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post #181 of 597 Old 01-25-2013, 03:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Robin. I think the Geranium matches the closest.. but I'm leaning toward the red as my favorite.

Tim
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post #182 of 597 Old 01-26-2013, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Good progress today, got the doors cased out and the second layer of plywood green glued.

Here's how my nosing worked out:
IMG_1607.JPG

I installed the nosing first, which was 3/4" tall on the backside. I added a layer of 3/8 ply with GG.. This brought the lip to 3/8", which will hopefully work well with the carpet.

Here's how the casing is shaping up:
IMG_1608.JPG

I made the door jamb an inch wider than the wall. The casing obviously attaches to the jamb on one side; on the other side it has an inch shim between it and the sheetrock.

Then I ripped a 1x6 into 2-5/8" strips. I routed a 3/4" wide by 1/8" deep groove in the strip, into which the casing fits. Now I can do my wall treatments (ATM thinking 2-1/2" deep frames-- 2" acoustic material with 1/2" airspace between wall and material) and the casing won't look silly.

I'm going to add some more detail.. I got some nose and cove molding, but I am going to need to add something else.

Tim
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post #183 of 597 Old 01-26-2013, 08:25 PM
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Looks good, sir! I'm envious of your woodworking skills.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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post #184 of 597 Old 01-27-2013, 04:26 PM
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Tim, scanning through your thread (theater looks great btw!), I didn't see if you had picked a projector yet. If not, might want to consider a projector that can be controlled over IP. A receiver too, if you haven't made that decision. It frees up your IR ports on the GC-100, but more importantly allows for feedback within the iRule app.
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post #185 of 597 Old 01-27-2013, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Looks good, sir! I'm envious of your woodworking skills.

Thanks, J_P_A. It's been a while since I did any carpentry (made a few rookie mistakes that I wouldn't have made a decade ago). Although it's taken forever, it has been a labor of love. I've enjoyed it, except for the parts that I wanted to take a chainsaw to while screaming explicatives.
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Originally Posted by rs691919 View Post

Tim, scanning through your thread (theater looks great btw!), I didn't see if you had picked a projector yet. If not, might want to consider a projector that can be controlled over IP. A receiver too, if you haven't made that decision. It frees up your IR ports on the GC-100, but more importantly allows for feedback within the iRule app.

Yeah, I need to pick out a projector. I had originally been looking at a Mitsubishi HC-something. Well, when I started the theater I was looking at the Panasonic AE2000, good thing I didn't buy it!

I am open to suggestions on the PJ.. but ATM it looks like it will be whatever I can pick up cheap. Any suggestions for good value in an older PJ?

Tim
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post #186 of 597 Old 01-27-2013, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

Thanks, J_P_A. It's been a while since I did any carpentry (made a few rookie mistakes that I wouldn't have made a decade ago). Although it's taken forever, it has been a labor of love. I've enjoyed it, except for the parts that I wanted to take a chainsaw to while screaming explicatives.
Yeah, I need to pick out a projector. I had originally been looking at a Mitsubishi HC-something. Well, when I started the theater I was looking at the Panasonic AE2000, good thing I didn't buy it!

I am open to suggestions on the PJ.. but ATM it looks like it will be whatever I can pick up cheap. Any suggestions for good value in an older PJ?

Tim

How long is your throw going to be, and what size screen?
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post #187 of 597 Old 01-27-2013, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Spent most of my day in this corner:
IMG_1610.JPG

Many little pieces coming together. Throw in the fact that I cut some of the pieces too short.. and it made for a lot of work. I had to set up the lock miter and the tenon bits again to route more pieces. I can't tell you how thrilled I was.

However, I think I may be done with the rails and stiles. I'm gluing up the rear column pieces as I type.. I think I finally have all the pieces I need.

I started milling the cap for the wainscoting. Relatively easy.. 3/16 roundover on the front edges and a 1/8" dado so it sits on the top rail nicely. I expect it will go respectably fast as most of the runs are straight, although I do have the radius drywall corners to deal with. I started mocking up how I was going to do these corners and came up with a plan. I'll take photos when I get one done.

I also installed my new toy on the sander:
IMG_1609.JPG

It works pretty good. Certainly not 100%, but it does get a lot of the dust. I also got some Mirka paper for it.. stuff works great.

Tim
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post #188 of 597 Old 01-27-2013, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rs691919 View Post

How long is your throw going to be, and what size screen?

~14 foot throw, 120" wide 2.35:1. No anamorphic lens.

I have a little wiggle room on the throw, say 13'-6" to 14'-6"

Tim
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post #189 of 597 Old 01-27-2013, 05:03 PM
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~14 foot throw, 120" wide 2.35:1. No anamorphic lens.

I have a little wiggle room on the throw, say 13'-6" to 14'-6"

Tim

And budget?
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post #190 of 597 Old 01-27-2013, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Cheaper is better smile.gif I can get something new <$2k so on the used front I would be looking at <$1k. I don't want 3D and I don't need retina-burning brightness. I need something on the ceiling that will give me a decent picture at 120" wide. Just looking to get the job done. House will be going on the market, so I just need to demo a finished theater.

The Mitsu HC6500 was the one I was looking at a while back. Guess they don't sell it any longer.

Tim
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post #191 of 597 Old 01-31-2013, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

Cheaper is better smile.gif Just looking to get the job done. House will be going on the market, so I just need to demo a finished theater.

I missed this the first time I read through it. That's kind of a bummer.

You can check the bay used projectors. I've seen decent used 720 projectors with minimal hours go for $100.

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Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
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post #192 of 597 Old 01-31-2013, 11:47 AM
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Wow. I missed that, too. I guess you can look at this as a practice run for HT 2.0 smile.gif

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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post #193 of 597 Old 01-31-2013, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

Cheaper is better smile.gif I can get something new <$2k so on the used front I would be looking at <$1k. I don't want 3D and I don't need retina-burning brightness. I need something on the ceiling that will give me a decent picture at 120" wide. Just looking to get the job done. House will be going on the market, so I just need to demo a finished theater.

The Mitsu HC6500 was the one I was looking at a while back. Guess they don't sell it any longer.

Tim

 

Wow!!  This is a big surprise.  Where are you moving to?

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post #194 of 597 Old 01-31-2013, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

I missed this the first time I read through it. That's kind of a bummer.

You can check the bay used projectors. I've seen decent used 720 projectors with minimal hours go for $100.

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Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Wow. I missed that, too. I guess you can look at this as a practice run for HT 2.0 smile.gif

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Originally Posted by NGiovas View Post

Wow!!  This is a big surprise.  Where are you moving to?

It's not a spur of the moment thing.. We've been looking at selling for a few years and have had it on/off the market twice. I think the economy is finally to a point where we should jump in. We've had some tire kickers in the past and frankly I didn't have the patience to deal with them or real estate agents. Now that people realize they missed the bottom of the market, hopefully we can get some serious offers.

On the plus side this is a totally elective decision ( I guess the agents finally believe us after having yanked it twice already), and will definitely yield a transition to a bigger home, and the next home absolutely will have a workshop! No more shade tree/winter wonderland woodwork smile.gif oh.. and another theater, of course smile.gif

So anyway, I was looking at the Epson 8350. Seems to have decent reviews and is on the fringe of being able to handle my screen with some dignity. HD20 was another idea, but I can get a refurb epson for less than $1000 with a warranty.. so seems like a better way to go.

On deck for this weekend.. finishing up the carpentry.. which is not much at this point.. and starting the final paint.

Tim
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post #195 of 597 Old 02-02-2013, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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After trying a few different options, I decided on how I was going to wrap the trim around the radius corner bead:
IMG_1611.JPG

I rounded the cap to match the drywall. This is in a traffic area, so I figured it would be best to eliminate a sharp corner at about waste height.


I also got the rear columns done (except for final glue-up on some parts):
IMG_1612.JPG

Path light will be at the bottom. Central vac sticking out of the panel.


This side will be all fabric:
IMG_1615.JPG

I'm thinking pink fluffy inside for a trap. Curious what would work better.. full of pink fluffy... 12" of pink fluffy with air gap behind.. or 6" pink fluffy+membrane+6" pink fluffy. We'll see how motivated I am.. it wouldn't be a big deal to try the different techniques and measure the response.

Tim
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post #196 of 597 Old 02-02-2013, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
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I'm thinking pink fluffy inside for a trap. Curious what would work better.. full of pink fluffy... 12" of pink fluffy with air gap behind.. or 6" pink fluffy+membrane+6" pink fluffy. We'll see how motivated I am.. it wouldn't be a big deal to try the different techniques and measure the response.

Aren't you selling this place?? wink.gif I'd be looking for the cheapest and fastest way to the finish line.
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post #197 of 597 Old 02-03-2013, 04:50 AM - Thread Starter
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The way I look at it.. it's my house until somebody buys it. I'm not going to put an RS45 in there, but it's just not in my DNA to shortcut anything. It'll be good info to have on hand for the next theater biggrin.gif

Tim
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post #198 of 597 Old 02-03-2013, 01:56 PM
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I figured someone more experienced would have answered by now, so I was keeping my mouth shut, but I'd go with fluffy.
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post #199 of 597 Old 02-03-2013, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I figured someone more experienced would have answered by now, so I was keeping my mouth shut, but I'd go with fluffy.

Thanks Fred. If I'm gonna "set it and forget it", I'll do full depth pink fluffy. If' I'm feeling particularly productive, I'll try the different methods.

Was about to squeeze the trigger on a UMIK-1, but got distracted by something and didn't get around to it. I may wander back over to minidsp tonight and place an order.

Lots of trim went up today. I have about 15 feet of cap for the wainscot left to install and add some detail to the door casings. I forgot about the crown molding :doh:, so I'll have to do that as well. That should go pretty fast though.. all full lengths.

On the back wall you can see I have 1/2" GWB on the bottom half of the wall. I am going to create fabric frames from floor to ceiling with 3/4" thick material. However, I'll have to shim the top half of the wall with 1/2" shims to get the panels flat.

I was thinking about using strips of plywood to create some diffusion, thusly:
Back_Wall.JPG

I'm just guessing at it.... any validity to the idea, or just a waste of time?

Tim
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post #200 of 597 Old 02-06-2013, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
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No takers on the rear wall treatments, eh?

Next item up for discussion is seating. Originally (for the past 5? years) it was going to be a row of three in the front and a row of four on the main (money seat) riser. A few column redesigns along the way and.... I don't think a row of 4 is going to work.

I have a few options..

1. A row of 4. That leaves 1" on either side between the chair and the column (speaker is inside the column).
2. A row of 4 as dual loveseats. I kind of like this option. Leaves about 7" clear on either side. However, like option 1, there's an armrest in the middle of the money seat.
3. A row of 3. Probably the best option, leaves 15" on either side and gives me a money seat.

I just want to provide seating for how the room will be used. With the wife and two kids any of the options will work. With guests I guess it's guys in one row and girls in another if I go with a row of 3.

I don't think a row of 4 is a real option. At this point I am leaning towards row of 3 over dual loveseats.

Tim
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post #201 of 597 Old 02-06-2013, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

I figured someone more experienced would have answered by now, so I was keeping my mouth shut, but I'd go with fluffy.

Thanks Fred. If I'm gonna "set it and forget it", I'll do full depth pink fluffy. If' I'm feeling particularly productive, I'll try the different methods.

Was about to squeeze the trigger on a UMIK-1, but got distracted by something and didn't get around to it. I may wander back over to minidsp tonight and place an order.

Lots of trim went up today. I have about 15 feet of cap for the wainscot left to install and add some detail to the door casings. I forgot about the crown molding :doh:, so I'll have to do that as well. That should go pretty fast though.. all full lengths.

On the back wall you can see I have 1/2" GWB on the bottom half of the wall. I am going to create fabric frames from floor to ceiling with 3/4" thick material. However, I'll have to shim the top half of the wall with 1/2" shims to get the panels flat.

I was thinking about using strips of plywood to create some diffusion, thusly:
Back_Wall.JPG

I'm just guessing at it.... any validity to the idea, or just a waste of time?

Tim

What is going to be behind the slats?

If you do broadband absorption behind the slats the "diffuser" will "work" on lower frequencies. The difffusion frequency lower limit is dictated by the size of the diffusing element, which in your case looks like +/- 6" which is close to ~1000-2000Hz. That diffusion is practically transparent to frequencies below that.

AFA the sizes you used and pattern, did you use any mathmatical deriviation? Arbitrary diffusion will not evenly diffuse the sound and probably will introduce some comb filtering.

How far is the diffuser to the LP? Diffusion needs distance to "work." At least 6' from what I've read.

Having said that, IMO for the back wall, imperfect diffusion is better than a bare flat wall, but maybe not quite as good as a traditional broadband absorber. A confirmed diffusion design like a QRD with adequate spacing would be ideal though.

Bare Wall

Here is a good resource to help calculate how to construct a QRD if your interested.
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post #202 of 597 Old 02-06-2013, 06:22 AM
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I didn't notice your rear wall treatment earlier. Apart from what Nick said, which seems to be pointing in the right direction, it would be more effective to diffuse with vertical elements. Horizontal slats like this will redirect sound into the floor and ceiling. This thread follows someone on a similar path, and I think leads to useful conclusions for you.
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post #203 of 597 Old 02-06-2013, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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What is going to be behind the slats?

If you do broadband absorption behind the slats the "diffuser" will "work" on lower frequencies. The difffusion frequency lower limit is dictated by the size of the diffusing element, which in your case looks like +/- 6" which is close to ~1000-2000Hz. That diffusion is practically transparent to frequencies below that.

AFA the sizes you used and pattern, did you use any mathmatical deriviation? Arbitrary diffusion will not evenly diffuse the sound and probably will introduce some comb filtering.

How far is the diffuser to the LP? Diffusion needs distance to "work." At least 6' from what I've read.

Having said that, IMO for the back wall, imperfect diffusion is better than a bare flat wall, but maybe not quite as good as a traditional broadband absorber. A confirmed diffusion design like a QRD with adequate spacing would be ideal though.

Bare Wall

Here is a good resource to help calculate how to construct a QRD if your interested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

I didn't notice your rear wall treatment earlier. Apart from what Nick said, which seems to be pointing in the right direction, it would be more effective to diffuse with vertical elements. Horizontal slats like this will redirect sound into the floor and ceiling. This thread follows someone on a similar path, and I think leads to useful conclusions for you.

Hey guys, thanks for the help.

Like I said.. just winging it at this point. I knew somebody would point me towards how to actually do it effectively, even if it was possible.

Depth is about 6", and the distance to the money seat is ~6 feet; further to the front row. Bottom half is solid as shown. Original thoughts for top half was 3-1/2" safe'n'sound spaced off the wall. Other thoughts were 5-1/2" deep pink fluffy.

I have seen poly over pink fluffy on the back wall, or 703 with the FSK on the outside. Since I need to make up the 1/2" on the top half, I was tossing the completely random and uneducated thought of the strips out for some feedback.

I did see the QRDude software, but it also indicates well depth. Since I'm not going to be dealing with well depth, is there a way to use the program to determine slat width and spacing? Is it even worth attempting? It is a bit of work, I don't want to expend the time and energy for something that really won't produce much benefit over 6mil poly. If I had to do it vertically it would be substantially more work and I fear not worth the effort.

I'll read those links tonight, thanks again.

Tim
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post #204 of 597 Old 02-06-2013, 07:51 AM
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I completely missed your question about the back wall as well. I think the concern with "randomly" spacing elements as you've done is that while they may appear random, they actually are not, and will "color" the sound rather than providing uniform diffusion.

Also, IIRC, the pink fluffy on the back wall with poly on top is to provide LF absorption with the insulation while reflecting the higher frequency stuff to keep your room from sounding too dead. It's a delicate balancing act providing just enough absorption without making the room sound too dead.

And finally smile.gif, My understanding is that deeper absorbers benefit more from loose fill (like pink fluffy) while shallower absorbers are better suited to using a rigid fiberglass panel like the OC you've mentioned. If you have nearly 6" of space, I think that would put you in the pink fluffy region smile.gif

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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post #205 of 597 Old 02-06-2013, 07:53 AM
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I wouldn't say you have to do it vertically, but to realize the benefits of diffusion, it should be done vertically.

I couldn't find a calculator, right off, but I'm sure there is one. Slat depth and spacing will relate to upper and lower limits for frequency of diffusion. The vertical slats will diffuse and redirect energy in the horizontal plane, which is good because you ears/brain know what to do with sound from these directions - it's perceived as ambiance and spaciousness, enhancing the feeling of being in a larger acoustic space. If the sound is redirected to the ceiling and floor, you lose that benefit. If you want to decrease the gain of the reflection off the rear wall, you've accomplished that, but no more.
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post #206 of 597 Old 02-06-2013, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I found a calculator for a Helmholtz slat diffuser, check it out at http://www.mh-audio.nl

Tim
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post #207 of 597 Old 02-07-2013, 05:17 PM
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Tim, I didn't get to look at that calculator until just now. I need to caution you that it's not what I was talking about. The Helmholtz resonator they are describing here is meant for absorption, not diffusion.

Here is more what I was thinking. http://www.gearslutz.com/board/6976716-post31.html

Now a caveat: Absorption is ubiquitous. Any diffuser or reflector and whatever will always absorb some frequencies to some degree. The helmholtz slat resonator is designed to absorb, but will also reflect some at high frequencies, and will scatter at a few very narrow frequency ranges. The binary amplitude diffuser that user boggy posted about at gearslutz (especially with the detail in the second link he provided: this one

Of course, we have no measurements of the acoustics in your room, so we have no reliable way to determine which, if either of these devices is most appropriate. And then again, you may not be interested in reconstructing what you've built at all. but now you've found the resources to worry needlessly about what you may have inadvertently done to the acoustics of your room.

Fred
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post #208 of 597 Old 02-08-2013, 03:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Fred. I saw that my calculator was also calling for the space to be sealed (which it is not), so I didn't think that was the right one.

The link you furnished looks like things might be easier than I thought. If I understand correctly, the strips and the slats are the same dimension throughout (except when there are multiple slats/strips adjacent to each other), and the strips can be any easy to find lumber.

I could place 3 strips horizontally on the framed wall, then build vertical strips into the fabric frame. Then I would actually get some benefit over some of the typical back wall methods.

Thanks again!

Tim
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post #209 of 597 Old 02-08-2013, 06:23 AM
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I believe we should start a petition to change his name from "Hopeful" to "Helpful" biggrin.gif

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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post #210 of 597 Old 02-08-2013, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

I believe we should start a petition to change his name from "Hopeful" to "Helpful" biggrin.gif


I concur biggrin.gif
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