AV Texan Theater Build - Design Phase - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 09-29-2012, 11:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Well after much planning, reading, & hair pulling I am ready to start my HT!! I have attached some sketches of my thoughts so far (pretty rough, sorry). I would love any feedback that anyone has on the design or suggestions for improvement.

The space is over my garage. The dimensions are 21 x 13.5 x 9. The ceiling will be punched up to 11’ in the center. The usage will be 70% HT, 20% music, 10% gaming. The construction will be DD+GG over clips and channels. I want 2 rows of 3 with a bar in the back for over flow during larger events. The bar stools will stay in the game room until needed.

AV Texan Home Theater Design Ideas.pdf 214k .pdf file I have my equipment list down to the final 2 in most categories.
PJ: Runco LS-5 or LS-10
120” wide 2:40:1 AT screen: Semour or SMX
Pre/Pro: Anthem avm50v, NAD T-187, Mac MX-121
Amps (Already Own): B&K Ref 200x7 8 200x2
Speakers: (3) Triad Golds IW for fronts, (2 or 4)Triad Gold/4 Omni IW for sides, (2) Triad Gold/8 omni SE IC for rears
Subs (2): Paradigm Sub 12, Sub 15 or JL Audio f113
Blue Ray: Oppo BDP-93
Lighting (Already Own): Lutron HW 8 with 4 open zones

Thanks in advance for any thoughts. Everyone on the forum has been very helpful in helping me get to this point. The fun has just begun!
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post #2 of 31 Old 09-29-2012, 01:11 PM
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Your dimensions and layout are very similar to mine. I have two sets of columns on the side, which each hold a side-surround speaker for each row. They're placed at-or-slightly-behind the listener on each row...

If you're picking one of those Runco projectors, are you going to get the CineWide model for CIH?

Jeff

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post #3 of 31 Old 09-29-2012, 02:15 PM
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Overall looks pretty solid. Have you worried with keeping that Texas upstairs cool?
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post #4 of 31 Old 09-29-2012, 02:38 PM
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2 rows of seats (assuming recliners) with a bar in the back will probably be too tight. Figure 6.5 feet for each row of recliners.
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post #5 of 31 Old 09-29-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBon View Post

2 rows of seats (assuming recliners) with a bar in the back will probably be too tight. Figure 6.5 feet for each row of recliners.

I agree. My room is 19' deep and I'd need more than an extra 2' to fit a bar in the back. Non-reclining seats would allow you to tighten everything up, possibly creating enough room for a 3rd row bar.
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post #6 of 31 Old 09-29-2012, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

Overall looks pretty solid. Have you worried with keeping that Texas upstairs cool?

If not, he certainly should be!
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Originally Posted by LeBon View Post

2 rows of seats (assuming recliners) with a bar in the back will probably be too tight. Figure 6.5 feet for each row of recliners.

Depends on how much of that space he's going to consume with the AT screen, I fit 3 rows into 22', but without an AT screen, and the middle recliner row is 5'6". Doing it over another 2' of depth would be better... A foot less, with in-walls behind the screen, he might be able to squeeze in by pushing the front row forward. But yes, definitely on the tight side, real close to the edge if not over.

Jeff

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
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post #7 of 31 Old 09-29-2012, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

Your dimensions and layout are very similar to mine. I have two sets of columns on the side, which each hold a side-surround speaker for each row. They're placed at-or-slightly-behind the listener on each row...
If you're picking one of those Runco projectors, are you going to get the CineWide model for CIH?
Jeff

I have an extra 2 channels of power so I have thought of doing 2 sets of sides. Are you using direct or dipole?

I will us the CineWide but not sure if I will use fixed lens or AutoScope. Any experience here?

The Moving Pictures Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1462881/th...ruction-thread

Houston GTG - Summer 2014
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post26079610
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post #8 of 31 Old 09-29-2012, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

Overall looks pretty solid. Have you worried with keeping that Texas upstairs cool?

We have a dedicated AC unit for the upstairs. I will have my HVAC guys help with making sure I have the correct volume but with velocity below 250 fpm.

The Moving Pictures Theater Construction Thread:
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post #9 of 31 Old 09-29-2012, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBon View Post

2 rows of seats (assuming recliners) with a bar in the back will probably be too tight. Figure 6.5 feet for each row of recliners.

I am looking at the Palliser Pacifico seats. They are 67" reclined. I am using 72" in my sketch. Do I need more room than that?
I know the back of the room would be tight but I won't use those seats very much and they will be pushed under the bar except for Superbowl etc.

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post #10 of 31 Old 09-29-2012, 08:50 PM
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Now I am confused. I guess I need to see a drawing, so I can understand how pushing the seats under the bar save you space.
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post #11 of 31 Old 09-29-2012, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

We have a dedicated AC unit for the upstairs. I will have my HVAC guys help with making sure I have the correct volume but with velocity below 250 fpm.

You'll want a return in that room, and it was most likely sized for a bedroom load, not a bunch of people crammed in.
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Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I have an extra 2 channels of power so I have thought of doing 2 sets of sides. Are you using direct or dipole?

Bipoles from Definitive.
Quote:
I will us the CineWide but not sure if I will use fixed lens or AutoScope. Any experience here?

I'm using a sled so effectively the same functionality as AutoScope.

What part of Texas?

Jeff

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
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post #12 of 31 Old 09-29-2012, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

What part of Texas?
Jeff

I am in the Clear Lake Area. How about yourself?

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post #13 of 31 Old 09-30-2012, 09:29 AM
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I am in the Clear Lake Area. How about yourself?

Cypress.

Good! We needed another one on the South side to complete our "planned" circle tour of Houston theaters someday...

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
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post #14 of 31 Old 09-30-2012, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
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So if I put more room between row 1 and row 2 that will put the 1st row eyes to screen at 8". Is that to close? If I use the 120" wide 2:40:1 thats a viewing angle of row 1 = 64 degree and row 2 = 38 degree.

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post #15 of 31 Old 10-01-2012, 08:43 AM
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That's pretty close. Not only do you run the risk of seeing the weave in the screen, you're liable to lose your lunch on your nice new carpet.

I settled on 9-1/2' back from a 115" wide 2.35:1. I've also been 10' back from a 125" wide 2.35:1. I wouldn't want to be any closer. Of course, some people like to sit close, but I can't recall many sitting in the 8' range, especially in rooms 21' deep.

My pj isn't hung yet, or I'd invite you over to test out seating distances. I'm sure one of the other helpful locals with a finished theater will extend an invite.wink.gif
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post #16 of 31 Old 10-02-2012, 04:22 AM
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I am working on a project and the room is 23 ft long, During the planning we looked at false wall or third row bar seating, the client opted for the bar, couldn't fit both, I think you need to think about your goals for this room. If three rows is a must you should consider non reclining seats for the second row.
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post #17 of 31 Old 11-07-2012, 12:23 AM - Thread Starter
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AVTexan Home Theater Design.pdf 165k .pdf file

I tightened up the room a bit. The bar is gone and I am going with 2 rows of 3. The seats are further back and the viewing distances are 9.75 and 16.00. That makes the viewing angle on a 120" wide 2:40 54 degrees & 35 degrees. Any other thoughts on the layout?

I am excited to get statrted. The old sheetrock is coming out tomorrow and BPape is working on the acoustics.
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post #18 of 31 Old 11-07-2012, 05:42 AM
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Looks like a good layout. It's hard to follow where the walls are in the back of the room, but it looks like you enter to the left of your rack, snake around the wall that will hold your left rear surround, and then walk behind the riser to enter along the right side of the riser. Is that correct?

A few questions/comments:

1. I'm assuming the pink shaded area is your riser. Since you can't access the left side of the riser from your entry door (without walking all the way around the right side of the riser), I would extend the left side of the riser all the way to the left wall. It will make the back of the room seem bigger. The step off that side of the riser would face the screen.
2. Depending on how your riser height relates to your entry door height, it would be nice to raise up the entire back of the room. In addition to extending the riser on the left side of the room, you could extend the right side to the right wall and the back part of the riser all the way to your entry door. You could then step up outside the entry door. Not sure if that's possible with your headroom.

EDIT: Maybe you are already doing what I just described. I now see what look like steps facing the screen and based on your side elevation, it looks like the pink shaded area might just be a mini riser. Hard to tell with the grid lines. Either way, the people in your blue seats seem really happy, so I'm sure it will be fine.wink.gif
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post #19 of 31 Old 11-07-2012, 06:34 AM
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The screen strikes me as possibly mounted too high for the front row.
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post #20 of 31 Old 11-07-2012, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
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The screen strikes me as possibly mounted too high for the front row.
This was my initial reaction as well. The only improvements to that must be in making the rows closer together, making the front row seats lower (smaller/shorter), or bringing up the riser. None of that looks terribly easy, but maybe I'm overlooking something.
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post #21 of 31 Old 11-07-2012, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post

Looks like a good layout. It's hard to follow where the walls are in the back of the room, but it looks like you enter to the left of your rack, snake around the wall that will hold your left rear surround, and then walk behind the riser to enter along the right side of the riser. Is that correct?

Yes that is correct. Sorry for the design in Excel but its all I got. That wall on the left when you walk in is not supposed to be there. It is for the return for downstairs and I am going to try and move it but am I not verry hopeful. It has been a pain in my butt!!
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EDIT: Maybe you are already doing what I just described. I now see what look like steps facing the screen and based on your side elevation, it looks like the pink shaded area might just be a mini riser.

That is correct the pink area is a mini riser. You come into the room elevated 12". The mini riser makes the second row 18" above the first. When I pull the sheetrock I am going to see if I can make the step outside the room but I do think ceiling height will be a problem.

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post #22 of 31 Old 11-07-2012, 11:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Well there is no turning back now. The sheetrock has been removed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post

The screen strikes me as possibly mounted too high for the front row.
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Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

This was my initial reaction as well. The only improvements to that must be in making the rows closer together, making the front row seats lower (smaller/shorter), or bringing up the riser. None of that looks terribly easy, but maybe I'm overlooking something.

If I pull the bottom of the screen down to 30" from the floor the front seat will have a 20* angle to the top of the screen. Looking straight on the second row would look at the center of the screen slightly downward and the first row would be about 1/4 of the way up from the bottom. My eyes are 40" from the ground.

I would love not to have the extra riser that gets me to 18". If the riser was 12" and I have the bottom of the screen 36" from the floor the front seat will have a 23* angle to the top of the screen.

Thoughts? Whats the ideal & max viewing angle to the top of the screen?

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post #23 of 31 Old 11-08-2012, 04:13 AM
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My concern is the front row's elevated neck angle. It appears to exceed seven degrees which will result in stiff necks.
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post #24 of 31 Old 11-08-2012, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

If I pull the bottom of the screen down to 30" from the floor the front seat will have a 20* angle to the top of the screen.

Lowering it is a good thing. If I remember correctly, the vertical viewing angle should be 15 degrees or less. Since you're scenarios are exceeding 20 degrees, I think you need to make some adjustments.

Quote:
Looking straight on the second row would look at the center of the screen slightly downward and the first row would be about 1/4 of the way up from the bottom. My eyes are 40" from the ground.

Your 40" eye height sounds low to me. What kind of seating are you using that is giving you this number? I'd double check that, and if you find that it's higher, that will also help reduce your vertical viewing angle.

Quote:
I would love not to have the extra riser that gets me to 18". If the riser was 12" and I have the bottom of the screen 36" from the floor the front seat will have a 23* angle to the top of the screen. Thoughts? Whats the ideal & max viewing angle to the top of the screen?

Are you using the riser height calculator? http://calc.xn--f5a.net/ Your seating distances are almost identical to mine and I wound up with the following:
1. Bottom of screen 32" from floor
2. Main riser at 12-3/4" (2x12s + 2 layers of 3/4" ply)
3. 5" mini riser under footprint of back row seats (2x4s + 2 layers of 3/4" ply)
4. Front row eyes fall in the bottom 1/3 of the screen and I have an 18 degree angle to the top of a 115" wide x 48" tall screen.

Bear in mind that these aren't battle-tested numbers. I don't have chairs in the room yet, so I may need to tweak some things if they don't quite work out as they did on paper. That's my plan though.
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post #25 of 31 Old 12-29-2012, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I am ready to start pulling speaker wire and low voltage. I keeping reading cases for and against dipoles and monopoles for side surround. On the left side is if I did 1 set of dipole and the right side is if I did 2 sets of monopoles. Any thoughts which would be better in my set-up? Home Theater Design Ideas - Speaker Placement.pdf 90k .pdf file
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post #26 of 31 Old 12-29-2012, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

I am ready to start pulling speaker wire and low voltage. I keeping reading cases for and against dipoles and monopoles for side surround. On the left side is if I did 1 set of dipole and the right side is if I did 2 sets of monopoles. Any thoughts which would be better in my set-up?

I used two sets of bipole in-walls on my sides, positioned at the end of each row.

Either of those two setups look fine, I've seen suggestions of dipoles (true dipoles, not bipoles) to be positioned where you have them.

Jeff

Rock Creek Theater -- CIH, Panamorph, Martin Logan, SVS PB2000, Carada Masquerade, Grafik Eye, Bar table, Green Glue, JVC RS50 
Theater build photos: http://photobucket.com/autor-ht

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post #27 of 31 Old 12-29-2012, 05:09 PM
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I would stick to monopoles, whether you're using a single set or two sets. However, if you're going to use 3 pairs of surrounds, I would urge you to consider a receiver or pre-pro that can extract Wide channels using DTS Neo:X (e.g., Denon 4520, Marantz 8801, Integra 80.3). Since the Wides are extracted, not generated, they can bridge the gap between your Front and Side speakers. Looking at the graphic of your layout, the Wides can go forward of your front row, the Sides inbetween the rows and the Rear speakers behind the back row. This way, you aren't running the surrounds in dual-mono on each side, but you get smoother pans around the room and great wrap-around envelopment. Are you planning on putting the surround speakers in the columns that appear in your drawing or in the wall between columns?

Sanjay
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post #28 of 31 Old 12-29-2012, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Home Theater Design Ideas - Speaker Placement with Wides.pdf 94k .pdf file
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

I would stick to monopoles, whether you're using a single set or two sets. However, if you're going to use 3 pairs of surrounds, I would urge you to consider a receiver or pre-pro that can extract Wide channels using DTS Neo:X (e.g., Denon 4520, Marantz 8801, Integra 80.3). Since the Wides are extracted, not generated, they can bridge the gap between your Front and Side speakers. Looking at the graphic of your layout, the Wides can go forward of your front row, the Sides inbetween the rows and the Rear speakers behind the back row. This way, you aren't running the surrounds in dual-mono on each side, but you get smoother pans around the room and great wrap-around envelopment. Are you planning on putting the surround speakers in the columns that appear in your drawing or in the wall between columns?

I was planning to put the surrounds in the columns so I did not have to penetrate my Clips+DD+GG shell. But open to sugestions here.

Thanks for the thoughts on the wides. I thought about that but was not sure how to use them. Should they be 55*-60* from the center-line? I am going to use the Marantz 8801 for a pre-pro and I have a spare amp channel.

So in my updated drawing which would be the better choice: the left (wides) or right side (2 mono sides)? OR just a single mono or dipole between the rows.

If I need them in a different place which number lines up with the best spot?
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Houston GTG - Summer 2014
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post #29 of 31 Old 12-30-2012, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post

If I need them in a different place which number lines up with the best spot?
Couple of options, depending on how many columns you want to build:

Columns every 4 feet apart: Wide speakers would be 4 feet forward of main listening position (±55°), Side speakers directly to the sides of listening position (±90°), dummy columns 4 feet behind the Sides, Rear speakers 4 feet behind dummy columns, in the back corners of the room (±155°) with the columns physically on the back wall facing forward. (all angles are from the centre speaker) IF you want to match the columns on the back wall, you can do the same thing on either side of the screen, as you did in your second drawing (will be about 5 feet away from Wide speaker columns).

Columns every 6 feet apart: Wides at 4 feet forward of listening position (±55°), Sides 2 feet behind listening position (±120°), Rear speakers 6 feet behind Side speaker columns, in the back corners of the room (±155°) with the columns on the back wall. Again, you have the choice to do columns on either side of the screen, like in your second drawing, in order to have front corner columns that match the back corner columns.

Both options have the colunms spaced pretty evenly. I doubt anyone will notice that the front corner columns are 5 feet away rather than having the consistent 4 or 6 foot spacing (5 feet is close to both options, splitting the difference). Not to mention that the room will be dark most of the time. If you do front columns that are stradling the front corners (rather than flat on the front wall), then do the same with the rear corner columns (just for a consistent look).

Personally, I would choose the first option (prefer my Side speakers directly to my sides rather than behind me). Of course that's easy for me to say since I'm not the one having to build the columns. The second option saves you on building a couple of dummy columns, though I don't know if that really makes a big difference to you or not, considering you'll already be building so many columns (what's a couple more in the assembly line?). It also gets the side speakers a couple feet closer to the back row; though for listeners in the front row (main listening position) it means that all four surrounds will be behind them.

Sanjay
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post #30 of 31 Old 12-30-2012, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the thoughts sdurani,

Attached is an updated sketch with all of the speakers. Most of the speakers fall within Dolby specs and I think the columns are nicely spaced.

So for the forum:

1) Any tweaks to this solution?

2) Would you keep the rears in the walls in the corner or move them to the ceiling more behind the seeting? I can't do the wall because of my racks.

3) Would you use all monopole, dipoles, or a mix?

Home Theater Design Ideas - Speaker Placement with Wides Updated.pdf 93k .pdf file
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File Type: pdf Home Theater Design Ideas - Speaker Placement with Wides Updated.pdf (92.7 KB, 26 views)

The Moving Pictures Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1462881/th...ruction-thread

Houston GTG - Summer 2014
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post26079610
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