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post #1 of 50 Old 04-01-2012, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a contractor coming in later this week to start construction on our basement to build two rooms. One will be my 1 year old daughter's play room, the other is my play room.

Since it's in my basement, the only real noise I'm concerned about is the heater/AC which will be about 5 feet from the entrance to the room which will be about the same size, sharing the wall on the left side of the theater.

Since her room won't be used when I'm using mine, and the two outside facing walls are concrete, I don't see the need to isolate those as much and concentrate on the ceiling and back wall (the one with the door).

For the back wall, I'm thinking of going the full 9 with isolation clips + insulation + GG. For the ceiling, maybe isolation clips + just one layer of drywall + insulation. The main sounds I'm concerned with are the humming of the HVAC unit. I know it won't be perfect, but cutting down significantly on the noise would be great.

As for flanking, there are no vents in this room so i'll have some kind of ventilation from the theater into the rest of the basement to keep things cool. There will be can lights used but the direction of the floor joists is in my favor to block the noise transmission to them.



For the record, here's what i'm looking at.
Seating for 4 or 5, depending on what I can find for furniture.
100-120" screen. I'll tape the wall to see what looks best.
Likely an Epson 5010 projector
My current set of Monitor Audio SS Series speakers (towers, center, surround)
JBL subwoofer or something better X2 if I feel the need.
False wall to mount the screen/put speakers behind

Anybody have thoughts or tips? I've read most of the articles on the soundproofingcompany.com. Will going simple on the shared wall be a big problem? It will be staggered studs due to the width of the space between the walls (the center supports for the house will be enclosed inside, the beams are about 8" square.)
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post #2 of 50 Old 04-01-2012, 11:41 PM
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You'll need to treat all four walls and the ceiling the same in order to reduce noise. That means decoupling, insulation, double drywall, and green glue everywhere. If not the sound will simply move through the untreated walls and then spread everywhere else. You'll also need to seal all penetrations. That means lights, outlets, switches, etc. Dead vents or soffit mufflers will need to be used on the vents.

It might seem excessive but trust me one weak point and you will have detrimental loss in performance. You're trying to build a sealed aquarium. One hole and all of the water will leak out.

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post #3 of 50 Old 04-02-2012, 01:37 AM
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Hate to say it but the above is so true! There really isnt a way to just partailly do it. I chose to isolate my fishtank room way it wouldnt let sound out enstead of treating my theater. I really wish I would have done the theater but just didnt want to deal with all the labor that goes along with it! I do know that when HT 2.0 comes around then I'll just hire someone to add GG and another layer of drywall before remodeling. I can get to the can lights to seal them from above and I dont have any outlets in the walls just for this reason.

If you have the money to do it right the first time and are willing to do it right then I would deff do it. Your daughters play room will be used when you are using the theater, its just a matter of time. She will grow up and want to use that room with her friends.

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post #4 of 50 Old 04-02-2012, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaustin View Post

You'll need to treat all four walls and the ceiling the same in order to reduce noise. That means decoupling, insulation, double drywall, and green glue everywhere. If not the sound will simply move through the untreated walls and then spread everywhere else. You'll also need to seal all penetrations. That means lights, outlets, switches, etc. Dead vents or soffit mufflers will need to be used on the vents.

It might seem excessive but trust me one weak point and you will have detrimental loss in performance. You're trying to build a sealed aquarium. One hole and all of the water will leak out.

I'm not sure how sound will transmit through cement and enter the room through the back wall.

This setup is a compromise, we're not touching the two exterior facing walls for several reasons. I did some testing last night with my rack of computer equipment unplugged and the HVAC off and it was around 30 dB. With either of those on it went up to 50 dB. Thanks for the advice, but I'm going to concentrate on where I'll get the best bang for the buck.

The good thing about the wall to my daughter's room is that it's already decoupled via staggered studs, so adding a second layer of drywall + GG if needed in the future will be a snap.
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post #5 of 50 Old 04-02-2012, 07:08 AM
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Sound will travel through the walls next to the concrete and then up through the floor joists or off to the sides. In addition to this sound will travel down from the floor joists or off to the side into the theater.

I understand that you're compromising but it is pointless to spend the time and money on clips, channel and everything else for one wall only to have a completely exposed wall right next to it. It's like building a closet with clips, channel, green glue, and insulation only to put a louvered bifold door on.

Take my advice or not but I'm telling you the truth as I've done all of this before. Do a search on the forum for something like "soundproofing one wall" and you'll see that others agree with what I am saying.

Contact Ted White via pm or through the soundproofing company and he'll help you make the most effective plan to fit your budget.

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post #6 of 50 Old 04-02-2012, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Craaaaaap. Ok, all 4 walls need to be done now. I just checked behind the two outside walls and they're actually just 1/4" plywood paneling somehow nailed directly to stucco. Without the paneling, it looks like a damn rape dungeon.

Talked to the wife and I'm going the full 9 on the HT walls and just framing/insulating/dry-walling the playroom.

I think my contractor is going to have a coronary tomorrow when I tell him that essentially there is double work.
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post #7 of 50 Old 04-02-2012, 08:37 PM
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Good choice. Don't forget about the ceiling too.

Consider doing room within a room construction for the walls instead of clips. You'd have to price it out but it might be cheaper. Also remember that next to foundation walls you only need to frame a standard 2x4 wall spaced 1" from the foundation to decouple. Then obviously still cover with insulation and DD+GG.

Don't forget about your penetrations. Lights will need to be sealed and outlets will need putty pads. Even better locate all of the outlets within the stage, riser, or columns (if you're doing them) and utilize sconces or recessed lights in soffits after the room is drywalled to eliminate all of those penetrations.

Don't forget about your holes for ventilation either. Its these types of things that are often overlooked but are an integral part of the whole system.

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post #8 of 50 Old 04-02-2012, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaustin View Post

Good choice. Don't forget about the ceiling too.

Consider doing room within a room construction for the walls instead of clips. You'd have to price it out but it might be cheaper. Also remember that next to foundation walls you only need to frame a standard 2x4 wall spaced 1" from the foundation to decouple. Then obviously still cover with insulation and DD+GG.

Don't forget about your penetrations. Lights will need to be sealed and outlets will need putty pads. Even better locate all of the outlets within the stage, riser, or columns (if you're doing them) and utilize sconces or recessed lights in soffits after the room is drywalled to eliminate all of those penetrations.

Don't forget about your holes for ventilation either. Its these types of things that are often overlooked but are an integral part of the whole system.

I think you missed the dimensions of this room. I'll be lucky to not be ducking when I enter, soffits are a definite no-go. I'll make sure the room is air tight, it will be fun.
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post #9 of 50 Old 04-02-2012, 09:30 PM
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I must have missed the ceiling height dimension. I agree soffits probably won't work then.

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post #10 of 50 Old 04-03-2012, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Construction started and the order was placed with The Soundproofing Company for GG, V-clips, IB-3's and acoustic sealant. Here are the obligatory starting pics:

Shot of the area in question. Notice the low ceilings.


Another angle, notice the ductwork that is all luckily on one side of the house.

LL
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post #11 of 50 Old 04-04-2012, 04:57 AM
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Whats the height under the center beam? Your project reminds me of my basement, I had to knock out a portion of my center beam and recess it up into the joists just to create my entrance. I ended up with a finished ceiling height of 74". Are you putting dricore or similar on the floor? Could the duct work be relocated to the outside wall?
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post #12 of 50 Old 04-04-2012, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Whats the height under the center beam? Your project reminds me of my basement, I had to knock out a portion of my center beam and recess it up into the joists just to create my entrance. I ended up with a finished ceiling height of 74". Are you putting dricore or similar on the floor? Could the duct work be relocated to the outside wall?

No dricore planned, going with carpet. The entrance will be on the short end, so the beam won't matter. I was thinking about doing the vent on the outside too, definitely easier.
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post #13 of 50 Old 04-04-2012, 08:07 AM
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I am building my theater now in my basement, which never has had water problems, but I drylocked the walls again and used certainteed platon (comparable and cheaper than dricore) to be a double safe to not ever have to worry. it is a good investment for piece of mind!
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post #14 of 50 Old 04-04-2012, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I am building my theater now in my basement, which never has had water problems, but I drylocked the walls again and used certainteed platon (comparable and cheaper than dricore) to be a double safe to not ever have to worry. it is a good investment for piece of mind!

My house is in a location with no water issues. It's an English basement on the high ground, we don't even have a sump pump.
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post #15 of 50 Old 04-04-2012, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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We're going to be running the wiring tomorrow before my contractor starts on the drywall, so it's time to figure out the seating/projector/speaker locations.

Using the HTA Designer app, I should have a 110" screen with a viewing distance of 11'. With my 2 1/2' false wall, that will leave me with about 6 feet behind the couch or whatever if I wanted to install a riser and a second row. The room is really damn narrow at around 8'6" after the new walls and drywall so I can only do 2 rows of two, which is likely enough. What I'm not sure about is if the 6' is enough to have a comfortable second row. Also, if I do that, I definitely won't have enough room for a second subwoofer on that end, although I could easily fit it up front.

Second is projector location. From what I've seen, I'll want to put above and just behind the first row so it's unlikely that someone will head butt it. I'm probably going to get an Epson 5010 which has a pretty flexible throw distance. The plan is to attach some sort of plywood to the furring channels in the ceiling for a secure mount. Is that a bad idea for any reason?

Here's a rendering for what I have so far. The blue panel is for absorption, the entrance will be at the rear.

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post #16 of 50 Old 04-04-2012, 09:19 PM
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A six foot riser is going to be tight for home theater recliners. I've see 6.5 feet recommended by people around the forum but you might consider going with 7 feet to be safe.

Is the door on the back wall or on one of the side walls in the back? Either way having the entrance in the rear is another reason why a bigger riser is likely necessary.

Putting a piece of plywood or OSB attached to the channel at the projector location is a good idea. You might also consider doing the entire first layer with 3/4" OSB. I have seen that done quite a few times as it makes it really easy to secure things later and put the second layer of drywall up since you can screw anywhere.

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post #17 of 50 Old 04-04-2012, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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A six foot riser is going to be tight for home theater recliners. I've see 6.5 feet recommended by people around the forum but you might consider going with 7 feet to be safe.

Is the door on the back wall or on one of the side walls in the back? Either way having the entrance in the rear is another reason why a bigger riser is likely necessary.

Putting a piece of plywood or OSB attached to the channel at the projector location is a good idea. You might also consider doing the entire first layer with 3/4" OSB. I have seen that done quite a few times as it makes it really easy to secure things later and put the second layer of drywall up since you can screw anywhere.

Good idea. At the very least I could have him use it for the piece over the seating so I can put the projector anywhere.

Is it such a bad thing to have one row a few feet closer to allow for a second row? I suppose I could drop the screen size down a bit, after all, the suggestion is to not even buy a screen until everything else is in place.
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post #18 of 50 Old 04-04-2012, 09:49 PM
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I personally would move that first row forward about a foot. I wouldn't get too hung up on the screen size yet as it's a personal preference and as long as your projector can throw an image to the largest size you'd want it to be you can always scale it back if it is too big.

Have you tried taping mock-ups of various screen sizes on the wall and testing different viewing distances. That really is the best way to determine what you like. I never rely on the online calculators since I always seem to like it bigger than their recommendation anyways.

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post #19 of 50 Old 04-04-2012, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually, loveseat in the back and nice recliner seating up front.
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post #20 of 50 Old 04-05-2012, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Walls started going up today. My contractor said it would be easier on the shared wall if he put the studs on the other side of the support beam for teh center support which means a bigger air gap. Awesome!

Walls going up!


ID-3's attaching the walls to the ceiling.

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post #21 of 50 Old 04-06-2012, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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My builder just had a question that I didn't have an answer to. Wu staggered walls, what's a good way to do insulation? Just cut the 16" bats in half?
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post #22 of 50 Old 04-06-2012, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
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My builder just had a question that I didn't have an answer to. Wu staggered walls, what's a good way to do insulation? Just cut the 16" bats in half?

Yup. Cut lengthwise and install vertically between the front and back studs. You have to be careful that the insulation doesn't get compressed between the front and back studs because that could possibly recouple the walls.

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post #23 of 50 Old 04-06-2012, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Yup. Cut lengthwise and install vertically between the front and back studs. You have to be careful that the insulation doesn't get compressed between the front and back studs because that could possibly recouple the walls.

Thanks!
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post #24 of 50 Old 04-15-2012, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Update!

The basement is all framed and most of the electrical is finished. My contractor seems to have forgotten to add a few outlets, so I'll have him add those. Putty pads are on the way and should be here on Tuesday, hopefully before drywall time.

The room as it sits today.


Here's what will be the audio/networking rack


High Speed HDMI + Cat 6 to a wall jack. This is so I can use a laptop/ipad/gaming system from inside the room.


Double walls between the rooms


I had a ton of Dynamat left over from a car audio project, so I used it to add lots of mass to the returns which are really just aluminum tacked between floor joists. I can't believe houses were made like this!

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post #25 of 50 Old 04-16-2012, 09:57 AM
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Nice progress so far.. You made me LOL with the air return, my house is the exact same way - they were quite creative in the 1920's..

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post #26 of 50 Old 04-16-2012, 01:55 PM
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Looks good!

It's pretty common practice to use the space between floor joists and walls as returns. My house was built in the 70's and has returns like that.

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post #27 of 50 Old 04-16-2012, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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My boss told me that his very new house is like that too. It seems pretty lazy to me. I sealed up along the edges with some silicone caulking too. There were massive air gaps which explains why my upstairs is extremely hot in the summer, there's almost no damn air return!
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post #28 of 50 Old 04-17-2012, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
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My boss told me that his very new house is like that too. It seems pretty lazy to me. I sealed up along the edges with some silicone caulking too. There were massive air gaps which explains why my upstairs is extremely hot in the summer, there's almost no damn air return!

Actually its not lazy at all. Its just not necessary to have a full duct for just a return. All a return does is equal out the pressure in the room. Everything should go through a filter before it goes back out. If you are worried about your furnace sucking in stuff from returns you shouldn't. The air in your house is more polluted then what is in the ducts

BTW looking forward to this build. I love the old house theaters the best.

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post #29 of 50 Old 04-17-2012, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually its not lazy at all. Its just not necessary to have a full duct for just a return. All a return does is equal out the pressure in the room. Everything should go through a filter before it goes back out. If you are worried about your furnace sucking in stuff from returns you shouldn't. The air in your house is more polluted then what is in the ducts

BTW looking forward to this build. I love the old house theaters the best.

Oh, the dirt isn't my concern. It's that the ONLY return for my entire 2nd floor goes through the side walls of the house. Using a setup like this pretty much guarantees that it won't pull much air since it's shared with two other huge returns on the first floor.

Also, no progress for a few days, my builder has gone MIA. His mother just started chemotherepy last week, so I'm guessing he's dealing with that.
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post #30 of 50 Old 04-17-2012, 09:47 AM
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Oh, the dirt isn't my concern. It's that the ONLY return for my entire 2nd floor goes through the side walls of the house. Using a setup like this pretty much guarantees that it won't pull much air since it's shared with two other huge returns on the first floor.

Also, no progress for a few days, my builder has gone MIA. His mother just started chemotherepy last week, so I'm guessing he's dealing with that.

Sorry I must have missed that about the return. I though you where talking about having the joist space as part of the return. You should consider yourself lucky you have a return. Around here the 100 year old houses have 1 Return. In the basement next to the filter. If you have a 2 story house No ducts to the 2nd floor. The have a vent cover on the ceiling of the 1st level and a vent cover on the floor of the 2nd floor as a pass through for heat to rise. Unless you got money and had a remodel done. As far as your contractor going MIA. Sorry to hear about that but life gets in the way sometimes. Sounds like its a perfect opportunity to slap on the belt and get some brownie points from the wife.

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