Please Help with the Acoustics in my clients Home Theater - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 08-17-2012, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys, Im new at this Forum as you can see so please bare with me and my ignorance, also english is not my first language so please forgive my writting.

I need help with the sound treatmets for this HT project. My company does home automation, integration, security, cctv, distributed audio, well you get the picture. This is the first time we do a dedicated Home Theater room, in the past we have installed projectors, screens, and audio but in leaving rooms or multypurpose rooms and as you all know is very diferent if the client is giving us a complete isolated room for a dedicated HT. But this projects has had its ups and downs, first of all we are working on a budget so the client blew of our 7.2 surround configuration for a 5.1 regular one and changed the projector from a Runco to a Benq W7000, the AVR from a Denon 3313CI to a Denon 2312 but we manage to convince them in the Jamo D500 Speakers a Jamo 650 Subwoofer and the 120" Stewart Screen. I think it is a very decent Setup, what do you guys think?

But mosto of the problems i have recently encountered is that there is a lot echo in the room, we havent even installed the speakers but it is anoying to work inside with all the voices bouncing. I have alredy convinced them on using carpet for the floor, but the sound is still very bad. The Room itself has a wierd cieling because part of the room is an adaptation to an existing one and i think that causes most of the problems.

Top View of the HT



Side View



I have already told the architects and owners about this issue but they dont want to use room treatments, primarily because they dont understand the importance of it. So they told me to treat the most critical areas and that is the problem here, i dont know the first thing about it, i have been reading some forums and books but i still dont get it.

So please some one help me deciding where to put the treatments and what type..

Thanks in advance
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post #2 of 15 Old 08-17-2012, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Ohh yeahh forgot to mention that i am in Mexico, so the constructions here are made of block and concrete..
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post #3 of 15 Old 08-20-2012, 04:21 AM
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Contact Federico at www.multimedia.com.mx

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post #4 of 15 Old 08-20-2012, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tip. They are kind of our competition, we are also an integration company, allthough not in the same cities than we are in and they are very big company not like us we are more like boutique personalized service. We used to have our expert in the matter but it is no longer with us and i wish to adress this subject as soon as posible because i have to start installing the equipment in two weeks. We are working to solve this void left by the expert that left us, we are taking one of our architects to CEDIA in September and making her take a bunch of courses and trainings, my asociates and i are taking the trainings too so this never happens again. Back to the "Federico" i dont know if it is a good idea to let them know that there is a good market for integrators where we are (this is obvioulsy viewing it as a busynessman point of view) im not saying they are going to rush and come to our territory but i dont know if it is the smartest move.

But thank you once again for your input. We'll be sure to contact them if we feel a project is to large or complicated for us.

Regards.
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post #5 of 15 Old 08-20-2012, 08:01 PM
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You can start by using the mirror trick for the side reflections and most likely ceiling too. I'm ignorant to most of the properties that need to be used and paid the above poster for my plans but using mirrors from the seating positions is an old trick to get you started. Just find the first reflection points and test them to see what kind of dampening you get. A solid block room is a horrible starting point that I'm sure will take aggressive acoustic treatments to tame.

There are a couple of really good threads in this section of the forum that will give you a lot of helpful information to get you started at the very least. Search "acoustical treaments master thread".
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post #6 of 15 Old 08-20-2012, 08:32 PM
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Consider using the AVS layout service. It is inexpensive and Dennis does a great job showing what treatments you need and where. He will also outline proper speaker placement and make equipment suggestions. I am sure they would be fine with you "subbing" this out to them. Well worth the money spent, IMHO.

Shan
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post #7 of 15 Old 08-20-2012, 09:59 PM
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Honestly, you own a business getting paid to deliver a service, and then in this forum you want "help"?

How much per hour are you willing to pay?

Think about your post from the viewpoint of people who regulartly come to this forum.....
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post #8 of 15 Old 08-20-2012, 10:54 PM - Thread Starter
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mtbdudex

I completly understand what you are saying. If you read my post i said that our expert in charge of this kind of projects left us in the middle of the project. I came here to find a way to solve this, because acording to schedule we most be installing in a couple of weeks. There are not many experts around where i live, belive me i know my own mexicana, a lot of people might say they know how to do it but it is another thing to do it properly. And the few companies infound are either to far away or they are my competiton. I came here in search for insight not actually some one solving my problem for free, i never said i wasnt willimg to pay anyone, but yet inwouldt know how much to pay for this servicel i never had to because i had my inhouse expert. Also i said that we are adressing this issue professionally by going to training, courses , certifications etc so this doesent hapens again, but they are until september.

Im sorry if my thread offended you but i didnt know what else to do or where to start from, both my associates are Ti engineers and i am electronic enginer, by no means this area or our expertice and we felt like fish out of the water. I now know that there are tons of people out there that do this profesional way and eve outsourxe the design but i may have never known that if didnt start this thread.
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post #9 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 02:57 AM
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You can pay us to do the acoustic design or, at CEDIA, you must be certain your architect takes the HAA courses (see www.homeacoustics.net). You cannot miss the Level II Workshop ... you do get CEDIA credits for these courses.

HAA Crash Course Workshop (CEDIA) Indianapolis, IN Sept 9
HAA Level I Seminar (CEDIA) Indianapolis, IN Sept 10
HAA Level II Workshop (CEDIA) Indianapolis, IN Sept 11-12

Dennis Erskine CFI, CFII, MEI
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Certified Home Theater Designer
CEDIA Board of Directors
www.erskine-group.com
www.CinemaForte.net
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post #10 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan View Post

Consider using the AVS layout service. It is inexpensive and Dennis does a great job showing what treatments you need and where. He will also outline proper speaker placement and make equipment suggestions. I am sure they would be fine with you "subbing" this out to them. Well worth the money spent, IMHO.
Shan

+1, call The Erskine Group. Sub out the acoustics design, for this one.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the universe. -Fishbone
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post #11 of 15 Old 08-21-2012, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

You can pay us to do the acoustic design or, at CEDIA, you must be certain your architect takes the HAA courses (see www.homeacoustics.net). You cannot miss the Level II Workshop ... you do get CEDIA credits for these courses.
HAA Crash Course Workshop (CEDIA) Indianapolis, IN Sept 9
HAA Level I Seminar (CEDIA) Indianapolis, IN Sept 10
HAA Level II Workshop (CEDIA) Indianapolis, IN Sept 11-12

I think i have to take that courses also. It is must. We are looking forward to making the diference in our territory. it is scary how few knowladge of this very important subject the so called professionals where i live have.

How can i contact you to ask more about the price of your service?

Regards.
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post #12 of 15 Old 08-22-2012, 07:50 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1400898/pro-theatre-layout-service

http://www.erskine-group.com/

PM Dennis Erskine or SierraMikeBravo (Shawn Byrne) here on AVS.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

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post #13 of 15 Old 08-27-2012, 02:29 PM
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I think it's an excellent idea to take some classes on acoustics at CEDIA, but highly recommend you sub with experts. Every job has unique goals and constraints. You cannot become an engineer after taking a few classes. Some acoustical firms, like us, will be happy to work as much in front or behind the scenes as you wish, all the while being a profit center for you for noise control and sound quality services and products. Some, like us, provide modeling and/or on-site services for clients around the globe.
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post #14 of 15 Old 08-27-2012, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman Varney View Post

I think it's an excellent idea to take some classes on acoustics at CEDIA, but highly recommend you sub with experts. Every job has unique goals and constraints. You cannot become an engineer after taking a few classes. Some acoustical firms, like us, will be happy to work as much in front or behind the scenes as you wish, all the while being a profit center for you for noise control and sound quality services and products. Some, like us, provide modeling and/or on-site services for clients around the globe.


Of course we are willing to sub experts. The issue in this particular case is that we where only hired to provide the AV equipment and used to have our own expert for the more "Complete projects" . In this particular case we didnt do any design or anything else than provide de AV. But then we saw the nightmare the acoustics would be. We know that if the sound is not correct the client is going to think that our equiment is to blame and not the architects design and lack of acoustic treatments. We are not charging for any design, room correction, calibration or anything because the client didnt think it was important thats why we are trying to solve this within our means. They already asked for a big discount so we cannot sub anyone this time without loosing money, thats why we came to this forum. The CEDIA classes are not to become experts but to be able to at least see this isses comming and know how to adress them properly in the correct timing.

Regards
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post #15 of 15 Old 09-04-2012, 12:26 PM
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+1 for the Erskine Group

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