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TMcG's Avatar TMcG 02:39 PM 07-18-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBon View Post

The wider the hinge, the wider its swing radius. So when it opens, the door will move toward the opposite jamb by an amount determined by the hinge swing radius. So you need to allow enough clearance so the the opposite edge of the door does not hit the opposite jamb before it swings far enough to clear. So if the door has to swing 5 degrees to clear the opposite jamb, the distance between the edges of the leaves of the hinge will be twice as far for an 8" hinge, as for a 4 " hinge, when the hinge is open 5 degrees.

Isn't this why the side of the door opposite the hinges typically has a slight back bevel to it? A few degrees of bevel shouldn't interfere with getting a good seal against the seals while still allowing for clearance.


And I would definitely not use MDF for anything structural or expected to hold significant weight. After all, is it essentially sawdust and glue pressed together under heat. The gripping power of a screw in MDF is significantly less than virtually all other building materials, fyi.

Here's a few of the links I had bookmarked for DIY'ing a high-performance soundproof door:
http://www.bobgolds.com/Door/home.htm

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=a52fcbc3db023442b5f2eba5b5811a74

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=a52fcbc3db023442b5f2eba5b5811a74

http://recording.org/forum.php#359901

Personally, I will be making my jambs out of veneered 3/4" plywood and the outer frame of the door as described above: high-quality 1x4 poplar to the appropriate thickness with an infill of either drywall or MDF (for mass) and Green Glue between layers. If I'm feeling frisky I might even splurge on some rolls of lead sheeting with Green Glue between the layers to add the ultimate in mass and dampening.

Keep up the great work!

LeBon's Avatar LeBon 05:07 PM 07-18-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Isn't this why the side of the door opposite the hinges typically has a slight back bevel to it? A few degrees of bevel shouldn't interfere with getting a good seal against the seals while still allowing for clearance.

Most doors don't have a back bevel, in my limited experience. I would be careful about too much bevel on the door, as it may interfere with a good seal against the stops when closed. It might be better to bevel the jamb to allow more clearance.

PS: I'm certainly not an authority on this sort of thing. I've hung maybe 4 or 5 doors in my life.
Mr.Tim's Avatar Mr.Tim 06:15 PM 07-18-2013
An 1-3/4" thick or thicker door really needs some bevel to get a nice reveal when the door is closed. Not much.. you could hand plane it if you were so inclined.

When I got my last 3 slabs they were all pre-beveled.

Beveling won't decrease the amount of door that hits the stop, but it will make it look a lot nicer from the pull side when it's closed. The gap will be smaller. The push side of the door will always have to be smaller due to the math demonstrated above.

I had never stopped to think about wider hinges needing more bevel, but it certainly makes sense.

I think the trick is not to make the jamb too wide. I found with my last slabs that a 32" door needed a 32" wide jamb opening. With square edge I would go 32-3/16". It really helps to have the door when you build the jamb!

Tim
jedimastergrant's Avatar jedimastergrant 01:51 PM 07-30-2013
Goodies Arrived

A few deliveries lately. The first is a very long couple of boxes from Seymour/Screen Excellence. I can't wait to put this thing together!





The second is the GOM fabric. Yards and yards.



Thanks again to Getgray for the screaming deals on these goodies!
vikgrao's Avatar vikgrao 01:58 PM 07-30-2013
Nice! how come i did not get a 20 pack with my GOM frown.gif Congrats on the SE screen!
GetGray's Avatar GetGray 02:38 PM 07-30-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by vikgrao View Post

Nice! how come i did not get a 20 pack with my GOM frown.gif Congrats on the SE screen!
Special July deal. wink.gif
Spaceman's Avatar Spaceman 02:55 PM 07-30-2013
Can't wait to see them unwrapped/assembled. I also wish I knew about the July deal when ordering my fabric. A 20 pack would have come in handy.
jedimastergrant's Avatar jedimastergrant 02:56 PM 07-30-2013
Dry fit for Media Storage and AV Rack

I put the slide out media storage rack in place for a dry fitting. So far so good.



Here is a view from the side. Both sides have shelves.



Here is a shot from the back.



I used heavy duty castors capable of supporting several hundred pounds each. You can only see them from the back.



I am thinking about using this handle for the front. I might change my mind though and go with a bronze color but I do like the shape of this one.



I bought heavy duty K&V 500lb slides. I am going to try to put one on the bottom mounted to the floor.



And one on the top mounted to the ceiling joist and the header. I hope it works and slides out without binding!



There is a permanent shelf in the middle on both sides for strength and there is another shelf on the bottom. So 2 permanent shelves on each side. Then I have an additional 10 adjustable shelves for 5 on each side. I have not bought the hardware yet but here are the shelves.



And this is a dry fit shot of the AV rack which I found not to be square with the wall so the platform will need some work.



Last but not least this is the sconce I decided to go with. It is pretty small and I will be putting it into the 4 inch panels and I am a little nervous about how it will all come together. I will get some better pictures of them when they go up on the wall.


jedimastergrant's Avatar jedimastergrant 03:05 PM 07-30-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by vikgrao View Post

Nice! how come i did not get a 20 pack with my GOM frown.gif Congrats on the SE screen!

The beer is Boulevard Unfiltered Wheat. http://www.boulevard.com/BoulevardBeers/unfiltered-wheat-beer/
It is my every day beer brewed right here in KC. I would recommend it to anyone. I toured the brewery a few years ago and it was really fun and informative. They say they only buy wheat grown in Kansas and my dad is a Kansas wheat farmer so I like to say that I am just supporting the family product!
vikgrao's Avatar vikgrao 03:11 PM 07-30-2013
Nice!
J_P_A's Avatar J_P_A 03:53 PM 07-30-2013
Looks awesome! I bet it feels like Christmas at your house! The FedEx and UPS guys are two of my favorite people! At least they are when my stuff gets here in one piece smile.gif

I like those fabrics together as well. You're going to have a great space, for sure.
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 05:55 PM 07-30-2013
Stopped by and finally went through your thread......nice job,

You will be very happy with the Seymour-SE screen, worth the extra coin. Guess I'll have to keep tabs of your progress! biggrin.gif
jedimastergrant's Avatar jedimastergrant 08:37 AM 07-31-2013
@JPA, Yes I have been a VERY good boy this year! I can't to see how the fabric looks once it is up. Should know in a month or so.

@doublewing11, I am very excited about the EN4K screen. It is an area I decided to spend more money than originally planned and I hope it will be a nice screen for many years to come. With my 9.5 ft viewing distance I really needed this fabric to make the weave disappear for me.

@Spaceman, I assure you it will be unpacked and finished ASAP and most likely the Boulevard right along with it!

Today I am working on the hvac return muffler. Mine is not a dead vent as it will ultimately be connected to the main return duct but I am attempting to create a muffler for it before it reaches that point. I will post some pics later if I make some progress today.
jedimastergrant's Avatar jedimastergrant 08:52 AM 08-07-2013
Rope light Tray

We just made our own moulding using mdf ripped down to small strips. This would not work for everyone but the aesthetic I am going for is more modern and minimal. So I think clean lines are the way to go in this case. My rope light tray needs to be as tiny as possible due to low ceiling and a small soffit. A large tray would look wrong. So it is only a few inches in either dimension. Just enough to hide the rope light inside.

First we put down a nailor with enough room below it to put in the second piece so that it would end up flush with the bottom of the soffit. We used lots of wood glue and a finish nail gun. It really helps to have 2 people for this job so you can line everything up properly.



Then, the second "bottom" piece was put in flush at the bottom and the corners were put together at an angle to fit together nicely.



Finally, the third piece was placed. We also cut angles on all of the splices and it ended up looking pretty good although I need to do just a bit of sanding with a few of them.



Here is a side view showing several stages of construction.



I plan to hard wire my rope lights in. This is connected to an Insteon dimmer. I still have not purchased the rope light and I am torn between bright color changing LED's and incandescent lighting that I know will dim gradually just the way I want it to. If anyone can help me I am listening!



Finished. But, not a very good picture and does not do justice to what it looks like in the room. I need to get a different angle for one thing. I am actually very pleased with how it turned out. I will get better pics later. Still need to sand and prime a bit more.



The other project last week was texturing the bottom of the soffits. I was planning on putting fabric on them. It would have been cool but just a ton of work and I already have so much to do with the fabric frames and all the rest. It would have probably ended up cutting down more of my soffit height as well assuming I used shallow frames. It is already low enough. Anyway, after the texturing was done I put another coat of drywall primer on those areas and kept on trucking.

But, I ran into a little problem with my can lights after the texturing (and actually before then even). The area where the trim butts up against the soffit is not always even and there are tiny gaps. Not to mention some of them are noticeably tilted. So my tentative plan is to get some 1/8'' black rubber or foam product that I can cut into strips and line the top of the can with it. That should fill the tiny gaps and allow me to put them straight. I hope no one will notice. Find out soon.
J_P_A's Avatar J_P_A 09:12 AM 08-07-2013
I may steal your soffit design! Why didn't I think of this. I've been trying to leave my light tray where my can lights are open. I can just box it in, and then put a very small molding around the outside of that! Sometimes the simple solutions are the hardest to find!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

........But, I ran into a little problem with my can lights after the texturing (and actually before then even). The area where the trim butts up against the soffit is not always even and there are tiny gaps. Not to mention some of them are noticeably tilted. So my tentative plan is to get some 1/8'' black rubber or foam product that I can cut into strips and line the top of the can with it. That should fill the tiny gaps and allow me to put them straight. I hope no one will notice. Find out soon.


I'm having a hard time visualizing this. Got a pic? I'm not sure what type foam product you are planning to use, but will it get too hot against the can housing?
jedimastergrant's Avatar jedimastergrant 10:28 AM 08-07-2013
I explained it wrong. I meant to say where the trim ring meets the soffit. The cans themselves were not put in completely straight. And then we kind of missed our chance to correct this when we were mudding around it because at that time I had planned on putting fabric on the underside of the soffit so I thought it would be all covered up anyway.

Here is what I am talking about. It is not severe but I want to do what I can to straighten up the trim rings and close the gaps that present themselves once they are straightened.

I don't know if it shows well in the pic but I can't get a good tight fit so as a result the trim is not sealed up well against the soffit.



Good point about the foam getting hot. I did not even think of that yet (I hope I would have eventually). The product I was thinking about using is to seal windows. The stuff I have is 1/16'' and has a sticky backing on one side. I don't know what the flammability properties are but I will need to find out. And maybe come up with another solution.

Here is the foam product.


jedimastergrant's Avatar jedimastergrant 11:15 AM 08-10-2013
How to make sure an extra thick door misses the jamb?????..........

Here are 2 pictures to illustrate my options. Door is 2 1/2 and then I will add 2 1/4 fabric frames. Would like to have a flush hidden door look. My side entry door swings into the room and misses the jamb with just a 3/16'' space between the door and the jamb on the latch side.

However, the other door in the rear needs to swing out from the room and the only way to do this and make the door flush with the sound envelope is to have at least a 1/2 gap on the latch side of the door. Obviously a large gap.

On the other hand I could set the door back in from the edge of the double 5/8 with gg assembly so that the door more easily misses the jamb. This would make only a 3/16 gap just like the other door. But, in this case my door would not be flush with the inside of the sound proof shell. So there would be a 4 inch gap or so on the jamb where the sound proof envelope is compromised. This also makes the door set back 4 inches and so I would not have a flush look. Not the end of the world in the rear of the room where there is a lot going on so it would not really look out of place.

Here is a pic of the door flush with the sound envelope. We would need at least a 1/2 gap in order to miss the jamb swinging out. We cut down a 2x6 to the thickness of the door assembly (panels included) and put it on a hinge so we could see where we would have to swing the door out to and traced an arc.


Here is a pic of the door set back in several inches which minimizes the latch side gap but makes the door no longer flush with the inside of the envelope.


So which of these options is the best compromise? Are there more options I am not thinking of? Will be putting the "best" zero international seals and door bottom on. They are 7/8 thick and are in the picture. What do you guys think is the minimum amount of that door seal that I should be catching?
jedimastergrant's Avatar jedimastergrant 04:21 PM 08-10-2013
Surround speaker compromise. Just like in my previous post I have another best compromise question.

I plan to have my 3 15/16 surround speakers flush with the 4 1/4 panels. I am kind of running out of options for where to place my sconces. I think the best place for them to go aesthetically is very close to where the surround speakers are. So I am trying to determine just how detrimental this could be to the acoustics. I thought about sinking the sconces into the panel to make the outside of the sconce flush with the panel. Then I would bevel the sides of the panel surrounding the sconce to a 22.5-45 degree angle. With this option there is no obstruction to the speaker but it may or may not look a little weird.

On the other hand I could place the sconce on the outside of the panel. In this case I am worried about the sconce obstructing some of the speaker. They are not direct radiators so that is a plus for this option. The tweeters as you might be able to see from the pictures are placed at the bottom of the speaker and are angled outward. They are the Triad in wall bronze surrounds.

Here is a side view of the speaker against the wall and the sconce placed close to where it would be below the speaker and flush with the panel. Should I be worried about the sconce obstructing the speaker?


Here is another angle.


Alternatively, I could place the sconce to the left side of the speaker and even in height with it. I am not sure if this is better or worse as far as the speaker is concerned (maybe worse). I need to decide by tomorrow!
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 09:41 AM 08-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

Surround speaker compromise. Just like in my previous post I have another best compromise question.

I plan to have my 3 15/16 surround speakers flush with the 4 1/4 panels. I am kind of running out of options for where to place my sconces. I think the best place for them to go aesthetically is very close to where the surround speakers are. So I am trying to determine just how detrimental this could be to the acoustics. I thought about sinking the sconces into the panel to make the outside of the sconce flush with the panel. Then I would bevel the sides of the panel surrounding the sconce to a 22.5-45 degree angle. With this option there is no obstruction to the speaker but it may or may not look a little weird.

On the other hand I could place the sconce on the outside of the panel. In this case I am worried about the sconce obstructing some of the speaker. They are not direct radiators so that is a plus for this option. The tweeters as you might be able to see from the pictures are placed at the bottom of the speaker and are angled outward. They are the Triad in wall bronze surrounds.

Here is a side view of the speaker against the wall and the sconce placed close to where it would be below the speaker and flush with the panel. Should I be worried about the sconce obstructing the speaker?


Here is another angle.


Alternatively, I could place the sconce to the left side of the speaker and even in height with it. I am not sure if this is better or worse as far as the speaker is concerned (maybe worse). I need to decide by tomorrow!


Hey, that sconce looks like Tony Grimani's Sonata DC2 diffuser but in a different artistic flavor!!!!!!!!



Seriously, most waves hitting the sconce will be affected by opposite wall speakers and those perpendicular to the wall of placement. Your wave reflection off the sconce from the immediate located speaker will be minimal.

You'll be fine..............
J_P_A's Avatar J_P_A 12:05 PM 08-11-2013
Can you bevel the latch side of the door? Would that help it clear the jamb when closing it? I suspect you would still need the same amount of clearance that you detailed above, but it would only be on the leading edge. The gap on the room side (the visible gap when closed) would be much smaller.
jedimastergrant's Avatar jedimastergrant 12:48 PM 08-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

Hey, that sconce looks like Tony Grimani's Sonata DC2 diffuser but in a different artistic flavor!!!!!!!!



Seriously, most waves hitting the sconce will be affected by opposite wall speakers and those perpendicular to the wall of placement. Your wave reflection off the sconce from the immediate located speaker will be minimal.

You'll be fine..............

We hit a snag today with some lumber that was not straight so I just bought myself some more time to think about it. That diffusor you linked does look like my sconce. I am still nervous about it but that alleviates my fears a bit. I am currently looking at a few alternate locations that give a little more space between the sconce and the speaker but still look decent. I think I will get away with putting the sconce on top of the panel. It will look better that way and be much easier to do.
jedimastergrant's Avatar jedimastergrant 12:54 PM 08-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Can you bevel the latch side of the door? Would that help it clear the jamb when closing it? I suspect you would still need the same amount of clearance that you detailed above, but it would only be on the leading edge. The gap on the room side (the visible gap when closed) would be much smaller.

We were planning to bevel the edge. Since the door opens out of the room we will bevel the trailing edge (theater side) I think. That edge won't show when closed because it would be pressed up against the zero seals. My worry was that I would have to shave quite a bit off of that edge and then I would not catch enough of the seal to do a good job with sound isolation. The seals are 7/8 but that includes the aluminum on either side.

Basically, we alleviate a ton of difficulties by moving the door out away from the room several inches. I asked Ted White and he said it would be ok to do that as long as I add material to the jamb with gg. Essentially, I would just be making my extra wide jamb an extension of the sound envelope. So the plan is to add 1/2'' material with gg. We lose an 1'' of door width but ya gotta do what ya gotta do. The door will also not be flush which is what I initially wanted but I think a recessed look for the door will be ok.
ScAndal's Avatar ScAndal 01:42 PM 08-11-2013
Awesomeness build
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 02:26 PM 08-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

We hit a snag today with some lumber that was not straight so I just bought myself some more time to think about it. .

Isn't that the pits.......ie. lumber that is not straight! mad.gif

I purchased KD No. 1's in all dimensions yet 70% of my 2 X 12's were crap.......ie. twisted, cupped, sucker knots, thick grained etc.! Being a small timberland owner, 30 years ago we would harvest 75 year old stands.........today we turn those stands over every 35-40 years and profit from thinning too. Timber isn't what it used to be................the days of fine grained timber are over!
J_P_A's Avatar J_P_A 02:55 PM 08-11-2013
Would something like this work?



I tried to exaggerate the bevel, but I'm wondering if you bevel both the jamb and the door at the same angle, would that let it clear while opening/closing, and still give you good engagement on the seal when closed?

If I'm misunderstanding the problem, let me know, and I'll go back to just looking at the pictures smile.gif
jedimastergrant's Avatar jedimastergrant 07:09 PM 08-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Would something like this work?



I tried to exaggerate the bevel, but I'm wondering if you bevel both the jamb and the door at the same angle, would that let it clear while opening/closing, and still give you good engagement on the seal when closed?

If I'm misunderstanding the problem, let me know, and I'll go back to just looking at the pictures smile.gif

Wow, I never thought of that. I don't know why it wouldn't work. We already laminated on the second layer to the jamb with gg so it is probably too late for me (darn). That's a great idea though. As long as the jamb is made very thick so that after it is planed a little bit you are still left with plenty of thickness. One would also want to bevel the door itself just as you stated so the smallest gap is maintained throughout the thickness of the door.

Oh, and I wish I could so sketch up like that! It would make descriptions like these so much easier. A picture is worth a thousand words. I hope others trying to tackle this problem can see your post and find a great solution to this problem.

Thanks JPA.
jedimastergrant's Avatar jedimastergrant 07:11 PM 08-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScAndal View Post

Awesomeness build

Thanks Scandal,

I saw the carpet you are about to install in your theater. The design is quite distinctive. Very classy. Can't wait to see the room after installation. I bet you can't either. Nice work.
jedimastergrant's Avatar jedimastergrant 07:14 PM 08-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

Isn't that the pits.......ie. lumber that is not straight! mad.gif

I purchased KD No. 1's in all dimensions yet 70% of my 2 X 12's were crap.......ie. twisted, cupped, sucker knots, thick grained etc.! Being a small timberland owner, 30 years ago we would harvest 75 year old stands.........today we turn those stands over every 35-40 years and profit from thinning too. Timber isn't what it used to be................the days of fine grained timber are over!

Yes, the lumber we returned was all "premium" 2x4, 2x6 etc. There were not many that were straight enough to use for the fabric frames. We did cut some up to use as blocking on the walls for the actual frames to sit on and around. But, now we are thinking about ripping 3/4'' plywood for the frames that way we know it will be straight.
jedimastergrant's Avatar jedimastergrant 07:35 PM 08-11-2013
Edmunds Optics?



It was suggested to me that I order an AR coated window from Edmunds Optics to use for the projector to shine through. It arrived and I was not suspecting for it to be BLUE!!!!! I have not contacted Edmund Optics to ask them about this yet. Does anyone know if this is truly what I am supposed to use? I am assuming that the light passing through would be distorted. Maybe I am supposed to calibrate that out of the final image?????

This is what I ordered. Window 8" x 10" Size 3mm Thickness, AR CoatingStock No. #43-974http://www.edmundoptics.com/products/sort_by_spec.cfm?productid=1919&sort=stock_number&order=ASC&accsort=description&accOrder=ASC

I will probably end up calling Edmunds Optics to get to the bottom of this but I thought I would ask here as well.
J_P_A's Avatar J_P_A 07:54 PM 08-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

........We already laminated on the second layer to the jamb with gg so it is probably too late for me (darn). .....

Sorry I didn't get to it sooner frown.gif

Once you get the hang of sketchup, it really is a handy little program. I've even used it for some 2D renders.

As far as the glass goes, I have no idea. Let us know what you find out from Edmunds.
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