Moving past 7.1 into 9.1/11.x/3D ObjectAudio in HT via AudysseyDSX/DolbyPLIIz/DTS Neo:X™/Auro-3D - Page 17 - AVS Forum
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Old 12-21-2013, 06:15 AM
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I think he should recalibrate the room and go through all the receiver settings to heck that nothing odd has been activated or deactivated.

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Old 12-21-2013, 09:11 AM
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Sorry, guys. Knee jerk reaction on my part to make that post and use the wording I did. The 4520 just doesn't have the sonic character, especially in the midrange, that I'm used to in my other Denons. It's already boxed up and I'll be looking at the Denon 4311. A friend just ordered one, so I'll get to hear it in a few days. No Neo:X, unfortunately, but it would give me height and wide at the same time. Can't let those height channels go to waste up there. biggrin.gif

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Old 12-21-2013, 03:45 PM
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Well, I just got a replacement Denon 4520 today. The first one had a bad left surround amp, so it went back. So far, I've just listened in direct mode, mostly to music but also a few clips from films.

Let me make it clear. I'm a huge Denon fan. I've had lots of receivers, but my favorites have always been Denons. I had a 3801, 3805 and 3808. Now I have a 1312 (cheapie for the computer room speakers), 2313 (for the bedroom home theater) and a 3313 (in the main home theater room). I sold a highly rated Yamaha A3000 and replaced it with the 3313. It's not possible to exaggerate how much better I like it. Aside from the fun height channel effects, though, I just don't care for the sound coming from this Denon 4520. Bass lacks authority and the midrange is anorexic compared to both the 2313 and 3313. Add to that the fact that it won't play HDTracks music from any of three USB thumb drives that work on both the 2313 and the 3313. Height channels don't come close to making up for the difference in sound between the 3313 and the 4520. Is it possible I got two lemons, or is this receiver really that lacking?

I'm a little suspicious of anyone who uses typical marketing phrases like authority, anorexic midrange, sonic character? etc. It shows you they are way over critical while under non controlled sighted tests. Controlled blind tests by forum members using a switchbox have shown their to be no audible differences between brands. Long time engineers who invented controlled tests claim the same including professional blind tests like the Richard Clark challenge etc. Processing will make a difference, gain controls, xt32, tone, EQ, the room etc. It's possible the Dennon is either broken or you have not accounted for every variable in the path.
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:05 PM
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I'm a little suspicious of anyone who uses typical marketing phrases like authority, anorexic midrange, sonic character? etc. It shows you they are way over critical while under non controlled sighted tests. Controlled blind tests by forum members using a switchbox have shown their to be no audible differences between brands. Long time engineers who invented controlled tests claim the same including professional blind tests like the Richard Clark challenge etc. Processing will make a difference, gain controls, xt32, tone, EQ, the room etc. It's possible the Dennon is either broken or you have not accounted for every variable in the path.

I apologized for my hasty comments. My preferences in audio are my own and the post shouldn't have been made. That said, the 4520 is boxed up and ready for return. I've ordered a Denon 4311. I've read many of those reports on blind tests. They'd mean a lot more to me if my experiences didn't contradict them so frequently. smile.gif

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Old 12-23-2013, 01:21 PM
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Well, I just got a replacement Denon 4520 today. The first one had a bad left surround amp, so it went back. So far, I've just listened in direct mode, mostly to music but also a few clips from films.

Let me make it clear. I'm a huge Denon fan. I've had lots of receivers, but my favorites have always been Denons. I had a 3801, 3805 and 3808. Now I have a 1312 (cheapie for the computer room speakers), 2313 (for the bedroom home theater) and a 3313 (in the main home theater room). I sold a highly rated Yamaha A3000 and replaced it with the 3313. It's not possible to exaggerate how much better I like it. Aside from the fun height channel effects, though, I just don't care for the sound coming from this Denon 4520. Bass lacks authority and the midrange is anorexic compared to both the 2313 and 3313. Add to that the fact that it won't play HDTracks music from any of three USB thumb drives that work on both the 2313 and the 3313. Height channels don't come close to making up for the difference in sound between the 3313 and the 4520. Is it possible I got two lemons, or is this receiver really that lacking?

Did you check the settings after you ran Audyssey? I found that my 4520 defaulted to Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume on, which I did not like sound wise with them on. Also, I also like turning up the subs a bit despite what Audyssey has me calibrate it at. I'm thinking that is this could be why you didn't like the sound - just a guess.

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Old 12-23-2013, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Did you check the settings after you ran Audyssey? I found that my 4520 defaulted to Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume on, which I did not like sound wise with them on. Also, I also like turning up the subs a bit despite what Audyssey has me calibrate it at. I'm thinking that is this could be why you didn't like the sound - just a guess.

It's possible I got a couple of atypical samples of the 4520, but the first one had a bad left surround amp and the second one won't play files from my USB thumb drives. That's two hardware issues and by itself makes me wary about reliability.

I always start out with music I know well when evaluating speakers and receivers. At first, it's with no correction of any kind, in "direct" or "pure direct" mode with Denons. As I think you know from other threads, I've spent a boatload of money on remodeling my home theater lately, and the main reason was for the sound (although the black velvet has made the projector look a lot better, too smile.gif ). Anyway, the first thing I noticed about the 4520 was that it didn't have the warm midrange that I think is a defining characteristic of the Denons I've owned. This affects my perception of everything from "simple" male and female vocals to much more complex chamber music and full orchestral pieces, as well as movie scores.

Everyone knows how notoriously unreliable audio memory is, so before I installed the 4520 I listened to the same music tracks (all 192/24 high resolution stereo tracks from HDTracks.com) and clips from several movies - in the same room but on the Denon 3313. To level the playing field, I used no room correction (direct mode) on the 3313. After being underwhelmed with the 4520, I retired to another system in the house - a bedroom with a small 5.1 home theater anchored by a Denon 2313 and GoldenEar Triton Seven speakers. I played a few of the same tracks again, just to make sure about the different midrange I was hearing on the 4520 and GoldenEar Triton Two speakers in the main home theater. Sure enough that midrange character was back with the Denon 2313. Then I returned to the 4520 and listened again. Same result.

I'm not a reviewer, and I don't do formal tests. I can't pin objective numbers to my perception of a distinctive Denon midrange. People have no reason to trust anything I say about such matters. Some people think anyone who says he hears a difference in receivers is delusional or lying. That's fine. Everyone is entitled to their own point of view. IMO, audio opinions are much more subjective than, say, opinions about projectors, which (also IMO) are much easier to quantify.

To me, the 4520 (if the ones I've heard were not defective - perhaps a big "if") has a very different sound than the Denons I'm used to. That doesn't make it bad. So did my Yamaha A3000, which was also highly reviewed and praised by reviewers and users. It's just not my cup of tea, and delusional or not that's all I care about.

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Old 12-23-2013, 04:53 PM
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Ya, great, but did you check your 4520 to see if it defaulted to Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume on ??

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Old 12-23-2013, 05:30 PM
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Ya, great, but did you check your 4520 to see if it defaulted to Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume on ??

Why do you not like dynamic eq?

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Old 12-23-2013, 06:22 PM
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Why do you not like dynamic eq?

In my room, it makes the bass very boomy and hollow sounding so I don't use it.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:26 PM
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Ya, great, but did you check your 4520 to see if it defaulted to Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume on ??

Ya, I did. biggrin.gif However, neither Dynamic EQ nor Dynamic Volume is available for change if you're in "Direct" or "Pure Direct" mode on the Denons. Those modes bypass all the Audyssey processing and direct the unaltered signals to the amps. I went through that with my Denon 3313 when I first ran Audyssey. I couldn't figure out what was happening. The sound "pumped," sort of the audio equivalent of what can happen to an image from a projector with an auto iris engaged (and not working well). The image brightness (or the sound) goes up or down depending on content. When I saw that both Dynamic EQ and Volume defaulted to on, I switched them off and those audio anomalies went away. I have no need for Audyssey to control the sound levels artificially in my theater, and I really dislike what Audyssey EQ does. They're turned off on both the Denon 3313 and the 2313, even when I'm using other Audyssey correction (as I do for almost all the films I watch). Personally, I think it's a mistake to default them to on.

My main home theater room is MUCH better for audio than it was before last summer. Before that time, sound was so screwed up that I was forced to use room correction to come close to accurate sound. My right front tower was crammed up against a wall. Bass especially was completely out of control without correction. And overall the sound didn't have room to "breathe" and imaging was constricted. I still need to build some bass traps, but now I believe I can get a great idea of a receiver's character without correction on at all. And my experience with the Yamaha A3000 and all my Denon's is that the basic character of the sound isn't changed by correction. I didn't like the midrange on the Yamaha, just as I don't like it on the 4520. No amount of fiddling with MCACC correction on the Yamaha gave me the Denon sound I was used to. And that's as it should be. For those people who like the Yamaha sound, the Denon midrange probably sounds wrong. That 's why it was silly for me to describe the sound as "lacking" in that first post. It's different, and lacking a character I like, but I'm sure others wouldn't care for it at all. That's why it was an inappropriate comment.

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Old 02-26-2014, 04:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Been a while since I posted in this thread.

I was at work yesterday, Tues Feb-25, checked AVS and saw a PM, it was member "edfowler".
He's from Indiana, and was in the SE Michigan area for 2 nights on business trip, wondered if he could come over and check out my HT.

I knew Ed from conversations in the DIY forum where he built an AT screen, a BIG one biggrin.gif
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1447901/curved-screen-build

Well, being short notice and all, I of course accommodated him, how can you say no to a fellow AVS member?
Turns out he was staying in hotel only 12 minutes from my home.
So, Ed came over last night 7:30pm and stayed till 8:30pm, we chatted, got to know each other better than just "virtual", a truly nice guy.
(when 8:30 pm came around realized time for me to put my 3 kids into bed, as they were upstairs doing homework/etc, while we were downstairs listening at times @ Reference volume, 0db ... hey I had to show off my IB sub, as Ed also has one)

Reason for sharing in my thread here is he is interested in going 9.x or 11.x, and wanted a comparison of wides, heights, then wides + heights.
Here is thread from him earlier, http://www.avsforum.com/t/1448971/value-of-wides-and-heights

This was done on the fly, purely subjective listening to some clips from ScubaSteve demo blu-ray disc.

Since I've settled on NeoX, that was default to start.

We started with what's become one of my favorite demo clips, the bombing scene in Pearl Harbor.
Then we watched Kung Fu Panda skadoosh scene, and Tron Legacy light bike battle scene, maybe 1 more?

Anyway going from full 11.3 in NeoX as sorta the baseline, as that is what we started out with, I switched to DSX 11.3, then only DSX wides, then only DSX heights.
Sorta missed PLIIz since this was on the fly.
(Yea - looking back would have been more controlled if I set it on 7.1 then go up to different combos, but that's not what happened, lesson learned for next evaluation.)

Still, subjectively for me doing this truly re-affirmed my opinion that NeoX has the 11.x sound dialed in, truly enveloping.

I also concur the wides do add more ambiance and envelopment that the heights, the heights did add some ..... "height" rolleyes.gif or more "bigger" soundstage than w/o, but for bang for the buck wides have priority.

I'll ask Ed to chime in here for his subjective opinion.
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Old 02-26-2014, 06:43 AM
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I agree that wides add more to the experience than heights. I am still considering modifying the heights to be more over the middle off the room. I think that would be a better spot for them.

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Old 02-26-2014, 09:05 AM
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I agree that wides add more to the experience than heights. I am still considering modifying the heights to be more over the middle of the room. I think that would be a better spot for them.

Look at the Dolby Atmos white papers. That might give you a better idea of overhead height surround locations in relation to the wall surrounds. Remember too, that object oriented surround is more than likely coming in the next year or two when UHD media hits. It will have discrete height surround information besides more regular surround coverage than ever before.

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Old 02-26-2014, 09:12 AM
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Look at the Dolby Atmos white papers. That might give you a better idea of overhead height surround locations in relation to the wall surrounds. Remember too, that object oriented surround is more than likely coming in the next year or two when UHD media hits. It will have discrete height surround information besides more regular surround coverage than ever before.

Do you have a link? This means that I will end up spending thousands of dollars on a new avr and speakers. I am sure the avr's that are capable of this will be pricey! I just bought my avr back in December too.

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Old 02-26-2014, 09:20 AM
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Do you have a link? This means that I will end up spending thousands of dollars on a new avr and speakers. I am sure the avr's that are capable of this will be pricey! I just bought my avr back in December too.

Yeah, I do actually. Sorry for not including it above. D'oh!

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/Assets/US/Doc/Professional/Dolby_Atmos_Specifications.pdf

I wouldn't be surprised if the first receivers and processors with at least DTS-UHD (introduced at this last CES) will be a lot more than cheap, shall we say. biggrin.gif

The only way I see object surround working is if it's modular, especially for receivers with limited space on board for speaker outputs. Start with a base amount of speakers (9 plus subs, perhaps) and then you plug in another unit with additional D/A converters and speaker location outputs that links to the rendering software in the home unit's processor. Many consumer object demos, so far, seem to revolve around 22 or so speakers plus subs at the max.

People have to start thinking more in terms of speaker locations rather than "channels" per-se. As an example, Atmos has a bed of either 7.1 or 9.1 channels + objects, but can explode to 64 assignable speaker locations that can be individually addressed via rendering software.

I have yet to hear if DTS-UHD is a hybrid channel+objects format like Atmos or a purely metadata controlled object bitstream.

Gravity was a great object surround demo, showing off some of the possibilities with this new format of computer controlled, real-time sound positioning and mixing. If you haven't heard this Atmos mix, let me tell you it was quite 3D in nature and put traditional 7.1 to shame. Plus, you'll definitely need timbre matched speakers all the way around the room. This was quite obvious when the sound engineers pulled off-screen dialog into various positions around the auditorium.

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Old 02-26-2014, 09:38 AM
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Wow, Dolby Atmos only requires its subs to go down to 40hz. That's sad.
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:00 AM
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Can you imagine how long it would take audyssey to calibrate! I need to look into this some more.

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Old 02-26-2014, 11:21 AM
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Wow, Dolby Atmos only requires its subs to go down to 40hz. That's sad.

That's for the surround subwoofers (many of which are suspended from the ceiling in retrofitted Atmos theaters), and yet their LFE channel subs only have to have a flat response to 30 Hz. Not much better. I think they're looking at overall sheer volume output rather than the quality of rumble in the lower and subsonic frequencies. Very hard to move and shake poured concrete auditoriums. wink.gif

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Old 02-26-2014, 12:35 PM
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Can you imagine how long it would take audyssey to calibrate! I need to look into this some more.

That rather depends on how many speakers you really need to install...

Working through the Dolby® Atmos™ Specifications (link) I get a minimum recommended count of 19.x speakers for a 'very small' theater. Coincidentally, the middle and height layer speaker total for the Hamasaki 22.2 configuration is also 19, which suggests that 'comparable immersion' could likely be obtained using properly mixed|rendered content for either speaker setup in a home environment.

Section 7, 'Quality performance of the multichannel sound systems' in Report ITU-R BS.2159-4 (05/2012) Multichannel sound technology in home and broadcasting applications (link) relates some research performed to validate the minimum speaker configurations required to provide acceptable immersive audio for next generation TV. It suggests that the Samsung|ETRI 11.2-VSS and Samsung|ETRI 10.2-VSS speaker configurations (7.1 Standard + 4x Height speakers, and 7.1 Standard + 3x Height speakers, respectively) deliver soundfields nearly indistinguishable from Hamasaki 22.2 speaker configuration playback when content is appropriately downmixed from 22.2 to 11.2|10.2.

Add a Front Wide speaker pair to the Samsung|ETRI 11.2-VSS speaker configuration, and you get a 13.2 layout that looks like a DTS Neo:X 11.x configuration with a Surround Height speaker pair added-on. This speaker configuration is 'already supported' by the Datasat LS10 (link).

And interestingly...


Before its absorption by Dolby Atmos, imm sound recommended a minimum 'computed speaker' granularity of 14.x for a 'small' movie theater, which is actually just about the same as the 'front wide speaker pair' configuration offered by the Datasat LS10 plus an Overhead Center speaker...!
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:51 PM
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Can you imagine how long it would take audyssey to calibrate!
Newer, more powerful DSP chips can make the same Audyssey routines run faster (e.g., Denon 4311 vs Marantz 8801). Audyssey could help by coming up with a newer, more efficient algorithm (as they did with XT32).

Besides, with 11.2-channel receivers already available for some time, don't expect the object-based receivers to have many more channels initially (maybe 13.2). Those two extra channels aren't going to take significantly longer for an Audyssey cal.

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Old 02-26-2014, 01:19 PM
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Wow, Dolby Atmos only requires its subs to go down to 40hz. That's sad.

Yeah, that's a zero too much....
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:26 PM
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Yeah, I do actually. Sorry for not including it above. D'oh!

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/Assets/US/Doc/Professional/Dolby_Atmos_Specifications.pdf

I wouldn't be surprised if the first receivers and processors with at least DTS-UHD (introduced at this last CES) will be a lot more than cheap, shall we say. biggrin.gif

The only way I see object surround working is if it's modular, especially for receivers with limited space on board for speaker outputs. Start with a base amount of speakers (9 plus subs, perhaps) and then you plug in another unit with additional D/A converters and speaker location outputs that links to the rendering software in the home unit's processor. Many consumer object demos, so far, seem to revolve around 22 or so speakers plus subs at the max.

People have to start thinking more in terms of speaker locations rather than "channels" per-se. As an example, Atmos has a bed of either 7.1 or 9.1 channels + objects, but can explode to 64 assignable speaker locations that can be individually addressed via rendering software.

I have yet to hear if DTS-UHD is a hybrid channel+objects format like Atmos or a purely metadata controlled object bitstream.

Gravity was a great object surround demo, showing off some of the possibilities with this new format of computer controlled, real-time sound positioning and mixing. If you haven't heard this Atmos mix, let me tell you it was quite 3D in nature and put traditional 7.1 to shame. Plus, you'll definitely need timbre matched speakers all the way around the room. This was quite obvious when the sound engineers pulled off-screen dialog into various positions around the auditorium.
Very interesting idea about having an external device to be able to get Atmos to work with your existing avr! I love that idea and it makes perfect sense. That being said, something like that would cost an arm and a leg I imagine. It kind of reminds me of Trinnov which is crazy expensive and out of my league. Lets hope that getting Atmos into home theaters is affordable for the majority.
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That rather depends on how many speakers you really need to install...

Working through the Dolby® Atmos™ Specifications (link) I get a minimum recommended count of 19.x speakers for a 'very small' theater. Coincidentally, the middle and height layer speaker total for the Hamasaki 22.2 configuration is also 19, which suggests that 'comparable immersion' could likely be obtained using properly mixed|rendered content for either speaker setup in a home environment.

Section 7, 'Quality performance of the multichannel sound systems' in Report ITU-R BS.2159-4 (05/2012) Multichannel sound technology in home and broadcasting applications (link) relates some research performed to validate the minimum speaker configurations required to provide acceptable immersive audio for next generation TV. It suggests that the Samsung|ETRI 11.2-VSS and Samsung|ETRI 10.2-VSS speaker configurations (7.1 Standard + 4x Height speakers, and 7.1 Standard + 3x Height speakers, respectively) deliver soundfields nearly indistinguishable from Hamasaki 22.2 speaker configuration playback when content is appropriately downmixed from 22.2 to 11.2|10.2.

Add a Front Wide speaker pair to the Samsung|ETRI 11.2-VSS speaker configuration, and you get a 13.2 layout that looks like a DTS Neo:X 11.x configuration with a Surround Height speaker pair added-on. This speaker configuration is 'already supported' by the Datasat LS10 (link).

And interestingly...


Before its absorption by Dolby Atmos, imm sound recommended a minimum 'computed speaker' granularity of 14.x for a 'small' movie theater, which is actually just about the same as the 'front wide speaker pair' configuration offered by the Datasat LS10 plus an Overhead Center speaker...!
_

More great info that has me second guessing the entire switch over but I still would love to have heights over the middle of the room just because I feel that it would sound more realistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Newer, more powerful DSP chips can make the same Audyssey routines run faster (e.g., Denon 4311 vs Marantz 8801). Audyssey could help by coming up with a newer, more efficient algorithm (as they did with XT32).

Besides, with 11.2-channel receivers already available for some time, don't expect the object-based receivers to have many more channels initially (maybe 13.2). Those two extra channels aren't going to take significantly longer for an Audyssey cal.

Running 11 channels plus a sub at least six times to calibrate take a little bit of time not too bad, but running 22 channels or more at least six times seems like it would take forever if it was the same speed as XT32. But you are probably right about the DSP chips being faster when they come out.

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Old 02-26-2014, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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The Audyssey routine speed of my 2012 4520CI (with 11.2) over my 2007 4308CI (5.1) is night and day, so much that I really hate doing calibration in my family room 5.1 with the 4308CI.

So if Audyssey tech team can maintain same overall time what it takes me to do my 11.2 with 22.4 Dolby® Atmos / DTS-UHD (yea - always more subs ) that is totally acceptable.

Realistically, IMO, high end "consumer" products may see this 2016-mid at the earliest....this will be such a niche product even then....sticking with my 6 year upgrade cycle 2018 @ $2.5k is my price point then for AVR with .

Till then, based on comments from Ed I've given my no-named HT a name, what he called it: "The Envelope" .... I like it!
As I'm 100% satisfied with my 11.2 NeoX sound, truly.
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:58 PM
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Running 11 channels plus a sub at least six times to calibrate take a little bit of time not too bad, but running 22 channels or more at least six times seems like it would take forever if it was the same speed as XT32.
True, but object-oriented receivers aren't going to be anywhere near 22 channels initially. Marketing-wise, the goal is to attract consumers, not scare them away with an overwhelming number of channels. With that in mind, I don't think there will be more than 4 height speakers to start off with. Maybe down the road there will be pre-pros that do more channels, but who knows what Audyssey (and MCACC, YPAO, etc.) will be like by then.

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Old 02-26-2014, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

True, but object-oriented receivers aren't going to be anywhere near 22 channels initially. Marketing-wise, the goal is to attract consumers, not scare them away with an overwhelming number of channels. With that in mind, I don't think there will be more than 4 height speakers to start off with. Maybe down the road there will be pre-pros that do more channels, but who knows what Audyssey (and MCACC, YPAO, etc.) will be like by then.

Yes. The important thing to take away from reading Section 7, 'Quality performance of the multichannel sound systems' in Report ITU-R BS.2159-4 (05/2012) Multichannel sound technology in home and broadcasting applications (link) is that it "demonstrates" there should be no need for almost any home theater system to go beyond the Samsung|ETRI 10.2-VSS speaker configuration to improve audio immersion.



Quote:
February 18, 2014, Korea.net article "10.2-channel audio becomes int’l standard" (link):
Quote:
"A 10.2-channel audio technology developed by engineers at the National Radio Research Agency (RRA) has been chosen as an international standard by the International Telecommunication Union (ITU), the UN agency responsible for information and communication technology. On February 7, the RRA’s technology was selected as one of eight standards to be used for next generation broadcasting."

Of course, it's likely that many people might instead opt to install the "competing" Samsung|ETRI 11.2-VSS configuration (which uses a Left+Right Surround Height speaker pair in place of the Center (Surround) Height speaker in the Samsung|ETRI 10.2-VSS configuration), e.g., to ensure closer compliance with native Auro-3D 9.1|10.1 content playback, or because of room geometry considerations. And it's probable that use of a Front Wide speaker pair will continue as a popular strategy to gain a smoother|wider front sound stage.

Which means you are still only looking at a MAXIMUM speaker count of about 13.x. cool.gif
_

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Old 02-26-2014, 05:22 PM
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Just remember, that if they encode these object mixes correctly then even if you move from 11.2 to 22.2 configurations, the same soundtrack should expand with your system upgrade. There would be no need to buy yet another version the movie because the track would already have instructions embedded for up to a certain level of speaker positions. At the current time, if a movie comes out with a new 7.1 mix and was originally released on disc as 5.1, you have to buy the new disc for the improved sound.

The question remains as to what the maximum amount of fixed speaker locations they'll go with for consumer-based object rendered tracks... even if they start off with a small number of speaker outputs. I hope it isn't just 11, but with greater expandability in mind.

The very next question is what the basic speaker layout should be for the maximum 3D effect.

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Old 02-26-2014, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
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...

I'll ask Ed to chime in here for his subjective opinion.

First, I'd like to thank Mike for welcoming me into his home on a moments notice. As I've noticed before whenever I've met fellow AVS'ers we have a lot in common from other non-theater related interests down to our journeys chasing home theater nirvana and the equipment we have purchased along the way. He was extremely gracious to let me stop by and admire his set up.

this is my first experience with wides and heights and I cannot believe the difference the added channels, especially the wides, makes. I told Mike I was going to call his theater 'The Envelope' and am happy to see that he adopted that as the official name.

NeoX was absolutely my favorite mode bar none. I haven't followed this thread and will probably read it later when I have time and repost after that. I don't know what more to add except that I see some wides coming to the fowler theater in the near future!
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Old 02-27-2014, 11:52 AM
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this is my first experience with wides and heights and I cannot believe the difference the added channels, especially the wides, makes. I told Mike I was going to call his theater 'The Envelope' and am happy to see that he adopted that as the official name.

NeoX was absolutely my favorite mode bar none. I haven't followed this thread and will probably read it later when I have time and repost after that. I don't know what more to add except that I see some wides coming to the fowler theater in the near future!

I don't regret the time, effort and expense of going from 7.1 to 11.2 for a minute. One of the best upgrades I've done in my theater !! smile.gif

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Old 02-27-2014, 12:17 PM
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I don't regret the time, effort and expense of going from 7.1 to 11.2 for a minute. One of the best upgrades I've done in my theater !! smile.gif

If you like 11.2 matrixed audio now... you'll cry when you hear object based surround. There is no comparison.

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Old 02-27-2014, 01:46 PM
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If you like 11.2 matrixed audio now... you'll cry when you hear object based surround. There is no comparison.

I simply can not wait. I dream about this.
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