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post #541 of 582 Old 12-31-2013, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Doug, thanks for the pictures! It is so hard to get good ones with the difficult lighting in my room.

I can't wait to hear what your dual Gallerhorns sound like with LMS Ultra drivers and a FP14000 clone amp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some major things happening in your room right now and if I can help please don't hesitate to ask. At the very least I can tell you all of the MISTAKES I made!


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post #542 of 582 Old 12-31-2013, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

My 228s and/or captivators always love to travel to demo sessions. tongue.gif

Don't chase someone else's ears agenda. (sometimes I need to heed my own advice - like when I recently bought the Onkyo PR-SC5508 preamp with XLR because carp could hear amp related speaker hiss that I couldn't hear from the seating position)



Woah! I'm the bad unfluence now!? I'm making people buy speakers and preamps you say? eek.gif



If not for you sir - and Luke Kamp, I would have thousands more in my bank account. It all started because I just wanted my svs sub to stop bottoming 3 years ago and you and Luke took it from there. Thanks to you guys now it's nothing but sore ears, empty bank accounts, and "strange men" (Kirstin's term) coming over to the house on a regular basis.


biggrin.gifwink.giftongue.gif



Ha. We both goad each other into excessive levels in this hobby.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #543 of 582 Old 12-31-2013, 07:01 AM
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I have a 7-350 hooked up to my x4000 with Monoprice RCA's, no hum. Each is on a separate dedicated circuit, a 15A for the receiver and a 20A for the amp. Love the amp btw. Just wow.
Mfusick likes this.

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Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
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post #544 of 582 Old 12-31-2013, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, stitch time to work some magic in my room then after hearing Carp's experience. Maybe this time I will actually save the XT32 setting after I run Audessey! We need to pick a time when there aren't good bowl games on.

Actually, that is something I hope to accomplish today if I can just get these crazy boys to go down for a nap at the same time!

Another task on the docket for today is cable installation this afternoon. Switching from UVerse which has had endless problems to Comcast who I have had before and was rock solid. Looking forward to trying out the new X1 platform.

Another big upgrade will be the internet speeds. They claim burst speeds of up to 250 mbps! That is insanely fast! I hope it is not just marketing hype. Should serve as a good stopgap until I get Google Fiber here in my neighborhood hopefully in 2014-15 as it was announced this year for the city of Olathe.


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post #545 of 582 Old 12-31-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

I have a 7-350 hooked up to my x4000 with Monoprice RCA's, no hum. Each is on a separate dedicated circuit, a 15A for the receiver and a 20A for the amp. Love the amp btw. Just wow.

I also have Mono price RCA cables going from 4311 pre outs to the PA 7-350 inputs. But, at the moment they are both on the same 20 amp circuit. I have another 20 amp circuit I can use so I will try to separate them and see if that resolves the problem. Thanks for the heads up.


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post #546 of 582 Old 12-31-2013, 07:36 AM
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If you are running Audyssey, please use a mic stand and not just put it on the tops of the seats. This will effect the sound in a very negitve way.


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post #547 of 582 Old 12-31-2013, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

My 228s and/or captivators always love to travel to demo sessions. tongue.gif

I've already a/b'ed my 228HT speakers to klipsch in the past and liked the JTR better, but I'll tell you the same thing I told scrappydue when we compared them. The Klipsch RC64 is a weak link. Like most center channels it starts sounding small and hollow when you turn up the volume towards reference. In your Klispch setup, your center is your weak point and if you had another full size tower as a center I think you could be done for speakers --- especially since you are otherwise happy with the Klipsch towers. Ultimately - remember - if you are happy with the speakers that's all that matters. Don't chase someone else's ears agenda. (sometimes I need to heed my own advice - like when I recently bought the Onkyo PR-SC5508 preamp with XLR because carp could hear amp related speaker hiss that I couldn't hear from the seating position) You have an AT screen. Do it. You could probably get a single matching Klipsch tower speaker for $300 or $400 ish used on ebay if no where else.

As to why the center is weaker sounding - I don't think it's comb filtering related as best I can tell. We stood Steven's RC64 on it's end during our 228HT and Klipsch A/B session, and you could do the same test in your room. To me the sound still sounded smaller/hollow when the Klipsch was placed vertically compared to the Klipsch towers when you take the volume up towards reference. I think the small sound comes on when the speaker begins being overwhelmed, rather than it being a comb filtering issue (which I think is a bit of a scapegoat concept). Think about how wide Sheldon's 212HT is and it's horizontal and it sounds anything but small.

Archaea finds another center channel he doesn't like....is that two now? :-)

That's a HECK of a lot more than two. eek.gifwink.gif I rarely like center channels - so perhaps take my opinion with a grain of salt.


The center channels I've liked are few and far between. In alphabetical order -

CHT Sho10
eD Cinema 12
JTR 212HT
JTR 228HT
JTR Triple 8 (haven't heard triple 12 center)
Yorkville 215 (L/C/R)

And a couple DIY builds...
MrSmithers DIY center from DIY assembly group (can't remember the model, but it sounds very much like the eD Cinema 12)
Seaton Sound Catalyst 8c (haven't heard 12c center)
DIY Statement center that belong to avsforum member Brausch.


I may have forgot one here or there, but I've heard a lot of setups and that list is probably pretty complete. The list of which ones I dislike is really long. Most centers sound small, hollow, boxy, tin'ny compared to the matching towers L/R. I may be a center channel snob. I probably went through at least a dozen centers in my own room before I finally had the eD Cinema12 which was my first center channel that didn't stink. The one thing in common with traditional center channels is that they sound fine at lower volumes but when you turn them up towards reference they start exposing that hollow, boxy, speaker sound -- assumingly when they start to compress, or become strained. The list above I feel can comfortably play at reference levels without sounding small.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #548 of 582 Old 12-31-2013, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Do you know where I can get a cheap mic stand nearby?

Or can I just cut a 2x4 to the right length and attach the mic to it?

Are you free to come tonight? Nwcgrad is in town tonight and maybe he could come too. I need to combine visits if I am going to have people here so my wife doesn't feel like its a revolving door every night.

There are good bowl games on wed thur fri and I am busy sat.


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post #549 of 582 Old 12-31-2013, 08:19 AM
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Unfortunately, being New Year’s Eve, I am already booked for this evening. But I could make time after work Thursday or Friday.


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post #550 of 582 Old 12-31-2013, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Unfortunately, being New Year’s Eve, I am already booked for this evening. But I could make time after work Thursday or Friday.

Oh man I totally spaced on that. Since we have the kiddos it is just not on my radar. How about Thur after work? There is a good game on at 7:30 that I will record and watch with a little delay and if you want to watch the OK vs AL game you are welcome to stay. But that should give us some time to do some tweaking.

I just got the X1 platform installed and I have to say it is a huge upgrade from their old software. Tons of changes for the better. Too many to list here.

My Uverse internet speed was giving me around 20,000 kbps and I just did another test and now I am getting 50,000 kbps. So quite a bit faster now and apparently this service is capable of giving 250 for short "bursts" whatever that means.

I should add that those speeds are what I am getting through my wifi. I have not tested a wired connection yet but I will have all of my gear directly wired in the rack.


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post #551 of 582 Old 12-31-2013, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

That's a HECK of a lot more than two. eek.gifwink.gif I rarely like center channels - so perhaps take my opinion with a grain of salt.


The center channels I've liked are few and far between. In alphabetical order -

CHT Sho10
eD Cinema 12
JTR 212HT
JTR 228HT
JTR Triple 8 (haven't heard triple 12 center)
MrSmithers DIY center from DIY assembly group (can't remember the model, but it sounds very much like the eD Cinema 12)
Seaton Sound Catalyst 8c (haven't heard 12c center)
DIY Statement center
Yorkville 215 (L/C/R)

I may have forgot one here or there, but I've heard a lot of setups and that list is probably pretty complete. The list of which ones I dislike is really long. Most centers sound small, hollow, boxy, tin'ny compared to the matching towers L/R. I may be a center channel snob. I probably went through at least a dozen centers in my own room before I finally had the eD Cinema12 which was my first center channel that didn't stink. The one thing in common with traditional center channels is that they sound fine at lower volumes but when you turn them up towards reference they start exposing that hollow, boxy, speaker sound -- assumingly when they start to compress, or become strained. The list above I feel can comfortably play at reference levels without sounding small.

Ha! Yeah, I was just giving you some grief since you are notoriously picky about center channels. Actually my list looks just like yours except I have not heard your bottom 3. The others are also the ones I have thought adequate.


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post #552 of 582 Old 12-31-2013, 03:34 PM
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Monoprice has a mic stand for $15 and mic clip adapter for $1.50, $10 to ship, or Guitar Center has one for $20 that you could pick up if it's in stock

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=115&cp_id=11508&cs_id=1150804&p_id=602520&seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=115&cp_id=11508&cs_id=1150807&p_id=602710&seq=1&format=2


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post #553 of 582 Old 12-31-2013, 04:46 PM
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Thursday is fine. I'll probably skip the game though. I don't follow collage at all.


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post #554 of 582 Old 01-02-2014, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Mic stand.



As you can see I sprung for the "pro" version.

Audyssey always wants to put my RF-83's as large so I went back and changed it to small. It also had the crossover on my center to 60 and my surrounds at 110. I think the sub was at 60 (can't remember). Anyway I changed everything to 80 but I might go back and play with it again. I feel like I can locate the sub at the 80 crossover so I might try to lower it and see what happens. Problem is I don't know if my future speakers will be able to play much below 80.

As per usual it wants to put the sub at a very very low level. I am not a bass freak but I needed a little more. First of all I went back down on the gain knob on the OS itself. This got rid of the hum that we were all hearing on Sunday night. Even after this change Audyssey still had the trim level at -8 and after a quick listen I changed it to -5. I am pretty happy with it there but I know I will tinker with that setting. If I want to shock people for demo's it will need to be closer to 0.

I can't tell a difference in the sound really so far but I have barely tried. I only calibrated to the main listening position. I listened to the Audioslave track that Carp said was harsh and I thought it still sounded harsh at high volumes. It is admittedly difficult to tell with rock music since there is so much distortion naturally present in the recording. The tracks from "The World's Greatest Audiophile Vocal Recordings" still sounded crystal clear at very high volumes just as they did before.

Tonight we are going to try calibrating again and might do multiple listening positions. Maybe even try integrating the second sub.


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post #555 of 582 Old 01-02-2014, 12:19 PM
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Tonight we are going to be doing multiple listening positions! I don't run Audyssey and leave it without and data to work with. smile.gif I like your mic stand but you reall want the mic to be pointing up at the ceiling.

I brought my stand so we won't have any issues there. See you tonight!


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post #556 of 582 Old 01-02-2014, 12:42 PM
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Do you have an SPL meter? I was going to bring mine but I don't think it ever made it into the car.


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post #557 of 582 Old 01-02-2014, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

Do you have an SPL meter? I was going to bring mine but I don't think it ever made it into the car.

Yeah the tape kind of sagged a bit.

I have an spl meter.


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post #558 of 582 Old 01-02-2014, 03:26 PM
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Everything looks great, Grant!. I hope to experience your theater some day and look at all the details.

I don't even have a center speaker and Archaea didn't like that either. biggrin.gif
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post #559 of 582 Old 01-02-2014, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Everything looks great, Grant!. I hope to experience your theater some day and look at all the details.

I don't even have a center speaker and Archaea didn't like that either. biggrin.gif

Yeah, we talked several months ago about having a KC theater tour much like the Omaha tour where I got to go to your room. I think we will put it together sometime this year I just don't know exactly when. If you happen to be in town though just let me know.

The Desolation of Smaug is back in the AMC Prime theater you went to. I am going to try to go this weekend. Very excited! For those that have never heard of AMC Prime here is a rundown:

"Recliner chairs that have subwoofers integrated into them so guests can “feel” the action they see on-screen
Dolby Atmos sound technology and JBL speakers surround guests on all sides for a world-class, immersive audio experience
A specialized screen that enhances the visual beauty of every film seen in an AMC Prime auditorium"

After the rave reviews from several scrutinizing fellow avs guys I just have to go. Here is a link to a discussion.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1506209/amc-prime-theaters-dolby-atmos-guitammer-seat-transducers-reclining-electronic-leather-seats

There are only 3 AMC Prime theaters in the country so we are fortunate to have one here.

https://www.amctheatres.com/amc-prime


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post #560 of 582 Old 01-02-2014, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

Tonight we are going to be doing multiple listening positions! I don't run Audyssey and leave it without and data to work with. smile.gif I like your mic stand but you reall want the mic to be pointing up at the ceiling.

I brought my stand so we won't have any issues there. See you tonight!

Tonight Stitch came over and we ran Audyssey XT 32. He brought his mic stand and I have to admit that it was superior to my "pro" version.

He needed to do quite a bit of changes to what the initial set up gave us of course. We both thought it was an improvement although we did not have a lot of time to listen. I am sure I have lots of tinkering in my future but I am happy with this first attempt at calibration. Thanks again Stitch!

I am considering just running Audyssey in my front row and forgetting the bak row altogether. There is such a radical difference in the bass response back there that I would think you are just setting up Audyssey to fail when asking it to even it out for you.

I really want to get omnimic in here again and see what is going on.


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post #561 of 582 Old 01-03-2014, 11:18 AM
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Well late to posting, but really enjoyed seeing the guys and checking out your beautiful new room Grant. Its a gorgeous space and you did a fine job.

First thing I notice in a nice acoustic room is talking with others in the room. The second thing I noticed is the excellent noise floor in the space and the soundproofing keeping unwanted sounds from other areas of the home out. This is something that will be much more apparent watching actual program rather than one bombastic demo after another. smile.gif This also makes the experience more enjoyable at lower listening levels and keeps you lost in the material and not taken out of the moment with a toilet flush...

Just a fantastic space and hope to get invited back for a flick sometime.

I agree on leaving audyssey out of the back row. I just don't like to compromise the mlp's presentation that is going to be filled and usually with someone that cares about presentation, especially using a single sub.

Congrats!
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post #562 of 582 Old 01-05-2014, 07:15 AM
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Jedi - what was your conclusion on the GOM Anchorage fabric for the walls? Obviously you thought it would work because you're using it and I would rather use it vs the 701 fabric. Some threads that I've read indicate its not as acoustically transparent as 701 but close. All good in your opinion though?

Thanks

David


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post #563 of 582 Old 01-05-2014, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Jedi - what was your conclusion on the GOM Anchorage fabric for the walls? Obviously you thought it would work because you're using it and I would rather use it vs the 701 fabric. Some threads that I've read indicate its not as acoustically transparent as 701 but close. All good in your opinion though?

Thanks

David

The Anchorage is AT enough for use in front of most acoustic treatments in most rooms from what I understand. It is not ok to use in front of speakers however from what I have been told.

I have FR701 on my front wall and proscenium. My surrounds are speaker grills painted to match the Anchorage. It would have been a lot easier to just use FR701 for everything but I understand wanting to use the Anchorage because it does look nicer. I am not sure it is worth the trouble for something that you don't see once the lights are out though. I do like the look of my room but if I had it to do over again I am not sure if I would do it the same way.

The Anchorage is very obviously not as AT and if you get samples you will discover this just by looking at it and doing the blow test.


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post #564 of 582 Old 01-05-2014, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

The Anchorage is AT enough for use in front of most acoustic treatments in most rooms from what I understand. It is not ok to use in front of speakers however from what I have been told.

I have FR701 on my front wall and proscenium. My surrounds are speaker grills painted to match the Anchorage. It would have been a lot easier to just use FR701 for everything but I understand wanting to use the Anchorage because it does look nicer. I am not sure it is worth the trouble for something that you don't see once the lights are out though. I do like the look of my room but if I had it to do over again I am not sure if I would do it the same way.

The Anchorage is very obviously not as AT and if you get samples you will discover this just by looking at it and doing the blow test.

So what would you do differently? Use 701 all the way around? Struggling to find a 701 that I like.


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post #565 of 582 Old 01-05-2014, 11:29 AM
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So what would you do differently? Use 701 all the way around? Struggling to find a 701 that I like.

I used Anchorage Onyx for fabric on screen wall only. Nice looking fabric but is not near as AT!!
Sub is only speaker behind fabric...........no issues.

I personally wouldn't use it elsewhere due to my testing .

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post #566 of 582 Old 01-05-2014, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post

Well late to posting, but really enjoyed seeing the guys and checking out your beautiful new room Grant. Its a gorgeous space and you did a fine job.

First thing I notice in a nice acoustic room is talking with others in the room. The second thing I noticed is the excellent noise floor in the space and the soundproofing keeping unwanted sounds from other areas of the home out. This is something that will be much more apparent watching actual program rather than one bombastic demo after another. smile.gif This also makes the experience more enjoyable at lower listening levels and keeps you lost in the material and not taken out of the moment with a toilet flush...

Just a fantastic space and hope to get invited back for a flick sometime.

I agree on leaving audyssey out of the back row. I just don't like to compromise the mlp's presentation that is going to be filled and usually with someone that cares about presentation, especially using a single sub.

Congrats!

Thanks Luke, it is good to know someone appreciates all the work that went into the soundproofing aspect of the room. It does make it a special experience when the door shuts and all of a sudden the silence is apparent. One of the big goals of the room was making it possible to just get lost in the material and forget the outside world. We must have realistic expectation though. For example if someone stomps on the wood floor directly above you are going to hear it if it happens during a quiet scene but the noise floor inside the room is pretty low. I don't know how low but I do know that it is much quieter than a non sound isolated room and it adds to the immersion factor.


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post #567 of 582 Old 01-06-2014, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

So what would you do differently? Use 701 all the way around? Struggling to find a 701 that I like.

I would consider using 701 all the way around in case I wanted to change surround speakers without changing the panels which is what I will now need to do. Good thing I have no plans to change the surrounds. The Anchorage does look nicer but few people will notice or care. You are probably your biggest critic in that regard.

The lighting is not very bright in my room which is another thing to consider. Not many people will go up to the fabric and scrutinize it. Once the lights go down it doesn't really matter. But, I do like the way the fabric turned out in my room.


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post #568 of 582 Old 01-06-2014, 07:06 PM
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I noticed. I thought the fabric made the difference in look of a DIY fabric and a professionally made treatment, whereas yours looks professionally executed even though it was your DIY. It is difficult to see how high quality the fabric really is in the photos. I'm not trying to be materialistic, but my first thought was "wow, that fabric looks expensive." I was so impressed with it. I am a poor judge though since I have not seen the 701, so I am partial to what you used in your room Grant.


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post #569 of 582 Old 01-06-2014, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_c View Post

I noticed. I thought the fabric made the difference in look of a DIY fabric and a professionally made treatment, whereas yours looks professionally executed even though it was your DIY. It is difficult to see how high quality the fabric really is in the photos. I'm not trying to be materialistic, but my first thought was "wow, that fabric looks expensive." I was so impressed with it. I am a poor judge though since I have not seen the 701, so I am partial to what you used in your room Grant.

I am glad someone noticed. There are so many things I went to a heck of a lot of trouble with and in the end very little of it will be noticed by most people. But, as a DIYer you are not most people.

The fabric on my front wall was FR701 but you might not have had a chance to look closely at it. And without the front cans on it just completely disappears………which is the point.


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post #570 of 582 Old 01-06-2014, 07:56 PM
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I agree with what Doug is saying, nothing about the room looked DIY to me.

The only exception (which to me is a positive since I would prefer it this way if it were me) was the couch in the second row. There is something about having a place to actually lay down, not just recline.

Things I was extremely impressed with:

1. acoustics in the room
2. beautiful/professional looking room - great lighting and colors too
3. AT screen with not a hint of holes/weave/whatever even right up next to it.
4. Incredible contrast, ha, I don't get blacks anywhere near that with my massive screen/entry level projector/bright room.
5. Chairs were so comfortable!
6. What a great decision to go with the Orbit Shifter! That pushed me over the edge into getting a transducer.
7. Great noise isolation from the rest of the house! Awesome!
8. Like I said, couch is the way to go.
9. Even without much if any tweaking I loved the surround.
10. 2nd row gets GREAT tactile feel - see #6 smile.gif


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