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82K views 777 replies 72 participants last post by  jedimastergrant 
#1 · (Edited)
Finished December 2013

Version 2.0 finished February 2017 added UHD and Immersive Audio plus added another Orbit Shifter





Equipment List:

Display:
JVC DLA-NZ8

Speakers:
Mains
(3) JTR Noesis 212 HT (original 3 way model like the current HTR model)

Surrounds
Base Layer- (4) JTR S8 Slanted LP
Height Layer for Immersive Audio- (4) JTR S8 Slanted LP

Subwoofers
JTR Orbit Shifter LFU (2)

Processor:
Arcam AV40

Amplifiers:
Buckeye Amplifiers HYPEX NC502MP 4 Channel
Yamaha MX-A5000

EQ:
Dirac Live with Bass Control

Sources:
Oppo UDP 203
Samsung UBD K8500
Apple TV 4K, Roku Premier Plus, NVIDIA Shield

Remote- Harmony Elite
Rack- MA ERK series

Screen:
9 ft wide (110")
2.35:1
Enlightor Neo with Seymour AV frame.
Purchased the masking panels for 1.78:1 content.









December: Slide out media rack done, Projector shelf done, AV gear installation
November: Electrical finished, final painting done, seats and screen, lots of shelving
October: Carpet installation, Rest of basement completed, Lots of work on doors
September: Fabric Frames and lots of painting
August: HVAC Return and Doors
July: Communicating door vestibule, electrical, pull out media storage
June: Subfloor, Stage, Riser, Projection room
May: Clips, Channel, osb, dw, gg,
April: Joist muffler completed
March: Subfloor treated with double drywall and green glue
4 20 amp circuits added to basement
February: Hired new contractors to help on weekends
Ordered lots of building materials
2012
November: Lots of demo
Completed decoupling of walls
October: Soundproofing materials delivered
September: Flood!!!!!!
Wall taken down again
August: Decision made to contact thesoundproofingcompany and do it right the first time
July: JTR Orbit Shifter delivered
Wall put up to enclose room
June: AVS Pro Theater Layout Service from the Erskine Group via Shawn Byrne delivered

First dedicated room with a front projector! I am utilizing the room layout service from the Erskine Group and started the process on 3-20-12.

Soundproofing:
Walls
clips and channel on ceiling
clips and channel on rear wall that is connected to stairwell wall.
existing walls were naturally decoupled from the foundation
walls that were built used staggered stud approach
all walls attached to ceiling joists using IB3's
Floor
3/8'' serenity mat
3/4'' plywood
HVAC
joist mufflers for supplies
return muffler to be made (done)
Doors
Zero International Auto door bottoms (best seals)
Zero International door seals
Solid core 1 3/4'' then added layer of 3/4" mdf with green glue between
Double door system as well with another solid core door and DIY seals

Lighting
12 cans in soffits inside of shell
rope light around soffit perimeter
4 step lights
4 Sconces

Automation
Insteon dimmers for a total of 5 zones
Insteon Hub

Dimensions:
Width 15'
Length 19' to rear wall. There will be a small "projector booth" between the HT room and the storage area behind which will house my AV gear.
Ceilings 7'9"

Here is a basic version of the plans from the layout service. My plans are now changed slightly from this layout. I will be making the length of the room 19' which means the small 3.5'x9' space in the back of the room where the projector is will be closed off making a "projector booth and equipment closet". Several reasons: the column in the back part of that space looked funny just hanging out in the middle of nowhere, I wanted to put the projector outside of the room for heat and noise and did not want to couple it to the ceiling bc the kitchen and 3 little boys are directly overhead. This also allows me to do my AV rack outside the room and not worry about the noise, heat, or light pollution.

Click in pictures to enlarge.









Video
Here is a video that will probably help to give a better idea of the space I have to work with.



Picture of the front wall where screen will be.


Here is a similar angle after the flood and some demo.





Picture from the front of the room looking at the stairwell and the space where the wall will go.



Rear of the room post demo.




Picture of the back of the room showing entrance to the unfinished storage area where the equipment rack will be.




Back of the room post demo.



I am ceiling ht limited in this room anyway and there is a support beam and a bit of HVAC duct in the front that drops down about 9'' from the ceiling.

Seating-
Front row is 3 Berkline Director leather theater recliners (Electric recline!) at around 9.5 ft from the screen.
Second row is a large 3 seat Natuzzi leather couch with recliners on each end along with a matching Natuzzi leather reclining chair so it seats 4 adults comfortably.

Sound Treatments-
As prescribed in the avs layout.
Quest Perfsorb at first reflection points.
The rest is OC 705 DIY panels. Several 2 inch absorption panels and several diffusion panels. Treatment on all of front wall is OC Select Sound Black.
Riser made into bass trap.
Ceiling (3) GIK 242 panels

Stage-
I am copying the Sunset Cinema stage. 1 ft tall and approx 5 ft deep. Filled with sand. Do what I can to stop the Orbit Shifter from shaking the screen (accomplished).

Projector Shelf
Would like to avoid a ceiling mount because of little feet in the kitchen above shaking the projector. I mounted a shelf to the walls with IB3 clips for decoupling and placed serenity matt on top of the shelf as well and no shaking so far.
 

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#502 ·
New Toy!


Here is an unboxing of my XBox One…….




The packaging was awesome. It reminded me of what apple does with their stuff.




The Kinect 2.0 is pretty large.




The controller is the best yet.




And to the box.




It is huge and full of awesomeness and I think it will look like a proper piece of gear next to the other components.






All the loot.




I will post some detailed impressions some other time but suffice to say my short term experience is amazing. This thing is awesome. I just love it and can't wait to really put it through its paces.


One problem………..and one that I knew beforehand. The usb 3.0 cable for the Kinect 2.0 is only around 10 ft so I can't put the XBox one in my rack. The connectors are proprietary so I guess I have to wait for them to release an extension cable and then attempt to run it in my 1.5'' conduit that is in my ceiling.
 
#505 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_c  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema/480#post_24126507


It looks great! Can't wait to see it. I'll bring my camera, flash, and tripod over Sunday and we'll get you some good photos.


Thanks Doug, that is exactly what I need.


Doug and about 5 other local guys are coming over Sunday evening for a GTG at my place. We plan to watch a bunch of demo material and I am encouraging everyone to bring whatever they are interested in and we can do as much as we have time for. I hope to have a good mix of movies, music and games too. I will probably give them a good look at how the XBox One and PS4 function as some of the guys are considering a purchase.


Should be a good time. If anyone reading this is local or just happens to be in town let me know.


I have not had time to do the automation yet. Too much going on at work and the holidays. Today is no exception so I won't have a chance to set up my iRule before people come tomorrow which is a shame. This GC100-12 and iRule and Insteon stuff is more time consuming than I anticipated.
 
#506 ·
PS4!








Looking forward to setting this thing up and taking it for a spin.


I did not buy the playstation eye and since the eye is not vital for the PS4's features (unlike the XBox One) I can put the console in my rack where it belongs and keep things nice and clean. On the other hand one of the more annoying facts about the playstation brand once again this console generation Sony is insisting on the use of bluetooth which forces us to buy an IR to Bluetooth converter if you want to use anything other than your controller. The converter for the PS3 was around $50 and that is an unreasonable amount to be forced to pay. Thankfully, I am planning to use the PS4 strictly for gaming this generation since I can use my XBox One for everything else. So I will only need to use the controller and I can save my 50 bucks.
 
#508 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema/480#post_24130516


Nice looking room and new toys. I wish I could make it over tomorrow. I bet your room will perform well.

NWC, I am secretly happy with the performance of my room. I have certainly heard better rooms that cost much more but I think I have a good balance of performance for dollar. I say secretly because the crowd coming over tomorrow almost all have great rooms that I have been to and it will be very difficult to impress them. They have kind of heard/seen it all. So I don't want to talk it up.


You will get to experience some of that at Carp's with his 8 x 18' sub package and the Noesis 212 front 3 blasting you into submission! Have fun. I know I do every time I go over there.
 
#509 ·
Some progress with the equipment.


The middle shelf will be a Comcast X1 platform DVR to be installed on Tuesday. The other equipment from top to bottom:


Sherbourn PA 7-350

Denon 4311

XBox One

PS4

Wii U/Wii

PS3

XBox 360



 
#510 ·
Great room Grant! I don't even think we have experienced the full effect of your room just yet. I think a little EQ will go a long way to help even everything out. Your Obit Shifter sounds great in that size room and your seats are some of the best I have sat in. I think you will enjoy your room for many years to come.
 
#512 ·
Beautiful room and love the unusual wall design.


Quick question for you regarding the Xbox One & PS4. How do you run the Kinect from your rack to the screen area? Does it need a special cable to connect them (like the Xbox360)?


Also, how deep is your false wall? And how far away from the screen to your seat?
 
#514 ·
Jedimastergrant,


I really enjoyed the demo in your room last night.


The room looks great! Great job on putting it all together.


My three favorite aspects of the room were the excellent lighting, super comfy seating, and the ridiculously powerful JTR Orbit Shifter subwoofer. I also loved your pull out media cabinet as well, and the projector was super sharp (one of the best images I've seen). Very well done! I appreciated your xbox one and ps4 console demo session too since I've not yet made up my mind which of the two I'll buy. I'll probably still stay on the fence until perhaps the first revision/price drop and see how things have fallen out. Most of my gaming is done on the PC these days. My 360 and PS3 don't see much use.


Tell your wife that her brownies were awesome too and much appreciated!


To those who couldn't make it for the demo - do so. It's worth the trip.
 
#515 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema/510#post_24135459


Jedi - do you still have a hum on the Sherbourn?

He does when fed from his Denon 4311 RCA out.


I did too on mine when fed from my Onkyo TX-NR1007 RCA out. I bought a Onkyo PR-SC5508 that has XLR out (balanced) and I'm feeding the XLR out to the XLR in on the Sherbourn 7-350 using monoprice XLR cables and my buzz has effectively gone away. (I can still hear it if I put my ear up to the tweeter on my JTR 228HT, but only from a couple inches away - whereas on the RCA I could hear it from a couple feet away).


I'm debating whether I want to keep the Sherbourn and SC5508 pre-amp. I can't really tell any difference over the Onkyo TX-NR1007, since my JTR speakers are so sensitive and I wasn't tapping out the Onkyo 1007 amps, and by selling the pre-amp/amp combo I could put the money to use elsewhere. (perhaps on LMS-5400 drivers?)
 
#516 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema/510#post_24135459


Jedi - do you still have a hum on the Sherbourn?

Yeah like he said I still have the hum in all channels. If it were not for my lower noise floor I am not sure I would hear it from my main seating position. I can still hear it a few feet away from the speakers. I plan to call tech support and see what they have to say. I don't want to sell my 4311 to get rid of the hum. I would need to get something with XLR outs on it to do what Archaea did.


I was told that the very large toroidal transformer might be to blame for the hum.


Another problem we discovered last night was my subwoofer has an audible hum even at the seating position so I plan to run XLR cable to it and I hope my 1.5'' conduit in the ceiling will be able to do so.


Like Archaea I am not sure if I could tell the difference between the PA 7 350 and the 4311 amps but I have never tried so there ya go.
 
#517 ·
I watched the Thor scene just now at my place because that was some of the best tactile bass I have ever felt at Grants sitting in the back row.


Did we have the speakers calibrated to 73 db's? If so that back row couch seat was 13 db's hot because I remember the omnimic read 86.


OK, in my room at -5 MV this is how hot I had to run the subs to get a similar tactile feel on that scene:



http://s232.photobucket.com/user/carlhungus2/media/Capture_zps9b36bc55.png.html


Black line is front row, Blue line is back row.



I also turned off all of my minidsp eq's except for the L/T boost down low. Even though the response isn't as smooth as with all the eq settings on the tactile fee seems to be greater.



However, what I don't get is why I have to be 25 db's hot to get the same feel?!?!?!?! When I'm at 13 db's the feel is weak compared to Grant's room.



Is it the room size difference? Listening positions more in the middle of my room? OS is king?


Or could it be that 60-80 hz isn't hot enough compared to under 60?
 
#519 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema/510#post_24135880


Beautiful room and love the unusual wall design.


Quick question for you regarding the Xbox One & PS4. How do you run the Kinect from your rack to the screen area? Does it need a special cable to connect them (like the Xbox360)?


Also, how deep is your false wall? And how far away from the screen to your seat?

The Kinect 2.0 cable is usb 3.0 with a proprietarily connector. It is approx 9ft in length and cannot be extended at this point in time. So right now I have the XBox One in the room which is not ideal. I am hoping that someone like Mono price is working on an extension cable and can hook me up soon. I have considered mounting it in the rack and just going without the Kinect for awhile as there are only a few games that require it. I think the voice and face recognition stuff is really cool when it works so I don't want to go without it.


I have conduit in my ceiling that I plan to run the cable through eventually.


Screen to first row is close to 10' but I am moving it up to somewhere between 9 and 9.5' mainly bc I want a bigger 1.78:1 picture. The 2.35:1 stuff is plenty big for me.


Back wall to false wall is 27'' but there is 2'' of treatment in the back. The 27'' is to the back of the framing 2x4 so the screen is actually several inches more than that.


Oh, and I really dig the panel design for your room!
 
#520 ·
Thanks for the compliments everyone. Last night was by far the most time I have been able to spend in my room.


A few notes on the audio.


First thing we noticed was that after I ran Audessey last week I apparently failed to save it so I was running without Audessey for Singing in the Rain……….Oh My! I did actually watch 2 movies last week with the family. I let them pick and it was Tron and Avatar. I thought it sounded great even though now I realize that I did not even have things close to where they should be.


So we did a quick manual calibration. The biggest thing I noticed afterwards during the demo's was that my surround channels had been turned up quite a bit and the surround effects were dramatically improved. I did not notice a big difference in the front channels after the manual calibration however.


For the first few scenes we had the bass run pretty hot. Way too hot for me. I played the Art of Flight scene and it sounded much worse than when I demoed it for my family previously. Then we turned it down some and I was much happier. I still have a lot of tweaking to do for sure but I may even prefer for it to be run like we had it for demo's and then tame it down a bit for every day use. The back row has huge gain and it was too much for me. Really felt it pressurizing my ears. And then when I lean forward things were better………….yeah I know………….I am a WUSS!!!!! But truly only a wuss in this crowd. We are talking about folks who have dual Captivators, 8 x 18" DIY's, and dual Gallarhorns with LMS Ultras and FP clones just to name a few for crying out loud. I think the fact that the single OS can impress any of them is a testament to that product and most definitely to the room itself.


I did not hook up my 12'' Rythmik yet but I am curious to see if it will be useful at all as a balancing sub. If not then it will be on to my first DIY 18'' sealed sub project. I can put 2-3 in the sub cubby.


The thing I like most about the audio is the sound stage. I am really pleased with it and it has great presence in my opinion. The Klipsch RF-83's are not expensive speakers and do have their limits but sound awesome to me in there. I actually don't feel the need to upgrade them but I know I will sometime anyway.


The worst thing is probably my horizontal center channel. It can't keep up with the mains and I might look for a cheap RF-83 off of ebay or something to try it out. Not sure if it is worth it vs just selling the RF-83's and RC-64 and looking for my "forever" speakers with a matching front row without messing around with the Klipsch. Don't get me wrong the center sounds ok to me and does not ruin the experience but it could be much better with a matching center.


The center seat was much better in my opinion than any of the others. I plan to run Audessey again and actually save it this time. We will see if that improved the seat to seat variation. However, there really isn't anything you can do to mitigate the comb filtering you get with a horizontal channel. That said, I will be in the middle seat 99% of the time and no one else in the family really cares like I do so maybe it is not quite as big a deal as what I am making it out to be.


No doubt there is lots of tinkering and gear changes in my future but bottom line is I really do enjoy the audio in there even in it's current state.
 
#521 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema/510#post_24136545


I watched the Thor scene just now at my place because that was some of the best tactile bass I have ever felt at Grants sitting in the back row.


Did we have the speakers calibrated to 73 db's? If so that back row couch seat was 13 db's hot because I remember the omnimic read 86.


OK, in my room at -5 MV this is how hot I had to run the subs to get a similar tactile feel on that scene:



http://s232.photobucket.com/user/carlhungus2/media/Capture_zps9b36bc55.png.html


Black line is front row, Blue line is back row.



I also turned off all of my minidsp eq's except for the L/T boost down low. Even though the response isn't as smooth as with all the eq settings on the tactile fee seems to be greater.



However, what I don't get is why I have to be 25 db's hot to get the same feel?!?!?!?! When I'm at 13 db's the feel is weak compared to Grant's room.



Is it the room size difference? Listening positions more in the middle of my room? OS is king?


Or could it be that 60-80 hz isn't hot enough compared to under 60?

Hmm, that is interesting. One thing I was really shocked with about my room is the amount of shaking that you actually get in there…..especially when it was run hot and loud! I mean I have a concrete floor which one would think will just kill all the fun but it doesn't. My stage is filled with 5,000 lbs of sand and has triple layer of 1/2", 3/4", and 1/2" with free glue between. Furthermore I have a damping layer of serenity matt on the floor and my riser was built with the same triple layers with green glue as the stage. The stage and riser are both decoupled from the walls.


Anyway, I am not sure if the tactile response that we are getting is coming through the floor or is there something going on with a smaller sealed room and getting some pressurization? I really don't know……just throwing ideas out there.


Another factor could be that I do have a lot of treatments in place for the bass. The front wall has 2'' separated with 3 mil poly and the riser is built as a bass trap.


It would be nice to see a waterfall graph to really let us know more about what is going on too.


At any rate that is a HUGE compliment coming from you!


And I loved that Thor scene too. I was my favorite of the night.
 
#522 ·
Grant your back row last night was perfect!
Re-creating that tactile feel in my room today was possible but then it throws the rest of the sound off since I'm so stinking hot with the subs to achieve what you have in your back row. I'm jealous.




One more thing about the Klipsch. I thought they sounded great... until you played music I'm more familiar with. I have long been a believer that hard rock/metal is very demanding on speakers especially as the volume goes up. I did not like how Audioslave sounded at all. It was very strained and harsh and seemed like the sound was breaking up. I think 228's in your room with how great your acoustics are would be pure heaven!


Sorry, I hope I don't offend with the Klipsch comments...
Maybe I'm just lashing out since the tactile feel in your room is kicking the **** out of my room.
 
#523 ·
A few notes about the picture.


I am very happy with the picture the RS-45 and the EN4K screen are giving me. My biggest fear was that I would have too dim a screen since there is no gain to the EN4K and the RS-45 is not exactly a light cannon after calibration. However, I really don't feel the need to have a gain screen and I am so glad about that since I am really sensitive to sparklies found in gain screens (yes even the Stewart). Right now I have done zero calibration to the JVC. I just put it into Cinema mode and I think it looks spectacular. I wouldn't even know how to improve it.


The manual masking panels from Seymour AV are really slick. Quick to put up and take down. I am sure an automated system is the bees knees but I don't feel the need to throw money at this right now.


Another thing I don't think I need to spend money on right now is an anamorphic lens. My pixel count does not appear to be lacking. The image is bright enough for me too. I am very curious to see how many foot lamberts I get. My JVC has 3 lens memory slots so I can switch relatively quickly between aspect ratios. I think a big part of this is I did not go overly big on my screen and instead decided to move my seating position up so I still have a very large viewing angle.
 
#524 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema/510#post_24137059


Grant your back row last night was perfect!
Re-creating that tactile feel in my room today was possible but then it throws the rest of the sound off since I'm so stinking hot with the subs to achieve what you have in your back row. I'm jealous.




One more thing about the Klipsch. I thought they sounded great... until you played music I'm more familiar with. I have long been a believer that hard rock/metal is very demanding on speakers especially as the volume goes up. I did not like how Audioslave sounded at all. It was very strained and harsh and seemed like the sound was breaking up. I think 228's in your room with how great your acoustics are would be pure heaven!


Sorry, I hope I don't offend with the Klipsch comments...
Maybe I'm just lashing out since the tactile feel in your room is kicking the **** out of my room.

Oh no big deal at all. Like I said before I fully realize that the Klipsch have their limits. It is hard for me to evaluate the music like you can because you have logged thousands of hours with the 212's.


I think the key comment is that as the volume goes up the speakers will start to break up and sound strained. I don't really listen at that level but it is nice to be able to do it for short periods of time.


I would love to have you bring your JTR Noesis 212's over here for a listen. We could even do a little blind listening thing since my speakers can all be hidden. I would like to have Archaea's 228's here at the same time.


Those two speakers along with the Triad Gold's and Procella's are currently at the top of my list but that could change.
 
#525 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema/510#post_24137125


Oh no big deal at all. Like I said before I fully realize that the Klipsch have their limits. It is hard for me to evaluate the music like you can because you have logged thousands of hours with the 212's.


I think the key comment is that as the volume goes up the speakers will start to break up and sound strained. I don't really listen at that level but it is nice to be able to do it for short periods of time.


I would love to have you bring your JTR Noesis 212's over here for a listen. We could even do a little blind listening thing since my speakers can all be hidden. I would like to have Archaea's 228's here at the same time.


Those two speakers along with the Triad Gold's and Procella's are currently at the top of my list but that could change.


Cool, I figured you wouldn't mind - and yes we need to do a comparison. Ha, my only fear is falling in love with how the JTR's sound in that room you may have a hard time getting me to leave!
 
#526 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema/510#post_24136534

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema/510#post_24135459


Jedi - do you still have a hum on the Sherbourn?

Yeah like he said I still have the hum in all channels. If it were not for my lower noise floor I am not sure I would hear it from my main seating position. I can still hear it a few feet away from the speakers. I plan to call tech support and see what they have to say. I don't want to sell my 4311 to get rid of the hum. I would need to get something with XLR outs on it to do what Archaea did.


I was told that the very large toroidal transformer might be to blame for the hum.


Another problem we discovered last night was my subwoofer has an audible hum even at the seating position so I plan to run XLR cable to it and I hope my 1.5'' conduit in the ceiling will be able to do so.


Like Archaea I am not sure if I could tell the difference between the PA 7 350 and the 4311 amps but I have never tried so there ya go.

XLR cable from an unbalanced output (like the RCA outs on your Denon 4311) is almost certainly no better than a typical premium monoprice RCA cable at noise reduction. The balanced cable needs a balanced input and output to be effective at eleminating ground noise.


My hum was eliminated to my subs when I bought an Onkyo PR-SC5508 and used the preamps XLR output to a balanced xlr cable to the xlr input on my pro amplifier. I've tried all the various cables -- RCAs have buzz. RCA to 1/4" TRS adapter has buzz. RCA to XLR adapter has buzz.


True XLR from input to output - no buzz from my subwoofers. (none - complete silence with my ears up to the 18" driver)


See the circled red connectors on my 5508. That's what I use from the pre-amp to monoprice XLR cables to the pro amp's input.

 
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