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post #181 of 1857 Old 09-05-2013, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

I'm very interested in how this goes. I'll be following closely. smile.gif

And so will I. I've always wondered if Quest products were worth their price.......we shall see.

Reading graphs are one thing......remedying problems with additional treatments/locations are another. Esthetic considerations are paramount.........
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post #182 of 1857 Old 09-05-2013, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

Boy......you drive a hard bargain! IMHO, the 1000ES is worth every penny.

As far as this update business, my new processor is 1.4 hdmi enabled.....with this new 2.0 hdmi business I wonder if I can even pass through source material from server into processor.

I've signed up for update, yet many questions on signal delivery have me wondering what is possible and future work-a-rounds. Hate to update to find out passing source material through processor is not doable without downgrading signal. Updating would therefore be moot.

I have to give Kudos to Wikipedia's webpage, updated significantly just yesterday, the day the new HDMI 2.0 standard was passed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_2.0

This link has all the speed transfer rates by specification. Maximum throughput per channel increased from 3.4Gbps to 6.0Gbps with a maximum TDMS of 18Gbps, which is what you need to run 4k at full 60 fps frame rates - exactly what your Sony projector update will cover.

Quite simply, you cannot pass 2.0 through 1.4 and get the full data rate. The HDMI protocols "handshake" and once your receiver tells your 4K source device that it is 1.4, the 4K source device outputs into 1.4, plain and simple. The workaround is to send a second HDMI cable to the projector specifically for this one 4K source and connect it to the second HDMI input. OR if some manufacturers are smart, there would be a loop-through on the 4K source device so that it will pass the 1.4 stuff through and step up to 2.0 when called for, shipping either out over the same wire.
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post #183 of 1857 Old 09-05-2013, 11:46 AM
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Mostlikely, the HDMI committé understands how important wikipedia is and submitted a prepared page themselves.

Under construction: the Larch theater
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post #184 of 1857 Old 09-05-2013, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I have to give Kudos to Wikipedia's webpage, updated significantly just yesterday, the day the new HDMI 2.0 standard was passed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_2.0

This link has all the speed transfer rates by specification. Maximum throughput per channel increased from 3.4Gbps to 6.0Gbps with a maximum TDMS of 18Gbps, which is what you need to run 4k at full 60 fps frame rates - exactly what your Sony projector update will cover.

Quite simply, you cannot pass 2.0 through 1.4 and get the full data rate. The HDMI protocols "handshake" and once your receiver tells your 4K source device that it is 1.4, the 4K source device outputs into 1.4, plain and simple. The workaround is to send a second HDMI cable to the projector specifically for this one 4K source and connect it to the second HDMI input. OR if some manufacturers are smart, there would be a loop-through on the 4K source device so that it will pass the 1.4 stuff through and step up to 2.0 when called for, shipping either out over the same wire.

Ok..........you have me a little worried here. Thought I had all bases covered with 2-1/2 Electrical PVC pipe to projector. Three sweeps of 90 degrees made the one HDMI cable an exercise in caution.......ie. it fit but with quite a bit of muscle power........pulling two would be interesting.

This is what cable I'm using:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025507&p_id=9171&seq=1&format=2

No mention of CL2 compatibility ........but bit rate of 10.4 Gbps is mentioned which is well short of 18Gbps for 4k at 60fps. Guess I have issues........eek.gif

Another issue.......esthetics......................I don't really want to tear this apart:




That box is a fine piece of furniture.................have access to back, but would be a pain in the #$$ to pull two HDMI cables!!eek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gif
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post #185 of 1857 Old 09-05-2013, 05:53 PM
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I think you're okay. http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/finding_right_cable.aspx
Quote:
The High Speed HDMI cable is designed and tested to handle video resolutions of 1080p and beyond, including advanced display technologies such as 4K, 3D, and Deep Color.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/4k.aspx
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How to Ensure 4K functionality in your Home Theater System
  • Look for devices that support 4K functionality.
  • All High Speed HDMI cables will support 4K functionality when connected to 4K devices. You can use your existing High Speed HDMI cables or choose a different cable type.

That said, the bandwidth issues are a little troubling. And none of these HDMI.org links refers to a frame rate (and I don't know when they were last updated). Normally, I don't recommend Cnet articles, but this one includes actual experience with cables like yours working with 4K - but only at 30fps. Even so - that doesn't mean yours won't work at 60fps potentially. Further, are you going to be using them with high frame rate video? I would only be watching at 24fps, myself - but I won't be watching much 3D or video games.

At the very least, I wouldn't swap the cables without trying them. What cable would you buy to replace the one you have?
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post #186 of 1857 Old 09-05-2013, 05:59 PM
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Yeah, your cable tops out at HDMI 1.4 and can't handle the significantly higher data throughput rates that 60 fps 4K requires. I just checked with Monoprice and actually "chatted" with one of their reps. They have no HDMI 2.0 cables and won't for several months at a minimum.

I'm surprised that you had trouble pulling a single wire through a 2.5" conduit, especially with sweep 90s. There's cable lube to help smooth out the frictional resistance. It's a f'in mess to deal with, but it makes a dramatic difference when pulling through conduit. A helper on the other end feeding slack into the pipe also helps.

I guess we'll have to see what little trinkets they come out with during this transition to avoid the downgrading handshake issue.

VERY jealous of your projector, by the way!!!
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post #187 of 1857 Old 09-05-2013, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

I think you're okay. http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/finding_right_cable.aspx
http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/4k.aspx
That said, the bandwidth issues are a little troubling. And none of these HDMI.org links refers to a frame rate (and I don't know when they were last updated). Normally, I don't recommend Cnet articles, but this one includes actual experience with cables like yours working with 4K - but only at 30fps. Even so - that doesn't mean yours won't work at 60fps potentially. Further, are you going to be using them with high frame rate video? I would only be watching at 24fps, myself - but I won't be watching much 3D or video games.

At the very least, I wouldn't swap the cables without trying them. What cable would you buy to replace the one you have?

Thanks for the information...............

As far as trading out cables..............haven't looked into it as of yet............nor do I know for sure if I need too.

As far as frame rate, I would assume the server which Sony has included in package outputs 4k at 60fps............which is clear as mud........not even 2.0 compatibility confirmation............an inference, yes. Will know for sure in 3 weeks since more goodies are to be announced for 1000ES at CEDIA.
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post #188 of 1857 Old 09-05-2013, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Yeah, your cable tops out at HDMI 1.4 and can't handle the significantly higher data throughput rates that 60 fps 4K requires. I just checked with Monoprice and actually "chatted" with one of their reps. They have no HDMI 2.0 cables and won't for several months at a minimum.

I'm surprised that you had trouble pulling a single wire through a 2.5" conduit, especially with sweep 90s. There's cable lube to help smooth out the frictional resistance. It's a f'in mess to deal with, but it makes a dramatic difference when pulling through conduit. A helper on the other end feeding slack into the pipe also helps.

I guess we'll have to see what little trinkets they come out with during this transition to avoid the downgrading handshake issue.

VERY jealous of your projector, by the way!!!

Thanks a lot....................

Guess I'll be singing, "Breakout the lube"!

At my age...........that's scary!! lol

Well....................I guess I purchased the least used HDMI cables EVER!!!!biggrin.gif
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post #189 of 1857 Old 09-05-2013, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

As far as frame rate, I would assume the server which Sony has included in package outputs 4k at 60fps...........

Spec is saying it will do 4K at 30fps http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&productId=8198552921666556068&langId=-1&k_id=76d796cf-7f47-6809-1be4-00003518494a&kpid=8198552921666556068&XID=O:fmpx1:dg_gglsrch:pla&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CMSEnpnBtbkCFUqk4AodEScAXg#features

Yet the projector's update will go up to 4k 60fps. Hopefully by the time that upgrade kit rolls around Sony will have updated that device to do the full 4k 60fps the projector can handle!!
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post #190 of 1857 Old 09-05-2013, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Spec is saying it will do 4K at 30fps http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&productId=8198552921666556068&langId=-1&k_id=76d796cf-7f47-6809-1be4-00003518494a&kpid=8198552921666556068&XID=O:fmpx1:dg_gglsrch:pla&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CMSEnpnBtbkCFUqk4AodEScAXg#features

Yet the projector's update will go up to 4k 60fps. Hopefully by the time that upgrade kit rolls around Sony will have updated that device to do the full 4k 60fps the projector can handle!!

Wow........................I'm not worthy................I bow to the "Home Theater Search Guru!" biggrin.gif

(shrugs) never took the time to look at server.

Well............the current picture thrown is incredible...............can't wait for the upgrade and download 4k movies. Figured I'd have to wait a few years......but it seems the wait wasn't too long.

Now it they could only offer "Sleepless in Seattle" on server............a classic! smile.gif
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post #191 of 1857 Old 09-05-2013, 07:16 PM
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I'd settle for not making the freakin' thing a round hockey puck. I mean, seriously.....how do rack mount this thing?? Not that it needs to be exposed, but it always seems the Sony design department always gets a bit carried away with their "statement" pieces in new product categories.
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post #192 of 1857 Old 09-05-2013, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

I'd settle for not making the freakin' thing a round hockey puck. I mean, seriously.....how do rack mount this thing?? Not that it needs to be exposed, but it always seems the Sony design department always gets a bit carried away with their "statement" pieces in new product categories.

Well..............it could complement the 8801............I have the same gripe about that piece too! wink.gif
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post #193 of 1857 Old 09-09-2013, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Just finished a 15 minute session watching EPIC in 3D............first time I've seen 3D using the VPL HW1000ES...........

140" wide screen was watchable................not bright, but watchable. Shrunk screen down to approximately 120" wide and the picture was much brighter.................. more punch with colors and brightness. Actually, with a negative gain screen...........I was surprised by overall brightness.........expected less.

I'm not a 3D guy, but wanted to see how the projector handled 3D...............suffice to say, no crosstalk or judder whatsoever. With what little 3D I've seen, crosstalk has always been an issue with JVC's I've seen along with a few other Sony models- wish I could have seen a Lumis 3D to compare biggrin.gif.

After Chip Kelly finishes his debut with the Redskins, I'll start the movie again and will have an overall opinion...........so far so good.
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post #194 of 1857 Old 09-09-2013, 08:18 PM
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Not very big on 3D either but I recently watched some 3D at a friends house. He is MrSmithers here on avs. We watched Under the Sea and it was phenomenal. Shocked me actually. It is all about getting the right content. There is a chasm between good and bad 3D. I am still not planning to watch much 3D but there are a few worthy titles out there. Another one we watched was the new Dredd and it has some cool time slowing scenes that have a lot of fun with 3D (in a fairly gruesome way).


What a start for Chip's offense. Good luck preparing for that. Heck, I am happy to get the Eagle's old coach here in KC. I thought that offense would be a game changer for the NFL after watching my Wildcats struggle against the Ducks in last year BCS game.
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post #195 of 1857 Old 09-09-2013, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

Not very big on 3D either but I recently watched some 3D at a friends house. He is MrSmithers here on avs. We watched Under the Sea and it was phenomenal. Shocked me actually. It is all about getting the right content. There is a chasm between good and bad 3D. I am still not planning to watch much 3D but there are a few worthy titles out there. Another one we watched was the new Dredd and it has some cool time slowing scenes that have a lot of fun with 3D (in a fairly gruesome way).


What a start for Chip's offense. Good luck preparing for that. Heck, I am happy to get the Eagle's old coach here in KC. I thought that offense would be a game changer for the NFL after watching my Wildcats struggle against the Ducks in last year BCS game.

Chip' offense is not really complicated..................he throws a lot of different formations, yet runs only a few plays. I was absolutely elated two years ago when my Trojans took it to the Zeros but was given a scare after a few turnovers as they came storming back. Can never count them out..................most people have no idea how fast paced the offense really is......................it's amazing to watch how he utilizes his personnel! The guy is cutting edge and am glad he's gone from the Pac-12!!!

Well, finished watching Epic 3D.............can't say I'll be watching too many 3D movies...............eye strain at my old age! biggrin.gif
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post #196 of 1857 Old 09-10-2013, 07:58 AM
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True enough but Vick has so many options with each play you never know what is coming.

I watched several of the past USC vs Oregon games and they have been high scoring affairs. They are a very dangerous team and even more so once they get you on your heels. And it looks like the machine is still running this year even without Chip.

You have to try Under the Sea. If that does not wow you then nothing will. Bummer about the eye strain. With Under the Sea you can watch just a few scenes at a time though.

If you want to get some cheap glasses for others to demo 3D in your room then the Sony glasses that they use for the PS3 are decent and very cheap. I might end up with just a couple pairs for the infrequent occasion.
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post #197 of 1857 Old 09-10-2013, 06:45 PM - Thread Starter
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It's calibration time!

Will be busy the next few days..........but will attempt to post graphs of room and brainstorm how to remedy any issues. Might be this weekend before I hit this endeavor thoroughly.

Well, here is a photo of my humble measurement beginnings............. set up and preparing for sweeps.

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post #198 of 1857 Old 09-10-2013, 07:20 PM
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I'll be watching closely. Are you planning to use HDMI to the AVR? I recently discovered that it may not be supported on a Mac, which is a bit of a disappointment.

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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post #199 of 1857 Old 09-10-2013, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post

...will attempt to post graphs of room and brainstorm how to remedy any issues.
Do you have any observations about the sound at this point? Having (presumably) seen no measurements of it - it'd be interesting to compare critically your perceptions in an unbiased way to the current objective reality. Just a thought.
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post #200 of 1857 Old 09-10-2013, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll be watching closely. Are you planning to use HDMI to the AVR? I recently discovered that it may not be supported on a Mac, which is a bit of a disappointment.

Hdmi to front of 8801 is my mode apparatus......

Closing door and not ripping cord or door seals are on my mind....

I have my sub 6db's hot and will have recalibrate. Coming to a head for another pair of subs in back........my measurements hopefully will help determine my direction.
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post #201 of 1857 Old 09-10-2013, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

Do you have any observations about the sound at this point? Having (presumably) seen no measurements of it - it'd be interesting to compare critically your perceptions in an unbiased way to the current objective reality. Just a thought.

Glad you brought this up........

I have been happy with the dynamics of Triad Gold LCR's..............but not their resolution. Maybe a SBIR issue.......

Been contemplating auditioning Triad Gold Monitors in my room and am currently arranging an in-room demo for my front stage. If I loose dynamics, I'll stick with Gold LCR's........

There could be an upgrade in the near future to Triad Plats.......but I'll never use them to their full capacity..........

Would love to use ribbons.....listen to a lot of music. Have found both my wife and I use the room quite a bit to relax and listen to music.

I'm not an enthusiastic compression driver type of guy.......and most definitely not my wife either!
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post #202 of 1857 Old 09-11-2013, 01:19 AM
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How about Sunfire then?

CRS-3
_vyr_981Sunfire_CRS3_front.jpg

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post #203 of 1857 Old 09-11-2013, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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How about Sunfire then?

CRS-3
_vyr_981Sunfire_CRS3_front.jpg

Have never seen nor heard..................

If Adam Audio came out with in-walls for their GTC line..............I may have gone that route. The folded ribbon ie Heil transducer has come a long ways!

My absolute favorite speakers have been Gold Monitors............with Ariel 20T V2's a close second. The difference being $4000 compared to $10,000..........well.......Triad Gold Monitors are a bargain! biggrin.gif
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post #204 of 1857 Old 09-13-2013, 07:57 AM
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Did you ever figure out your remote solution? Referencing this thread.

-




Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
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post #205 of 1857 Old 09-13-2013, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Did you ever figure out your remote solution? Referencing this thread.

Thanks for the heads up..............I forgot about my inquiry in fore mentioned thread due to lack of advice.

I have ran a cable to AV closet for the purpose of controling Grafik Eye............have a pair of 2-1/2 in PVC tubes for control to the room via the AV closet. I'm open to any long term reliable control system for handling my room be it IR, RF.................and have prepared my room for hard wiring if need be. I just need to take the time and find a GI and control system that is an easy to use system (wife is issue) so the misses can find and forget as she is not too tech savvy.
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post #206 of 1857 Old 09-14-2013, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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First graph coming out of room...................might as well post as I have a huge learning curve! This is S2 only......from 10hz to 80 hz smile.gif

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post #207 of 1857 Old 09-14-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Tweaking.......................can't wait for minidsp in hand! Hugh dip at 65 hz


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post #208 of 1857 Old 09-14-2013, 03:53 PM
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That's the sort of dip you get from a phase inversion at the crossover.

Are you applying smoothing? For bass and diagnostic purposes, I'd start without it - or maybe 1/48th.
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post #209 of 1857 Old 09-14-2013, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

That's the sort of dip you get from a phase inversion at the crossover.

Are you applying smoothing? For bass and diagnostic purposes, I'd start without it - or maybe 1/48th.

Just a little gun shy with SPL..............

I set calibration appropriately and edited graph.................still have a dip at 65 hz............

I have no smoothing...............check updated graph. Prior one has been replaced. biggrin.gif
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post #210 of 1857 Old 09-14-2013, 04:06 PM
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Yeah you got something else going on there. Not only the huge dip, but there is no way 2x18" subs roll off at 30 Hz like that. Are you going from the laptop direct to the S2, or is the AVR in the middle?

Tim
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