Need help with black ceiling (gah!) - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 23 Old 09-24-2012, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Mazeroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I primered my ceiling drywall with the darkest tint Sherwin Williams could put in their drywall primer (to a P5 level). I also did my walls with a P4 primer as my wall paint isn’t extra dark but it is dark. I had them mix up their deep base flat to their Tricorn Black (LRV 2) paint, the blackest black they have. I cut the room and applied the first coat of black with a 3/8” Purdy White Dove roller. Coverage was awesome. Up close, I got 99.99% coverage and if looking up at the ceiling without direct light it’s DARK and FLAT. With a light shining up or the projector on you can see the reflection and where I overlapped the roller. Ok, we definitely need another coat. I let that coat dry and put another one on the next day.

It looks better, but I’m still seeing where I’ve overlapped, even though I’m moving crazy fast. My method is load the roller up heavy then make about a 5’ long, straight pass in the center of a three pass untouched section. I then roll the next pass to the right, hit the center again to load the roller back up, and then hit the left side. I then make very quick passes with very little pressure moving a few inches over at a time, back and forth. I probably make 15 total passes in a 27” wide area (9” roller) and the coverage is great. I’m getting no roller marks on my left to right passes after it’s dry, but where I’ve overlapped an inch or two with a section I painted 10 minutes earlier it’s darker when light is reflecting off it. The room is a small 11.5 x 17 so I can move quick. It’s much better than it was with my first coat, and I doubt many people would even notice it, but being anal it’s bothering me. I’ve painted our whole house and just did the other room in the basement and the method I use turns out perfect. It looks professional. With this flat black, maybe it’s not the best way. I used the search and went through a good 40-50 threads of painting the ceiling and really didn’t get a good answer. The best I could find was this (post 13):

http://www.avsforum.com/t/471278/painting-the-ceiling#post_4677230

Which is pretty much what I’m doing. Is chasing a perfect black ceiling impossible? Will doing one or two more coats fix it? The light reflecting off the screen and hitting my walls, which are a medium gray, is lighting up the room a lot more than the dark paint I picked. I wonder if that will help once it’s painted, or is most of the light hitting the ceiling complements of direct reflection from the screen? It is a temporary white hardboard so maybe it’s reflecting more than the acoustically transparent screen I”ll have in the end?

Any help is greatly appreciated!
Mazeroth is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 Old 09-24-2012, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Mazeroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I was talking with my Dad a few minutes ago and he asked if I wanted to try his Graco X7 airless sprayer to get a better finish on the ceiling. Hmmm, not a bad idea. He and I used it a few months ago to paint his 28x40 2 story pole barn and it worked very well. We weren't concerned about getting a super fine, even spray but it did do exactly what we wanted. A quick way to paint with a very good finish.

Would something like this allow me to get a very consistent finish on my ceiling? Having used it on the barn I bet I could spray a coat on in about 5 minutes flat. I'm just not sure how well I'll be able to control it overlapping. Maybe just a quick fine coat to hide the double rolled parts that are showing now? Or, a quick way to get a coat on there that I could hit with a roller quickly to even out. Maybe even have my brother come over and help.

Thanks.
Mazeroth is offline  
post #3 of 23 Old 09-24-2012, 08:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Holiday121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Funny I used the exact kind of paint. I had to do 3 coats on the ceiling after priming.. I do not have a projector in the room yet but it looks fine in normal light.. When I threw a florescent on it watch out lol
Holiday121 is offline  
post #4 of 23 Old 09-24-2012, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Mazeroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
The paint they recommended was the HGTV brand, because it comes in an ultra deep base. I told them I don't mind paying big bucks if it's going to get me the finish I want and they were pretty confident it would. The manager there has been there as long as I can remember and he tends to know his stuff so I trusted him.

Why did you go for three coats, if you don't mind me asking? One looked great for me but I did notice a little overlap. After the second it looked fabulous, but once the projector came on my crazy eyes kept looking up at the ceiling and seeing the minute overlapping that no one or their brother would notice, but me, or you other fine AVSers!

Here's a few shots of the ceiling. The projector is feeding an all white shot to the screen to maximize the ceiling reflection. It will never be this bad, in practice, but worst case nonetheless:





Also, I found something cool. I tilted the projector (Epson 8350) up to the ceiling and the light it reflected back was green. I always though black absorbed all colors evenly but apparently not. Pretty cool! Or does this mean crappy paint? wink.gif

Mazeroth is offline  
post #5 of 23 Old 09-24-2012, 08:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Holiday121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 35
My Girl works for Sherwin Headquarters. So I get all the paint I want ... HGTV is just pushed for marketing. I cannot gie you a example of what it looks like because I do not have a screen or projector yet. I ordered a 2013 model and wont be here until the end of the year. I could if you want go take some pics of the black though
Holiday121 is offline  
post #6 of 23 Old 09-24-2012, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Mazeroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
"When I threw a florescent on it watch out lol" Are you saying once you really get some light on it that you can see the imperfections that I'm experiencing? If you have some time, sure, throw up some shots.

Which kind of paint did you end up using from Sherwin Williams? I'm also wondering if the flat HGTV stuff isn't as flat as the better paints? I know it's a stretch, but it's all I got! biggrin.gif
Mazeroth is offline  
post #7 of 23 Old 09-24-2012, 09:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Holiday121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Let me go take some pics brb
Holiday121 is offline  
post #8 of 23 Old 09-24-2012, 09:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Holiday121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 35
I just took the pics with my Iphone its kinda hard to tell honestly.



Holiday121 is offline  
post #9 of 23 Old 09-24-2012, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Mazeroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Thanks. It is hard to see but I do think I can make out a little of what I'm experiencing. My wife thinks I'm crazy. I told her, "I AM crazy."

tongue.gif
Mazeroth is offline  
post #10 of 23 Old 09-24-2012, 10:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Holiday121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 35
I never owned a projector so I am not sure how its going to look when the light comes off the screen
Holiday121 is offline  
post #11 of 23 Old 09-25-2012, 05:01 AM
HOME THEATER CONTRACTOR
 
BIGmouthinDC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 20,517
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 535
Just a note on spraying the ceiling black. I had a project where the client after much research found some Roscoe flat black. Indeed it was a good paint. He sprayed his ceiling, and a fine mist/dust settled over the room. I fought that dust of 10 days and still found some when we assembled his white screen.
BIGmouthinDC is offline  
post #12 of 23 Old 09-25-2012, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Mazeroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Oh yeah, we had tons of dust after spraying the barn, mainly on our arms and clothing. Very fine dust, too. How did his ceiling turn out? Think that's the route to go, or use it quickly and roll it almost immediately very fast?
Mazeroth is offline  
post #13 of 23 Old 09-25-2012, 07:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AirBenji's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 1,366
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Forum member Michelmia and I both used the Rosco Supersaturated Velour Black that Big referenced above. (I believe the color code is #6003.) Michelmia's was sprayed on and mine was rolled on. I have seen both ceilings and his looks genuinely amazing. (I don't know about the dust/mist though...you can certainly ask him about that.)

I'm also 99.5% happy with mine. However, I did two coats and if you turn the lights on to 100% and look really closely at the ceiling, you can faintly detect a roller mark here and there.

The Rosco paint isn't cheap, but I think it's hard to beat. However, note that it will show marks every time you touch it...and they're not particularly easy to remove.

The Esquire Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1289590
AirBenji is offline  
post #14 of 23 Old 09-25-2012, 06:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Holiday121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Do all screens have the same reflection coming off besides the black diamond?
Holiday121 is offline  
post #15 of 23 Old 09-26-2012, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Mazeroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 688
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
So I decided to give the ceiling one last coat with the paint that I had left to use it all up. It's crazy how much better it looks with three coats compared to two. Roller marks are pretty much nonexistent now so I'm going to call the ceiling finished. Now for the awesome part...

The ceiling's last coat has had 24 hours to dry. It's dry. I can't cut a room in with a brush to save my life and always use blue tape and the lines are razor sharp. I just bought some Frog tape to try out and it won't stick to the flat black. It peels right off. I then tried the Scotch blue tape and it sticks a few seconds longer and peels off as well. Can you not use painter's tape on flat paint or does this stuff need more time to cure? The Frog tape says for optimal performance don't use it on paint that's less than 3 days cured. I've used the blue tape in the past (like last week) on one day dried paint and it sticks perfectly fine.
Mazeroth is offline  
post #16 of 23 Old 09-27-2012, 02:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Holiday121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Hmmm I am not sure on that I will have to ask the old lady. Her brother is a pro painter for Sherwin Williams as well. But When I did mine I cut without tape. Depending on drywal job etc etc will come into play and the two colors you are using to but up against each other. The third coat makes it look real good. Only time I see any flaws is when I put a florescent light on it. Then you can really see all the bad things.

I am not sure how it will look with just a projector in the room because like I said I have never owned one. Keep me posted
Holiday121 is offline  
post #17 of 23 Old 09-27-2012, 05:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Willie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The Bay - Green Bay, WI
Posts: 1,234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Did you just refer to a woman as the old lady? Really? Wow.
Willie is offline  
post #18 of 23 Old 09-27-2012, 07:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Holiday121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Ya lol sad part is she is younger then me 28 haha
Holiday121 is offline  
post #19 of 23 Old 10-11-2012, 12:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Vaggeto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 2,482
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

I just took the pics with my Iphone its kinda hard to tell honestly.


Do those pictures represent the wall color well... if so, what color is that? I'm really tempted!

Go Broncos!
Vaggeto is offline  
post #20 of 23 Old 10-11-2012, 01:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tlogan6797's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 4,834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
I just bought some Frog tape to try out and it won't stick to the flat black. It peels right off.

I was not impreseed with the Frog Tape either. I repainted the kitchen, eat-in kitchen area, family room and entry way (basically one big ceiling) and couldn't see myself cutting in THAT much with a brush. So I thought I'd try the Frog Tape. I some stretches, it woked great, just like as advertised. In others, it was just as bad as regular blue tape. So I tried to reapply the FT in some areas in order to touch up and it simply would not stick. 3M now makes a similar tape and I tried that. It stuck only slighly better. I think I'll be touching up with a brush.

Tom Logan
Everytime I reply the thread ends
Need motivation? Get LOGANED
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1014847

An as-yet un-named theater designed by Big-WarrenP-BritInVA
tlogan6797 is offline  
post #21 of 23 Old 10-11-2012, 05:50 PM
Member
 
jayHRC51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Chicago - Northwest burbs
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You might try Latex XTender or Floetrol.

Reasons you might need it. 1.Newer Low VOC paint formulations have reduced open time and flowability which need some help to make them easier to apply. 2. Environmental conditions like high temperatures cause problems with open time. 3. You want a super smooth finish when working with paints like SW Pro Classic.

Looks and sounds like your having some issues with blending a wet edge, latex XTender will help with that. Also, as a rule, don't use paint marketed as "paint and primer in one", it sucks. I know you didn't use that stuff on this project, just a friendly forewarning.
jayHRC51 is offline  
post #22 of 23 Old 10-12-2012, 06:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Pain Infliction's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 2,564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayHRC51 View Post

You might try Latex XTender or Floetrol.
Reasons you might need it. 1.Newer Low VOC paint formulations have reduced open time and flowability which need some help to make them easier to apply. 2. Environmental conditions like high temperatures cause problems with open time. 3. You want a super smooth finish when working with paints like SW Pro Classic.
Looks and sounds like your having some issues with blending a wet edge, latex XTender will help with that. Also, as a rule, don't use paint marketed as "paint and primer in one", it sucks. I know you didn't use that stuff on this project, just a friendly forewarning.

What about Benjamine Moore Aura paint? I thought that was some of the best pain to use and it has a primer in it?

MY THEATER......The Thompson Theater 11.9 channels

"Is not love not unlike the unlikely not it is unlikened to?"
- Leon Phelps
Pain Infliction is offline  
post #23 of 23 Old 10-13-2012, 05:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mr.Tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 2,045
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Sounds like you might have roller marks. When you load up the roller with paint you will get paint trailing off the ends of the roller.

It also sounds like you spent a lot of time trying to even out the paint. Instead of loading up and doing a single pass down the middle, try a moderate amount of paint applied in a 'W' pattern. Then spread the paint from there. I think the method you are currently using will put the majority of paint in the center, no matter how many times you go over it.

You are definitely putting the effort into the job, I think a few changes in technique will help.

HTH,
Tim
Mr.Tim is offline  
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off