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post #31 of 54 Old 12-25-2012, 10:31 PM
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I just picked up on your thread and I have to say your work is both tasteful and impressive. I'm in the procrastination phase as I try to figure out my next move. I have a few questions about sound isolation and was hoping that you and/or a few other experienced members might be able to help. I don't have an unlimited budget so although I realize that I have only one shot at doing this right, I don't want to spend money on things that are unlikely to add to the quality of soundproofing I can achieve. I'll try to create and post a new layout sketch ASAP. I expect it may help to see the area I'm working with. For now, let me explain where I am and how I got here.

I'm finishing a portion of my basement that will include a home theater. Before I learned anything about sound isolation or how far I wanted to take it, I rough framed the walls, installed and wired recessed lighting. I also installed and wired my electrical boxes and circuits. This was all done before I realized I needed more than insulation to keep the sound from disturbing anyone (including the two dogs) who may be in the room above. My original intent for the ceiling was to insulate then just screw in 1x3 wood slats perpendicular to the floor joists with 3/4" spacing between each. Everything was to be painted black (including everything under the slats) for camouflage. Once I framed the walls and finished the electrical, I had to take an unexpected break after my Father In-Law passed away suddenly. He left us a house that needed a total makeover before we could sell it so I spent all last summer renovating the house every spare moment I had. After a short breather, I needed to have knee surgery. While I rehabbed, I decided I wanted to do this right the first time so I read up and learned that I'd need to decouple the already framed walls from the floor joists. I also learned that I should build a double wall to essentially decouple an existing wall enclosing my staircase into the basement. I also realized my idea to use an insulated and slatted ceiling was out the window and that I'd likely need 2 layers of 5/8" drywall sandwiched with "green goo" to keep low frequency transmission from being a problem. If my working knowledge is flawed, please correct me because based on what I've read (learned?), this is what I believe to be true so far.

Here are my questions;
I know I to have to decouple the top plate of my existing framed walls from the floor joists. Can I simply notch out enough room to wedge 1/2" rubber chunks or "U" channels at each contact point? Do the bottom plates of my existing walls need to be decoupled as well? I hope not because this will be all but impossible with the wiring already complete. I'm counting on that not being a problem since the framing sits on a 4" concrete slab with at least another 12" of stone below that. Additionally, my foundation walls are 8"-10" of poured concrete. Once the framed walls are effectively decoupled from the joists above, will it still be necessary to use decoupling clips for drywall on the walls? Will I need outlet backer pads? I don't expect any low frequency that escapes via the outlet boxes will travel up 10" thick concrete walls and to the floor above but again, if my logic is flawed, please advise.

Lastly, will I need to build enclosure boxes for my recessed light cans? I've seen this recommended but if the ceiling and walls are already decoupled, how much is this going to affect the final isolation capabilities? If this remains a critical link could I used Mass Loaded Vinyl over insulation instead of boxes? On that note, could I attach a layer of MLV (what weight?) directly to the floor joists then use 1 sheet of drywall to achieve comparable results to 2 green goo sandwiched sheets of 5/8" drywall? Am I correct in assuming that whether I use MLV and one layer or 2 layers of green goo sandwiched drywall I will still need decoupling clips or a similar product for the ceiling? Lastly, what products are recommended and where is the least expensive online source to purchase the recommended decoupling clips, rubber channels, green goo, MLV, etc?

I really need to get this project moving ASAP so any advice I can get from those who have conquered this ground before me, would be greatly appreciated to say the least.
Thanks in advance.
Mick
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post #32 of 54 Old 01-07-2013, 11:14 PM
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Great theater man! It's nice to see a fellow Kansan on the forum. My sis lives in Wichita and my wife and I visit there bout once a month and we always go to the 21st Warren and usually see something at the IMAX there. Our theaters are close in size; mine is 21.5x13.2.

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post #33 of 54 Old 01-22-2013, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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"back in the saddle again...."

Yep that's right it's winter, it's cold and I am tired of staring at the materials yet to be included in the theater.... so I have started working on my theater again. That doesn't mean we have stopped watchig movies...lol!

Recently I hung, stained and cased out the doors on the entrance, AV room and AV room closet. No biggie except for the frames I had to build to wrap around two doors to allow for the fabric to be applied. Seems kinda stupid since you can only see 2-3" of the material after the door casing was appliied...but it needed done.

Pictures to come.

And no I am not "Loganed". everyone should spend 9 years on their theater project!
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post #34 of 54 Old 04-12-2013, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I finally took the time to take additional progress photos. I scrapped the idea of the flip up bar, behind the riser wall. After mocking it up there just wasn't enough room for bar, people and seats..back there. frown.gif Oh well, the down side to a smaller theater. I also got the only poster to be placed inside the theater, hung. This REVENGE of the Jedi poster was bought about 10 years ago and has been in storage all that time, waiting for it's place!




Here is a straight on view showing the back of the riser wall and the height of the seats that are going to be going in.

I was, initially, going to order 2 rows of 3 leather recliners from Roman but even with his nice discount...they weren't in the budget. We are using $20 folding chairs from Wal-Mart so ANYTHING would be better. I started looking around and finally found a guy on eBay that, after talking to him on the phone, found out that he retros theaters and buys up massive amount of real theater seats to be re-sold or used in a different theater. Through his suggestion, I waited a month until he acquired 3500 of these high back rocker theater seats and placed my order for 2 rows of 4. Now my theater will seat 8, when they are installed. These seats were a fantastic bargain and are very nice. The maroon color isn't a perfect match to my tapestry fabric (at 100% lights) but on the other scenes they blend in just fine. These came in well under $100 per seat, shipped to me!! smile.gif

I am planning on canting them back a little with a wedge, under the front legs to "recline" them back just a tad. I have also been thinking about building a long ottoman to be set in front of the rows, so we can put our feet up.



The carpet is bought too, but I think the idea to cover the toe kick areas of the riser and stage...with carpet... isn't going to work, because of the step lights. So I am going to cut up some 1/8" oak plywood and wrap the facing areas of those. I am also thinking that to secure the seats down to the floor, I might want to place them on a piece of plywood (or two) and them secure that board to the riser and concrete. Thought I might just paint those boards black and carpet up to them. I am just a little concerned with running a bunch of bolts though the carpet and padding to fasten the seat legs down. Don't know yet.....



Here is a shot into the AV room showing the bookshelf I made. It is about 32" wide and a full 8' tall. Strange thing it that I measured the space I would need to hold all my movies and thought that would leave me with 3 empty shelves. hmmmmm I miscalculated and don't have as much empty space as I was hoping! But I am going to trade out some of our favorite DVDs over to BluRay and that will gain a little space.
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post #35 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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After watching Argo last night I took out the temp screws on the two theater seats and slipped a 3/4" board under the front of the legs. Screwed that board down and then the screwed the seat legs down again. This is all a test for canting the seats back a tad for a more reclined position without "pushing" the seat back. The good news is that this little bit of lift in the front worked perfect for a super comfortable resting position!!! So I will be ripping a 2" wide board, slightly beveling it and attaching it to the floor in prep for carpet/pad and then the seats.

I also have been brainstorming the construction of my bracket for my anamorphic lens sled. I refuse to pay Panamorph what they want for the factory bracket, so I bought a sheet of 1/4 aluminum and will be taking the projector down to measure and cut out the bracket. I do have a bracket that has the holes already in it (made for an Optoma projector), so there is a slight advantage for the alignment aspect!
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post #36 of 54 Old 04-17-2013, 03:08 AM
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SWEET Revenge of the Jedi poster!!!
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post #37 of 54 Old 04-17-2013, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Started cutting the aluminum for the anamorphic lens bracket. The aluminum is just shy of 1/4" and my jigsaw DOESN'T like it! It sure is slow going cutting this dude out.

I have it completely cut out now, holes drilled to mount it underneath my projector mount and flat black dying on it right now. Looking through my lens and sled boxes and darn it if they didn't short me 2 of the 4 small screws to attach the sled to the bracket. Guess I will be heading to the hardware store tomorrow.

I am super ready to get the projector back up on the mount, with the lens installed. Then going through the steps in setting up my DVDO DUO to work out the steps to stretch a scope picture.
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post #38 of 54 Old 05-13-2013, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah yeah, no new pictures. Maybe I can take some tonight, because I have been working on the theater.

But I thought I would share a moment of stupidity on my part. We have been watching movies since the screen was built and projector installed (I know), so last night we bought Jack Reacher and settled in to watch the film. Now I have a pretty decent set up with the Seymour scope screen, JVC RS45, DVDO Duo, Darbee, Panamorph lens... blah blah blah. And it throws a darn nice picture in my dedicated room. About half way through the movie I was thinking to myself, wow they sure didn't do a great job filming this movie, because it isn't the sharpest film I have seen. Not terrible, just not up to razor sharp.

After the movie I was placing the disc back into the case and saw the "DVD" logo on the disc! Appearantly I was too stupid to realize I didn't insert the Bluray disc, but rather played the extra DVD that came with it! HA! Oh well, I guess when we watch it again it will be a new experience!

Just thought it was good for a laugh.

Picture updates later.
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post #39 of 54 Old 05-18-2013, 07:01 PM
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Those theater chairs are tempting for under $100 delivered. I was thinking about something like that for my second row. What was the ebay seller? Is he still around?

I can't tell from the pictures that the chairs don't match up perfectly for what it is worth. I bet no one else notices. You are probably the only one. This reminds me of my wife recently cutting me off while going into excruciating detail on some aspect of the HT room and telling me "honey just stop analyzing and get it done, you know that you are literally the only one in the world who will even notice that the THXdoohickey is not attached to the dongleberry thingy (paraphrased)."
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post #40 of 54 Old 05-18-2013, 07:43 PM
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Coming along nicely!! Love the color choice. Picking the colors has got to be one of the hardest things for me.

"Nick, what did your dad get done in the movie room tonight?" "Nothin', he just went down there and stared again".
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post #41 of 54 Old 05-19-2013, 05:46 AM
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Nice, is that fabric on your panels or paint?
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post #42 of 54 Old 05-19-2013, 06:15 AM
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Any pics of your panel building process? Do they pop out or is the upholstery stapled right to the furring strips?

"Nick, what did your dad get done in the movie room tonight?" "Nothin', he just went down there and stared again".
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post #43 of 54 Old 05-19-2013, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

Those theater chairs are tempting for under $100 delivered. I was thinking about something like that for my second row. What was the ebay seller? Is he still around?

I can't tell from the pictures that the chairs don't match up perfectly for what it is worth. I bet no one else notices. You are probably the only one. This reminds me of my wife recently cutting me off while going into excruciating detail on some aspect of the HT room and telling me "honey just stop analyzing and get it done, you know that you are literally the only one in the world who will even notice that the THXdoohickey is not attached to the dongleberry thingy (paraphrased)."


The eBay sellers name is doclaur. I just looked and he doesn't have any of the high back rockers listed but when I bought mine I actually called him on the phone (number listed in his actions) and he said he had THOUSANDS of them. He also has had these maroon ones and some blue ones. If you ask he will also include end cap arms to finish off the rows (at least he did for me). Most of the boxes looked like they fell out of an airplane but the seats arrived intact.

By the way, I don't personally know this fella, just searched and found him.
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post #44 of 54 Old 05-19-2013, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neaner72 View Post

Coming along nicely!! Love the color choice. Picking the colors has got to be one of the hardest things for me.

Thanks. My colors were pretty much dictated by the tapestry fabric I bought on eBay years and years and years ago. As is stands, if worked out very well but it was a giant pain lining up the tapestry fabric to match the pattern around the room and finding suitable lights for the walls. In hind sight, a art Nuevo or modern look would have been a lot easier. smile.gif
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post #45 of 54 Old 05-19-2013, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYGIANTSFAN23 View Post

Nice, is that fabric on your panels or paint?
Fabric. Tapestry fabric I found on eBay a long time ago and GOM brown for the bottom.
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post #46 of 54 Old 05-19-2013, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neaner72 View Post

Any pics of your panel building process? Do they pop out or is the upholstery stapled right to the furring strips?

I don't think I took any pictures of the frames construction. They were built buy ripping 2x4s to 1" thick. The ripped boards were then 1" x 1 1/2'. I wanted my panels to be 1" thick to accommodate the rigid fiberglass for my sound treatment. The frame boards were cut to length and screwed together using the Kreg pocket screw jig. I was also a little paranoid about the boards showing through so I sprayed them all with flat black. For my walls the chair rail holds the panels in the middle. I ripped a board 1" thick and 1/2" shy of the rip of the chair rail stock. Then after this stock was screwed to the wall, I attached the chair rail to that board (spacer for the panel depth) with 1/4" hanging off on the top and bottom of that spacer strip. That gave me a lip to hold part of the panels. I also had ripped stock and screw to the wall for the floor and the top of the wall. The bottom finished holding the lower panels with the attachment of the base molding to that board. The top panels aren't secured yet, so I can remove the top panels and add or remove the fiberglass behind once the carpet is installed and I do the room eq tests.

Once the fabric frames were built and painted, I upholstered them with the fabric like an artist canvass. Basically I pulled the fabric around the back of the frames and stapled them 10,000 times! I LOVE my upholstery stapler!!!
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post #47 of 54 Old 05-19-2013, 09:11 AM
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Thanks Bronco..
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post #48 of 54 Old 05-19-2013, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is a picture of the frames, assembled and fit in their places ...prior to upholstery.


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post #49 of 54 Old 06-05-2013, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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So I have noticed a small issue and don't have an idea what I did or didn't do to cause it. My ceiling is up with clips and hat track, double drywall, green glue, MDF backer boxes for the light cans. Where the projector is mounted, I screwed a 1/2" plywood board to the hat track first for the projector mount later. Now when we watch a movie and someone walks (heavily) on the floor above, the projector jiggles just a tiny amount. At first I thought that I had short circuited the decouple with too long of lag bolts for the Cheif mount, but I remeasured them, cut them shorter and put everything back up. Same thing happens. I guess my "de-couple" isn't 100% but I can't figure out where I would have screwed up. I have been very tedious about getting things right before enclosing them.

It isn't the end of the world, just erks me to no end that it "shouldn't" be doing that. It is minor enough that the only time you see it is on a very still portrait shot or is the Bluray is paused and you look for it. But I see it!

Anyone else notice something similar, where the projector jiggles a little with someone walking on the floor above??? I was wondering if the sheer weight of the JVC RS45 and the Panamorph sled/lens, was partially to blame. I know it was a giant PITA to get the screen aligned properly with that 9 lb lens hanging off it! smile.gif
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post #50 of 54 Old 06-05-2013, 09:24 AM
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There isn't anything you did wrong, Even with the clips and channel some floor bounce will make it to the mount if your ceiling structure was already prone to the problem before you started.

Some guys have tweeked their mounts with some success, Chief makes a vibration reducing mount. Other guys have mounted their projectors off of the rear wall. Adding secondary ceiling joists resting just on decoupled walls would also be a strategy but it is way to late for that.
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post #51 of 54 Old 06-05-2013, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks BIG. I guess that is a relief. I have really been hard on myself trying to mentally remember what all I did (or didn't) do that could have caused this issue. I do see now because you mentioned that the floor joist are likely bouncing and not stiff enough. I guess I never thought about that aspect and IF we ever move and I hit my head to start another theater..... I will be framing in dedicated joists, just for the theater room, for a fully decoupled ceiling!
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post #52 of 54 Old 06-05-2013, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoSport View Post

Thanks BIG. I guess that is a relief. I have really been hard on myself trying to mentally remember what all I did (or didn't) do that could have caused this issue. I do see now because you mentioned that the floor joist are likely bouncing and not stiff enough. I guess I never thought about that aspect and IF we ever move and I hit my head to start another theater..... I will be framing in dedicated joists, just for the theater room, for a fully decoupled ceiling!

If it is up and down movement, then there is not a lot that you can do, other than wall mount. If it is side to side movement of the mount, then you can try:

Da-Lite CM-VIP: http://www.da-lite.com/products/product.php?cID=67&pID=407
Chief CMA-345: http://www.chiefmfg.com/Products/CMA345

If we are talking a lot of vibration, then, Chief CMA347: http://www.chiefmfg.com/Products/cma347

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales
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post #53 of 54 Old 06-05-2013, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike, it's mostly up and down movement, so ..oh well. For reference I would say that the picture might move 1/8" to 1/4" under heavy walking upstairs. That is thrown about 17' from the JVC RS45 I bought from you and onto a 124" wide scope screen, so the movement is slightly magnified with the large-ish screen. It's not horribly noticeable....but being the theater obsessed person.... I see it and couldn't understand WHY!. It is firmly mounted with the Chief mount, though. I do not see any picture movement even when my SVS PC-Ultra13 is hitting hard.

What BIG said makes sence to me and I hadn't thought about that aspect. The ceiling joist are about 14.5 long 2x10s and I know from my woodworking experience that those 2x10s will have a very small amount of deflection..so I guess it is what it is.

Good news is that the kitchen is directly above the theater and generally we are all sitting in the theater at the same time!

Thanks
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post #54 of 54 Old 06-05-2013, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike, that Chief CMA347 is a cool looking add on ( I watched the video) and looks to be something that would completely remove my projector jiggle. Do you know how much lower that would cause my projector to hang down??
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