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post #1291 of 1811 Old 07-23-2014, 03:07 PM
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Be careful with that fine surface. Please don't take it for granite.


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post #1292 of 1811 Old 07-23-2014, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btinindy View Post
Be careful with that fine surface. Please don't take it for granite.


BT1
Too funny!!

Yeah, that one slab of granite costs as much as a Classe' SSP 800!

And here I am using the darn thing as a work bench!

Problem is....I can put adhesive and screws on board in garage, but then I have to maneuver three 90 degree turns........wife ok'ed my work bench!
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post #1293 of 1811 Old 07-23-2014, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Pretty much done with bones of coffer ceiling cloud. As I was screwing, I noticed a tad bit of flex or maybe it was my imagination.......who knows.

On left and right side of room, the 12' 6" legs ran right over splices of channel............I knew that would happen but am happy I placed a clip on each side of slice on roof trusses. Extra planning is paying off! I know I was able to get through at least one channel of each splice every time.....and for most part impact driver felt like it went through both......hopefully!

Can't say enough good things about the Zircon 40S metal stud finder! Worked like a charm and hit every single channel with no issues. Only had to back out once due to hitting clip with 3" Grabber fine thread screws.

Tomorrow is a day set aside for staining all Knotty Alder..........in evening friend is coming over to spray lacquer.......

Friday I'll build leg for projector so I can finally finish up back soffit with crown. In addition, I'll also be ripping 5/8" AC-U plywood for verticals on inside of ceiling cloud and attach to base with 1 X 2's for fabric channels......glued and screwed.

The big head ache is over.........now the fun part! TRIM!!!!!!!!!!

Here are a few photos of base for ceiling cloud which will hide 6 speakers and acoustical treatments. One step closer to Atmos implementation!






You can see middle beam will be in middle of front row seating for wife's reading........another reason for location is middle row of ceiling speakers aim directly down to ear of first row. Middle speakers will be in rear half directly behind middle cross beam which will have two 4" can lights.......very back beam will have same two can lights.








Here is only compromise of design.............rear speaker locations are not ideal for 2nd row. Rear speakers will be located slightly forward of ear level, but will angle perfectly for 1st row which is what I really care about.










Well, MOAR! work to do.......hopefully, done in two weeks!

BTW, my diagonals were less than 1/8" off.......normally I would correct but not on this one!
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post #1294 of 1811 Old 07-23-2014, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Can't help myself........OCD task master.

Getting a head start on tomorrow filling any holes in Knotty Alder. First batch no filling.....this batch all 1 X 6's need at least one hole filled......some pieces need more. Will sand later tonight and get started on few smaller pieces by pre-stain and staining tonight. Getting a jump start since tomorrow lacquer is on menu.

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post #1295 of 1811 Old 07-23-2014, 07:42 PM
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Nice progress! That is tough work all over head. It's going to be great!


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post #1296 of 1811 Old 07-23-2014, 09:08 PM
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Looking good!
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post #1297 of 1811 Old 07-23-2014, 10:57 PM
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Looking good!


I was in Harrah's Lake Tahoe this weekend and took a couple of shots of the ceiling. It made me think of your room. I also thought the way they added the legs was interesting.





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The Moving Pictures Theater Construction Thread:
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post #1298 of 1811 Old 07-24-2014, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btinindy View Post
Nice progress! That is tough work all over head. It's going to be great!


BT1

Thanks,

Yeah........tough work indeed.........my deltoids, neck, and wrist are sore this morning due to using rattle gun at all weird angles. Didn' want to move chairs, but next I will.......my body will thank me.
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post #1299 of 1811 Old 07-24-2014, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Maklar View Post
Looking good!
Thanks........

I'll be glad when it's done...........not a "Spring Chicken" anymore.........but I do love building things!
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post #1300 of 1811 Old 07-24-2014, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post
Looking good!


I was in Harrah's Lake Tahoe this weekend and took a couple of shots of the ceiling. It made me think of your room. I also thought the way they added the legs was interesting.
Thanks for the photos.............I agree, legs are quite interesting.

Honestly, my first thought was......... I hope avtexan has his wallet secured........looking up in a gambling establishment is a likely target for pick-pockets. If you were in Naples doing same.........not only would your wallet be gone, but your pants too!

There was so many good ideas I passed up with this ceiling............but in the end, I like vanilla ice cream. Ceiling has purpose.......hide speakers and be part of acoustic plan. I'm hoping it looks good too..............I had a hard time giving up height in room since I really like 10' ceiling.........oh well, that ship has sailed.

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post #1301 of 1811 Old 07-24-2014, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
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If you were in Naples doing same.........not only would your wallet be gone, but your pants too!
Naples Italy?

The Moving Pictures Theater Construction Thread:
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post #1302 of 1811 Old 07-24-2014, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by avtexan View Post
Naples Italy?
Yup, best food in the world! And the best pick-pockets too! I've been a victim of my own accord.....

My Mother's brother is buried North of Naples in a small town called Minturno. We visit his grave site every two or three years.....
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post #1303 of 1811 Old 07-24-2014, 07:49 PM
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Yup, best food in the world! And the best pick-pockets too! I've been a victim of my own accord.....

My Mother's brother is buried North of Naples in a small town called Minturno. We visit his grave site every two or three years.....
Cool! My grandfather met my grandmother in Naples during WWII. Her maiden name was Palma. Maybe we are long lost cousins.
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post #1304 of 1811 Old 07-24-2014, 08:08 PM
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"Gravity"...........I think a movie with subject matter like that can take full advantage of what Atmos can offer........but with a movie like GODZILLA, Atmos sorta got lost in shuffle.

Now I must admit, I was told before hand while not all movies are Dolby Atmos enabled and some are good.......bad.....and in different, GODZILLA fell in the latter category. Oh, well.........
I want to bring this back up for a moment, because I just got back from the theater tonight, having seen Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, in ATMOS (RPX). This sound mix was quite good, but still not really maximizing ATMOS (or the overhead speakers, I mean). There were a few cases where specific sound effects were localized overhead, and a lot of cases where the overhead sounds just seemed like ambiance. Honestly, I think this is as it should be. Gimmicks are distracting, and the sound should feel natural. So in a way, that's maximizing the effect, without overusing the effects (how's that for incomprehensible double-talk?).

And a question for the general movie sound fan - Is it some kind of new thing recently to pan dialog from center? I know Gravity got a lot of attention for moving dialog off-screen in a few scenes, and given the context it was very effective. There were two or three places where dialog was panned left or right - but not off the screen - in this Planet of the Apes mix. Is that something that they only do in ATMOS mixes, or has this become common in normal Dolby and DTS mixes?
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post #1305 of 1811 Old 07-24-2014, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post
Cool! My grandfather met my grandmother in Naples during WWII. Her maiden name was Palma. Maybe we are long lost cousins.
I would presume your Grandmother is Italian?

Well, if your Grandmother was born in either England or Germany.......maybe.

My Mother's brother was killed in 1943, trying to cross the Garigliano River........he was a member of Queen's Royal Regiment, but at time most outfits were patch work. The guy survived Dunkirk and was even a prisoner of war for 6 weeks in North Africa.......Germans patched him up only to be thrown back into Italy.

What's ironic, my Dad's Uncle ( Grandfather's brother) who was German is buried at Monte Casino........only 26 miles or so from my Mother's brother. I visit both grave sites when I'm in Italy.......British Military cemetery is immaculate........not so much for my Great Uncle' gravesite.

BTW, talk about a family feud! Family members firing at each other on opposite sides of battle line!
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post #1306 of 1811 Old 07-24-2014, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post
I want to bring this back up for a moment, because I just got back from the theater tonight, having seen Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, in ATMOS (RPX). This sound mix was quite good, but still not really maximizing ATMOS (or the overhead speakers, I mean). There were a few cases where specific sound effects were localized overhead, and a lot of cases where the overhead sounds just seemed like ambiance. Honestly, I think this is as it should be. Gimmicks are distracting, and the sound should feel natural. So in a way, that's maximizing the effect, without overusing the effects (how's that for incomprehensible double-talk?).

And a question for the general movie sound fan - Is it some kind of new thing recently to pan dialog from center? I know Gravity got a lot of attention for moving dialog off-screen in a few scenes, and given the context it was very effective. There were two or three places where dialog was panned left or right - but not off the screen - in this Planet of the Apes mix. Is that something that they only do in ATMOS mixes, or has this become common in normal Dolby and DTS mixes?
I must be out of my mind as your comments are comprehensible.......and spot on!

My only Atmos experience watching Godzilla? Bitter taste from my experience with Atmos has more to do with subject material than what codec.

Gravity would have been great to see in Atmos since sound pans gave you taste of what space would be like.......I personally liked off screen dialogue in Gravity......added to experience. As far as other movies moving dialogue across screen.......haven't seen much of that. BTW, I almost drove to Vancouver, Washington to watch "Planet of the apes", but was recommended OMSI IMAX in Portland would be a better experience for Atmos than Cinetopia at Vancouver Mall.

I'm not into gimicky audio.....lifelike is more to my tastes. Lone Survivor would have been the real deal in Atmos.......all that metal flying over head.

Atmos has so much potential.........ability to add to movie experience. Can you guess? I'm all in......
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post #1307 of 1811 Old 07-25-2014, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Found something to do this morning.......up at 5 AM and finished cove molding around columns. No more unsightly fabric channel. Wife walked in at 7:30 AM and stated, "Looks good, like a picture frame........see aren't you glad you listen to me?". My response, "Yes honey, you have great eye!"







Had to do a little trim on cove for some columns due to electrical outlets. Kerfed and use coping saw......sanded and just stained, no sealer.




Just waiting for lacquer to have time to set before handling. Hopefully, tomorrow I'll be hanging trim for ceiling cloud.
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post #1308 of 1811 Old 07-25-2014, 09:53 AM
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I love pics ! But you still need a flash

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #1309 of 1811 Old 07-25-2014, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I love pics ! But you still need a flash
So...........you want a flash huh? Here you go........





More pics coming with out Flash!





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post #1310 of 1811 Old 07-25-2014, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Getting ready to start framing single leg to soffit...........once done, I can finish rear soffit face and figure out transition to ceiling coffer cloud. Two crowns meeting at two different levels. Will be interesting.........

As you see base, it's not pretty but it's what I have to deal with..........not much weight anyhow.


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post #1311 of 1811 Old 07-25-2014, 01:46 PM
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You are rolling! Did all of your framing hit a channel?

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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post #1312 of 1811 Old 07-25-2014, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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You are rolling! Did all of your framing hit a channel?
Yes!



Front and back running perpendicular to side wall has channel running centered so 3" fine thread and wood screw to either side with Douglas Fir 1 X 6. Longer sides run perpendicular to channels so side by side screws into channel and between channels two 2-1/2" wood screws. Only issue is longer sides are smack dab in middle of splices!
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post #1313 of 1811 Old 07-25-2014, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post
You are rolling! Did all of your framing hit a channel?
Followup........

Here are a few photos JPA to answer your question:



This photo is front leg parallel to front screen. Black screws in middle are 3" Grabber fine thead screws..........closer to edge are 2-1/2 cabinet screws. I'd prefer to use Spax brand, but had so many screws unused from fabric channels I just worked with surplus.




This is corner of front leg transitioning to side wall leg. Douglas Fir 1 X 6 is perpendicular to channel......note black head screws are 3" Grabber FT. Still have to fill in a few more screws, but for now it will hold due to being glued and screwed.



Last picture is screw pattern for rear leg. Channel goes smack dab down middle of 1 X 6...........tried to keep screws at least 1-1/2" from edge due to using 2" 16 gauge finish nails for trim. Call it a safety margin.

In addition, this area area has 4-5 extra clips due to projector and anticipated coffer ceiling structure. Should be ok with additional clips and channels at 16OC. Sure glad I used 384 clips!

I altered my plan by a 8".......did this so I would be able to have channel run down middle of Douglas Fir 1 X 6. Front leg starts 4 feet in front of soffit so 5 ft in front of speakers. First. Reflections should be close to 6.5 ft..........I will be using 4" Owens Corning 703 with 3-4 inch gap to ceiling which turns into broadband absorber. When speakers go into ceiling cloud, these treatments will be used as a quasi-baffle.......and to eliminate SBIR.

Hopefully, this was a better post to answer your question.......I was at mill getting MOAR wood.......
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post #1314 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Could someone in the know help me out a bit......

I'm ready to order either 4" Owens Corning 703 or 705 for absorption for ceiling.

Seems to me I might be best served purchasing 2" and stack rather than solid 4" material......added flexibility.

Not an expert by all means, and have done my due diligence researching.......but it seems overall consensus is 703 performs just as well as 705 but is half the price. My concern is not $......with these panels floating off ceiling by 3-4", I'm worried about strength and rigidity of material being held by eyelets attached to ceiling ie. sagging.

Question is.......is OC 703 rigid enough to be held with fender washers to support hanging from ceiling or better served by using 705.........I'd hate to see panels sag into fabric......
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post #1315 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 07:51 AM
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The stuff is very rigid and I have never read about the material sagging. If you did six secure points per 2x4 sections, I don't think you will ever have to worry about sagging.

As to your stacking I'm not expert, but from what I've read, a good mix would be to use two 2" layers with some plastic sheeting in between. This will help by diffusing rather than absorbing all the high frequencies and keep your room from sounding overly dead. I don't know how this would exactly work with your Atmos setup, but it's probably where I would start. Maybe Nyle or HopefulFred can chime in on where I might be missing something.

Loving the updates!
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post #1316 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 07:55 AM
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I'm not one to comment on the appropriateness of 4" of rigid fiberglass on the ceiling from an acoustics perspective, but the fiberglass shouldn't sag. Super 77 spray adhesive is a great way for a full, permanent bond - even for the 4" material. But if you use normal fasteners like fender washers or plastic roofing nail caps, a simple "5" pattern, like the #5 on a die, will be more than enough to permanently secure the panel from a mechanical perspective.

Other helpful info at this link: http://www.atsacoustics.com/page--Ac...FAQs--faq.html
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post #1317 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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The stuff is very rigid and I have never read about the material sagging. If you did six secure points per 2x4 sections, I don't think you will ever have to worry about sagging.

As to your stacking I'm not expert, but from what I've read, a good mix would be to use two 2" layers with some plastic sheeting in between. This will help by diffusing rather than absorbing all the high frequencies and keep your room from sounding overly dead. I don't know how this would exactly work with your Atmos setup, but it's probably where I would start. Maybe Nyle or HopefulFred can chime in on where I might be missing something.

Loving the updates!
Thanks,

Layer of poly between 2" material makes perfect sense since EG spec'd similar to front wall. Every inch of room has some form of treatment........why not ceiling.

Let's see what Fred has to say......
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post #1318 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 08:13 AM
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I'm glad to lend an opinion here, but don't go thinking it's more valid than anyone else's.

4" with a 4" gap (that's the plan as I understand it, yes?) is about as broadband as you'll get, so that sounds good to me. A layer of plastic seems like a prudent choice here, to perhaps maintain some higher frequency ambient energy while maybe even providing a LF absorption boost (not below 100hz, I bet, but still down into the modal range). If you don't have any plastic already to use, I think thicker is probably better here - like 6 mil.
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post #1319 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
I'm not one to comment on the appropriateness of 4" of rigid fiberglass on the ceiling from an acoustics perspective, but the fiberglass shouldn't sag. Super 77 spray adhesive is a great way for a full, permanent bond - even for the 4" material. But if you use normal fasteners like fender washers or plastic roofing nail caps, a simple "5" pattern, like the #5 on a die, will be more than enough to permanently secure the panel from a mechanical perspective.

Other helpful info at this link: http://www.atsacoustics.com/page--Ac...FAQs--faq.html
Thanks T,

When Roger visited room, he detected an issue in 300 Hz region..........I did finally put Linacoustic RC on facade wall ceiling with two layers sandwiched with poly sheet after his visit.........helped quite a bit. The remedy sure helped but adding 4" with air gap will help more below 400-500 Hz and may get down a tad below 100 Hz with air gap.

I will be adding two MSR Spring Traps to front in near future........my understanding is those bass traps are made in Portland, Oregon by Triad.

Guess it's an overall plan for 4" with air gap. Unless someone tells me otherwise ie. I'm making a BIG mistake, that's the plan.
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post #1320 of 1811 Old 07-26-2014, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post
I'm glad to lend an opinion here, but don't go thinking it's more valid than anyone else's.

4" with a 4" gap (that's the plan as I understand it, yes?) is about as broadband as you'll get, so that sounds good to me. A layer of plastic seems like a prudent choice here, to perhaps maintain some higher frequency ambient energy while maybe even providing a LF absorption boost (not below 100hz, I bet, but still down into the modal range). If you don't have any plastic already to use, I think thicker is probably better here - like 6 mil.

So I presume you'd recommend 2" 703+ 6mil poly rather than 3mil + 2" 703 with 3 to 4" air gap behind absorption.......

Got it......

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