Moving past 7.1 into 9.1/11.x/3D ObjectAudio in HT via AudysseyDSX/DolbyPLIIz/DTS Neo:X™/Auro-3D - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 893 Old 07-02-2013, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

Interesting and this data come from where? So the total angle should be less than 60 for front speakers hum!

If you go by Audyssey's recommendation (for 9/11.1), the mains should be 30 deg apart. The wides are spec'd for 60.

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post #272 of 893 Old 07-03-2013, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

Interesting and this data come from where? So the total angle should be less than 60 for front speakers hum!

It's the IACC-dip. I can't seem to google up a good graph over it, but in the range of 21-23 degrees there's a shelf-dip around the bell curve. It's sort of preference based inbetween designers where on that shelf you want to be. Ken Kantor picked the 21 for his speakers, Ingvar Oehman who designs mine says 23. Cinema standard 60 makes less sense here, but then we also have a center channel that relieves the 'making centered sound believable'.

But, what I said was - IF you are going to listen to music (=stereo) in the room... go for the stereo placement. You will lose less in cinema more from this than you will lose in stereo mode with 30 degree.

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post #273 of 893 Old 07-03-2013, 06:27 AM
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I might have the specs wrong, can someone help me. Can the Denon 4520 run a true 11.2 (with added amp), all at the same time. Not heights OR wides, like it seems to be the standard alot of times If not, what will. And, are there any other choices.
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post #274 of 893 Old 07-03-2013, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by harrybnbad View Post

I might have the specs wrong, can someone help me. Can the Denon 4520 run a true 11.2 (with added amp), all at the same time. Not heights OR wides, like it seems to be the standard alot of times If not, what will. And, are there any other choices.

Yes, 4520 and also the previous model 4311 can do that. 4311 only ran DSX, 4520 also Neo:X

Besided that you have a Marantz prepro that can (given it being the same company, it might very well be a stripped/modified 4520).

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post #275 of 893 Old 07-03-2013, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View PostIt's the IACC-dip. I can't seem to google up a good graph over it, but in the range of 21-23 degrees there's a shelf-dip around the bell curve. It's sort of preference based inbetween designers where on that shelf you want to be. Ken Kantor picked the 21 for his speakers, Ingvar Oehman who designs mine says 23. Cinema standard 60 makes less sense here, but then we also have a center channel that relieves the 'making centered sound believable'.

But, what I said was - IF you are going to listen to music (=stereo) in the room... go for the stereo placement. You will lose less in cinema more from this than you will lose in stereo mode with 30 degree.

I will experiment and see?

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post #276 of 893 Old 07-03-2013, 08:02 AM
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If the front row recliners are "zero clearance" type that makes a big difference to the second row space.

I have not bought them yet smile.gif. Nor is my room built so I'm just trying to learn and understand and get advice so I can do it properly

I could move front row foot forward or second row back I guess too

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post #277 of 893 Old 07-03-2013, 08:53 AM
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Ya, that marantz looked bad to the bone, just to deep for my pockets. The 4520 looks like what I'll do. I'm at least 2 years away to complete my system. My daughter has a huge room. When she moves out, it becomes the man cave...... So at first I will only be able to add the front heights Then I'll add the wides. I'm coming from a sony with 7.1. Never really impressed me with the sound. Cant wait to have a better quality system again, and with 9.1. Thanks
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post #278 of 893 Old 07-03-2013, 08:59 AM
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Are there any speakers some would recomend for use for the front heights, and to replace my 4 rear surounds, which the rears have to be ceiling mounted. I'd like to keep the price under 250.00 each.
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post #279 of 893 Old 07-03-2013, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by harrybnbad View PostAre there any speakers some would recomend for use for the front heights, and to replace my 4 rear surounds, which the rears have to be ceiling mounted. I'd like to keep the price under 250.00 each.

Pioneer SP-C22 use brackets

 

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post #280 of 893 Old 07-03-2013, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by harrybnbad View Post

Are there any speakers some would recomend for use for the front heights, and to replace my 4 rear surounds, which the rears have to be ceiling mounted. I'd like to keep the price under 250.00 each.

I would think you would want to timbre match these speakers to your existing LCRs...meaning from the same company in the same technology series as a first option. What brand and model numbers are your LCRs?
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post #281 of 893 Old 07-03-2013, 02:19 PM
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They should be up graded too. I have some 10 yr old sony floor standing, L/R. My center was one of jbl best ...... (at once) They played ok for a while. They actually did great when I had my yamaha avr. But it died, and I needed a quick hdmi avr, so at the time the sony was almost free. But even then, nothing like the yamaha.....
So when I jump UP to the Denon 4520, I think starting from scratch will be a smart idea. Not to mention. And most important......Here me on this one. My wife may NEVER SAY OK AGAIN. So I better jump...........
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post #282 of 893 Old 07-03-2013, 02:27 PM
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No reason why the jbl center couldn't sound good again. I'd expect a little more power in the 4520 than the sony has, might do the trick - otherwise try with an external poweramp just to see if it's just power it lacks.

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post #283 of 893 Old 07-03-2013, 07:23 PM
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Yep,that's my idea, I think the JBL do fine I hope, just not sure what to upgrade the 4 rear surrounds with, seeing they will also be quite visible, I'd like them to either blend in, or pop. And should or could the front heights be the same speakers. I guess if I canget a good deal on 8 evenly matched speakers. (for the surrounds) I think thats my new plan.

Ok then. How bout the front L/R. Do I need to match the surrounds there, or is the center more important to match.
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post #284 of 893 Old 07-03-2013, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

I'll take a pic of mine later showing the amount of clearance with everything reclined.

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post #285 of 893 Old 07-03-2013, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by harrybnbad View Post

Yep,that's my idea, I think the JBL do fine I hope, just not sure what to upgrade the 4 rear surrounds with, seeing they will also be quite visible, I'd like them to either blend in, or pop. And should or could the front heights be the same speakers. I guess if I canget a good deal on 8 evenly matched speakers. (for the surrounds) I think thats my new plan.

Ok then. How bout the front L/R. Do I need to match the surrounds there, or is the center more important to match.
Match the front, don't sweat the rears unless you want to spend more.
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post #286 of 893 Old 07-04-2013, 02:10 PM
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If I haven't killed this thread. How bout this AVR-4311CI. I looks like a good unit for the price. I realize its missing the neo x. Is that really worth 1000.00...???? MORE.... I've seen a youtube review on the 4520. I must say. WOW....I guess if I can find it around 2 grand I might go that route. I actually see where I can get new in box for under 1800. I might just do that instead. Just too many choices.....
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post #287 of 893 Old 07-10-2013, 04:33 PM
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If I haven't killed this thread. How bout this AVR-4311CI. I looks like a good unit for the price. I realize its missing the neo x. Is that really worth 1000.00...????

You can't beat the 4520. You should give me a call if you plan to buy one. smile.gif

I've had mine now for a few weeks, and have had my 11.1 system up and running for about 2 weeks - I love it !! The front sound stage is outstanding. The 4520 is light years ahead of my 4310 too. And NEO:X rocks - that's about all I'm using now.

New blacker soffit, with height speakers installed !

You can barely make out the height speakers on the black soffit.

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post #288 of 893 Old 07-17-2013, 07:03 AM
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I just installed my 11 speakers. i have the 4520 but have not hooked it up yet. Right now I have my old pioneer receiver just to listen to tunes while I work. I can pick any of my favorite 5 speakers to power them! haha. I cant wait to get the 4520 setup and try them all. I just want to finished my equipment closet and get teh door up to keep dust out.
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post #289 of 893 Old 07-29-2013, 04:08 PM
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I am really starting to want a pair of Wide speakers. I am VERY happy with the 9.2 I have with the Heights, but adding another pair in would be pretty awesome!
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post #290 of 893 Old 07-29-2013, 07:28 PM
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Just thrilled with Neo:X over here too. Running weekly movies on our Marantz AV8801. I did not expect to do as much entertainment in the theater this summer, but now I am excited for the fall and the dark nights which make hiding in the theater a no-brainer!
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post #291 of 893 Old 07-29-2013, 08:30 PM
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Just thrilled with Neo:X over here too. Running weekly movies on our Marantz AV8801. I did not expect to do as much entertainment in the theater this summer, but now I am excited for the fall and the dark nights which make hiding in the theater a no-brainer!

Ya, 11.1 with the new 4520 and Martin Logan speakers are just a treat. I'll bet your 8801 sounds outstanding !!

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post #292 of 893 Old 08-05-2013, 11:56 PM
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wish there was more source material for the 9 or 11 stuff. So for those of you who run wides have you ever switched to heights or back to wides, if you are running 9? Also how much does the wides really add to it, with regual broadcast tv material? I read or hear somehwere that it can sound weird when the voices get pulled off to the "side" meaning the wides and it sounds unnatural is that true?
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post #293 of 893 Old 08-06-2013, 01:11 AM
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I read or hear somehwere that it can sound weird when the voices get pulled off to the "side" meaning the wides and it sounds unnatural is that true?
Can only happen with Audyssey DSX wides, can't happen with DTS Neo:X wides.

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post #294 of 893 Old 08-06-2013, 10:32 AM
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wish there was more source material for the 9 or 11 stuff. So for those of you who run wides have you ever switched to heights or back to wides, if you are running 9? Also how much does the wides really add to it, with regual broadcast tv material? I read or hear somehwere that it can sound weird when the voices get pulled off to the "side" meaning the wides and it sounds unnatural is that true?

Like sdurani said, I've never heard that with DTS Neo:X. It sounds great. As for broadcast TV, we have DISH, and only watch HDTV. Shows like Under The Dome and Revolution ( and I imagine the new season of 24 ) broadcast in 5.1 - sounds like watching a movie on Blu Ray. We don't watch too much regular TV in our home theater, but even America's Got Talent sounds damn good - about as " like you are there " as you are going to get ( sports too - Super Bowl, NBA playoffs ).

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post #295 of 893 Old 08-15-2013, 05:30 PM
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I just want to update my observation on the topic.
DTS Neo:X:
I think I like it the most out of the three, so far. From what DTS said in the earlier posted interview, it also use the rear channels in combine of the front height channels to give you the directly above your head sound stage. And I believe it. The above/on top sound sounds more..... directly above you. Like rain, or people running/walking on the above floor, sounds like it's coming right on top of you or could even be, on top but behind you, or on top but you can tell it's more to your left/right than directly above. Versus PLIIz sound a little bit more "on top but slightly in front" of you.

This has been an issue that I am trying to tackle before I cut holes in my ceiling. I was thinking about moving the heights closer to the seating position wile keeping them spread out horizontally. I want the heights to sound like the are on top of me rather than up high and in the front. Any thoughts?

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post #296 of 893 Old 08-16-2013, 04:09 AM
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When you experiment with positioning - do keep in mind all the seats! It is very easy to lose the center balance as you will be much closer to one when you sit off-center. What you really need is a speaker that falls off quite much off-axis, so the closest speaker will play more faintly when you sit closer to it... and reversely have the other side aimed so that you in that position sit precisely on-axis of it and get more.

I'm going to experiment with a ceiling surround-center myself and I'll be using four speakers for that.. But I intend on building some kind of adjustable jig so I can move them around with less trouble until I find the best position (or scrap the idea).

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post #297 of 893 Old 08-16-2013, 06:26 AM
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I'm going to experiment with a ceiling surround-center myself and I'll be using four speakers for that.. But I intend on building some kind of adjustable jig so I can move them around with less trouble until I find the best position (or scrap the idea).

Tell me about your plans with the four speaker setup you are talking about. I am assuming you are not doing that for the surround and surround backs.

I have been looking at these speakers, because they are no too expensive for heights. They are also directional.

I think that I am sold on moving them closer to the seating position unless somebody really convinces me not to. It is just really hard for me to demo height in different positions simply because I do not know what to use to hold them 9' in the air.

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post #298 of 893 Old 08-16-2013, 07:38 AM
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Tell me about your plans with the four speaker setup you are talking about. I am assuming you are not doing that for the surround and surround backs.

I intend to extract the common information (if any) from the surround channels SR/SL and feed them to the ceiling by way of a matrix decoder. I hope in this way to get flyovers more natural for all seats. Otherwise it tends to be more of a flyaround if you're not sitting center seat. So this is totally outside standard. I will be calling it "Nightlord Extended Soundfield" cool.gif

(It would be possible to do the same for the SBR/SBL and have an SBC, I have two decoders, so I might try that too, but I thing the placement of that would interfere with the PJ window )

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post #299 of 893 Old 08-16-2013, 07:42 AM
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What matrix decoders do you have?

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post #300 of 893 Old 08-16-2013, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

This has been an issue that I am trying to tackle before I cut holes in my ceiling. I was thinking about moving the heights closer to the seating position wile keeping them spread out horizontally. I want the heights to sound like the are on top of me rather than up high and in the front. Any thoughts?
After a few more months of usage, I still like NEO:X for height more than the PLIIz. Again, it seems "less" in front of you, and more "on top".

I think you want to put the height channels at up high as possible and as spread out the front wall as you can or at least directly on top of the mains. Also, make sure the tweeter aiming at the LP if you can too.
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