Getting warm in my theater room, options to pull out hot air? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 107 Old 10-28-2014, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
OK. I am thinking about stepping things up a little. I am going to "finally" put in a real air return in the theater so that in the summer, when I have the 2 A/C vents open, I am getting a nice air pull out of the room. That is fine.

Now, I am thinking that before winter sets in, I should do something to pull cold Iowa winter air in from outside.

I've been looking at a number of inline fans. Anything from about $80 - $160, but the more I look, the more expensive the project gets.

I started with a 4", but then was lead to believe that I should get a 6" and then just dial it down. Then all of these tests I see online are at full velocity, and sound like jet engines...

My room is pretty soundproof right now with decoupled walls/ceiling, DD+GG, etc. I don't want to throw that all away with a loud inline fan.

I *might* be able to place the fan in a space outside of the theater, but it would still be in a main living space inside a "to be built" soffit, but if it is noisy in the theater, it will be even noisier out there.

Some things I've figured out already are to get an outside vent cap without flappers (since they are designed to NOT let outside air in), with some extra layers of a more fine mesh to keep bugs out. Then I would use a back draft damper to block air flow somewhat when the fan is off. Flexible insulated duct of course with some bends to reduce the fan noise in the theater, and then a regular vent in the theater that matches the existing HVAC vents. However, I have no idea if 4" is enough, or if I have to go to a 6", and which ones will be the most quiet and still move a bunch of air.

Theater is about 2,600 cuft. I think that I read that I should be moving 2.5 times the air in the room an hour, meaning 6,500 cuft an hour or just over 108 CFM, which isn't a LOT of air for these inline fans.

The first step is to get this started and maybe done before winter is fully upon us, and then before I really use it, work on the return as well as a potential exhaust to outside (winter, cycle outside air in to the front of the theater and exhaust back outdoors in the back. Summer, just use the HVAC cooling vents already in the front and a too be connected return in the rear of the theater.) 2 systems depending on the type of year. No $1500 dual split with a bulky box in the room. (not criticizing anyone that went that route)

So anyone have any recommended inline fan brand/model and size? Some of the "can fan" styles seem more conducive to hiding in a soffit than the ones that are really big in the "mid section."
That is pretty much what I just added to my similar sized basement ht. Originally, there was just one supply and no cool air return. I leave closed in the winter months since I do not want to pump heat into the room. Right now the room starts about 69 degrees. In the middle of winter it will be 65ish in the room.

In the winter, 8-10 adults, the room does not heat up that much. low 70's at the end of a 2 hour+ movie but the air is not as fresh as it should be. Now, after adding a Fantech fg6xl to push and one to pull, there is a good supply of fresh air coming in from a storage area adjacent to the theater that has vents to the outside. The return is in the back near the pj so hopefully is a little more direct at grabbing the pj exhaust and then pulling to the deadvent in a closet and then venting to the garage that is next to the theater.

The dead vents are outside the theater and I am very happy that the fan noise is not intrusive. One 6" supply going from the deadvent to where the grills are where it "T's" for two 6" ports into the theater.

These 390cfm fans are rated at 79db (IIRC) at full. The point I am trying to get to is my return area I had lots of room to "t" the 6" supply into a manifold at the return grill. The front of the room I did not have this kind of room as I had to access the room through an existing soffit. I was able to get two supplies off the main feeder but is so cramped that one of the supplies gets more air than the other so now port noise is the culprit and not fan noise. At full the return is audible, but not intrusive. At full, the supply is more intrusive. OK for a football game but not for a movie. The point is, try to set up your "T" supply to the manifold as uniform as possible to better distribute the air flow. I may go back in to the soffit to improve this but right now I am just enjoying the air flow at half, and happy with the lack of fan noise.

The Maestro fan remote I use has full on and next step down cuts the fan in half and then smaller increments down from there. At half there is no audible impact on the room, at supply and return, but a good supply of air is still coming and going.

Here is a sketchup of the room.

Gray space at the front of the room is improved storage area with fresh air grills
Brown area is 4' high crawl space
Green is closet area
Orange is garage


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post #92 of 107 Old 10-28-2014, 02:23 PM
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[quote=corekneelius;28601761]
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Originally Posted by prophets92sho View Post

Thanks for the info. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Now I just need to figure out how to make it look good!
Keep in mind prototype first as to get the most out of it performance wise...good air flow, no heat soak and not to many extreme bends to slow or choke things up...and then go for sleek and pretty.

If I was going for ceiling mounted I would just built a box use screen on side that has intake and that would hide all the tubing connecting to projector.

I have never found a projector hanging out of the ceiling attractive on any amount of money theater room.

I may still alter mine, as my double garage is right behind my theater room and my projector is a few feet from it...would keep garage warm for the dogs on cold nights and one stall is barred up and I keep the garage door open most of the time for air flow, something that came with the house.

But I first had to see if it worked, it was super nice having a cool room that is for sure and in long run my projector lamp will most likely last longer.

Good luck with yours, keep us posted.

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post #93 of 107 Old 10-29-2014, 01:16 PM
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I am rerouting my exhaust set-up to the rear wall and exhaust to the garage a foot from garage door and I'll install thermal cover for when not in use to keep dust out and insulate when not in use.

Benefits:
Much cleaner interior look.
Much shorter exhaust flex hose for improved performance.
And the dual option of storing the heat with garage door shut or open for flow.

I checked the projector temp at start up is about 35 or 36 and normal operating temps at 45 with this set-up temps outside are in the 70's and not running air conditioner.

It has been a weird feeling waiting for temps to come up in the room and they never do...I will get used to it.

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post #94 of 107 Old 10-30-2014, 01:22 PM
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The new set-up.






The exposed portion of the flex hosing has been wrapped with matching carpet.



At this short distance, it doesn't even require a fan on the end, but it is installed.

Projector temps staying pretty steady at 45 and outside temps here in Texas in low 90s.

Optoma HD80 projector.

Back-up projector Optoma H77.

120" Vapex fixed Screen.

Denon 2309ci 7.1 AV receiver.

Sony PS3.

Center channel:  Klipsch Heresy.

Front L/R: Klipsch Heresy.

Subwoofers: B&W AWS 650 and NHT Supersub.

Rear Surround L/R: Klipsch RS3.

Side Surround L/R: Klipsch KSC-C1.


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post #95 of 107 Old 10-30-2014, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prophets92sho View Post
The new set-up.






The exposed portion of the flex hosing has been wrapped with matching carpet.



At this short distance, it doesn't even require a fan on the end, but it is installed.

Projector temps staying pretty steady at 45.
This seems like an awesome idea, but is your projector on the ground? I imagine most of us will have them on a shelf or ceiling so I'm trying to figure out how to hide the duct. Unless I just do a straight run up into the ceiling and through the joists.
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post #96 of 107 Old 10-30-2014, 04:52 PM
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This seems like an awesome idea, but is your projector on the ground? I imagine most of us will have them on a shelf or ceiling so I'm trying to figure out how to hide the duct. Unless I just do a straight run up into the ceiling and through the joists.
It's a few inches off the ground hidden under my rear seating riser.

I originally thought of this as I was thinking of ceiling mounting my Optoma h77 as that thing is a freaking heater, I would have used an elbow off the exhaust and gone straight up through ceiling and exhaust out the roof.

You can enclose the projector in decorative box on the ceiling hiding the projector and ducting and allowing a venting portion for intake and walla done.

Optoma HD80 projector.

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Sony PS3.

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post #97 of 107 Old 10-30-2014, 05:23 PM
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Great idea!! I have similar issues in my theater with a shelf mounted PJ. If I channeled the exhaust above the ceiling, would I need a fan to expedite the heat, or would physics take the hot air out and let it rise into the dead space above my theater?

"There's a lot of badness in the world, Danny"
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post #98 of 107 Old 10-30-2014, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
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So after a lot of research around my theater area, I have found out that I can put an air return in the back of the theater pretty easily for the summer months, and for the upcoming winter, I bought a Panasonic FV-20NLF1 inline fan that will go into a special soffit behind my front screen wall and suck air from outside into the theater.

(Fresh air vent --> back draft damper --> insulated 6" flex duct --> FV-20NLF1 fan --> insulated flex duct --> duct boot --> theater)

I think that the fan is too big to fit into anything existing that I have, so I will build a front wall soffit and make it like my other sound proof soffits, but with an access/maintenance door. Then I will cut a hole for the duct to go up into the ceiling to get out to the fresh air, and then direct the other end after the fan into the existing soffits to get it on the other side of the screen wall (no need in making my false wall an air filter.

Which brings me to 2 questions.

1) Any economical ways to do a light filter of the air coming in? Just something to prevent tiny bugs or dust. I was thinking about making my own filters out of a layer of a nylon material (similar to cotton batting but not organic) and some sort of plastic mesh "cage" (like chicken wire, but plastic to eliminate rust) to keep it in shape and attaching it just before the fan sucks in the air into its "innards." It would be small and cheap. The outside air will come from the side of the house where there is about 60 feet to the next house and I live in Iowa where the air is always "fresh" :-), so I don't want to mess with carbon filters and such.
2) Does anyone know what type of fan speed switch works with these? I am anticipating that this is going to blast so much air that I will want to be able to dial it down, and inline fans seem to be finicky about speed controllers.

I know that I will need to power a vent to get the warm air to outside the house, but I wanted to get one FV-20NLF1 fan first to see how it fits, and what speed is required as I am not sure how much room I will have in the back of the theater to put a fan and if the 20NLF1 is more than powerful enough, then to suck air out, I might got with a 10NLF1 (max of 120CFM and 1.0 sones) at full speed since it is quieter at full speed already and its output is about 1/2 of the 20NFL1 (max of 240CFM and 1.4 sones)

I figure that worse case, even if I end up with more air coming "in" that if I really need to cool the space down, I can open the door a little to the theater, and let some of the excess air create positive air pressure in the house, although for an entire house, I doubt that it will be an issue at all.

So I am getting closer to my summer setup and winter setup getting started. Obviously I want to work on the winter one first, but the air return for summer is going into the same "hole" above the equipment rack as the fan exhaust setup for the winter, and I only want to tear that all down once.

For people wondering what the Panasonic FV-20NLF looks like, it is this:

Last edited by nickbuol; 10-30-2014 at 07:41 PM.
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post #99 of 107 Old 10-30-2014, 08:12 PM
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Great idea!! I have similar issues in my theater with a shelf mounted PJ. If I channeled the exhaust above the ceiling, would I need a fan to expedite the heat, or would physics take the hot air out and let it rise into the dead space above my theater?
What is behind the the shelf wall? and on my setup on five foot distance i really don't even need a fan at the end there is more than enough pressure pushing air out.

If I was going to go up.

I would exhaust the hot air out the roof onto a whirlybird, if you have access to the internal projector temperatures you will be able to tell if you need to add a fan, and they have these fans built into these flex hoses I just don't remember where I saw them I found them when searching for whole house attic fans.

I would avoid exhaust the hot air into the attic, just a little more work to get to roof but well worth it.

Sorry Nick for hogging up your thread I started a separate thread,

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post #100 of 107 Old 10-31-2014, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post
1) Any economical ways to do a light filter of the air coming in? Just something to prevent tiny bugs or dust. I was thinking about making my own filters out of a layer of a nylon material (similar to cotton batting but not organic) and some sort of plastic mesh "cage" (like chicken wire, but plastic to eliminate rust) to keep it in shape and attaching it just before the fan sucks in the air into its "innards." It would be small and cheap. The outside air will come from the side of the house where there is about 60 feet to the next house and I live in Iowa where the air is always "fresh" :-), so I don't want to mess with carbon filters and such.
Not sure if this fits your definition of economical but I use one of these to filter air coming into the theater. Due to large surface area, it doesn't restrict air flow much.

http://www.amazon.com/Fantech-FB6-In...ds=fantech+fb6
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post #101 of 107 Old 10-31-2014, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by twells View Post
Not sure if this fits your definition of economical but I use one of these to filter air coming into the theater. Due to large surface area, it doesn't restrict air flow much.

www.amazon.com/Fantech-FB6-In-Line-Filter-MERV12/dp/B001NFV2OE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1414758756&sr=8-2&keywords=fantech+fb6
Thanks for that. It is amazing the price for a metal box with two round 6" adapters, a removable side panel, and a filter costs.

Gives me a good idea for a DIY version. Of course, researching any of this stuff takes you to web sites for growing your own wacky tabacky, so I don't want to do it at work and get flagged, even over lunch, for going to a cannabis growing web site.
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post #102 of 107 Old 10-31-2014, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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So this is the design of the Fantech FB6:


I basically bought the parts to make a box like this. A piece of rectangular duct, two ends, two 6" collars, a filter, plus materials to make the front maintenance panel is on a hinge and has a gasket seal, plus latches to hold things in place. Price for absolutely everything, including bolts for the hinge... with tax.... $34

Filter is a 10" by 20" so lots of space for airflow to prevent flow reduction.
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Getting warm in my theater room, options to pull out hot air?

Nice... Sounds like that will work well. Always satisfying to make something better for 1/3 the cost!
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post #104 of 107 Old 10-31-2014, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice... Sounds like that will work well. Always satisfying to make something better for 1/3 the cost!
Exactly. Thanks for the link to the paid product though. Without that and the simple diagram of what it is, I would still be scratching my head on how to best make this. I wish that it wasn't going to end up at about 25" long, but that is OK.
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post #105 of 107 Old 10-31-2014, 05:41 PM
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I used screen door screening and then have a separate slot that I built outside the deadvent to hold the filter. 12"x12" and I cut the filter to fit and easy to change when needed.

For fan control I used the Lutron Maestro ir fan controller. Added to my Harmony IR and can turn on the fans and adjust speed from my seat. Works well with Fantech fans. IIRC, some fans it was hit and miss how well it worked without extra hum?

Fan control model was MIR-FQ4FM_BL with an extra fan controller (CM-FQ1) for the second fan.

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post #106 of 107 Old 11-01-2014, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I wonder if the the MIR-FQ4FM-BL using a different remote control code as the MIR-600T-BL that I have for lighting control.

If so, then that would be great. I could control everything from my seat, like you mention. I just wouldn't want the lights to go up when I turn on the fans. LOL

Google isn't very helpful in that aspect in finding out. At least not with my searching that I've tried.

Time to contact Lutron.

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post #107 of 107 Old 11-03-2014, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Thanks. I wonder if the the MIR-FQ4FM-BL using a different remote control code as the MIR-600T-BL that I have for lighting control.

If so, then that would be great. I could control everything from my seat, like you mention. I just wouldn't want the lights to go up when I turn on the fans. LOL

Google isn't very helpful in that aspect in finding out. At least not with my searching that I've tried.

Time to contact Lutron.
FYI. Lutron support got back to me and basically they said that their fan controller, MIR-FQ4FM, uses a IR different frequency as the MIR-600T for controlling lights. So this will be perfect for me. I will add a MIR-FQ4FM for fan control when the time comes.

I did, by the way, punch some 6" holes in my house today. One for the incoming cold winter air to be pulled in my the Panasonic FV-20NLF1 fan that arrived today. The other for my new "fresh air" run for my furnace/water heater so that I can use the current run as a true air return for summer months. That means that I can work on the *inside* of the house while the temperatures really cool down outside instead of trying to work in 35F temps like we are supposed to get in a few days.

It is going to be a messy journey.
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