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post #61 of 597 Old 06-21-2012, 06:35 PM
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my first thought was why not make it perfectly square?


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post #62 of 597 Old 06-21-2012, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I forgot to add that this will be behind the screen wall and it wont be seen, so I wasnt worried about looks, just soundproofing. I should have added that, Im sure most were wondering the same thing. There will also be one of my 2 dead vents in that corner. So I wanted to frame it as thin as I could.

- Dave


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post #63 of 597 Old 06-24-2012, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Well this weekend sucked. I had planned to get a lot done. NOPE. I spent almost all day Friday cleaning up, which was way overdue. I have to say that I became a bit more motivated with a clean area to work from. Yesterday I spent half the day at the sawmill looking for the Amish guy who hooks me up with hardwood, At least I did pick up some really good walnut, but its still green. Now to a question......

I am trying to figure out how to make my transition from the hvac trunk line into the theater. The plan was to run it down the joist and drop it down 12 inches at 90 deg and through the wall into a soffit. Not exactly sure how I am going to go about it. I dont want to much resistance from having turns and a long run, and end up getting too little airflow. Here are some pics

The duct will run the length of the joist and then turn 90 at some point
450

Here is another picture with the equip closet on the right. One plan was to run down the joist until it got to the closet and then turn 90. The only issue with that is, i will have an inline fan in there already to vent the hush box.
450

- Dave


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post #64 of 597 Old 06-27-2012, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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If anyones interested................

Just got off the phone with the Nailor Rep. I am trying to figure out which diffuser to use for my supplies. After pouring over an Air flow calculator and referencing a post by DE, its determined that I need a diffuser size that gives me an FPM(ft per minute) of 200 - 250. I found that a diffuser that is rated for 384 CFM(cubic ft per minute) will turn out a FPM of 240. The size is 48" x 4". Anyone that has experience with this, please chime in if I am off.

Bottom line, I need a 48" x 4" diffuser. Had the hardest time finding one for sale online, so I called a distributor and he's sending me a quote shortly. Will post when I get that email.

FWIW I was told this diffuser has an NC of 17.


NOW.....I am going to need a transition from my duct to the diffuser. I doubt Lowes has a 6" round to 48"x4" transition, so my first thought was i need to get one fabricated.

If anyone has done this before, please drop a post on how. I may have to go with insulated rectangular duct. Not sure yet.

- Dave


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post #65 of 597 Old 06-27-2012, 08:02 AM
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Just build your own MDF/plywood box in the ceiling/soffit. Line with Linacoustic, cut the required hole for the duct and diffuser. I've even just turned a section of a soffit into a box by blocking both ends and cutting the slot on the bottom for the Nailor diffuser. Caulk the seams to make it air tight.

DSCF5246.jpg


Here is a shot of the soffit as plenum. It is lined with Linacoustic, MDF went on the bottom and a slot for the Nailor diffuser was cut.

IMG_6323.jpg


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post #66 of 597 Old 06-27-2012, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow....thats a damn good idea BIG. Thanks.

- Dave


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post #67 of 597 Old 06-27-2012, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have a good site that sells insulated rigid duct, or duct board?

- Dave


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post #68 of 597 Old 06-27-2012, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fax6202 View Post

Does anyone have a good site that sells insulated rigid duct, or duct board?

Do you mean duct liner like Linacoustic that Big showed in his photos? I'm not sure where you are located but you will probably be able to source it locally for less than you will find it online. See if there is a General Insulation in your area. They have great pricing on Knauf Sonic XP duct liner that is equivalent to the JM Linacoustic and doesn't contain formaldehyde. You should also try sourcing Johns Manville Linacoustic or Duct Liner PM. If you can't find any of those locally, Fabricmate.com sells Linacoustic.

Spaceman Theater Build


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post #69 of 597 Old 06-27-2012, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks spaceman.

I was talking about duct board, usually comes in sheets like 4'x10'. I was looking for a solution for in between the joists, I currently have flex but am looking for a solution with less resistance than flex.

- Dave


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post #70 of 597 Old 06-29-2012, 08:16 AM
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I noticed you had posted this pic over on Mario's thread as an inspiration for your room. Do you happen to have the source of this? Is it another AVS build?

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Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
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post #71 of 597 Old 06-29-2012, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Not exactly, It is a 3D render, not an actual room. I purchased this render and am working with the artist and he is in the process of making a few tweaks, which is pretty much this room, except where the door is. This is the only photo that I have right now, but when he finishes my render I will be sure to post if you like or send to you.

- Dave


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post #72 of 597 Old 06-29-2012, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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2 things I figure out tonight on my maiden voyage with GG. 1. That sh** is sticky. And 2. DD/ GG treatment in between the joists is no fun at all.....

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- Dave


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post #73 of 597 Old 06-29-2012, 07:48 PM
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yep it was the first thing i did after framing and it was at that i point i said i can't wait to this part is over with...... i will say this once find a good rhythm it goes by a little faster.... you will also discover that not all the joist are 16inch on center and you will soon be cussing the builder of your home.......

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2 things I figure out tonight on my maiden voyage with GG. 1. That sh** is sticky. And 2. DD/ GG treatment in between the joists is no fun at all.....
700
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post #74 of 597 Old 07-01-2012, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Snickers-You couldn't have been more right. I would have loved to have a few words with the builders after about 20 hours in the HT this weekend.


I did get a ton done, although it doesn't look like much. I got about 90% of the joists filled with DD/GG. I just have to caulk the second layer with Acoustic Seal. I also finished up on the rough electrical, capping and crimping everything off before drywall. Very productive 2 days.

Looks like drywall will be in the next two weeks. A question for those who have gone before me. I contacted a drywall finisher and was quoted at 10 - 16.00 a board to finish. That is a great price. Of course the range will depend on how well the sheet rock is hung. The more mud and tape, the more per board. When I was chatting with him, he said that they would hang it to for just a few hundred dollars. This is too good to turn down unless someone talks me out of it. I was really going to do everything, but this may be worth the investment. Now this is just for the rest of the basement. I am doing the drywall in the HT because I don't trust the contractor with insuring everything is right with the channel and DD/GG. I don't know if they would apply the right amount of GG either.

Thoughts?????

- Dave


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post #75 of 597 Old 07-02-2012, 05:10 AM
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What I don't like about your guy's pricing is that he is making the price dependent on how much mud and tape he has to use to get it to look right. Any finisher worth his fee would do three coats - the first with Super 90 (or 45) to imbed the tape and fill the seams; the second to smooth out and depressions/shrinkage left from the first coat and the third coat should be a very, very light skim of joint compound to blend all the edges perfectly. There shouldn't be anything beyond this to cause you to be at the upper end of his quoted price range.

The quote I locked onto was $0.23 per square board foot, regardless of waste. Which included all the materials, hanging, corner bead, three coats of mud, finish sanding, cleanup and debris removal. I even specified that they use screws to secure the drywall. Some pros will use a handful of nails just to initially secure the board and then finish securing with screws, fyi. It ended up that I had 96 sheets of 54" wide by 12' long. Considering it would have taken me months to get a much inferior result, I jumped at the chance to hire out and it was done in five days. Two weeks later (after cure) I primed and painted - it turned out great!

One question I noticed in your pictures....are you not decoupling the walls from your ceiling joists? It looks like your theater walls are built tight up to the joists. Many folks use the soundproofing clips to decouple the entire side walls from the ceiling and then just apply Double 5/8" drywall and Green Glue directly to these decoupled walls. A few even take it to the extreme and use resilient channels with decoupling clips on the wall assembly for even greater STC rating.


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post #76 of 597 Old 07-02-2012, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
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TMcG-

In my rush to get everything done asap I didnt plan properly and did not use clips. However I am using clips/channel/DD/GG to decouple the ceiling and the walls. Although I may double stud the walls if I can spare the space. Performance wise its pretty close but Ted and I chatted last week and the double studded walls do hold a slight advantage over clips/channel/DD/GG. But to answer your question, yes I will be decoupling all walls and the ceiling. The DD/GG joist treatment I finished this weekend is just the extra mile. I have not seen a whole lot of folks on here do it, but some have and I wanted to take that extra step to insure soundproofing.

Thanks for your input on the drywall work. I may have misrepresented what the contractor was telling me. What he was saying is that since they are finishers and someone else actually hangs the drywall the variance in price is based upon how much time they have to spend on mudding and taping. If it was a crappy job and they have to spend some of their time fixiing mistakes then the price per board will go up. Regardless I think that I am going to have them hang it to since the price difference is minimal. I am going to do all the drywall in the HT. I do a pretty good job with drywall it just takes me a whole lot longer. But I want full control of the HT and how the work is being accomplished.

Thank you for your input!

- Dave


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post #77 of 597 Old 07-02-2012, 05:37 AM
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No problem! I wish I had as productive as a weekend myself...but I didn't because my morally bankrupt friends continue to kidnap me onto their boats over every weekend.

Anyhow, don't forget to order the "putty pads" to soundproof all wall and ceiling penetrations (including receptacles) and also the acoustic caulk that goes on all drywall seams and edges before taping / mudding!


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post #78 of 597 Old 07-02-2012, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Absolutely. I have been caulking non-stop the drywall seams between the joists. there will be no penetrations in the walls as all low voltage, electrical, and HVAC will be run in soffits and columns.

You cant complain to much about spending time on the water. I am surrounded by two rivers and a bay, so I can't complain either.

- Dave


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post #79 of 597 Old 07-02-2012, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Next on the list, backer boxes for in-wall speakers. The idea that I have floating around is to make the boxes as big as I can so that I will leave myself open to upgrade/change speakers in the future. I was wondering if any have done this specifically and want to weigh in. I have to keep the box decoupled from the framing but I also want to have some type of cross bracing or blocking within the box to house the speakers I am getting, which are the Klipsch R-5502-WII. I am really trying to think on this one as it is not something i can easily go back and change after the fact

- Dave


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post #80 of 597 Old 07-02-2012, 12:51 PM
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Copy the dimensions of this in MDF, glued and screwed: http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-ME650W-In-Wall-Speaker-Enclosure/dp/B003JTS9S4/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1341258136&sr=1-3&keywords=klipsch+fire+rated+metal+enclosure

The baffle is optimally sized for their in-wall speakers and they also make them for the round in-ceiling speakers.

As for designing a speaker that can hold many different types of speakers, I would offer this. Route out the front panel about one inch from the edge of the side walls. Take a straight router bit around this opening to remove 1/2" of the material thickness around the perimeter. This is now the permanent template size for the Klipsch and any other future speakers that will fit in this back box. Create a jig out of plywood that you can use to create the same size MDF as the enclosure's opening and use the straight router on the BACK side of this panel to create a lip for the other material thickness. The two pieces should nest perfectly into one another and secured with screws around the perimeter overlap points. You would naturally have your new speaker opening cut out of this new MDF center panel prior to installation. This way you may make unlimited panels of various shapes and sizes cutouts but attach them to the same MDF lip on the backbox enclosure. Let me know if this quick pictureless description makes sense or not.


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post #81 of 597 Old 07-02-2012, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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TMcG-

That makes perfect sense, and thank you. It's actually a brilliant idea and it will definitely be straight forward to make. And this would leave many option for future in-walls. Thanks again, for a great solution.

I was talking to Ted about these and he suggested that I make them as substantial as I can. I was thinking of maybe 3 layers of MDF/OSB/MDF, with GG. Fortunately I built my walls 2" away from the concrete wall so that gives me a little wiggle room for depth.

- Dave


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post #82 of 597 Old 07-02-2012, 03:56 PM
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Not to disagree with Ted...but I have to disagree as to how rigid these boxes need to be made. Not even Revel, B&W Nautilus or most high-end speakers use MDF of HDF that thick for their top-end speakers. These Klipsch are simple in-walls and although you will be putting them in a column, don't forget you have already soundproofed your room and suppressing the backwave of these smaller in-walls is relatively easily accomplished.

If you want to go with layers that includes some sort of green glue, then do this: Use two 1/2" MDF with green glue in-between these layers. Glue and screw (with carpenters glue) all the edges of each layer together, of course. This construction would even make your task of leaving a 1/2" "lip" on the front of the enclosure easier simply by cutting the front panel opening 1/2" larger in all dimensions. You then could just use a squared-off piece of 1/2" MDF as your front panel piece that would hold the speaker. Definitely easier to build in retrospect and achieves your goal of a green glue-based enclosure.


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post #83 of 597 Old 07-02-2012, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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TMcG-

Im sorry, I should have been more clear. These actually will be in-wall, not in a column. That is the reason for the overkill on the backer box. My columns will be all Walnut and trim, no speakers. Speakers will be in the wall between the columns behind GOM 701. So I really want to make the boxes as robust as I can. I may also just bite the bullet and make the two side walls a double stud wall and then just use clips/channel on the front, back, and ceiling.

- Dave


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post #84 of 597 Old 07-03-2012, 12:58 AM
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Thanks for the clarification. Well, you will certainly won't be hurting yourself by going with Ted's plan of 3 layers in a dissimilar material sandwich with Green Glue, so go with it. I still say the back pressure for those in-walls is not that extreme, but I guess you could look at it as an insurance policy. Good luck building these things- doesn't seem luck a fun part of the project.


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post #85 of 597 Old 07-03-2012, 04:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I would have to agree, no fun at all. Although it has to be a step up from the last 25 hours spend DD/GG between the ceiling joists and climbing up and down the ladder quite often. And to top it all off go back and seal all those seams. At least with these boxes I'll be able to stay on the ground and not have to look straight up.

I did some preliminary measurements yesterday and I have 5.5" from the wall to the front of the stud. Clips+Channel+DD = 1 5/8". So that gives me a depth of 7 1/8". I may also have some wiggle room in front due to the fact that i will be treating at least 2" of the wall. I have to talk to Bpape first.

Any suggestions on the layers of the sandwich; materials on hand are OSB, Drywall, MDF, and cement board. I dont see any reason to use the cement board as these will not be boxes for lights, just speakers.

TMcG - I am definitely going with your design. Im just not set on materials. At 3 layers of 3/4", a total of 2 1/4" that would leave me 4 7/8" to work with. Probably a bit more considering treatments.

- Dave


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post #86 of 597 Old 07-03-2012, 05:52 AM
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My preference would easily be MDF, specifically 1/2" MDF if you intend to use three layers. You just can't beat the density/mass of the stuff.

You are probably correct that Bpape will add 1"-2" of some sort of acoustic treatment to the front side of your wall, so I think between this extra depth and slimming down to a 1/2" substrate you should be fine in achieving your target depth with room to spare.

If I was in your place I would probably build ONLY the back box portion through the wall while leaving the three layers of front facing flange to sit on top of the drywall, permanently glued and screwed into position (except for the top interchangeable layer, of course. This will give you a 1.5" buildup on top of the drywall. And given that the speaker will protrude by 1/8" or less, a 2 inch acoustic treatment with the appropriate stretch fabric system will allow you to have the full speaker assembly covered by the fabric with the perfect 3/8" gap from the fabric. If you built out a full two inches then added the speaker you would easily spot it once the fabric was stretched over - something to keep in mind.

Let me know your thoughts and if this explanation makes sense.


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post #87 of 597 Old 07-03-2012, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Makes perfect sense. The last thing I want to do is go to all this trouble and measure everything as precise as I can and then have it sticking out beneath the fabric. I will talk to Bryan and see if I can get a more concrete decision on side wall treatments.

The 3/8" gap you are refering to, is that the distance you want to attain from the front of the speaker to the GOM fabric?

And I think 1/2" MDF at three layers would be pretty solid. Also, on your design, the removable custom template would only be screwed, right? That way you can interchange, because if adhesive was used then you would have to destroy the box to get it off.

This probably won't be the most fun in th world, but I am looking forward to implementing a solid plan, and this stage is important. I dont want any acoustical issues popping up down the road or any issues with soundproofing.

Thanks again.

- Dave


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post #88 of 597 Old 07-03-2012, 06:51 AM
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Yes the approximate 3/8" gap would be from the front of the speaker to the back side of the GOM fabric. There is no need or advantage to having it more forward than that. The nice thing is that if you go with 2" acoustic foam you don't even have to think about gaps because your material thicknesses add up perfectly.

And yes, only the two initial facing layers would get glued and screwed. The last layer that would hold your speaker gets screwed only. Make sure to predrill and use a countersink bit for a perfect fit for your screws! I am probably telling you things you already know, but just to be safe...right?

I did have one other thought in the construction of these boxes - I am so used to saying "glued and screwed". While you definitely need to use a construction adhesive (I like PL Premium PL300), it would be faster and easier to simply secure the box together with an 18 gauge finish nailer to hold everything together until the glue dries. Because once that glue is dry the finish nails or and screws are meaningless as the glue totally holds the bond 100%.


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post #89 of 597 Old 07-03-2012, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Sounds good, thank you for the input. I will post pictures and descriptions as I build them so that you can see your plan in action.

I will have to build 4 of these for the surrounds and one big one for a second (in the future) sub.

Any suggestions on the sub, my only fear here is to have an enclosure that does not resonate. A stage will have thousands of pounds of sand, not much I can do for the backer box.

- Dave


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post #90 of 597 Old 07-03-2012, 07:07 AM
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What sub are you using?


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