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post #1 of 22 Old 05-15-2012, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I posted a few days ago in the Speakers sub-forum, but I completely revamped the room shape so figured I'd just start fresh and use the proper forum.

Attached is my design. This is going into one half of a finished basement, which begins construction in a couple weeks. Here's what I've settled on so far

- Epson 8350 (price, placement flexibility, quality)
- 96" image (arrived at this based on 2-row requirement and available space)
- I was initially against in-wall speakers, but now that I have a proper room design that can actually look like a real theater, I'm interested in in-wall options as well.
- Budget: $5,000 for projector, speakers, receiver

Truth be told, I know squat about home theater equipment. I don't know how to choose my speakers or receiver. I've found a few receivers that seem like they might fit the bill, but buying one would be a gamble at this point:

Onkyo NR709
I like this, but the unit seems to be prone to problems.

Onkyo NR609
The 709's little brother, seems less problematic.

Denon AVR 2311CI
Safe bet? Adequate for the room size?

Yamaha RX-V671
Nice price

So by all means, hit me with speaker/receiver suggestions - I would be incredibly grateful.

Thanks in advance,
C#
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post #2 of 22 Old 05-15-2012, 07:13 PM
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You need to re-think your screen size. I wouldn't bother with a front projection set up with an 84 inch wide image at 13 and 19 ft viewing distances. Think 100-105 wide minimum.
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post #3 of 22 Old 05-15-2012, 11:43 PM
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+1 - and/or install a false wall 2' from the front wall, and put your speakers behind an AT screen - you can use bookshelves instead of in walls for the LCRs, and stay with in-walls for the surrounds if you want. And it brings you seating closer at around 11', so you can use a smaller screen and have the same level of immersion (I'd still second Big's thought that even at 11' the screen should be bigger). Your available space also opens up with an AT screen, because you don't need to sacrifice screen width to make room for the L/R speakers and subs.
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post #4 of 22 Old 05-16-2012, 04:05 AM
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+1 to what Brad said. And I'd add, flip the room and get the beam out of seating headroom.
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post #5 of 22 Old 05-16-2012, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for your feedback guys!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

You need to re-think your screen size. I wouldn't bother with a front projection set up with an 84 inch wide image at 13 and 19 ft viewing distances. Think 100-105 wide minimum.

Something that I failed to mention or illustrate previously was soffit work on the screen side of the room (attached), which constitutes a 10" drop. So in order to maintain a 3ft clearance between the bottom of the screen and the floor, I went with a 96" diagonal instead of 100". That said, I'm not at all opposed to moving the seating closer - it will benefit both rows and help clear the second row from the beam.

So at this point, floor clearance is what's really constraining the screen size. Even at it's current size, we're 34" from the floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted View Post

flip the room and get the beam out of seating headroom.

This was actually one of our original designs, but after measuring that beam it's actually 13.5" not 12", and our ceiling height (aside from soffit work) is just shy of 7'-3/4".

So what this means is that the image is being projected very low to the floor, which is complicated even further by the soffit work at the opposite side, forcing the projector forward.

I'll post actual pictures of the space in a moment.
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post #6 of 22 Old 05-16-2012, 06:01 AM
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So that whole shaded area is the 10" soffit? I assume it has duct work and the like that can't be moved... have you considered squaring it up with the room?? And carrying it around the sides and the back to make it look intentional..

my sad attempt to show what I mean..
Attachment 246759
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post #7 of 22 Old 05-16-2012, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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It's actually the furnace exhaust, so adding any additional bends to it could cause gas build-up. I do like the idea of squaring it up, though. Still, my major concern with this layout so far is the image-floor clearance.

Here's a picture of the exhaust, which coincidentally shows another area I'm considering for the theater. The space between the two gray poles would could make for a nice space and contains minimal duct work on the side nearest the camera. I would use that for an aisle rather than seating and the picture would not extent to that area. That leaves a 64" aisle and 115" for seating. I figure I could comfortably seat 8 people (our minimum is 6).
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post #8 of 22 Old 05-16-2012, 06:43 AM
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Is the door in the upper right hand corner? Nine seats a want or a need?
Up to narrowing the room?

An acoustically transparent screen could shrink the perceived depth of the soffit and hide the sub/s and front speakers. A bigger screen would push the projector throw behind the rear row.

The soffits could be shallow to conserve headroom.
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post #9 of 22 Old 05-16-2012, 06:54 AM
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maybe something unique? Like a two step eliptical bite out of the soffit??


I am guessing there's openable windows above, that code prevented running the exhaust parallel with the beam?
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post #10 of 22 Old 05-16-2012, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

maybe something unique? Like a two step eliptical bite out of the soffit??


I am guessing there's openable windows above, that code prevented running the exhaust parallel with the beam?

That's correct - now I know why they did it!

You're also correct about the doorway.

The way I figure it, a 100" image will be about 32" off the floor (91.6" ceiling - 9" finished soffit [guestimation] - 49" image height).

Not too bad, I guess. Would love to hit that 36" for the back row viewers. The blue soap bottle on the floor marks the edge of the theater's projection wall, which will extend to the right-hand wall.

One option is to keep a 96" image and move the seats forward one or two feet. This will help with head clearance under that obnoxious beam as well as gain 2" in image-floor clearance.

I've attached a shot facing through the screen area toward the back of the theater.
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post #11 of 22 Old 05-16-2012, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Here we go: 96" diagonal, seats moved up. The rear surrounds would just be mounded to the beam.
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post #12 of 22 Old 05-16-2012, 09:25 AM
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I don't beleive you want seating to be dead center of the room...

An 96" diagonal screen is so 720P 7"-8" crt days..... Now we have brighter projectors, better scalers, and high definition native content.
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post #13 of 22 Old 05-16-2012, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

I don't beleive you want seating to be dead center of the room...

An 96" diagonal screen is so 720P 7"-8" crt days..... Now we have brighter projectors, better scalers, and high definition native content.

From the last pic I posted, the back row can certainly be pushed back to try for a larger screen, but the available projection height is a limiting factor. At 96", the bottom of the image is 34" from the floor. It's also my understanding that you want a distance ratio of 1.2 - 1.5 the diagonal (please correct me if I'm wrong - I'm learning as I go!)
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post #14 of 22 Old 05-16-2012, 01:32 PM
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Somewhere between 1:1 and 1.2:1 is pretty common these days. One foot of viewing distance to one foot to 1 foot of screen width.

You should be setting the room up starting with seating, and designing around the audio, then screen size will start to fall into place. The seating will place your eyes and eyes, and let you set the bottom of the screen (so that the second row can see it). The front row elevated neck angle should not exceed a seven degree elevation for horizontal. You could stagger the seating rows to help keep the riser height manageable, and/or do an island style riser under the seating/foot room, on top of a low riser. You also don't have reclining seating so you can fit the seats closer together.

Have you seen the "small theater build" thread? Lots of ideas and inspiration in there...

The bottom of your screen at 34" off the floor, is too high.
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post #15 of 22 Old 05-16-2012, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

Somewhere between 1:1 and 1.2:1 is pretty common these days. One foot of viewing distance to one foot to 1 foot of screen width.

You should be setting the room up starting with seating, and designing around the audio, then screen size will start to fall into place. The seating will place your eyes and eyes, and let you set the bottom of the screen (so that the second row can see it). The front row elevated neck angle should not exceed a seven degree elevation for horizontal. You could stagger the seating rows to help keep the riser height manageable, and/or do an island style riser under the seating/foot room, on top of a low riser. You also don't have reclining seating so you can fit the seats closer together.

Have you seen the "small theater build" thread? Lots of ideas and inspiration in there...

The bottom of your screen at 34" off the floor, is too high.

Tedd, you have provided me with a wealth of information - thank you. Given that 34" is too high, I can go wider with my screen (it was the main limiting factor - there are a couple others but they're manageable). I don't know how I got 36" for floor clearance stuck in my head. A 110" screen would give me about 28.5" - is that appropriate? I would then place the front row @ 11'.

Thank you for being so helpful! I'll see if I can find the thread you mentioned.
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post #16 of 22 Old 05-16-2012, 07:39 PM
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Here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=996973

Draw yourself a scale diagram of the room from the side to establish workable sightlines with riser heights. And watch the projector's throw for the screen size so it doesn't end up right above the second row.

A 110" screen should be do-able. The riser height will be the issue, so do yourself some side view drawings with sightlines, or even mock up the room. With 7' 1" of ceiling height, offset seating, and a low full width riser with an island style riser atop it, will get you some workable numbers. Speaking from personal experience, there will be a lot of unworkable numbers with a 7' 1" ceiling height.

SOWK's room might scale down slightly. Post 21 has a couple of six footers on the stage. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1325369
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post #17 of 22 Old 05-18-2012, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the links, Tedd - spent the last couple days peering through them all. I'm starting to wonder if this room is an endeavor in futility. See attachment. Distance to first row is 11', distance to second row is 15', distance to PROJ 1 is 14' (farther projector should say PROJ 2), distance to beam is 16'.

I have to resign myself to the fact that people will block the picture when they stand up - nothing I can do about that. The question is, will tall-ish people be blocking it when they're sitting down. I have no idea if my 48" head-height while seated is accurate.

Also, you'll notice that the beam measurements are changed - this is a finished measurement.

The position of the closer projector would give much greater head-clearance, but would make a 4-seat row in the back almost impossible. The second projector is out of the way, but the image clearance becomes a serious concern even when seated.
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post #18 of 22 Old 05-18-2012, 11:16 AM
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Am I reading wrong that you are planning 2 rows of recliners, separated by 4' ??

That simply isn't going to work. You need more like 7' in order to allow recline. At 4' the footrest will hit the headrest of the first row.
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post #19 of 22 Old 05-18-2012, 01:22 PM
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The guys who installed your furnace exhaust and fresh air supply were lazy SOBs it could easily have been tucked next to the beam, You only need for the pipes to maintain an upward slope irregardless of the bends. Otherwise condensation can collect in the line.

You might also think about taking it out of the house on another side altogether, stick it out the front behind a bush.

The tops of heads in the first row in theater recliners will be more like 42, check out the riser height planner in the sticky threads
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post #20 of 22 Old 05-18-2012, 06:39 PM
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Before you get too frustrated, check out Strange_brew's theater. 7'5" high with a 54x127" 2.35:1 screen and 9.5" high riser.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=735097



I wouldn't sweat people blocking the projector when standing up. That's practically a given with a low ceiling if you don't use a short throw projector that places the pj above the first row seating.

I've attached Craig's sightline drawing from the thread.
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post #21 of 22 Old 05-20-2012, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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@BIG - yes, it was definitely lazy. I understand why it exits the structure where it does, but they could have been much more elegant about it rather than just cutting a third out of the ceiling.

@Tedd - Strange's build is rather inspiring. If someone is willing and capable of moving a structure support, anything can be done.

I'm looking into options for rerouting the HVAC piping so the soffit goes away and I can raise the picture against the wall behind it. We're also going to take your suggestion and go with a 6" riser (which will keep me precisely at code with a 7'-0" clearance after it's finished; this accounts for 1/2" loss with carpeting/padding) and island risers for the seats.
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post #22 of 22 Old 05-20-2012, 10:33 AM
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reread and saw my post was already answered sorry. You've got a lot of good help here!
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