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82K views 777 replies 72 participants last post by  jedimastergrant 
#1 · (Edited)
Finished December 2013

Version 2.0 finished February 2017 added UHD and Immersive Audio plus added another Orbit Shifter





Equipment List:

Display:
JVC DLA-NZ8

Speakers:
Mains
(3) JTR Noesis 212 HT (original 3 way model like the current HTR model)

Surrounds
Base Layer- (4) JTR S8 Slanted LP
Height Layer for Immersive Audio- (4) JTR S8 Slanted LP

Subwoofers
JTR Orbit Shifter LFU (2)

Processor:
Arcam AV40

Amplifiers:
Buckeye Amplifiers HYPEX NC502MP 4 Channel
Yamaha MX-A5000

EQ:
Dirac Live with Bass Control

Sources:
Oppo UDP 203
Samsung UBD K8500
Apple TV 4K, Roku Premier Plus, NVIDIA Shield

Remote- Harmony Elite
Rack- MA ERK series

Screen:
9 ft wide (110")
2.35:1
Enlightor Neo with Seymour AV frame.
Purchased the masking panels for 1.78:1 content.









December: Slide out media rack done, Projector shelf done, AV gear installation
November: Electrical finished, final painting done, seats and screen, lots of shelving
October: Carpet installation, Rest of basement completed, Lots of work on doors
September: Fabric Frames and lots of painting
August: HVAC Return and Doors
July: Communicating door vestibule, electrical, pull out media storage
June: Subfloor, Stage, Riser, Projection room
May: Clips, Channel, osb, dw, gg,
April: Joist muffler completed
March: Subfloor treated with double drywall and green glue
4 20 amp circuits added to basement
February: Hired new contractors to help on weekends
Ordered lots of building materials
2012
November: Lots of demo
Completed decoupling of walls
October: Soundproofing materials delivered
September: Flood!!!!!!
Wall taken down again
August: Decision made to contact thesoundproofingcompany and do it right the first time
July: JTR Orbit Shifter delivered
Wall put up to enclose room
June: AVS Pro Theater Layout Service from the Erskine Group via Shawn Byrne delivered

First dedicated room with a front projector! I am utilizing the room layout service from the Erskine Group and started the process on 3-20-12.

Soundproofing:
Walls
clips and channel on ceiling
clips and channel on rear wall that is connected to stairwell wall.
existing walls were naturally decoupled from the foundation
walls that were built used staggered stud approach
all walls attached to ceiling joists using IB3's
Floor
3/8'' serenity mat
3/4'' plywood
HVAC
joist mufflers for supplies
return muffler to be made (done)
Doors
Zero International Auto door bottoms (best seals)
Zero International door seals
Solid core 1 3/4'' then added layer of 3/4" mdf with green glue between
Double door system as well with another solid core door and DIY seals

Lighting
12 cans in soffits inside of shell
rope light around soffit perimeter
4 step lights
4 Sconces

Automation
Insteon dimmers for a total of 5 zones
Insteon Hub

Dimensions:
Width 15'
Length 19' to rear wall. There will be a small "projector booth" between the HT room and the storage area behind which will house my AV gear.
Ceilings 7'9"

Here is a basic version of the plans from the layout service. My plans are now changed slightly from this layout. I will be making the length of the room 19' which means the small 3.5'x9' space in the back of the room where the projector is will be closed off making a "projector booth and equipment closet". Several reasons: the column in the back part of that space looked funny just hanging out in the middle of nowhere, I wanted to put the projector outside of the room for heat and noise and did not want to couple it to the ceiling bc the kitchen and 3 little boys are directly overhead. This also allows me to do my AV rack outside the room and not worry about the noise, heat, or light pollution.

Click in pictures to enlarge.









Video
Here is a video that will probably help to give a better idea of the space I have to work with.



Picture of the front wall where screen will be.


Here is a similar angle after the flood and some demo.





Picture from the front of the room looking at the stairwell and the space where the wall will go.



Rear of the room post demo.




Picture of the back of the room showing entrance to the unfinished storage area where the equipment rack will be.




Back of the room post demo.



I am ceiling ht limited in this room anyway and there is a support beam and a bit of HVAC duct in the front that drops down about 9'' from the ceiling.

Seating-
Front row is 3 Berkline Director leather theater recliners (Electric recline!) at around 9.5 ft from the screen.
Second row is a large 3 seat Natuzzi leather couch with recliners on each end along with a matching Natuzzi leather reclining chair so it seats 4 adults comfortably.

Sound Treatments-
As prescribed in the avs layout.
Quest Perfsorb at first reflection points.
The rest is OC 705 DIY panels. Several 2 inch absorption panels and several diffusion panels. Treatment on all of front wall is OC Select Sound Black.
Riser made into bass trap.
Ceiling (3) GIK 242 panels

Stage-
I am copying the Sunset Cinema stage. 1 ft tall and approx 5 ft deep. Filled with sand. Do what I can to stop the Orbit Shifter from shaking the screen (accomplished).

Projector Shelf
Would like to avoid a ceiling mount because of little feet in the kitchen above shaking the projector. I mounted a shelf to the walls with IB3 clips for decoupling and placed serenity matt on top of the shelf as well and no shaking so far.
 

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#52 ·
New title to the thread!


I changed the name of the theater. It was never going to be called the Padawan theater in the first place. I just had not come up with a name yet and I decided to play off of my forum name just for the heck of it. It was a little bit short sited on my part but hopefully the name change won't cause too much confusion.


Sunflower State Cinema it is. I live in Kansas and I thought it would be neat to incorporate Kansas themes into the decorations in the theater. It gives me a large amount of themes to work with.


Plus....I think it just has a nice ring to it.


-Grant
 
#53 ·
A basic version of my theater plans were added to the first post. I am making an effort to revamp my first post after royally screwing it up the first time. Hopefully things are much easier to understand now.
 
#54 ·
To soundproof or not to soundproof. That is the question.


I would have to rip out existing drywall and the added cost would mean cutting something else from my theater. I am on such a small budget that it really hurts. My plan was to sell my Klipsch RF-83's and buy Procella P6's. That would be the first thing to go. The next thing to go would be the EN4K screen. I would need to settle for Center Stage XD and I would be able to see the weave at a distance of 9.5-10 ft.


I recently got a commitment from a few of my brother in laws for the labor so that makes this a possibility. I have twin 1 year old boys and another boy on the way Dec 4 so the soundproofing would seem a wise undertaking.


My plan would be the typical clips, channel, DD with GG.


I do not know how to address my HVAC system.


I have a call out to Ted White so hopefully he can get me straightened out.


Any suggestions?
 
#58 ·
Did I hear my name?!? Archaea and desertdome are correct, I did use the Seymour Centerstage XD. I tilted my screeen material 20 degrees and have not thrown the extra away. If you think it would be helpful, I could mail a chunk your way so you can get a better idea of what to expect. FWIW I sit 10'-6" from my screen and dont have a problem with the weave. You can only see it in white scenes and you really need to focus to be able to notice it - I never notice during normal viewing.
 
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#59 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by brausch  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema-formerly-padawan-theater/30#post_22243536


Did I hear my name?!? Archaea and desertdome are correct, I did use the Seymour Centerstage XD. I tilted my screeen material 20 degrees and have not thrown the extra away. If you think it would be helpful, I could mail a chunk your way so you can get a better idea of what to expect. FWIW I sit 10'-6" from my screen and dont have a problem with the weave. You can only see it in white scenes and you really need to focus to be able to notice it - I never notice during normal viewing.

That would be great. I have a small sample but something tells me I will get a much better idea of how the material will look with a larger chunk. I will PM you.


Congrats on watching your first movie! I just thumbed through your thread and I noticed there are a few similarities to what I already have and hope to do.


-JVC RS45

-Denon 4311

-Design of the stage (Sunset Cinema)

-Screen wall from Big's Minimalist approach to screen wall thread

............too many other similarities to list...........


Your thread is quite large so if I can ask a few questions.


1. Did you use a minisplit bc your main AC would not cut the mustard or was it bc of noise issues?

2. What made you jump onto the soundproofing wagon? (I am currently conflicted)

3. Any suggestions for me as I start my quickie build. Don't laugh. I know I'll be watch'n movies in no time!
 
#60 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema-formerly-padawan-theater/30#post_22242185


Brausch uses Seymour AV Center Stage X that is 110" wide. Don't forget that I've got some for sale that is 112" wide.

I have not forgotten. It may or may not work for me bc my goal is for a Constant Image Area concept.


If I remember correctly your material will very nearly work but it is cutting it close.


I want to do 9ft wide 2.35 image which will be 46'' high. I will mask the top and bottom.

Then to keep my sq ft the same I need a 1.78 image that is approx 54'' high. So I want to add 4'' to the top and the bottom and mask the sides.


So I will be making 4 friction fit or magnet panels. If I conserve enough height when I put the soffit around the support beam in the front of the room I should not have problems with the back row seeing the top of the screen with 1.78 format.


I have never put together a DIY screen so I don't know how much extra material I need beyond the viewable image area of 9ft wide and 54'' high.
 
#61 ·
Hey Grant,


I finally got a chance to come look at your build tread. Nice dogs J/k


Looks like you have a pretty good area to do your build. I am not great at coming up with ideas from pictures but if you ever need a hand or just want to hang out and brainstorm I'm all for it.


To help with your question on the DIY screen the more material the better. I would want at least 6" all the way around. But that will depend a lot on the design of your screen. The reason I say 6"s is you want enough to grab and pull out any wrinkles or waves that might develop on the viewable area. Again it will depend on how you plan to build your screen.


-Tim
 
#62 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema-formerly-padawan-theater/0_100#post_22243977


That would be great. I have a small sample but something tells me I will get a much better idea of how the material will look with a larger chunk. I will PM you.

Congrats on watching your first movie! I just thumbed through your thread and I noticed there are a few similarities to what I already have and hope to do.


-JVC RS45

-Denon 4311

-Design of the stage (Sunset Cinema)

-Screen wall from Big's Minimalist approach to screen wall thread

............too many other similarities to list...........

Your thread is quite large so if I can ask a few questions.

1. Did you use a minisplit bc your main AC would not cut the mustard or was it bc of noise issues?

2. What made you jump onto the soundproofing wagon? (I am currently conflicted)

3. Any suggestions for me as I start my quickie build. Don't laugh. I know I'll be watch'n movies in no time!

Jedi,


Sorry I missed this post before now. Here are some answers to your questions.

1. I used a minisplit because I wanted to be able to cool my room in the middle of the winter. When I bought the minisplit, I added a low-ambient controller that allowed me this flexibility. My family visited this past Sunday to demo the room a bit - with 8 people in there, it got warm quickly. If we were watching a full movie, I would have needed cooling. Because the space in in the basement (underground), there is not much of a difference between winter and summer in the theater room.


2. I went with the soundproofing because I didnt want to regret NOT soundproofing after the room was finished. Looking back, I am glad I did it. You are spending good money on your equipment (to me at least), so additional cost of soundproofing is not really that much. When comparing the noise level both inside and outside of my room compared to others, I can tell you it makes big difference - it doesnt work miracles, but it helps a ton.


3. Suggestions. I just reread your first post, just a couple things that jump out at me.

- good call on using the Erskine design services, thats the one thing I wish I had done...mainly because I am at the room treatment point and have no idea what I am doing

- I would make sure you have a heating/cooling plan for the theater

- the screen seems a little narrow for my taste, but that is more of a personal preference. I pretty much maxed mine out, and I feel like it could be bigger.

- if you soundproof, you shouldnt have to worry about footsteps shaking your projector.


I just subscribed to your thread, so if you have any additional questions you shouldnt have to wait two weeks for a response;)
 
#63 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema-formerly-padawan-theater/60#post_22285047


Hey Grant,

I finally got a chance to come look at your build tread. Nice dogs J/k

Looks like you have a pretty good area to do your build. I am not great at coming up with ideas from pictures but if you ever need a hand or just want to hang out and brainstorm I'm all for it.

To help with your question on the DIY screen the more material the better. I would want at least 6" all the way around. But that will depend a lot on the design of your screen. The reason I say 6"s is you want enough to grab and pull out any wrinkles or waves that might develop on the viewable area. Again it will depend on how you plan to build your screen.

-Tim

Tim,


You are welcome to come look at it and I think the more eyes on it the better. Things make a lot more sense when you are standing in the space. I am hoping to do some major work the weekend of the 18th. And I don't know what I am doing. If you do have time to help that would be awesome but I understand either way. No obligation.
 
#64 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by brausch  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema-formerly-padawan-theater/60#post_22285770


Jedi,

Sorry I missed this post before now. Here are some answers to your questions.

1. I used a minisplit because I wanted to be able to cool my room in the middle of the winter. When I bought the minisplit, I added a low-ambient controller that allowed me this flexibility. My family visited this past Sunday to demo the room a bit - with 8 people in there, it got warm quickly. If we were watching a full movie, I would have needed cooling. Because the space in in the basement (underground), there is not much of a difference between winter and summer in the theater room.

2. I went with the soundproofing because I didnt want to regret NOT soundproofing after the room was finished. Looking back, I am glad I did it. You are spending good money on your equipment (to me at least), so additional cost of soundproofing is not really that much. When comparing the noise level both inside and outside of my room compared to others, I can tell you it makes big difference - it doesnt work miracles, but it helps a ton.

3. Suggestions. I just reread your first post, just a couple things that jump out at me.

- good call on using the Erskine design services, thats the one thing I wish I had done...mainly because I am at the room treatment point and have no idea what I am doing

- I would make sure you have a heating/cooling plan for the theater

- the screen seems a little narrow for my taste, but that is more of a personal preference. I pretty much maxed mine out, and I feel like it could be bigger.

- if you soundproof, you shouldnt have to worry about footsteps shaking your projector.

I just subscribed to your thread, so if you have any additional questions you shouldnt have to wait two weeks for a response;)

I think I am going to sound proof too because once the theater is done it is nearly impossible to change my mind and I have heard that it can be highly advantageous if done properly.


The HVAC stuff is good to know. I don't have mine figured out yet but if I end up ripping out the existing drywall it will be much easier to do right.


The screen is 9 ft wide and I can't get much wider without running into viewing problems with the side seats (if I want to get in 5 seats in the back row) because my speakers are set in front of my screen and angled in. I could go a little wider (and I might) but my front seat is only 9.5 ft from the screen so that makes for a viewing angle of just over 50 degrees. That is a pretty big viewing angle. I like it that way but they do say that the screen always shrinks so maybe I should go even bigger.


Another thing about the screen is that I want to do a constant image area setup so the screen you probably saw was 2.35. My 1.78 image will be 8 inches taller (4 on top and 4 on bottom) but not as wide.


Thanks for the feedback. Keep'em coming.
 
#65 ·
Could you explain the constant image area concept a bit and the reason for going with it over constant image height? I ask because I am using a 16x9 screen now and am planing on moving to a 2.40:1 screen once I build my theater.


I have read a little about CIA but I don't fully understand it. From what I gather its a really tall and wide screen kinda like an IMax screen that you then will have taller 16x9 image and shorter by wider 2.40 image. Is this correct? How will you mask for each of these?
 
#66 ·
You can go as wide as your room allows or as high as your room allows, or both. In my room, I couldn't go wider than 110". If I had chosen a 2.35 ratio screen, for 16:9 my screen height would have ben only 46" instead of 62" and seemed too small. I decided to go with a 110" 16:9 screen. That actually now seems a little big for my viewing distance. If I had gone constant area (or close to it) my screen would have been around 2.08:1 and would have been 53" tall and 110" wide. I would have gotten the 110" width for 2.35 movies, but more height for 16:9 TV shows and movies. However, it wouldn't have needed to be as tall as a full 16:9 screen that is 110" wide.


You don't have to have constant area. You can actually choose whatever height and width you want that works with your space available and use the projector's zoom and vertical adjustment to fit anything into the screen by filling either width or height. You also only need to mask the top for 2.35 or both sides for 16:9 since you can shift the image to the bottom of the screen with different aspect ratio content.
 
#68 ·
Thanks Deserdome, the pics really help.


I currently have a 110" diagonal 16x9 screen and sit around 11' or so feet from it. This is about as tall of a screen I can comfortably fit in my basement. I believe my image height is around 54"inches. So in my next theater I plan to be around the same distance from the screen (around 12') but will be going CIH so my 16x9 content will still look the same as it does now but my cinema scope content will look massive around 130" inches wide.


I have wanted to go this route for a while but going to carps house does not help!!!
 
#69 ·
CIH, CIW, and CIA


Here is my take on screen ratios. Whenever you fix your screen ratio you have automatically relegated the "other" screen ratio to a much smaller size. I would much rather get a roughly 2.0 to 1 screen and then put both 2.35 and 1.78 material inside of that screen so they both have the same viewable image area.


If you experiment with a projector on a large wall and vary the image size of 1.78 and 2.35 content for long enough you begin to realize that both the height and width are important and that one should not be assigned priority over the other. I think it is more appropriate to keep the image area constant between the various ratios.


I have seen it stated after choosing to utilize CIH that their 2.35 ratio films are now seen "as the director intended". I think this comment is somewhat misleading. What the director actually intended was to display the movie in a certain format with a certain framing strategy. The size of 2.35 to 1.78 has nothing to do with this artistic choice. As long as that is understood, then I think it is fine that people choose to have their 2.35 content be larger than their 1.78 content if they have to make a choice. That is what I would do if I had to make a compromise.


I have also seen it stated after choosing to utilize CIH that their 2.35 ratio films are now much more cinematic and jaw dropping than ever before. Then they go on to say that their 1.78 films are still very "pleasing". Pleasing? Personally, I did not spend many thousands of dollars to have a "pleasing" experience while watching Avatar or Hellboy or Resident Evil or Band of Brothers or hundreds of other 16:9 films. I want nothing less than to be blown away by what I am seeing. I want a completely enveloping experience no matter the format.


Everyone makes a compromise. After the compromise is made it is difficult to admit that you made one.


I feel that CIA is the way to go and presents fewer compromises.


So my screen will be roughly 2.0:1 ratio. When viewing 2.35 films I will mask the top and bottom with removable manual panels. When watching 1.78 films will mask the left and right sides. The screen area will remain constant.


I think the ultimate screen would be an infinitely variable screen size so you could tailor the size to the quality of the source. It would require complicated masking system or a very expensive one. I might do it at a much later date but after I finish my room I won't have the energy.
 
#72 ·
Have you run riser height calculations? I was limited on ceiling height in my room. In order to ensure my second row viewers could see the bottom of the screen, I had to keep the screen high and wide. A big 16:9 screen is useless if the viewers in the second row can't see it.


I see you have a 7'-9" ceiling, so it might be worth checking into if you haven't. If you have, and it still works, then I think there is a lot of merit to your CIA idea.


One more thing to add, I would make it very easy to add/remove masking. I don't have any yet, but if it becomes a pain I think it would be easy to get lazy and not use the masking. Maybe having a projector with good blacks makes it seem allowable.
 
#73 ·
CIA would be very nice if you had a masking system, but some people do not want to see the black bars. Also it is easier to mask a scope. Screen.
 
#74 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema-formerly-padawan-theater/60#post_22299983


^ one could argue you are compromising on both fronts by attempting to meet in the middle.

Imagine a 2.0:1 screen that is as big as your wall. You can then use ANY size 2.35 or 1.78 image and use custom masking panels to frame the image. So you are not limited in size on either format! That is an advantage worth going with in my book. Maybe not perfect but better than CIH or CIW in my opinion.
 
#75 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by brausch  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema-formerly-padawan-theater/60#post_22300485


Have you run riser height calculations? I was limited on ceiling height in my room. In order to ensure my second row viewers could see the bottom of the screen, I had to keep the screen high and wide. A big 16:9 screen is useless if the viewers in the second row can't see it.

I see you have a 7'-9" ceiling, so it might be worth checking into if you haven't. If you have, and it still works, then I think there is a lot of merit to your CIA idea.

One more thing to add, I would make it very easy to add/remove masking. I don't have any yet, but if it becomes a pain I think it would be easy to get lazy and not use the masking. Maybe having a projector with good blacks makes it seem allowable.

Yes, I also have a ceiling height problem. It is VERY close if I want to have a 54" tall image for 16:9 content. I have the support beam near the front of the room and it complicates thing significantly.


When Archaea was over last time he pointed out that my room would look better if I just extended the soffit that will go around the support beam towards the front of the room to meet up with my false wall and screen. He is absolutely right but then that soffit would overlap with my screen by about 1 inch. I would also be worried about reflections off of the ceiling. I would have to cover it with black velvet or something but it is still worrisome.
 
#76 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5  /t/1398229/sunflower-state-cinema-formerly-padawan-theater/60#post_22300683


CIA would be very nice if you had a masking system, but some people do not want to see the black bars. Also it is easier to mask a scope. Screen.

It is easier to mask a scope screen for sure. I will have a masking system no matter which way I go. I will never see black bars. That would be unacceptable. My system will be manual removable panels. Either compression fit or rare earth magnets.


And like I said before, CIH is the compromise I would make if I needed to. I would just rather not make a compromise and have as large of an image that I want for any content.
 
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