Theater Xanadu -- the design phase: Some interesting challenges within .... Pls help - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 Old 07-12-2012, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
RishM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
For a long time, I was following the posters here with a mix of awe and envy. So, it is finally time for me to convert part of my basement into a dedicated HT. However, the space configuration poses a number of challenges. I would love some opinions, critiques and help on my design.

The floor plan is as below. By my calculations, I should get a theater space of 16 x 20 as shown.
307

I am currently thinking about a 126" diagonal screen ( outside dimen = 116.5 inches wide by 68.5 inches high)

The first challenge is that there is a furnace, water heater and water softener in the far left of the area shown. This section is covered on 3 sides with concrete foundation. If I put up a wall on the 4th side, obviously I will need to provide an access door of some sorts. I will need to access the utility area once every month or two months (to add salt to the softener)

My design is to have a fixed screen, hinged at the top, so that it could be swung up and latched. Also, have part of the wall on a tracking system, so that it could be slid out and provide access to utilities. Is this is a good idea ? Could this be effectively sound-proofed ?

The other alternative is to have the screen on the opposite end - where the door's motion intersects with the projector. This would cause the seating to be much closer to the two sources of sound - the furnace and the heater. So, I am not too crazy about the configuration.

Thoughts and ideas ?
RishM is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 07-13-2012, 11:36 AM
Member
 
atolnay00's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I like the idea of putting you're screen on the opposite wall. You can come out from the exisiting wall so that the full length of the wall is flat (frame out the left corner so it is a flush wall) this would give you a bit more room to position a nice size screen.Then you can work on soundproofing the back wall so that the furnace room wont spill into the theater, Double drywall, green glue, new ext door or at least threshhold. I am no expert but the idea of building a soundproof, moveable screenwall seems extremely difficult and expensive
atolnay00 is offline  
post #3 of 16 Old 07-13-2012, 12:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
GWCR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 827
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Sliding doors and soundproofing don't work well together IMO. I would also hate to have to remove items from the screen wall if (heaven forbid) the furnace, water heater or softener need to be serviced or replaced. I like the idea of moving the screen to the opposite wall. Is relocating the door an option? Also, where does that hallway go on the right side of the pic? Could you close that off and add another door kind of like this?

600x307px-LL-50920d81_HT1-1.jpg
GWCR is offline  
 
post #4 of 16 Old 07-13-2012, 02:32 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
HopefulFred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 3,684
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 523 Post(s)
Liked: 484
Two rows? I'd agree that flipping the screen to the right simplifies the utility access, but it messes up riser/ceiling height. I'd lean toward a fully removable screen (french cleat for major movement), with maybe a concealed walk-around access and a sealed door for routine personal access. Is that wall already in place? Could it be moved to get a little more length, or is that not a concern?

Fred
HopefulFred is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 07-13-2012, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
RishM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks a lot for the feedback and questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atolnay00 View Post

I like the idea of putting you're screen on the opposite wall. You can come out from the exisiting wall so that the full length of the wall is flat (frame out the left corner so it is a flush wall) this would give you a bit more room to position a nice size screen.Then you can work on soundproofing the back wall so that the furnace room wont spill into the theater, Double drywall, green glue, new ext door or at least threshhold. I am no expert but the idea of building a soundproof, moveable screenwall seems extremely difficult and expensive

Even if I put the screen on the opposite wall, I would still need to have a door to access the utilities. If the door cannot be adequately soundproofed, then I have a bigger problem, because the seats would be closer to the utilities, making the sound leakage more serious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GWCR View Post

Sliding doors and soundproofing don't work well together IMO. I would also hate to have to remove items from the screen wall if (heaven forbid) the furnace, water heater or softener need to be serviced or replaced. I like the idea of moving the screen to the opposite wall. Is relocating the door an option? Also, where does that hallway go on the right side of the pic? Could you close that off and add another door kind of like this?

Here is a larger floor plan. Every part of the basement was finished by the previous owner, except for the area under consideration.
298

The closeup of the unfinished area, with the theater area in tan color. The blue walls don't exist, and must be built. The door opening must be large enough to accommodate a new furnace (in case it needs to be replaced).
Relocating the door is certainly an option. Right now, it opens from a storage room with storage cabinets on three walls. They could be removed and the door moved to the right if necessary.

313
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

Two rows? I'd agree that flipping the screen to the right simplifies the utility access, but it messes up riser/ceiling height. I'd lean toward a fully removable screen (french cleat for major movement), with maybe a concealed walk-around access and a sealed door for routine personal access. Is that wall already in place? Could it be moved to get a little more length, or is that not a concern?
Fred

Hi Fred, The wall shown in blue in the new picture does NOT exist. It needs to be built - so, obviously there is some flexibility. All other walls shown are already there. Before I start worrying about the size of the theater room, I would want to finalize the design of the back wall.

Please keep the questions and ideas coming.
RishM is offline  
post #6 of 16 Old 07-14-2012, 10:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Brad Horstkotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 5,128
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 73
If the wall is 16' wide, and the screen is about 11' wide, that still leaves 2 1/2' on each side, you could put a narrow door on one side and disguise it to match the rest of the front wall, like black fabric. Or a full size door, and the screen hangs from a sliding track, so you can slide it to the side to access the door.

First thing that came to mind seeing that utility room though is it would make a nice infinite baffle subwoofer chamber. =D
Brad Horstkotte is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 07-15-2012, 05:35 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 6,740
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1146 Post(s)
Liked: 437
Would you be open to rebuilding some of the entry area?

+1 for Brad's door suggestion. I'd shrink the screen width for a little more door width, pull the seating forward and keep the back row off the back wall.
Since you have 8.5' of height, extend the riser full room width and extend the riser out past the door as a step. Av rack goes in the entry area, in wall.

ff1a1a67_HT2bc.jpg 129k .jpg file

How many seats are you after?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ff1a1a67_HT2bc.jpg
Views:	93
Size:	129.0 KB
ID:	62381  
Tedd is offline  
post #8 of 16 Old 07-15-2012, 05:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 6,740
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1146 Post(s)
Liked: 437
or:

ff1a1a67_HT2bd.jpg 135k .jpg file
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ff1a1a67_HT2bd.jpg
Views:	73
Size:	135.3 KB
ID:	62382  
Tedd is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 07-15-2012, 06:04 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 6,740
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1146 Post(s)
Liked: 437
Or skip an entry door at the theater......

ff1a1a67retr_HT2be.jpg 139k .jpg file
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ff1a1a67retr_HT2be.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	139.1 KB
ID:	62386  
Tedd is offline  
post #10 of 16 Old 07-18-2012, 05:05 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 6,740
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1146 Post(s)
Liked: 437
a rough cut and paste pic that shows how a doorless entry could look. The entry area could be played up as a lobby and be given a black marble tile floor.

entry.JPG 179k .JPG file
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	entry.JPG
Views:	76
Size:	179.0 KB
ID:	62460  
Tedd is offline  
post #11 of 16 Old 07-18-2012, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
RishM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Brad : thank you very much for the idea about the door - I love the idea for its simplicity.

Tedd : Thanks a lot for the suggestions. Upon, further site survey and measurements, I have hit upon a few more obstacles (see below) and don't think I will be able to open up the corridor.

There are 3 HVAC ducts laid out along the length of the HT room. Two of these ducts are for supply and return from the finished part of the basement. The third is the supply to the first floor. These ducts take up about only 8-inches of the height, but take up nearly 6 ft of the width of the home theater (total width = 16.5 ft). See the pictures below for a quick visualization of the room. The ducts are in red. The back-walls have been removed for clarity.

403
403

The view from the projector spot is as below :
403
As you can see, the duct work has barely missed interfering with the projector's image.


The other problem is that the duct work runs behind the back wall of the closed up corridor. This makes knocking the wall down to create an open corridor as Tedd suggests a very expensive proposition (as the ducts will have to be rerouted).

1. What is the best way to sound-proof the ducts in this configuration ? My idea is to run a double-drywall + GG under the ducts and the sides to make it look like a soffit. Also, I would need to have a corresponding true soffit on the other side of the room.
2. The projector distance to the screen is approximately 1.5x the width of the screen. I believe this is within the expected guidelines. Is that right ?

I am voraciously reading through the AVS hometheaterbook and am learning a lot as I do so. However, I could use a lot of help in the design phase. So, I appreciate the feedback and opinions.

Thanks.
RishM is offline  
post #12 of 16 Old 07-19-2012, 03:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 6,740
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1146 Post(s)
Liked: 437
How tall is the room under the duct work? Wide soffits might interfere with riser seating so your room's height might impact on seating and riser heights.
The duct work might very well not be needing to be reworked. As for expensive, that was the best money I spent in my small room.

Or skip the full width riser...Or do a low full width riser and an island style riser on top of that.

As I was looking to save every inch of height, my soffits are 3/4" plywood/GG/5/8" drywall/GG/5/8" drywall. My duct work was new sheet metal in a wider/less tall
profile and the cold air return was moved, and the central vac was moved.

What projector? I'd download the pdf manual and make sure. I'd also start to look at how room height and the soffits, impact on screen size and the back row's ability
to see the bottom of the screen. A side view drawing of sightlines will tell you if things will work.
Tedd is offline  
post #13 of 16 Old 07-19-2012, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
RishM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

How tall is the room under the duct work? Wide soffits might interfere with riser seating so your room's height might impact on seating and riser heights.
The duct work might very well not be needing to be reworked. As for expensive, that was the best money I spent in my small room.

The ducts only protrude about 8 inches into the room. So the room height is 7' 2" near the screen and 7'10" near the back wall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

Or skip the full width riser...Or do a low full width riser and an island style riser on top of that.
As I was looking to save every inch of height, my soffits are 3/4" plywood/GG/5/8" drywall/GG/5/8" drywall. My duct work was new sheet metal in a wider/less tall
profile and the cold air return was moved, and the central vac was moved.

I am definitely considering an island style riser. Using the theater room calculator, I calculate the riser height to be about 10".
I do want to save every inch of height. so I will go with your plywood +GDGD approach. How did you attach the plywood to the wall ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

What projector? I'd download the pdf manual and make sure. I'd also start to look at how room height and the soffits, impact on screen size and the back row's ability
to see the bottom of the screen. A side view drawing of sightlines will tell you if things will work.

I have not researched the projectors yet. From the design I am assuming it would be an Epson 5010. For the 126" screen I am considering the recommended throw distance seems to be from 14.3 to 19.5 ft - of which I would like to be closer to the low end.

I am working on a side view drawing showing sightlines and will post it here for comments.
RishM is offline  
post #14 of 16 Old 07-22-2012, 07:52 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 6,740
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1146 Post(s)
Liked: 437
I'd like to see some photos of the duct work. The open entry could have a lower ceiling and maybe not disturb any of the existing ductwork.

Here's a pic of my front AT wall. 7'1" ceiling height, 79" below the soffits, 9'5" wide, 54x96" screen and the black velvet panels are a horizontal masking system.
Your space is bigger but has common issues with my smaller build.

upper1.JPG 29k .JPG file

My 4" spots also have double wall/GG back boxes. The soffits are attached by 2x2". No RISC as I was right at local building code.

Offset the seating might be another consideration to help with ceiling height. You also want to be careful that the projector doesn't end up in the walkway or over the
second row of seating.

So how many seated bodies are you looking to accomodate?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	upper1.JPG
Views:	87
Size:	28.9 KB
ID:	62533  
Tedd is offline  
post #15 of 16 Old 07-22-2012, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
RishM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

I'd like to see some photos of the duct work. The open entry could have a lower ceiling and maybe not disturb any of the existing ductwork.

The duct work has supply ducts for finished basement, formal living room and formal dining room upstairs. But these ducts are between the ceiling joists. So they are not a problem. They are atleast 8 feet tall. The only problem is the return duct for the basement is at the bottom of the closed area.

However, I might be warming up the idea of knocking down the corner of the bathroom that is right next the duct and creating an angled-doorway, and making it the main entrance to the theater. I will post some sketches of this idea later for comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

Offset the seating might be another consideration to help with ceiling height. You also want to be careful that the projector doesn't end up in the walkway or over the
second row of seating.
So how many seated bodies are you looking to accomodate?

Very interesting point about the projector being in the walkway of the second row. I calculate the bottom of the projector to be about 7ft from the top of the riser. Is that enough headroom or still a cause for concern ? I admit that someone could reach up and touch it easily, but I think it is the accidental head-bumps that we are trying to avoid, correct ?


As you can see from the renders below, I am trying to create seating for 5.

Here are some quick renders and some line-of-sight calculations. I appreciate everyone's input and comments.









Here are some of the design questions I am wrestling with.

1. The two longer sides of the theater are external concrete walls. I am thinking the following design for the walls along those sides.
(Concrete wall) + (faced fiberglass insulation) + 5/8DW + GG + 5/8DW + 2x4 Studs (not staggered) + 5/8DW + GG + 5/8DW

Do I have it right ?

Do I need to go with staggered studs on the wall next to the external concrete walls ?

2. I think I understand how to attach the drywalls to the ceiling joists using RSIC clips + Hat channels. Can someone point me to a diagram on how to attach the DD+GG layers when there are no accessible ceiling joists ? I have this problem along one side of the room where there are three big ducts connected to the ceiling joists.

3. Finally, I guess somewhat a rookie question. If I need to get a building permit from my town, do I need a set of "official" engineering drawings ? This is the first time I am constructing anything in my house and want to know if my own "engineering" drawings are acceptable. I am quite handy with Visio tongue.giftongue.gif
RishM is offline  
post #16 of 16 Old 07-22-2012, 04:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 6,740
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1146 Post(s)
Liked: 437
Call the building department and ask what they require in terms of plans.

Why not a front row of three seats and two on the riser? wink.gif The center channel down low is going to be an issue for the second row dialog.
Side surrounds should be at the end of the primary seating row.

If the ceiling isn't isolated, why use RISC clips? No staggered stud walls for the exterior walls.

Line of sight from the room's side view, will tell you more. Like whether the projector is in the way, and whether the rear row can see the bottom of the screen. And why is the seating
so far from the screen? I'd pull the seating forward and the second row off the back wall more.

If the projector is 7' from the riser, and has no drop, then it's not likely an issue. Some projectors call for mounting at the top of the screen and that might be an issue. I would download
an owner's manual in pdf form, for the 5010, and see exactly what is called for.
Tedd is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off