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post #631 of 664 Old 04-30-2016, 08:47 PM
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Waiting for this school bus to show. Hit k8500 thread. Still tons of people with Denon all have to run 2 cables. Funny that Marantz works when it's the same gui. Heck I bet most of the hw is identical! I guess fw must be slightly different.

@rboster , local kc guy is running a denon with rs500 and k8500. He's running two cables too it seems. He just posted it.

Some guy with 7200 and k8500 just posted on same thread that he downloaded a new FW for denon and it now works. I didn't see a new one available on your 7200.

Cable issue aside, which surprises me with the 9'. There's clearly a Denon HDMI issue taking place. Very few if any denon owners are successful with one HDMI. For once, I can't blame Sammy on this one!
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Rack (7.3.4 20,000W): Marantz AV7702mk2, Crown XLS1500 (9), iNuke3000DSP, miniDSP DDRC-88A (3), Samsung UHD HDR: UBD-K8500, Panamax M5400-PM, AppleTV Gen4
LCR: JTR 228HT (3) Surrounds: JTR S8 & S8LP (4) Atmos: JTR Slant8LP (4), RBH IC (2) Subs: JTR Captivator 1400 (2), Dayton UM18-22 NF PJ: JVC RS400 Screen: Seymour UF 130"W 2.35 Misc: SimpleControl, Philips Hue(15 light), Echo Control, Synology DS216play
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post #632 of 664 Old 05-08-2016, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoked21 View Post
Waiting for this school bus to show. Hit k8500 thread. Still tons of people with Denon all have to run 2 cables. Funny that Marantz works when it's the same gui. Heck I bet most of the hw is identical! I guess fw must be slightly different.

@rboster , local kc guy is running a denon with rs500 and k8500. He's running two cables too it seems. He just posted it.

Some guy with 7200 and k8500 just posted on same thread that he downloaded a new FW for denon and it now works. I didn't see a new one available on your 7200.

Cable issue aside, which surprises me with the 9'. There's clearly a Denon HDMI issue taking place. Very few if any denon owners are successful with one HDMI. For once, I can't blame Sammy on this one!
Sorry I didn't see this earlier. I should subscribe to my own thread!!!

Well, now we both know what happened but I will post here for those that might not. I bought the Denon X7200W. Denon has a program to upgrade this unit to HDCP 2.2 making it effectively the same as the new X7200WA. So they are out of parts at the moment but I will be sending it in to get the upgrade when they are back in stock.

That should allow me to use a single cable and more importantly to be able to use the GUI over lay.

And I also had a "bad" cable from BJC. It was the high speed FE series and suppose to be verified but it was not capable of passing the 4K signal with HDR so everything was downgraded.

Anyway, I just got 2 more cables from BJC and they both work! So I am in business with HDR. Using the 2 cable method until the Denon is upgraded.
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post #633 of 664 Old 05-08-2016, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Let me back up though and update my thread.

New items.

JVC DILA RS400

Denon X7200w
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post #634 of 664 Old 05-08-2016, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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The Denon X7200w was purchased mainly for the implementation of immersive audio (Atmos and DTS:X).

So..........drumroll please..........I ordered 4 JTR Single 8HT-LP

They will be delivered here June 5 when I meet Jeff at the KC speaker meet in the park.

I will use them as my base layer. I am still looking into good options for 4 speakers to use as the height layer. If you guys have some advice for me I would love for you to post it!

Current frontrunners for the ceiling speakers:

JBL 8320
Tannoy DI 5dc
Volt of some flavor
Beasts Radian project
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post #635 of 664 Old 05-08-2016, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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The JVC throws an amazing pic.

I recently had @desertdome come to calibrate it for BD and UHD. It came out really well. Incredibly accurate colors. This PJ is much brighter than my older unit. I can't tell if there is any drop off in blacks. One thing I will need to tweak is the DI because sometimes I notice it. He is sending me a calibration report soon. I think he said I ended up with around 40,000 on the contrast ratio. I am on low lamp on my 16x9 content for my 2.35 native 110' wide screen at 14 foot lamberts. He will be coming back in a few months to do another calibration to account for any lamp dimming.

I am looking forward to watching some more UHD content. Derek @Stoked21 let me borrow some of his UHD collection since I only have Enders Game and Mad Max Fury Road for now. Truly fabulous stuff.

The one thing I will mention about the RS400 is that it has too much lag to be a serious gaming display. I will be buying a second PJ and mounting it in the room. I am looking for something cheap, 1080p, bright, good motion, and low lag. Suggestions please!

I am trying to hold off on watching anything with immersive audio until next month when I get all of my speakers installed.
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post #636 of 664 Old 05-08-2016, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh yeah so the other piece to the puzzle is the UHD player. I bought the Samsung UBD K8500

Just getting used to this thing so I will get back with more of an evaluation later. It seems to take quite awhile to play content whether it is starting a video from Netflix or playing a BD or whatever.

The remote is small and annoying. I will be using some kind of universal remote anyway. I currently have iRule but it is driving me crazy so strongly leaning towards `Simple Control
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post #637 of 664 Old 05-08-2016, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
The JVC throws an amazing pic.

I recently had @desertdome come to calibrate it for BD and UHD. It came out really well. Incredibly accurate colors. This PJ is much brighter than my older unit. I can't tell if there is any drop off in blacks. One thing I will need to tweak is the DI because sometimes I notice it. He is sending me a calibration report soon. I think he said I ended up with around 40,000 on the contrast ratio. I am on low lamp on my 16x9 content for my 2.35 native 110' wide screen at 14 foot lamberts. He will be coming back in a few months to do another calibration to account for any lamp dimming.

I am looking forward to watching some more UHD content. Derek @Stoked21 let me borrow some of his UHD collection since I only have Enders Game and Mad Max Fury Road for now. Truly fabulous stuff.

The one thing I will mention about the RS400 is that it has too much lag to be a serious gaming display. I will be buying a second PJ and mounting it in the room. I am looking for something cheap, 1080p, bright, good motion, and low lag. Suggestions please!

I am trying to hold off on watching anything with immersive audio until next month when I get all of my speakers installed.
I heard this one is good and pretty quiet since you are putting it in the room.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/sony...tor_review.htm
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post #638 of 664 Old 05-09-2016, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
Oh yeah so the other piece to the puzzle is the UHD player. I bought the Samsung UBD K8500

Just getting used to this thing so I will get back with more of an evaluation later. It seems to take quite awhile to play content whether it is starting a video from Netflix or playing a BD or whatever.[/B]
Wow! Nice set of updates!! Dare I ask if you were able to tackle your HVAC re-work??

What you describe above with the Samsung player is why I'm waiting for a PS4.5 or an Oppo UHD BDP-*whatever* when it's released later this year. I might...might....even invest in a Kaleidescape strato instead of the Oppo, but that's probably just crazy talk.
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post #639 of 664 Old 05-10-2016, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDontee View Post
I heard this one is good and pretty quiet since you are putting it in the room.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/sony...tor_review.htm
That is a fantastic PJ but way more than I want to spend. I am thinking closer to 500-750.

I was looking at the BenQ 1070 or similar.

http://www.amazon.com/BenQ-W1070-108.../dp/B00A2T6X0K
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post #640 of 664 Old 05-10-2016, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Wow! Nice set of updates!! Dare I ask if you were able to tackle your HVAC re-work??

What you describe above with the Samsung player is why I'm waiting for a PS4.5 or an Oppo UHD BDP-*whatever* when it's released later this year. I might...might....even invest in a Kaleidescape strato instead of the Oppo, but that's probably just crazy talk.
Lots to say about the HVAC stuff so I will save it for another post. Suffice to say I had 4-5 guys out here both big outfits and small independents and none of them wanted to touch the project. The biggest adversary seems to be getting the lines clear across the entire basement. Half of that stretch is finished and it crosses several rooms. A big pain to be sure.

The only other option they offered was a second unit on its own zone which is cost prohibitive.

I am looking into taking outside air into the HT during the winter months. Currently it is warm here so it is nice and cool in the theater. I will revisit this idea in the fall.

I will also be looking into the PS4.5. I am a sucker for a new console. Even a mid cycle refresh. One drawback could be Sony's insistence on Blu Tooth. There are work arounds but just one more thing to worry about.

For now I am only using it for 4K content. I use my trusty old Sony BD player for everything else.
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post #641 of 664 Old 05-10-2016, 01:00 PM
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This is a good read if you are interested in getting that gaming projector.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector-input-lag.htm

As for your HVAC, I wonder if anyone ever rigged a portable A/C or is that just too ghetto and not enough power to cool it down?
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post #642 of 664 Old 05-10-2016, 02:41 PM
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Portable AC would be pretty interesting. If you reversed the flow of your inline fan, and had your side unfinished room conditioned by the portable one.... it's supposed to have external air I believe, but if you are sucking out the conditioned air to your theater, it would probably simulate the same thing. You should try that.
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post #643 of 664 Old 05-10-2016, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDontee View Post
This is a good read if you are interested in getting that gaming projector.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector-input-lag.htm

As for your HVAC, I wonder if anyone ever rigged a portable A/C or is that just too ghetto and not enough power to cool it down?
Quote:
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Portable AC would be pretty interesting. If you reversed the flow of your inline fan, and had your side unfinished room conditioned by the portable one.... it's supposed to have external air I believe, but if you are sucking out the conditioned air to your theater, it would probably simulate the same thing. You should try that.
Yeah, I think you guys mentioned that before and I kind of forgot about it. I am going to do some research. That could be brilliant. I would probably need to cut a hole to the outside to vent the exhaust.

The projector link looks really informative. Thanks for that. I will give it a read.

Last edited by jedimastergrant; 05-10-2016 at 06:47 PM.
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post #644 of 664 Old 05-13-2016, 10:56 PM
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I haven't checked in here in a while so forgive me if I missed the answer, but did you end up good night with the mini-split system?

If not, last I looked, Lennox offered compressors than ran 25+ seer ratings if you are interest in efficiency and quiet operation. It'll cost you a kidney though
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post #645 of 664 Old 05-14-2016, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDontee View Post
This is a good read if you are interested in getting that gaming projector.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/projector-input-lag.htm

As for your HVAC, I wonder if anyone ever rigged a portable A/C or is that just too ghetto and not enough power to cool it down?
Thanks for the article. I read through it and it was helpful to really quantify exactly (or at least close to) what you really need for input lag. I'm not good at video games and I don't really care about online. However, I can still sense the lag in the JVC RS400. And it kind of ruins the experience for me in platformers like the Mario games or 30 fps games like Uncharted. It takes this magical input structure that the developer worked very hard on and dulls it "just" enough to take some of the fun out of it. It becomes really obvious when you play something like Resogun. That game is hard enough without input lag.

So I am now considering a trade for the JVC RS45 I have listed in the classifieds. If someone has a PJ that is low lag for gaming it just might work out.

This second PJ is going to have to go in the room........... unless I do some more demo on the back wall and I would prefer not to go that route. Mounting it to the ceiling might be possible but I have very tight clearance since the support beam in the front of the room is there disguised as a light soffit. And another thing I thought of is I am going to put some treatments on my ceiling to help with the acousitics with immersive audio. So the treatments could very well get in the light path. Hmmmm.......
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post #646 of 664 Old 05-14-2016, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I haven't checked in here in a while so forgive me if I missed the answer, but did you end up good night with the mini-split system?

If not, last I looked, Lennox offered compressors than ran 25+ seer ratings if you are interest in efficiency and quiet operation. It'll cost you a kidney though
This is a tough one. I can't get any pro to touch it. No one wants to do all of the demo and refinish work. Some say it is just impossible to get the line sets all the way to the other side of the house.

I need to do some more digging into my HOA rules to see if they would allow the outside unit to be on the opposite end of the house. I doubt it though. They are like Nazis around here.

I have considered having the mini split compressor in the unfinished basement area and putting a hole in that room going to the outside to use as an exhaust.

Have also considered taking fresh cold air from outside only in the winter.

And then I need to do some research on portable AC units just to check them out.
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post #647 of 664 Old 05-14-2016, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Something that might be helpful here.

I bought the Denon X7200w awhile back. I did not know that there were 2 versions of this unit. The other being the X7200wa. The wa version has hdcp 2.2. After hooking up my Samsung UBD K8500 I realized we had a problem and desertdome pointed out that there were in fact 2 versions of my AVR.

So the good news is there exists a program for owners of the X7200w to receive the upgrade to hdcp 2.2. You only have to be responsible for the cost of shipping the unit to United Radio in NY. The turn around time is 48 hours from when they get it. Here is some more on the program. http://denon.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3799

So I sent mine in a few days ago and I eagerly await its return just in time for my upgrade to Atmos.
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post #648 of 664 Old 05-15-2016, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
This is a tough one. I can't get any pro to touch it. No one wants to do all of the demo and refinish work. Some say it is just impossible to get the line sets all the way to the other side of the house.



I need to do some more digging into my HOA rules to see if they would allow the outside unit to be on the opposite end of the house. I doubt it though. They are like Nazis around here.



I have considered having the mini split compressor in the unfinished basement area and putting a hole in that room going to the outside to use as an exhaust.



Have also considered taking fresh cold air from outside only in the winter.



And then I need to do some research on portable AC units just to check them out.

The outside unit as in the compressor? Maybe a loophole in the hoa contract that lets you mount it on your roof or in a shed?
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post #649 of 664 Old 05-20-2016, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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The outside unit as in the compressor? Maybe a loophole in the hoa contract that lets you mount it on your roof or in a shed?
Yeah, the compressor. Looking for a loophole but these guys are tough.

Having the compressor inside and venting to the outside is something I could at least explore.
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post #650 of 664 Old 05-20-2016, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking for immersive audio speaker options to match relatively well with my JTR S8 that I will use as my base layer. I need 4 ceiling speakers.

Placement will most likely be at the 4 corners of my soffit which is 9'' down from the ceiling. The area enclosed by the soffit is 9x12.5.

It needs to fit near the corners without people hitting their heads. Ceiling is only 7.5 feet.

For the speakers to be mounted flush with the ceiling I would need an aggressive angle to the front baffle. Something like 30 degrees. Not many out there like that unless you DIY your own cabinet which could be done but the driver depth needs to be considered and we have to make up the necessary volume somewhere.

(now if I want the MLP to be just barely inside the arc of dispersion I might get away with a 20 degree slant but I think some flexibility would be nice since I don't know what it will sound like yet)

Possibly a better option is to just use a ceiling mount that is infinitely adjustable and that way I know I can get good coverage. In this case I would prefer a smaller speaker. I did a mock up of the Volt 6 Atmos and the Volt 6 Ported using cardboard. Even though the measurements are not radically different there is a pretty big difference in the size of the box hanging from your ceiling. If I went with the Volt 8 we are getting close to a tall guys head........but maybe could still be done.

Options:

Volt 6 Atmos.
$135-150
dimensions 8.5x8.5x6.125
-small form factor
-but only goes to 115 hz (may not be a big deal)

Volt 6 Ported
$135-150
dimensions 8x12x6.75
-larger than the Atmos version but still relatively small
-good extension

Reaction Audio Axis 5
$229
dimensions 10x8x5
-Very small form factor
-good extension
-no assembly required

The slanted boxes for the diy sound group stuff look like they are 15.5 degrees and it just won't cut it unless I did not mount it flush to the ceiling. Would need to watch the depth though for peoples heads.

I would like clean to at least minus 8 which is where I almost always have it set for movies. Clean to reference would be nice but I hardly do that except for demo's.

Any suggestions?

Last edited by jedimastergrant; 05-20-2016 at 03:20 PM.
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post #651 of 664 Old 05-20-2016, 03:16 PM
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Are Volt8's out of the question?

Would be the closest and cheapest match to the JTR Slant8's. Next up would be the Concentric8's but those are roughly twice the cost.
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post #652 of 664 Old 05-20-2016, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Are Volt8's out of the question?

Would be the closest and cheapest match to the JTR Slant8's. Next up would be the Concentric8's but those are roughly twice the cost.
I would not say out of the question but I might have to do some kind of custom box. And I don't know if I can get the dimensions to fit as far as the driver depth etc.

The slanted 8 flat pack dimensions are
Angled surround: 11" wide x 15" tall x 9.25" (top) and 5.5" (bottom)

I need to confirm the 15.5 degrees but I don't think it is enough. So I could drop one side down form the ceiling to give more angle but I need to watch heads. Or build a box with the width very small and the length rather long. Then mount it on an adjustable mount from the ceiling.


Concentric 8 would be awesome and I was looking at this one too thanks to desertdome. I should have included it in my previous post.

dimensions are 11" wide x 15" tall. Top is 9.5" deep, bottom is 5.5" deep.

It looks like a 15.5 degree angle as well.
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post #653 of 664 Old 06-17-2016, 01:18 PM
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I just robbed a panera sandwich from grant to teach him how to solder!

Thanks for the lunch and the time!
Was fun!
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post #654 of 664 Old 06-17-2016, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I just robbed a panera sandwich from grant to teach him how to solder!

Thanks for the lunch and the time!
Was fun!
So yeah I went over to Derek's because I decided on the Volt 6 LX Ported for my 4 immersive audio speakers. I had never soldered and Derek is an old pro so he showed me the ropes. I think I know enough now to do the rest at home using his nice soldering iron.

While I was there I caught the first 20 minutes of Star Trek 2009 in 4K and Atmos. Derek's is still the best immersive audio I have heard. And I mean by a LONG shot! And this mix is THE BEST mix I have heard in Atmos. Derek and I talked about this but they are getting so much better at taking advantage of the technology. The gap is closing between the demo material and the actual content which is incredibly exciting!
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post #655 of 664 Old 07-21-2016, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Volt 6 Ported

I found my first DIY speaker project to be much easier than expected. The guys from diysoundgroup make it super easy with the flat pack. I got some instruction on soldering from Derek and away I went.

I had the opportunity to demo some of these back to back against the JTR S8 which I am using as my base layer surrounds. With music played in 2 channel there is no comparison. There is a depth present in the JTR that is not there with the volts. At high volumes the Volts break up and the JTR are clear as day. However, I am still extremely happy with these for how I am using them which is as immersive audio speakers crossed over at around 100. I can't tell any difference in sound quality as sounds are panning around the room. I typically listen to movies at minus 8 and they are very capable to that volume. I have done some demos at reference and I could not detect any break up even at reference.

[IMG][/IMG]


[IMG][/IMG]

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post #656 of 664 Old 07-21-2016, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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They were painted to match my ceiling to "blend in" as much as possible. I was also worried about big black boxes making the room look smaller than it already is.

I can tell you that regular old paint on a speaker is not durable in the least. It scuffs very easily so I would not recommend it. However, it serves me just fine because I am not handling or moving the speakers. They are a perfect match to my ceiling.

One problem is that they are targets for hands to push right on the cone! It is too hard to stop this from happening so I plan to get some grill covers for them.

I will get a pic of them on the ceiling shortly.

Last edited by jedimastergrant; 07-21-2016 at 05:15 PM.
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post #657 of 664 Old 07-21-2016, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I updated my first post with what I am calling HT 2.0

Here is a list of current equipment from the first post.

Equipment List:

Display:

JVC RS400

Speakers:

Mains
(3) JTR Noesis 212 HT's

Surrounds
Base Layer- (4) JTR S8 Slanted LP
Height Layer for Immersive Audio- (4) Volt 6 Ported

Subwoofers
(1)JTR Orbit Shifter LFU
(2) JTR Captivators (passive) driven with EP4000

Amplifiers:

Denon X7200w (now the "wa" version after the HDCP 2.2 upgrade)
Behringer A500 for 2 immersive audio channels not covered by the x7200

EQ:

DBX PA2 for subwoofer integration

Sources:

Samsung UBD K8500
TV-Google Fiber TV Box
PS4, XBox One, , Wii U

Remote- iRule
Rack is MA ERK series

Screen:

9 ft wide (110")
2.35:1
EN4K with Seymour AV frame.
Purchased the masking panels for 1.78:1 content.
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post #658 of 664 Old 07-21-2016, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to do some more updates here and lots more pics of the following upgrades

JTR S8 base layer

Mounting and positioning of Volt 6

Samsung K8500 UHD player

GIK 242 cloud above main listening position

JTR Captivator Passive subs (2) driven with EP4000 and EQ with DBX drive rack PA 2 for integration with JTR Orbit Shifter
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post #659 of 664 Old 07-24-2016, 08:13 AM
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Thanks a million Grant!!!!

I think it sounded excellent. Atmos takes time and patience to dial in but you have an amazing first go!

I would experiment with swiveling the top fronts down some towards front row. Toe-in the top rears a bit using your laser angle to maintain 45deg. I think you can improve the atmos to the rear row that way.

I nearly laughed when I said I thought the TF were 2db hot. And you said they are 1.5db hotter than Audy had set them. I don't know it all, but that's pretty telling. I also think the TR were a bit cold. Keep in mind I'm running DL so that's not req specific observation but atmos observation. Try running Audy very methodically. It will absolutely result in the best Atmos imaging.

By making these changes, you will end up with images in the room and throughout the room and above the room instead of all of it being glued to the ceiling. It will also result in a more immersive effect for all or nearly all seats.

Excellent job my man! I'm more than willing to spend a day helping you if/when you want.

Thanks again for hosting!

Btw: watching that first hour of BvsS again now. My blacks and contrast Are horrible compared to your room. That rs400 is excellent and my room just doesn't do it justice with white ceilings, beige carpets, and Windows. Very very impressed with your pq.

Last edited by Stoked21; 07-24-2016 at 08:17 AM.
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post #660 of 664 Old 07-24-2016, 08:41 AM
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The rs400 is extremely slow to sync. I curse it constantly for 20 seconds every time I have to change inputs or it switches to different Rez. If you can't get resolution on the issue with denon upgrade, I'd seriously consider the $200 HD fury integral. Not being able to access menus or see osd would drive me batty. Call denon. If there's no solution then oh well. But personally I would refuse to omit having an avr menu overlay....
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