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post #181 of 795 Old 12-16-2012, 08:19 AM
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Just a point, that applicator being used is a "stock" gun with no modifications. I assume leather plungers, etc. Not at all optimized for Green Glue. Careful when you soak the gun in water overnight. The leather may swell.

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post #182 of 795 Old 12-16-2012, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Ted. I'll make sure to get it dry. It's bad enough when new, i cant imagine it being any less effective.
On a different note, do you have any links to doors that you've made sound proof? I saw Bigmouth's work on a door that referenced you in the same thread. Basically, looking for ideas to overcome the weak link in that wall... the door.

Jim,
Thanks for the encouragement. Once I get to the next step I'll be in the deep end of the pool. I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to do the finish work. You've set the bar pretty darn high.
Take care all.
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post #183 of 795 Old 12-16-2012, 02:48 PM
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You can't let it dry, or the green glue will seize the gun up. I'm not sure what instructions came with your gun.

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post #184 of 795 Old 12-17-2012, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
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The work on the walls continues. I thought this was a pretty cool photo of the doorway entering the theater for anyone thinking of noise control for their first theater. I'd love to make them even more thick but I have to say enough is enough at some point....wink.gif



Oh, and TMcG...thanks for checking out the theater. I agree with you, without doing a lot of the work yourself.... you just wouldn't appreciate everything as much at the end of the day.
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post #185 of 795 Old 12-20-2012, 10:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Some updates.... Some pics of the family....... The only person missing was my wonderful little boy who was at school;



The wife and our dog Nui ("Big" in Hawaiian) sitting on the supplies that were just moved to the other side of the room


Myself with Nui and my little girl



Some pics of the room with all three layers and Green Glue on all the vertical walls




The ceiling starts to go up. Putting MDF on the ceiling is very time consuming (and heavy)eek.gif A helpful reminder for anyone wanting to use 4'x8' sheets of MDF: they are not 4'x8'!!! Just like "2x4's"... they are slightly off. In this case it's just beyond an inch longer in length (97"x48")

If you look closely, there is a back edge of regular plywood. In that area within a future soffit will hang some very heavy items so we went with a 2' wide strip of plywood there
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post #186 of 795 Old 12-21-2012, 03:39 AM
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I'm just curious as to why you didn't alternate the layers between ceiling and walls so that it formed an alternating joint at the corners for a better seal? Now there will be a single path between the wall and ceiling for sound to enter/exit the room with only maybe a bead of caulk to stop it.
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post #187 of 795 Old 12-21-2012, 08:35 AM
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That's per the Kinetics instructions. There was a diagram posted in post 155.

Ugh, that looks terrible lifting the MDF on the ceiling, bet you 'll be glad when this stage is done. Did you find the screws you were looking for locally?

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post #188 of 795 Old 12-21-2012, 09:53 AM
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the kinetics instructions in post 155 only show a single layer of material and should not be extrapolated to multiple layers. The correct sequence is one layer of MDF on walls and ceiling, caulk, Then a layer of drywall first on the ceiling than a layer on the walls, caulk, Then a layer on the ceiling and a layer on the walls caulk. The result is a staggered stair step seam where the walls and ceiling meet. Much tighter sound control. If you caulk each of the three layers you are putting on the ceiling it will help mitigate the situation.

The Kinetics instructions show how to satisfy fire-code blocking by putting the wall layer up first with a piece of mineral wool sandwiched between the top plate and drywall. The instructions are noticeably deficient in showing how to fire block the other-side of the stud wall at the top and assumes that a normal drywall ceiling and wall is in place blocking any air gaps. If you follow the instructions in a poured concrete basement you will fail a strict fire-code inspection.
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post #189 of 795 Old 12-21-2012, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

the kinetics instructions in post 155 only show a single layer of material and should not be extrapolated to multiple layers. The correct sequence is one layer of MDF on walls and ceiling, caulk, Then a layer of drywall first on the ceiling than a layer on the walls, caulk, Then a layer on the ceiling and a layer on the walls caulk. The result is a staggered stair step seam where the walls and ceiling meet. Much tighter sound control. If you caulk each of the three layers you are putting on the ceiling it will help mitigate the situation.
The Kinetics instructions show how to satisfy fire-code blocking by putting the wall layer up first with a piece of mineral wool sandwiched between the top plate and drywall. The instructions are noticeably deficient in showing how to fire block the other-side of the stud wall at the top and assumes that a normal drywall ceiling and wall is in place blocking any air gaps. If you follow the instructions in a poured concrete basement you will fail a strict fire-code inspection.

From experience, the drawing in post 155 is only one of the engineering drawings that Kinetics provides with their engineered sound isolation systems. The clip layout is on another drawing entirely and is the one that is specifically engineered for the calculated weight loads both in the numbers of clips and the spacing. All of Kinetics systems require the wall layers to be installed in their entirety first. Then all the ceiling layers are installed on either clips, springs, wave hangers or any other one of their isolation systems. They even sell perimeter gasketing systems of a relatively dense material so you don't have to worry about the perimeter caulking that is applied after each ceiling layer be perfect (although recommended).

That being said, I agree there is no substitute for mass and I personally like the alternating layers for soundproofing with the rigid ISOMAX clips used here. However, their ceiling suspension systems and Wave Hangers require that the ceiling be hanging free within the confines of the wall assembly as they isolate with loaded suspension - a shock absorber, if you will.

Sealed perimeter soffits are also a significant sound barrier. I don't know if this theater has that planned or not, but something else to consider.
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post #190 of 795 Old 12-22-2012, 12:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

Hi BllDo... yes, that tip about Fastenal was great. It was very expensive (145 bucks for 1000 screws) but at least the ceiling is safe from falling down. And yes, I will be very glad when this portion is done. After each 4x8 panel I need to take a 5 minute break.eek.gif Here is another pic of the MDF creep across the ceiling:


Thanks for the concern Big...TMcG is correct regarding the plans and when the room is finished it will pass inspection. Lastly, TMcG... you are correct, I will be using a soffit along all the edges of the room which should also help with the sound. It's all good. smile.gif
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post #191 of 795 Old 12-23-2012, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is an update photo of the MDF ceiling. It’s almost finished. A small section behind the screen and the left hand far corner still needs to be completed. My dad has had the unenviable position of helping lift all this MDF to the ceiling. Drilling a million screws into the ceiling and into the Hat Channel has not been fun at all.eek.gif Still, I’m glad it’s turning out so well. Moving on to the drywall and Green Glue soon.

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post #192 of 795 Old 12-31-2012, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Update...
The holidays are slowing me down significantly. The hardest part of the walls and ceilings for me was the MDF. It's heavy and unforgiving. Thankfully the walls are done and the MDF on the ceiling is now complete. I still have 2.67 buckets of Green Glue reserved for the ceiling drywall. Here are some quick pics:

The far left corner is done


The true brains of the operation. Don't tell his momma I let him hold the drill for the photo wink.gif You can also see the space behind the screen that will be necessary for the 80" TV for the wall


Photo of the ceiling again
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post #193 of 795 Old 01-19-2013, 11:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Green Glue (three tubes per 4x8) is going on the final layer of the ceiling.


I put up 12 sheets today. Now that the holidays are over and my kids' b-day parties are about over hopefully I can get back in there and get going.
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post #194 of 795 Old 01-21-2013, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoc View Post


Ouch, what happened on that piece in the back there?

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post #195 of 795 Old 01-21-2013, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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That's what happens when you think 5 screws will hold the thing jussssst loooong enough to screw in portions covered by the lift..er, nope! CRRAAAAASH! At least the drywall lift protected me from the thing. If you look closely, you can see lots of GG wasted. Learning point: all four corners must be screwed in before lowering the lift. wink.gif
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post #196 of 795 Old 01-21-2013, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Another shot of the work completed. The soffit will be upcoming on the list...
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post #197 of 795 Old 01-21-2013, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychdoc View Post

Learning point: all four corners must be screwed in before lowering the lift. wink.gif
That sounds like a lesson that must only be taught once.

Looks good - keep up the good work!
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post #198 of 795 Old 02-05-2013, 06:51 AM
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Hope all is well and your able to make progress soon. biggrin.gif
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post #199 of 795 Old 02-07-2013, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Chrapladm! Work is moving forward bit by bit. As always, I'll add photos as I get something worthy of posting. On a side note, I've been watching movies and setting up speakers in stereo mode. Even though it's not a full speaker system it's played at loud levels when used. The room isn't done but, I must say, I'm pretty happy with the level of noise control. One concerning item that was unintended was the creation of a black hole on that side of the house. Usually when you hear an unusual noise in the house you keep on listening to it and it turns out to be the wind, the dog, or something like that. Now, you hear nothing.....ever eek.gif It's a bit unnerving to hear nothing at all as I move throughout the second floor then I round the corner and suddenly all the noise from the first floor hits you in the face. It was a lot of work but this stuff really works!!!!!!! smile.gif Will it stop all the noise when all 11.4 speakers are rockn'? Nope! But, I'll be able to listen late at night at a reasonable level and not hear the dreaded movie killing, buzz kill phrase "TURN IT DOWN" from the wife. Consider this completed mission a success! wink.gif Now on to making this thing look pretty and sound good!
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post #200 of 795 Old 02-07-2013, 11:37 PM
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That sounds awesome. Congrats on the isolation booth. biggrin.gif
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post #201 of 795 Old 03-04-2013, 12:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been taping and applying lots of joint compound then sanding. Repeat the cycle. I've been doing this mostly to make a really flat surface as almost all of it will be covered by the finished wood layer or acoustic treatments. You can see the sanded seams in next few photos. Question: If I raise the surface of the finished wood using 2x4's mounted on the wall in order to have the wall flush with the acoustic treatments will the hollow air pockets under the finished wood actually create a triple leaf effect?

The next item is the soffit. As usual, this will be my first attempt at something like this. Everything I've done before was a first so if this thing turns out well at the end then ANYONE can do it. The blue lines show the boundaries that I'll mount 2x4s against.


Most of the tools I've been using are borrowed and created. No one in Hawaii has space for a workshop unlike some of the threads I've seen here. I'm creating a nice work bench I can use to cut all the 4x8 finished wood pieces. Low budget but it should work.


Lumber for the soffit. I'm slowly buying the materials and I'll need a bunch of things soon (hopefully).


Here is the wood I was thinking of using although I have two concerns. It is quarter sawn Sapele. It is beautiful! As usual there are potential drawbacks with Sapele that include 1) it might be too busy on a large scale and 2) it is a medium shade which might be too light for a home theater. Here is a pic I took when visiting a local lumber store. Any thoughts from people out there that might have worked with it or been in a similar situation regarding their wood being too busy or bright for a home theater?


Here is a pic of the room filled with a bunch of equipment. One step forward, two steps back.
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post #202 of 795 Old 03-04-2013, 03:38 AM
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I think sapele would look great with the right stain.  Depending on the size of your soffits, you may not want to cover the who thing.  Here is a picture from Sandman's build where he has oak wrapping the corners of the soffit, but then uses fabric wrapped panels for the rest.

 

 

 

What are the dimensions of your soffits?

 

Nick

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post #203 of 795 Old 03-04-2013, 10:13 AM
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You could always stain it a dark color. I ended up using a combination of 4/4 and 8/4 poplar (due to cost, I would have gone with walnut otherwise) with a dark stain and it turned out pretty good. You can still see the grain but its muted somewhat and with a satin finish it doesn't reflect much light.

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post #204 of 795 Old 03-04-2013, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys for the feedback. I had to chuckle when design1 suggested I could stain it darker. I must be getting tired... that makes so much sense and is obvious. They have finished and unfinished versions.... I have no idea why I was thinking of using just their finished versions. Sometimes common sense isn't common (especially late at night). Thanks design1. With that, I'll need to figure out how to stain a large project consistently and evenly although I think I've heard that a pro can come in and spray it on...

The soffit around the front and side walls will be 34" W x 11" H limited largely by the entry door. It will have a lower lip that sticks out another 4" on the bottom that will have a vertical trim piece attached. Behind that trim piece I plan to have LED rope lighting that rings the inner perimeter of the room. Within that central area I currently hope to place a FOSI Starfield that will be 12' wide and about 17' 11" long. The back wall soffit will be slightly larger than the other three walls as it will include the projector, Cineslide with ISCO lens as well as the AC components.

Any other opinions regarding Sapele, especially from anyone familiar with it or the possibility of a triple leaf effect if I pull the finished wall inwards in order to make it flush with the acoustic treatments would be more than welcomed.... Have a great day all.
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post #205 of 795 Old 03-05-2013, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
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The soffit starts to take shape...

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post #206 of 795 Old 03-09-2013, 11:13 PM - Thread Starter
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More supplies coming in. Here is my stack of OC 703

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post #207 of 795 Old 03-12-2013, 10:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Lots of details. Fun for me but hopefully it helps the new guy out there thinking of doing this with no experience at all (like me). wink.gif

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post #208 of 795 Old 03-12-2013, 11:28 PM
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Helps me and my far out in the future build. biggrin.gif
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post #209 of 795 Old 03-13-2013, 12:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks chrapladm.... sometimes I think I'm the only one looking at this stuff with any real interest.... which would actually be ok as it's a lot of fun for me to see the progress. wink.gif I really have never done anything like this ever before. Up until now, the greatest woodworking accomplishment I've ever had was making a wooden sign with my name on it in 8th grade wood shop. Everything I'm doing I need to read about and ask lots of questions... mostly to my retired dad who really can do this stuff at a pro level- makes me think this sort of natural skill must skip a generation. rolleyes.gif We'll see what it looks like when it's all done, it's way too early to think it will turn out well but I'm hopeful. The slow pace is killing me though.....
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post #210 of 795 Old 03-13-2013, 04:19 AM
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I will be in the same boat when the time occurs. My dad id also a former custom kitchen cabinet builder for years and knows what he is doing. I on the other hand am learning as I go. These threads always help me so I am glad your sharing yours. PLUS I have no idea how I am going to squeeze a HT room in a house when I move back to Hawaii after seeing whats affordable over there. Seeing yours at least keeps me dreaming.
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