Moving past 7.1 into 9.1/11.x/3D ObjectAudio in HT via AudysseyDSX/DolbyPLIIz/DTS Neo:X™/Auro-3D - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 893 Old 09-29-2013, 02:10 AM
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Any news from the CEDIA event regarding the new NEO:X?
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post #392 of 893 Old 09-29-2013, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by snyderkv View Post

Any news from the CEDIA event regarding the new NEO:X?

If there was...I missed it. I did see the Datasat demo with 11.4 using front wide and heights. They used all Triad speakers.
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post #393 of 893 Old 09-29-2013, 07:58 AM
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Cool, whatever I'll just throw speakers everywhere so it will be compatable with future formats, Auro/Atmos/NEO etc.
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post #394 of 893 Old 09-29-2013, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by snyderkv View Post

Cool, whatever I'll just throw speakers everywhere so it will be compatable with future formats, Auro/Atmos/NEO etc.

There is some speculation that since Dolby wasn't at Cedia, they will announce something at CES in Jabuary.
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post #395 of 893 Old 09-29-2013, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by snyderkv View Post

Cool, whatever I'll just throw speakers everywhere so it will be compatible with future formats, Auro/Atmos/NEO etc.

Notwithstanding my own preference to playback multichannel audio using its 'native' speaker configuration: In the event that either or both of the Hamasaki 22.2 channel (link) or ETRI 30.2 channel (link) audio configurations is actually used in U.S. OTA, CATV, streaming, or future-disc distribution of AV content, I will force myself to live with some mixdown to a maximum of "about 16" satellite speakers!
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post #396 of 893 Old 09-29-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Notwithstanding my own preference to playback multichannel audio using its 'native' speaker configuration: In the event that either or both of the Hamasaki 22.2 channel (link) or ETRI 30.2 channel (link) audio configurations is actually used in U.S. OTA, CATV, streaming, or future-disc distribution of AV content, I will force myself to live with some mixdown to a maximum of "about 16" satellite speakers!
_
The ETRI 30.2 looks like, what I envision anyway, a typical commercial speaker layout, just tripled.
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post #397 of 893 Old 10-01-2013, 04:43 PM
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In the event that either or both of the Hamasaki 22.2 channel (link) or ETRI 30.2 channel (link) audio configurations is actually used!

 

That's unsain, I can't imagine the cost and the install!

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post #398 of 893 Old 10-01-2013, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

In the event that either or both of the Hamasaki 22.2 channel (link) or ETRI 30.2 channel (link) audio configurations is actually used!

That's unsain, I can't imagine the cost and the install!

Neither one will be used due to space considerations.

What will probably be presented is a 7.1 or 9.1 discrete channel base (probably using the current lossless DTS and Dolby formats) with object audio data added as extension files (9.1 would be 7.1 plus dual overhead channels as that seems to be the basic configuration for Atmos, MDA, and Auro3D). Today's equipment will ignore the extra audio data and play the track back as a 7.1 lossless mix. The updated DTS and Dolby lossless decoders will see the extra two channels and tack them on. The new object surround rendering decoders will "see" the object extensions and map them to the correct x-y-z panning coordinates encoded in the object metadata instructions. The objects can be placed at any number of extra speakers to create as many "channels" as the object renderer can process. If you don't have the complete speaker layout of the original mix session, the renderer will most likely place the objects in a "phantom" speaker location using psychoacoustic phase techniques.

Dolby TrueHD and DTS MA codecs are both capable of core + extension encoding. It's just a matter of adding a compatible object renderer into the mix.

Then again, I could be wrong and they'll instead have two audio tracks: a standard DTS or Dolby lossless track and a stand alone object based mix. The correct track will play dependent upon the equipment you have. All depends on how they decide to encode the object based track and whether the newer media will have sufficient space.

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post #399 of 893 Old 10-01-2013, 05:02 PM
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I hope some one brings all three, Atmos, MDA, and Auro3D that would be sweet

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post #400 of 893 Old 10-01-2013, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by wse View Post

I hope some one brings all three, Atmos, MDA, and Auro3D that would be sweet

I would assume it will be Atmos and MDA. Barco seems to be siding with DTS and their MDA object scheme. Though, Auro3D might be added to current Blu-ray discs due to the way they encode their mixes. It does sound like Atmos and MDA are much more precise than Auro3D. Could be one reason Barco changed their tune.

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post #401 of 893 Old 10-01-2013, 05:21 PM
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Unfortunately there wasn't a video of the room with speaker placement, but Procella Audio did an Auro3D room using their new distribution partner's processor - the StormAudio SSP-163D.

Gerben also posted a photo on Procella's Facebook page where they were installing one of the new P6 in-wall speakers as part of the "Voice of God" channels above the seating.

*

The "VOG" channels will be the only extra speakers I will be prewiring for outside of my 9.4 system (two side speaker array, not heights or widths).
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post #402 of 893 Old 10-01-2013, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Notwithstanding my own preference to playback multichannel audio using its 'native' speaker configuration: In the event that either or both of the Hamasaki 22.2 channel (link) or ETRI 30.2 channel (link) audio configurations is actually used in U.S. OTA, CATV, streaming, or future-disc distribution of AV content, I will force myself to live with some mixdown to a maximum of "about 16" satellite speakers!
That's unsain, I can't imagine the cost and the install!

Actually, all it really takes to playback from 22.2 channel source is the 3Daudio equivalent of a soundbar...?! biggrin.gif
Quote:
The 85" prototype|proof-of-concept|"roadshow" UHDTV from NHK pictured at this 2011 EBU demo (link) supposedly provides full surround sound playback from 22.2 channel input in rooms where installing 22 separate satellite speakers is impractical; instead, it uses 100+ "small" speaker units in a frame around all four sides of the display--plus some proprietary active-DSP|soundbar-style technology--to deliver "the same" playback soundfield to the audience. (Plus I'm guessing there might also have been a separate sub or two!)


And of course downmixing all the way to 2.0 will still be an option for anyone using a convertor box and a 'current generation' stereo HDTV...?! cool.gif
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post #403 of 893 Old 10-01-2013, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Unfortunately there wasn't a video of the room with speaker placement, but Procella Audio did an Auro3D room using their new distribution partner's processor - the StormAudio SSP-163D.

Given StormAudio's already existing relationship with Illusonic (who make the SpherAudio HeadPhones technology in StormAudio products), I did wonder if the StormAudio SSP 16-3D might not be a more saleable vehicle for Illusonic Immersive Audio upmix technology (than Illusonic's own processor...)
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post #404 of 893 Old 10-01-2013, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Auro3D might be added to current Blu-ray discs due to the way they encode their mixes.

Auro 9.1 content is already present on a few audio only concert BDs (buried within an Auro-encoded 5.1 PCM soundtrack). The question seems to be whether the movie studios are willing to release Auro 9.1, 10.1, or 11.1 soundtrack versions of their movies...?

Of course, with no available mass market priced Auro3D decoders, the studios have no incentive to produce BDs with an Auro3D encoded soundtrack!
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post #405 of 893 Old 10-01-2013, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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For the ceiling/VOG speakers what is the lower limit where they become impractical, too close to the seated people to make effective sound field?

My HT ceiling is just under 9 feet tall, 8 feet 9 inches - so I'd be game trying them in future, I could easily recess then into my ceiling.
However those here with ceilings in the 7 foot range may not be able to go the ceiling/VOG route?

I've not seen any specifications on the room size/range min's, or if I have then my 50 year old brain has forgotten them, if they exist please post here.
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post #406 of 893 Old 10-01-2013, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

New GIK acoustic panels and Martin Logan Motion FX surround speakers.
Motion 40's L & R, Motion 8 center, Motion 4 heights, 2 Motion LX16 wides ( on Sanus stands ), 4 Motin FX speakers for side and rear surrounds. They sound outstanding. Give me a ring if anyone is interested in buying a similar setup.
Nice set-up Craig, I have to ask has anyone here given you the "don't put tables in front of you as they may induce un-wanted acoustic reflections" lecture?
(no, I'm not giving it to you - no need to derail this thread)
I realize this is a shared space, so compromise(s) usually made. Just curious.
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post #407 of 893 Old 10-01-2013, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Given StormAudio's already existing relationship with Illusonic (who make the SpherAudio HeadPhones technology in StormAudio products), I did wonder if the StormAudio SSP 16-3D might not be a more saleable vehicle for Illusonic Immersive Audio upmix technology (than Illusonic's own processor...)
At less than 60% of the cost of Illusonic's own processor, that would make for quite a bargain (assuming you like Illusonic processing). Don't know if Illusonic would undermine their sales by licensing their surround processing to a pre-pro that was priced so much lower. Note that ADA's outboard Trinnov units cost about the same (per channel) as Trinnov's own units, so that one brand doesn't undermine sales of the other. Also remains to be seen what room correction (if any) StormAudio will include with their pre-pros.

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post #408 of 893 Old 10-02-2013, 08:36 AM
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Nice set-up Craig, I have to ask has anyone here given you the "don't put tables in front of you as they may induce un-wanted acoustic reflections" lecture?
(no, I'm not giving it to you - no need to derail this thread)
I realize this is a shared space, so compromise(s) usually made. Just curious.

Yes, but sometimes compromises have to be made, for the sake of practicality ( like a place to put your wine glass ). Overall, the sound in the room is pretty good. Certainly the best I've had. I think the Audyssey XT32 helps.

The last demos I did at Cedia last Sat. were the Steinway Lyngdorf audio demo room, followed by the Wisdom Audio demo room - both of which sounded outstanding, of course. Got home later that day, and watched Oblivion with my wife. And somewhere near the end of that movie, I realized that I really like the sound of the ML Motion speakers with the Denon 4520, even compared to all the other speaker / audio demos I heard over 3 days at Cedia. There are a lot of great speakers available that excellent though. I'm just happy with my current choices. Now it's time to get that 2nd SVS subwoofer................smile.gif

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post #409 of 893 Old 10-02-2013, 12:53 PM
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The latest AES Convention in a couple of weeks is going to have a workshop titled:

"Height Channels: Theory, Practice, and "Ears-On" Experience"

http://www.aes.org/events/135/workshops/?ID=3653

Hopefully this is a good sign for the future of 3D audio.

Sanjay
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post #410 of 893 Old 10-02-2013, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View PostYes, but sometimes compromises have to be made, for the sake of practicality ( like a place to put your wine glass ). Overall, the sound in the room is pretty good. Certainly the best I've had. I think the Audyssey XT32 helps.  The last demos I did at Cedia last Sat. were the Steinway Lyngdorf audio demo room, followed by the Wisdom Audio demo room - both of which sounded outstanding, of course. Got home later that day, and watched Oblivion with my wife. And somewhere near the end of that movie, I realized that I really like the sound of the ML Motion speakers with the Denon 4520, even compared to all the other speaker / audio demos I heard over 3 days at Cedia. There are a lot of great speakers available that excellent though. I'm just happy with my current choices. Now it's time to get that 2nd SVS subwoofer................smile.gif

Cool and good for you enjoying one's system is all that matters :)

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post #411 of 893 Old 10-02-2013, 10:00 PM
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The Procella/StormAudio Auro 3D Audio demo used the full Auro 11.1 channel configuration:

Left/Center/Right
Left Height/Center Height/Right Height
Left Surround (2 speakers, same input)
Right Surround (2 speakers, same input)
Left Height Surround
Right Height Surround
Ceiling Height (Voice of God) (2 speakers, same input)

We used two subwoofers - a P18 in the baffle wall and a P15 on the back wall. Both were fed the same input but calibrated on separate channels. We also had two back wall surrounds for the standard 2D audio deom.
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post #412 of 893 Old 10-07-2013, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Chuck Back View Post The Procella/StormAudio Auro 3D Audio demo used the full Auro 11.1 channel configuration:
Left/Center/Right
Left Height/Center Height/Right Height
Left Surround (2 speakers, same input)
Right Surround (2 speakers, same input)
Left Height Surround
Right Height Surround
Ceiling Height (Voice of God) (2 speakers, same input)

We used two subwoofers - a P18 in the baffle wall and a P15 on the back wall. Both were fed the same input but calibrated on separate channels. We also had two back wall surrounds for the standard 2D audio deom.

Whoa that must have been surreal :)

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post #413 of 893 Old 10-07-2013, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

The latest AES Convention in a couple of weeks is going to have a workshop titled:

"Height Channels: Theory, Practice, and "Ears-On" Experience"

http://www.aes.org/events/135/workshops/?ID=3653

Hopefully this is a good sign for the future of 3D audio.

sdurani,
Very interestng! I hope we get feedback or a summary from that workshop.

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post #414 of 893 Old 10-07-2013, 01:02 PM
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Any PODCASTS available?

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post #415 of 893 Old 10-07-2013, 04:42 PM
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Was watching the most recent episode of Revolution a few days ago. Running 7.1 with wides through a denon x4000. There was a scene with a conversation in a pool. For about a minute or so there was a cool panning effect of a bug flying around behind me back and forth. Was pretty cool.
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post #416 of 893 Old 10-07-2013, 04:49 PM
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Do we really need 11 surround speaker in a 14 x 18 size room? I have 9 already and that's plenty for me in a 19 x 20 x 10

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post #417 of 893 Old 10-07-2013, 08:02 PM
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Do we really need 11 surround speaker in a 14 x 18 size room? I have 9 already and that's plenty for me in a 19 x 20 x 10

Need and want are 2 different things. I didn't need 11 speakers ( over my previous 7 ), but I like it a lot more. I don't need a 2nd subwoofer either - but it's on it way !! smile.gif

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post #418 of 893 Old 10-07-2013, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View PostNeed and want are 2 different things. I didn't need 11 speakers ( over my previous 7 ), but I like it a lot more. I don't need a 2nd subwoofer either - but it's on it way !! smile.gif

That is so true :)

 

For me to put 11 speakers in, I would probably need to have a new processor since the Classe SSP-800 is only 10 Channels including the subs. In addition I don' think I can afford to add four more 802D.

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post #419 of 893 Old 10-08-2013, 05:57 AM
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Been so busy at work/kids/yada-yada, been a while since I've posted.
Here's an update to my 130" diag Scope HT (or UltraWide or 2.35:1 or ??) - full 11.3 via Denon 4520CI + Emotiva amp, and added fronts/wides for 11 mains/center/surrounds and 3 subs for LFE give a 11.3 set-up
(I have the IB 4 x 15" line array on Sub1 and both 18" and 15" SI cubes on Sub2, so technically a 11.2 I guess from a processor viewpoint).
Those 18" and 15" SI drivers in sealed cab's along front wall and side wall help flatten the in room response in my 2 row, 8 seat, 11.3 HT.

The panorama stitching in PSE made the curved look to the ceiling acoustic clouds, they are straight in real world.
HT%252011.3%2520cover%2520off%2520Pano-b.jpg

Subjectively I've used my 4520CI and tried AudysseyDSX vs DolbyPL IIz vs DTS Neo:X™ , and honestly I've settled on NeoX as my default codec for 11.3 processing.

I truly love the enveloping surround sound of 11.3, this has satisfied my "upgrade-itis" I'd say till 2015, when I might dive into AT screen + auto masking system + 4k PJ, do some DIY CD speakers (DIY Sound group), totally re-do the acoustic treatments then, etc.

Upon reading the recent posts in this thread, appears DTS posted a "tweak" to their DTS Neo:X™ layout?
Are they really moving the front wides to the rears and calling them rear heights?

Is that a real NeoX 11.1 option? Or, just a proposal on the drawing board for a revision.

If so, that really confuses the whole scheme, calling it the same name yet changing the layout.
A companies whole credibility can get ruined for much less.



What do you use for playback of Blu-ray?
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post #420 of 893 Old 10-08-2013, 07:58 AM
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I am getting an oppo 103 and have heard different answers about whether it will pass the DTS Neo:X signal to a receiver. Has anyone in this forum tried it with The Expendables II?
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