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Dedicated Theater Design & Construction > The Coffin Build
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 02:59 PM 07-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by btinindy View Post
Hard to tell on the fabric just looking at it by itself. How is your photoshop skills?


BT1

Terrible to non-existent!

doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 03:15 PM 07-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Anchorage in Onyx or FR701 in black. I'm not partial to anything but black on the ceiling for video performance reasons. I like the look / finish of the Anchorage better than the FR701, but would be a bit more nervous about wrinkles over time with such large ceiling panels because it is a more delicate crepe material. Obviously your choice, though.
Anchorage is tougher to work with ie. doesn't stretch as easily......well, compared to Meander.

Zirconia in color Obsidian was my second choice originally..........but I'm a sucker for green so went with color Boulder though it's more gray than green. Interesting on Anchorage being delicate.........not near as stretchy as other fabric.

Not a fan of black, but with speaker grills, seats and screen wall in black it does tie in.

T, what's you opinion of the last sample......Zirconia in Obsidian? It's dark but does have accents which picks up gray. Am worried with carpet pattern, Zirconia Obsidian may clash.

I have some Anchorage in Onyx left over......about a yard or two.......I'll go try my hand at being Martha Stewart for twenty minutes and check it out.
TMcG's Avatar TMcG 03:45 PM 07-20-2014
It's hard to say. Only lining up all the real-life samples will let you know definitively if all the hues will match.

Aside from keeping the ceiling as black as possible, the other reason to go with black would be to NOT highlight the 'cloud' (coffered inset) and let that beautiful knotty Alder to all the talking on the ceiling. Why distract from the woodwork with a patterned fabric?
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 03:54 PM 07-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
It's hard to say. Only lining up all the real-life samples will let you know definitively if all the hues will match.

Aside from keeping the ceiling as black as possible, the other reason to go with black would be to NOT highlight the 'cloud' (coffered inset) and let that beautiful knotty Alder to all the talking on the ceiling. Why distract from the woodwork with a patterned fabric?
Yeah, you're right..............I don't have artistic/decorative sense at all.

Well, Anchorage in Onyx makes sense to tie in with screen wall.......

Thanks
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 04:24 PM 07-20-2014
Knotty Alder round two begins today.........

Just started sanding by hand beginning with 50 grit for knots and work my way down to 220. I could use my belt or orbital sander but believe I feel the wood's grain much better.........more work but finished product looks better.





Sanding vertical 1 X 8's and bottom beam 1 X 6's. Hitting 1000 with the 1 X 8's since all are workable but only hitting 500 with 1 X 6's. Have to return three out of six 10' 1 X 6 boards due to warp boards and knot holes that are too large to patch. Oh well..........






Taking a short coffee break since carpel tunnel syndrome is setting in...........

Tomorrow I will start mapping structure and screwing nailer boards in room...........feeling confident I can hit channels with 3" fine thread screws and then use 2-3/4" cabinet screws between channels. I will be using 5-1/3" screw pattern in side by side pairs..........overkill, probably........but I'll feel better watching a movie!

Only question I have, I prefer Spax screws but have 1/2 box of another brand leftover from last year which are 2-3/4" cabinet screws and plan on using them. Not a lot of weight with this project but still I worry about pull out stength of screws.
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doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 07:51 AM 07-21-2014
Last night mapped out locations of all channels in room.......easy as pie! Found first channel them marked every 16 OC then repeated process on other side of room. Didn't get a chance to chalk line all channels but will do this morning once I get staining done.


If you need to locate metallic furring or clips/channels, the zircon 40S metal scanner is a must have! Extremely accurate tool finding channels!

Tested with two 2x4's and rafter square. Found both edges of rafter square through 3" of wood then measured/marked midpoint......done!

Must have tool!


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TMcG's Avatar TMcG 08:48 AM 07-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Didn't get a chance to chalk line all channels but will do this morning once I get staining done.
I always hate the idea of plumes of chalk dust in a finished space without covering absolutely everything. Good luck and snap gently my friend!

I also just ordered one of the Zircon metal stud finders based on your recommendation. I know I'll need it in September, so might as well get it now.
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 09:35 AM 07-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
I always hate the idea of plumes of chalk dust in a finished space without covering absolutely everything. Good luck and snap gently my friend!

I also just ordered one of the Zircon metal stud finders based on your recommendation. I know I'll need it in September, so might as well get it now.
At first I was getting false reads but trick is scanning 1/2" off surface.......once I started doing that....PERFECT!

Marked first channel then used 25 ft tape to mark all 16 OC.......went back and tested every mark which was dead center as it should be! I was really anal retentive regarding setting/planning channel locations. Knew I would be facing this issue following year so took extra precautions.

Not every HD has the device.......when I traveled to Portland to experience Atmos theater, decided to pick up this device in Tigard.

Yeah, not looking forward to chalk lining..............
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 10:02 AM 07-21-2014
The quest for straight lumber has finally ended...........was on the phone with a friend who owns a specialty mill and by chance ask him about 1 X 6 Douglas Fir. His response was sure...... he had a stack of KD in warehouse and I should take a look. Stopped by this morning and was extremely happy what I saw! Straight, light KD Douglas Fir 1 X 6 boards for base screwing plates. 7 pieces of 1 X 6 KD Douglas Fir cost me just a Jackson! Sweet! Pays to live in "Timber Country!"

Home Depot wanted $4.50 each for green twisted gnarly crap! With a little know how.......paid approximately $2.85 each and have quality material.





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doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 10:12 AM 07-21-2014
Question for the masses.......

Now I'm ready for base plates for coffers, I'm thinking foregoing application of adhesive glue to base plate. I did use adhesive on trim for soffit face since I was not using screws but nails. Since I'm screwing plate into channels and using cabinet screws every 5-1/3" thereafter........there's really no need for adhesive.

What do you guys think concerning skipping adhesive step?

Thanks
TMcG's Avatar TMcG 10:22 AM 07-21-2014
For the few bucks in adhesive, I'd want the additional peace of mind....but maybe that's just me and my OCD talking....
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 10:36 AM 07-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
For the few bucks in adhesive, I'd want the additional peace of mind....but maybe that's just me and my OCD talking....
Only true advantage is board not slipping as much for placement along with bonding board as one piece to ceiling ie. Eliminate vibration.......

I'm paranoid about wife dropping piece and having liquid nails or PL Premium on carpet!

Liquid nails panel adhesive is water based and cleans very easily.........for piece of mind, maybe I should add adhesive though water based panel adhesive is not as strong as polyurethane construction adhesive. Oh well..........adhesive it is........
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 11:53 AM 07-21-2014
Ok......need help immediately.

At Home Depot and need 2-3/4 fine thread screws.

My only option is 2-1/2" or 3". Screws will sink so maybe 2-1/2?

I'd really hate to fall short or break circuit of soundproofing.

Build up is 5/8 OSB+GG+ 5/8 DW+texture for Rock+ 3/4 Douglas Fir.

Need suggests ASAP since at HD

Thanks
TMcG's Avatar TMcG 12:08 PM 07-21-2014
2 inches of material to go through, plus the 1/8" thickness of the metal leaves you only 3/8" penetration, plus whatever the screw head sinks. The 3" would bottom out only on the spots where you hit a clip....but you could simply back out the screw and move it off the clip in order to not short-circuit the connection. I'd go with the 3" myself.....or better yet...find another store that has 2.75" screws, if possible.
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 01:03 PM 07-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
2 inches of material to go through, plus the 1/8" thickness of the metal leaves you only 3/8" penetration, plus whatever the screw head sinks. The 3" would bottom out only on the spots where you hit a clip....but you could simply back out the screw and move it off the clip in order to not short-circuit the connection. I'd go with the 3" myself.....or better yet...find another store that has 2.75" screws, if possible.
Thanks,

Local Lumber yard doesn't have 2-3/4" neither Lowe's or HD. Special order!

Two inches of material like you said plus GG displacement and texture in rock must account for at least 3/16" so I was thinking 2-3/16" total........with suck up maybe 1/2" or less bite with 2-1/2" fine thread screw! Would prefer 5/8's to 3/4" bite.

I too was thinking 3" but like you said, hitting clip would be issue. With channel 7/8", I'm probably ok. Just call me a worry wart looking for validation.
TMcG's Avatar TMcG 05:36 PM 07-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
I too was thinking 3" but like you said, hitting clip would be issue. With channel 7/8", I'm probably ok. Just call me a worry wart looking for validation.
Most of your channel screws will end up in the channel but not anywhere near the clip itself, meaning the length of screw is inconsequential since the screw tips would end up in the insulated space between the joists. If you happened to go deep enough to hit a clip, you should be able to feel that through the drill and all you'd have to do is remove the screw and move it an inch or two in either direction to bypass the clip.

I'll be interested to see this being built in the coming days. Keep up the great work!
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 09:20 AM 07-22-2014
Atmos Implementation Starts Today!!

I've been planning this final step for a year when I actually had time to construct. Plan has taken many twists and turns.......what was once acoustical treatments with coffers has turned into an implementation of Dolby Atmos as primary purpose.

I've finalized a plan based on what little info is out in public domain and what Dolby has decided to leak concerning Atmos........most don't realize Atmos announcement was supposed to take place late August when specific details would be finalized.

Triad has been helpful but does not have definitive answers from Dolby so my construction plans are based upon best guess and what little information I have at my disposal.........I do have a little birdie on my shoulders who will most definitely help me when tough decisions have to be made concerning location and speaker angles to MLP. Due to room dimension issues, I 've decided to emphasize the front three seats for Atmos and rear seats will have compromises .....ie. not enough real estate for rear ceiling speakers for second row.......first row is fine.

From what I've been told by Triad in consultation with Dolby, front ceiling height speakers are most critical in implementing Atmos, minimum of at least four ceiling speakers with Dolby highly recommending six. In my discussions with Triad, no mention on location concerning width nor dispersal characteristics of speakers, just timbre matching was critical so eq plays a significant part if using varying models of speakers for LCR, side/rear surrounds and ceiling.

Based on Triad recommendations, my target is to make ceiling cloud 7-3/4 to 8" deep which I' going to have a hard time attaining. My vertical's are 7-1/4" with 1/4" reveal to beam which places structure at 7-1/2". If I add cove moulding to inside bottom beam, I may squeak out another 1/2 inch for a total of 8" depth.
Triad's recommendation using custom built Silver LCR in angle baffle may be my only alternative. In-wall Silver/ 4 LCR's might work given a jerry rigged ceiling bracket but speaker is huge at 4" X 14" X 26"........besides, I've tested possible angles in an 8" confine so at best I might be able to squeeze out 35-40 degree downward angle which might suffice. With this investment, might isn't good enough.

So..........based on information at hand, I was planning to build two 6' X 8'boxes with middle leg attaching both, but that design is problematic for middle ceiling speaker implementation, so I will be building a ceiling cloud 8' X 13' to house six ceiling speakers with 4" absorption with 2-3" air gap to help with LCR first reflections and SBIR issues with ceiling speakers...........any available space leftover in rear will have diffusion. May not be best plan down the road, but allows for future flexibility and is best plan with current available information.

We'll soon see how all pans out.........




BTW, cards are a visual metaphor.........
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doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 10:01 AM 07-22-2014
BTW,

Does anyone know how to modify thread title? I went to first post in thread and modified title........shows up at top of first post, but not in main menu thread title.

Changing title from "Coffin Build" to "Coffin Build Goes DOLBY Atmos."..........

Yeah, not too much imagination.......
grtuck's Avatar grtuck 11:31 AM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

From what I've been told by Triad in consultation with Dolby, front ceiling height speakers are most critical in implementing Atmos, minimum of at least four ceiling speakers with Dolby highly recommending six. In my discussions with Triad, no mention on location concerning width nor dispersal characteristics of speakers, just timbre matching was critical so eq plays a significant part if using varying models of speakers for LCR, side/rear surrounds and ceiling.

Based on Triad recommendations, my target is to make ceiling cloud 7-3/4 to 8" deep which I' going to have a hard time attaining. My vertical's are 7-1/4" with 1/4" reveal to beam which places structure at 7-1/2". If I add cove moulding to inside bottom beam, I may squeak out another 1/2 inch for a total of 8" depth.
Triad's recommendation using custom built Silver LCR in angle baffle may be my only alternative. In-wall Silver/ 4 LCR's might work given a jerry rigged ceiling bracket but speaker is huge at 4" X 14" X 26"........besides, I've tested possible angles in an 8" confine so at best I might be able to squeeze out 35-40 degree downward angle which might suffice. With this investment, might isn't good enough.
Incredible set up you have there, it should sound awesome. I am using Triad Silver LCR's in my set up as well. I did not expect that they would recommend using them for the Atmos heights too. I would be curious to see some photos of how you accomplished this so I can copy it (as long as you don't mind at least...). Also very interesting to hear that 6 height channels are going to be recommended since none of this year's AVR's will do that.
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 11:35 AM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
BTW,

Does anyone know how to modify thread title? I went to first post in thread and modified title........shows up at top of first post, but not in main menu thread title.

Changing title from "Coffin Build" to "Coffin Build Goes DOLBY Atmos."..........

Yeah, not too much imagination.......
It used to be under "thread tools" then "edit this thread" but the new format rather sucks so I am not sure.
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 12:52 PM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by grtuck View Post
Incredible set up you have there, it should sound awesome. I am using Triad Silver LCR's in my set up as well. I did not expect that they would recommend using them for the Atmos heights too. I would be curious to see some photos of how you accomplished this so I can copy it (as long as you don't mind at least...). Also very interesting to hear that 6 height channels are going to be recommended since none of this year's AVR's will do that.
Well,

I set aside savings to implement ADA Trinnov TEQ-12 but that unit only has 12 input/outputs. Now I'm looking for alternatives since I have 17 input/outputs! Don't expect much this go round as far as processors go, but next year at CEDIA might be different. Besides, I will only purchase processor with XLR input/outputs which I suspect Onkyo' version this year won't be.

Dolby emphasized timbre matching and placement of front heights. Since I have 6 Silver/4 LCR's for surrounds, best matching ie timbre match would be Silver LCR's........might have to have Triad custom build four in-ceiling Silver LCR's and use two in-wall Silver/4 LCR's for middle ceiling pair. Would be so much easier if I could get away with 6 Triad Silver Sats.........angled baffle is perfect and so is 6" depth!

No one at the moment has exact knowledge exactly how, what, where to place ceiling speakers at moment. I suspect I'll wait until later to purchase processor........my concern now is building ceiling cloud to hide all speakers. I'm lucky, my room with ten foot ceiling height is a "God Send!"

BTW, steal all the ideas you want......isn't this purpose of AVS? .
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 12:55 PM 07-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
It used to be under "thread tools" then "edit this thread" but the new format rather sucks so I am not sure.
Thanks for trying....,

Old format was easy to change.......I went through process you suggested and nothing......just titled my first post.

Oh well.....
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 02:50 PM 07-22-2014
All channels are identified and marked. Wife had simple task........place edge of 25 ft tape in first channel coming of wall at 16 OC. I moved ladder down marking 16 OC on tape 36" from soffit.

Went back on each black mark and located channel with Zircon 40S in red. Every single black mark was dead center in middle of two red marks which indicates exact edge of each channel. I'm more than confident that I'll be hitting channels every single time. Now to locate vertices of quadrilateral and measure diagonals for square......later this afternoon I should be screwing up 1 X 6 Douglas Fir screwing plates.




Red mark is Zircon 40S metal detection reads.

Black mark is location of channels using 1st channel located and rest marked by 25 ft tape. Dead center on every single one!!!!
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doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 04:04 PM 07-22-2014
Coffee break......

All channels located corners of quadrilateral located........diagonals are 1/16th off. Not bad..,,

Front mid beam will be 48" from front soffit, 54 inches from screen. Sides will be 36" from soffit face and back will be 36" too.

Just got done with tack cloth and layed down pre-conditioner. While that dries in the next thirty minutes I'll have front and back screw plates attached to ceiling......when done I'll begin staining vertical pieces.

Plan from last year worked like a charm.........front and back plates have their own channel so they will be solid and anchors for ceiling cloud.

Off to work......

BTW, lucky me......another nice beautiful burl! Gotta love this Knotty Alder!




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doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 04:58 PM 07-22-2014
All vertical pieces are now stained. Not a huge difference from pre-stain in photo, but I can assure you there is a huge difference in color after staining. Another shoot of beautiful Knotty Alder burl.......wish I had some spalted pieces but not in this second batch.

Off to attaching more Douglas Fir base boards to ceiling........,

BTW, have to have all KA from second batch stained as Thursday they will be once again shot with four coats of satin lacquer.


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doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 09:43 AM 07-23-2014
First of all, before I reveal my final plan, I'd like to thank those with creative minds helping me design this ceiling project. JPA and TMcG had great ideas I really wanted to implement due to "cool" factor but in the end, with all unanwsered questions still out there concerning Atmos speaker location and implementation, I decided on the most flexible option available based on locating speakers.

I liked two different design suggestions, but each had its own inherent problems namely weight issues and available width. With my engineering background, I was a little uneasy with specs on loads for channels and my channel layout.......therefore, I decided to go with the following plan:





I will use GOM Anchorage Onyx for ceiling fabric even though I have enough Meander Boulder material leftover. The interior cloud will be 6' 6" in width which is a compromise since I wanted 7 ft but aesthetics this time trumped my original thoughts. Spread of Atmos Speakers will be approximately 6 ft give or take an inch. May not be the best separation for each ceiling speaker row........but it is what it is.

From plan, there are MAJOR compromises to second row.......but bottom line emphasis was given to first row. To be honest, 99% of time my wife and I are the guests using room............the other 1% wont have a clue and know difference anyhow. There's only one special case I can think were my compromise to second row would be identified...........an AVS GTG which is not happening in my desolate region of country.

Guess it's time to cut MOAR wood.........pictures to come later today.
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doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 11:28 AM 07-23-2014
Base is getting screwed in......middle of board is where channel is located and attached with 3" grabber fine thread screws. Side screws are 2-1/2" cabinet screws. Solid.........





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doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 01:51 PM 07-23-2014
Coffee break........

Base going up quick and my wife has been extremely helpful on this one. Almost halfway done with base.

Wife hasn't complained with me using her Iranian granite as a work bench.......been very careful!!!





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BllDo's Avatar BllDo 01:58 PM 07-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Coffee break........

Base going up quick and my wife has been extremely helpful on this one. Almost halfway done with base.

Wife hasn't complained with me using her Iranian granite as a work bench.......been very careful!!!


Oh man, that pic makes me nervous, and it's not even my house.
doublewing11's Avatar doublewing11 03:32 PM 07-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post
Oh man, that pic makes me nervous, and it's not even my house.
It does doesn't it?

Sealed Granite months ago and have double diaper to protect from glues........since I'm using water based adhesives not too worried.

Must admit, that photo is scary!
Tags: Sony Vpl Vw1000es Projector , Marantz Av8801 , Peavey Ipr2 7500 Power Amplifier 7500 Watts
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