of the house and put them into the room to pull it away from that "traditional" look and connect it with the house aesthetics wise. The majority of the home lighting is ambient light from trough-style light boxes, so I have added this, both along the floor and ceiling. The acoustical company suggest to try and have no parallel walls, so I have done this. However, my back wall and screen wall will still be parallel, so I have decided to find some sort of stone to match the stone in the rest of the house (hopefully find a thin veneer that looks like the real stuff in the house) and use it along the back wall. My thought for that is that the stone faced wall will be broken in so many directions that it will no longer be parallel to the front wall, I didn't discuss this with the acoustic guys so I'm not sure is this will hurt or not but it should look nice and tie into the house nicely. The riser has been adjusted up against the rear wall (I won't be sitting there so I'm not too worried how good the rear row's sound will be right under the speakers). The riser is still 14" tall and has 2 stairs, 5" and 10" rise, made of 2x12s that will appear to float and will be stained to match the 2x12 wall columns. Here are some pics:

Sky View




From Screen looking to the rear of the room




Side of room angle



I'm still debating on using a pair of QS8s as front wides on those front 2x12 columns. Audyssey suggests direct fire speakers, but the QS8s would fit there nicely. Otherwise I guess I would go with 2 more SHO-10s, but I would have to build in a wall cavity to put them in just after the first column towards the rear of the room. I don't know how that would work with sound, both in proofing and listening, if there was a 20"x12"x12" cavity in the wall, obviously still DD+GG around that area but still. Any thoughts? Thanks!

-Sean
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post #51 of 52 Old 02-29-2012, 02:32 PM
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I like the new look and I think you are on the right track with the new riser. However, I would tweak it a bit so you step off the sides of the riser in the two front corners. Having that bottom step run along the entire back of the front row looks a little funny.

I like the look of the stone but I think it's going to hurt your acoustics with some pretty bad reflections. I'm not an expert so others are going to have to weigh in on that, but that is my gut feeling. Maybe if you reduced the amount of it and used it as a wainscot on the rear wall. I know you have it in other parts of the house and I like the idea of pulling it into the theater. I'm just not sure the best way to pull it off acoustically. Any chance of using it just outside the theater, maybe as a base for some columns that flank your entry door? Can't remember how much room you have out there?
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post #52 of 52 Old 03-02-2012, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, a few changes here reference the stone and the stairs. I have reduced the amount of stone, but I still need opinions on it, and I have chamfered the bottom step.

New rear stone wall. I need help deciding if the stone should carry over the whole width of the columns or just half (both versions depicted)




This is the new chamfered front step. Better?




Also, FedEx dropped off some goodies today. I ordered some Tectum samples last week, another change in design when I decided to flow the rest of the house into the theater. I won't be using the exposed material like I have for my ceilings but I will still be using the product for my acoustic panels.





Front of the panels.




Rear of the panels.




Gunmetal Grey is what I plan to use for the majority of the panels.




Black is what I plan to use down by the screen to help eliminate reflections.




I am liking the finishes of the Fabri-Glass and Fabri-Tough over the Tough II, the NRCs are close so I'm guessing it will come down to ppsf to decide which one I'll use. Fabri-Tough is very similar to my ceilings and a little higher NRC so there is a good chance I'll be using it.

-Sean
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