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post #91 of 582 Old 08-21-2012, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Ceiling Demo Pics

The days carnage.

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Here is a shot of the bare ceiling.

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Another shot.

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Front of the room.

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post #92 of 582 Old 10-30-2012, 08:09 PM
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Where's the updates? smile.gif
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post #93 of 582 Old 10-31-2012, 02:39 PM
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^Yeah, what he said. I think you mentioned a flood at the meet, didn't you? Anyway, I'm subscribed now and I'll need to read through the thread to get caught up. Great to meeting ya!

-Greg
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post #94 of 582 Old 11-01-2012, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Flood!! Gruesome Pics follow.....

No not from Sandy. I actually got hit more than a month ago but I haven't had the heart to post about it until now after a little prompting.

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What a mess

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The offending sump pump has been replaced and I have also installed a battery back up sump pump just to make sure.

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I was able to save my HT gear but the carpet, pad, and bottom 8 inches of drywall are toast. Even the bathroom will need some work.

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I had a city dumpster delivered to my driveway and then continued to fill up that sum'bitch to the brim with my flood damaged basement. Oh, the dirty things that were coming out of my mouth on that day (more like a week). It took over a hundred hours working mostly by myself to clean it up and dry it out. Heavy duty carpet drying fan and dehumidifiers along with 5-6 more powerful fans and lots of work. (This is a different picture than the one I posted awhile back about my ceiling demo.)

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Umm, yeah, I think the pad is done.

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The rest of the house now gets to look like a bomb went off too from all of the displaced junk.

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Tons more pics but I think that is enough.

I hope that this will prompt others to do regular checks on their sump pump and do what they can for the grading of their property, installing french drains, cleaning gutters, and whatever else it takes to prevent a catastrophe like this. And don't assume that you have sump pump insurance coverage unless it is explicitly stated. I had flood insurance but the sump pump coverage was an extra clause that I mistakenly left out of my contract. A very tough lesson. Life can be a merciless teacher sometimes.

Next post. A look on the bright side!
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post #95 of 582 Old 11-01-2012, 08:47 AM
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post #96 of 582 Old 11-01-2012, 08:52 AM
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Flooding looks like a nightmare scenario! When we bought our house I could see that the uninished basement had been flooded regularly. Knock on wood that adding the sump pump, more external gutters and drylocking the basement walls will keep me from going through what you did.

The build looks exciting, nice choice of subwoofer. Shame about the low ceiling but I bet you make it look great. Let us know when you get it all finished and we can road trip from Omaha to check it out.

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post #97 of 582 Old 11-01-2012, 10:24 AM
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My sewage backed up into my house covering basement in a nasty funk less than a year after I moved in. Insurance did get most of it, but still a few grand out of pocket for line repairs outside of home in yard, so I can feel where you are coming from. Home ownership can be a pain sometimes no doubt.

Keep on truckin bud, you will get there eventually. smile.gif
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post #98 of 582 Old 11-01-2012, 12:05 PM
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Sorry to hear about this. At least in my case I didn't have drywall up the first time and the second time it wasn't as bad and we got the water out within about 45 minutes so everything came out OK. I have carpet down now in the theater area, so I'm being extra careful.

I wouldn't trust the bulb type floats on those sump pumps. I paid the $40 and switched mine out for the straight up and down float. Worked like a champ through Sandy. Luckily, we didn't lose power.

Good luck cleaning up. I know how bad it makes you feel, I been through it twice. ANd I DID have flood coverage. Not being in a flood plain, my coverage was only about $50 more.

Tom

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post #99 of 582 Old 11-01-2012, 12:20 PM
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Sorry to hear about that flood. Last spring my buddy had 42" of water in his basement. I was in the process of helping him refinish his basement at the time. When I went over to help with the flood damage, my air compressor was upside down floating across the room! Looking back on the deal it was kinda funny - not so much at the time!
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post #100 of 582 Old 11-01-2012, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Spaceman, that is way too funny! Your ceiling is fabulous and I dig the fabric you are putting up.

Nebrunner,
As some of you know I was able to attend the Omaha Home Theater Tour last Saturday and I had a great time. All five of the theaters had something unique to offer. But, there has to be a favorite and mine was Nebrunner's. I thought it was just the best overall package. I got a major kick in the rear after seeing your theater. I was also given a boost of confidence that I am headed down the right path with my soundproofing efforts. I posted some quick impressions in Nebrunner's build thread if anyone is interested. And I could say a lot more.

LukeKamp, that just sucks and at least ours was not sewage!

tLogan6797, wow 2 floods? Glad you came through Sandy unscathed and thanks for the tip on the floats.

Brausch, I can't imagine 42". Just 2" ruined most of our basement it seems.
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post #101 of 582 Old 11-01-2012, 06:23 PM
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So you said the flood was a few months ago; any updates since getting that mess cleaned up?

After some struggles of our own we are 90% done with the bathroom and I am just getting started on studding our unfinished side. I'll probably start a thread tomorrow.

I hope to see your progress soon.
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post #102 of 582 Old 11-01-2012, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Soundproofing Materials Delivered!

I have in my possession the following:

IB1 clips for the ceiling.

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Putty pads for electrical holes and whatever.

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Acoustical Sealant.

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IB3 clips to fasten my walls to the ceiling joists. And 3 automatic door bottoms.

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And last but not least. A couple buckets of Green Glue.

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I can't wait to put these to good use.

(Stitch1 I will get you what you asked for in a day or two.)
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post #103 of 582 Old 11-01-2012, 08:05 PM
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Very cool!

I am still debating if I want to do all the sound proofing or not. I am thinking about doing the celling and maybe the interior wall. I really don't want to give up the hight. I take it you will be doing all walls and celling?
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post #104 of 582 Old 11-01-2012, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

I am thinking about doing the celling and maybe the interior wall. I really don't want to give up the hight. I take it you will be doing all walls and celling?

Just wanted to address this stitch-if you are going to be soundproofing then you must do ALL the walls and the ceiling. If not, then everything will flank around and all the work and money put into it will be for naught.

I highly recommend doing the soundproofing though. To me, it's what makes my theater really special as it completely changes the experience of watching a movie. It's quite awesome to walk in the room and be transported out of your house and into a completely isolated space. Not to mention being able to watch movies whenever you want and as loud as you want.

Jedi; I'm sorry to hear about the water issues. That stinks to have to do all of that cleanup.

It looks like you've got a great space and I'm excited to continue watching your build progress! biggrin.gif

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post #105 of 582 Old 11-02-2012, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

I can't wait to put these to good use.

Haha, you will change your mind after you actually start using the green glue! Awful awful stuff! Effective though.

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post #106 of 582 Old 11-02-2012, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Just wanted to address this stitch-if you are going to be soundproofing then you must do ALL the walls and the ceiling. If not, then everything will flank around and all the work and money put into it will be for naught.

I highly recommend doing the soundproofing though.

I just want to remind everyone that the REAL goal of the DD+GG is to lower the noise floor INSIDE the room. I also highly recommend doing the "soundproofing" even if there are flanking issues for noise getting OUT of the room, my experience is that the beneift of lowering the nosie floor IN the room far outweighs the flanking issue.

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post #107 of 582 Old 11-02-2012, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I am glad you brought up the topic of the noise floor because it has been on my mind recently. I decided to do soundproofing mainly for keeping sound inside the theater so I could crank it to 11 without waking my kids and angering my wife (who will no doubt be in the kitchen directly above making me dinner.....ha! While doing some research a few weeks ago on the subject I ran across a series of posts by Dennis Erskine stating that the main purpose for soundproofing was to keep sound out of the theater and lower the noise floor. Say what? I spoke with Shawn Byrne last night who echoed the same emphasis on keeping sound out.

I had never been in a low noise floor theater until the Omaha Home Theater Tour last Saturday. There were a few theaters that did soundproofing and I was most struck by nebrunners efforts.

aaustin, you described the effect very well. As soon as you step into the theater it becomes immediately apparent that it is just dead silent and you are in for something special.

So most people (like me) become interested in soundproofing because the only way they are ever going to get to enjoy the theater is if it does not wake up the kiddos and make the lady angry. Then, they just happen to get the added benefit of superior acoustics. But, in reality it should be the other way around with the primary goal being to keep sound in and the secondary benefit being the kids stay asleep.

After experiencing this effect first hand I am all in and I will do what my budget allows.
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post #108 of 582 Old 11-02-2012, 07:45 PM
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Great point(s)!

-Greg
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post #109 of 582 Old 11-02-2012, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Stitch,

If you are down to the studs then I would really look at soundproofing. At least give Ted a call and let him know about your project. He will just be straight forward with you about the potential benefits as they relate to your room and budget, etc. He will not oversell you.

One thing to keep in mind is that arguably the most important aspect is decoupling. That does not necessarily mean clipping every surface. If your wall can be built with a gap between the studs and the foundation walls then that is considered decoupled by most people including Ted who stands to benefit by selling more clips but he is too honest to do that. You can go to greater lengths I am sure but I am guessing that is for a few extra percentile. Your ceiling on the other hand will probably need to be clipped and channeled unless you are doing some kind of floating double joist thingy or a true room within a room scenario.

My philosophy is it does not have to be ridiculously expensive in order to reap the lions share of the benefit. Now, if you are shooting for a THX certification for your room then I will grant you that is another ball game and you will need to do a good bit more than my meager efforts.

Maybe a couple hundred bucks for clips, a couple hundred bucks for GG, and DD is cheap, and so is your labor. Of course there are other considerations that are extremely important such as HVAC which I am currently struggling with but hopefully not for long.

thesoundprofingcompany has lots of great info
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post #110 of 582 Old 11-03-2012, 08:16 PM
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My studs do have a gap between the foundation walls. However they are braced to the floor joist above. I do see your points and will definitely give thesoundprofingcompany a call before I move forward with my project. I still have a bit to do before I am ready for drywall but I suppose I am ready to research my sound proofing options.

Sometimes its nice to have a voice of reason. I was getting really excited about my theater but I do need to take a step back and realize I can take it as slow as needed to do it right the 1st time.

I'm going to start on my thread so you can tell me everything I am doing wrong and point me in the right directions.

Thanks guys!
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post #111 of 582 Old 11-03-2012, 08:48 PM
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Sorry about the flood damage. Good decision on the battery backup. I live on higher ground but i still took no chances and installed one with battery back up and the other a water pressure powered pump, just in case the Electricity and battery fails. Wow 3 automatic door bottoms that is cool!
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post #112 of 582 Old 11-04-2012, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Before and After Pics.

Most people look forward to posting before and after pics when their HT is completed. But, we all have to start somewhere and I started with a finished basement. After some demo, a flood, and even more demo it seems that I am going backwards. I thought it would be interesting to see a different kind of before and after pic. Kind of like a before and middle pic really. It will make the day that I post the completed pics that much more satisfying.

I tried to match up the angles as best I could. I know it needs to be cleaned but wanted to post the pics first.

Looking at the front wall from the back corner





Looking at the rear wall. The right side is the stairwell. You can see the unfinished storage area beyond.





Looking at the right rear corner. You can see into the next room which will the be kids play room





And this one is taken from inside the kids play area looking into the theater room





Next time I will be looking at the bright side as promised.
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post #113 of 582 Old 11-04-2012, 06:23 PM
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Are you walling off the kids area or will it still be open?
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post #114 of 582 Old 11-04-2012, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Walling off the area. It will be a dedicated room. That wall will be part of a double wall system approx 1 foot apart to house a return dead vent and allow me to use a communicating door setup.

I would like to put some kind of a lock on the door as well although I am not sure about the safety factor. The lock would be on the outside door to prevent kids from going in. Unfortunately, it would also prevent someone on the inside from getting out. So I will need to find something that can be triggered from either side. The other problem is the lock would need to be out of reach for kids to prevent them from entering but I would not want them to be trapped inside and unable to reach the lock. So how would I couple the locks so that the lock on the outside is high and the inside lock is lower? Is there an easy solution to this? I really have not looked into it yet. It will be one of the last things I need to do.
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post #115 of 582 Old 11-05-2012, 04:15 AM
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Grant,

Well I finally made it through the tread from post #1. I like what I see thus far. Don't have any constructive comments at this point, but I am now curious about the soundproofing principle discussion. I definitely need to do some reading because I would think the same principles of keeping the energy from entering the room would keep the energy from leaving the room. [confused]. Looking forward to seeing it come together!

IMW
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post #116 of 582 Old 11-05-2012, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't think you are confused at all. I am no expert. But, I do think the same basic principles apply.

My earlier post was just to agree with logan in that the primary goal (if you are interested in the best possible experience inside the theater) should be to keep a low noise floor inside of the theater which means keeping sound out. As a welcome bonus you will also end up attenuating the sound leaving the room.

There would be some extra measures applied to those interested in a low noise floor vs just keeping sound in. One example would be slowing the air down that is moving through the ducts just before it enters the theater. An oft quoted number from Dennis is I think less than 250 fpm. This is feet per minute and not cubic feet per minute. Whereas cfm is a volume of air rating, fpm is a speed of air moving. More speed can equal more noise. And in a properly soundproofed room even once imperceptible noises will now become audible. Therefore one can use a plenum system to slow the air down just before it enters the theater. And the use of larger ducts to achieve high cfm at lower fpm is often utilized. Again, I am no expert and just learning as I go along. If anyone has any corrections or anything to add PLEASE chime in. I would love to get schooled. HVAC is an area of difficulty currently.

Even after I have just praised the virtue of a low noise floor I should add that both keeping sound out and keeping sound in are important to me because a theater that I cannot use while the kiddos are asleep would be more frustration than enjoyment.
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post #117 of 582 Old 11-05-2012, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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ignoringmywife,

I am thinking about doing a DIY screen with Center Stage XD. I was admiring your work in your thread with 80/20 and I was hoping to use it to build my screen frame. What do you think? It would need to be very strong and have some kind of a tensioning system attached to it. Maybe use 2 cross braces at the 1/3 points. Don't know exactly how I would attach the fabric to the 80/20. I guess I could use a grommet system. dunno.

btw I love the murphy bed. I have a small 9x10 room in my bsmnt that I would like to use as an exercise room but my wife wants it to have a bed. Could be the perfect compromise no?
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post #118 of 582 Old 11-05-2012, 08:43 PM
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FYI, I just got a quote for a 130" Wide 235 screen (Center Stage XD) cut with the grommet system and grommets. And it was a great price, the grommets would make life easy IMO.
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post #119 of 582 Old 11-06-2012, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Good to know. Are grommets considered one of the best ways a diy'er can prevent waves? I hope so because imperfections like waves or wrinkles would be a no go for me.

PM'd
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post #120 of 582 Old 11-16-2012, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Room Flip?

I have been considering a room flip to gain another foot or two. Tough decision so I thought I would post it here and see if anyone has anything to add.

I made an outline of some of my current plans and I will post some of them in sections so it does not get too lengthy.

A. Merits of flipping the room
B. Stage
C. Riser
D. False Wall
E. Electrical and Lighting
F. HVAC
G. Soundproofing
H. Sound Treatments

Here is the first one on the merits of flipping the room.

A. Merits of flipping the room

1. Advantages (Extra room length and other alleviated concerns)

a. The space behind my false wall is supposed to be nearly 32" and this space would now be mostly behind the stairwell wall giving me the made up space in the room. I was thinking that this space would be nice to have to keep the back row a little farther from the rear wall for acoustic reasons. It also gives me more space between the rows and lets me put my front row back another 6'' if I find that I can see the weave in my AT screen.

b. Having extra length would make it easier to build another wall alongside the stairwell wall for a complete decoupling approach with a double wall with insulation between.

c. The support beam that is currently in the front 1/3 of the room would end up in the rear 1/3 of the room. This allows me to have a taller image without sacrificing sight lines and it is also better aesthetically to have the beam in the rear 1/3 of the room. Then I could actually do another soffit down the middle breaking up the rear of the room into two large "coffers". This would make everything look like it was a design decision instead of an eyesore.

d. Currently there is supposed to be a door in the back corner of the room to allow access to the "hallway" area that is adjacent to the stairwell. This door makes it difficult to do a riser there and I would like to have vents along the wall boundaries just as you had suggested to make use of the area of highest air pressure. There will be a soffit above the door so there really is no room for a 1 foot riser and a soffit and a door. There is just enough room for the soffit. I had thought about making the riser only 6' tall just where the door is and that would mean making the door 6'' shorter which is not ideal. On the other hand if you feel we don't need the riser at all where the door is and we can still get good bass absorption then no problem.

2. Disadvantages (equipment closet, projector heat and noise, acoustics of
front wall)

a. A big unknown for me and one of the reasons I am willing to pay for your advice is the question of what the room flip would do to the acoustics of the front wall. Obviously almost half of the front wall would be essentially the stairwell wall and this would make the boundary of the right speaker closer than that of the left speaker. Since the stairwell wall is not quite halfway across it does allow a vertical center channel of moderate width to be unimpeded. However, the center channel would again be very close to the stairwell wall. The left speaker on the other hand would have much more space behind it.

b. My previous plan was to place the projector outside of the room adjacent to the stairwell wall and shine through a glass plate in the wall. I am also very concerned about vibrations from the kitchen above with soon to be three young boys stomping around on a hardwood floor (not to mention intense bass which I have seen happen in more than one theater). So my idea was to avoid hanging the pj from the ceiling and instead do a simple shelf that is affixed to the concrete floor. This would also take care of the heat and that particular pj puts out an immense amount of heat. In addition, the location outside of the room takes care of any noise the pj (or any future noisy pj's) will make.

- Ok, so if I flip the room I cannot put the pj outside the room and I will reintroduce heat, noise, and vibrations. I know I can build a hush box to take care of the noise but ventilating the box may be difficult because of the location of my supplies and my proposed return dead vent. And the vibrations part is still tricky. I would be clipping my ceiling so that would help. I was also
planning to use osb as the first layer for a substrate to nail miscelleneous items into. So I could also put IB3 clips into the osb to hang my hush box and or pj
from that for a little additional damping. I have also thought about using 1/4 inch steel for the floor of the hushbox to add some mass and reduce vibrations.

* Heat. I understand that if I have a very good HVAC plan it will take care of the heat. However, I do not think I will have the budget for a mini split system and I kinda doubt that I will be able to add another zone to my system. I am interested in both of these solutions and I have done a bit of research regarding them. I will detail those things later in my HVAC plans but I would much rather not introduce more heat to my room in the first place.

* Noise. My current pj is not loud but with a low noise floor it may be very loud. Also, in the future you never know what kind of noisy pj I may want.

* Vibrations. Even with the precautions I outlined I am still worried about this and it would really take me out of the experience.

c. My equipment rack location being in the storage area was really ideal and if I flip the room I would not have access to that storage area from inside the room. The only place I can put the rack and have it outside the room yet close enough for ease of use is somewhere in the wall that I will be putting back up. The only problem is that wall would also need to have the right
speaker along it, the door in it, and a column taking up space. The door is 32'' plus the casing. The column is 16''. The equipment rack would need to be I imagine at least 24". I would prefer to have some kind of pull out media storage next to the rack that would be around 12" as well. The speaker will come out an unknown distance but I imagine it could be at least 3.5 ft if that
distance is an important one for me. And the total length of the wall is a little less than 11 ft. So we are pushing it but we might be able to squeeze all of those items in there.

d. The actual length gained would not be quite 32". If I decide to do the extra wall around the stairwell then the wall will be around 4" plus DD and at least an inch between the walls so that would take up around 7-8''. Then if my false wall is made of 2x4's and it is located at least an inch in front of my actual wall that cuts off another 5" or so. The screen itself could end up about a foot in front of where the stairwell wall is. If we started with a total of 32" and take off a foot we end up with 20" of extra space to work with from the screen to the back of the room. If I take up 6" more by moving my front row back that still allows me to move my rear row away from the wall an additional 14" vs the previous configuration. I am not sure if it is worth it just for that but it might be.

I know it is complicated and kinda long but does anyone care to take a stab? I hope the pictures already posted in the thread can give you a mental picture but I can add more if it would help.
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