Moving past 7.1 into 9.1/11.x/3D ObjectAudio in HT via AudysseyDSX/DolbyPLIIz/DTS Neo:X™/Auro-3D - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 893 Old 03-25-2013, 08:31 PM
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I am negotiating how to do an array for heights in the theatre.



This may be crazy, but hey...I have no kids.

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post #182 of 893 Old 03-26-2013, 04:11 AM - Thread Starter
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For most of us our indulgence in this hobby is what others call crazy.....

I see your wides are angled to just behind the 1st row.
How does that work for you, I did same in mine and it works fine in my set up.

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post #183 of 893 Old 03-26-2013, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post

I am negotiating how to do an array for heights in the theatre.


This type of setup was the basis for my earlier argument on how difficult I think it would be to successfully integrate wides that are optimized for multiple rows of seating and in very narrow rooms where the main and wide speakers are essentially on the same horizontal plane. There seems to be no good conclusion at this point if the wides are better off outside the mains but still on the front wall (or the wides slightly pulled forward) or how far up the side walls can be tolerated while preserving whatever is deemed as an acoustic benefit for both rows.
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post #184 of 893 Old 03-26-2013, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

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Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post

I am negotiating how to do an array for heights in the theatre.


This type of setup was the basis for my earlier argument on how difficult I think it would be to successfully integrate wides that are optimized for multiple rows of seating and in very narrow rooms where the main and wide speakers are essentially on the same horizontal plane. There seems to be no good conclusion at this point if the wides are better off outside the mains but still on the front wall (or the wides slightly pulled forward) or how far up the side walls can be tolerated while preserving whatever is deemed as an acoustic benefit for both rows.

Hence I temp put my wides on barstools and moved them about till I "liked" them - subjectively of course.
Then, during my construction I had to tweak exact location due to physical comprimise, still very acceptable end result.

My take; all the diagrams/layout/degrees are starting points for planning and design, then room/speaker interaction and room physical constraints come into play.
"There is no secret ingredient" - KFP

Position 1


Position 2 (yea - my heights were going up in this photo also)

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post #185 of 893 Old 03-26-2013, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

For most of us our indulgence in this hobby is what others call crazy.....

I see your wides are angled to just behind the 1st row.
How does that work for you, I did same in mine and it works fine in my set up.

No one in my extended family gets this stuff, and my friends always say "I thought it sounded good before", I do it because I am compelled by sleepless nights of possibilities I haven't tried! biggrin.gif

My wides are installed on a double hinge that allows for tweaks in angle. I currently lack strong skills in computer drawing tools, but rest assured they are equal to the angle of my fronts even if my drawing sucks smile.gif I like the flexability and agree I have found very good results so far.

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This type of setup was the basis for my earlier argument on how difficult I think it would be to successfully integrate wides that are optimized for multiple rows of seating and in very narrow rooms where the main and wide speakers are essentially on the same horizontal plane. There seems to be no good conclusion at this point if the wides are better off outside the mains but still on the front wall (or the wides slightly pulled forward) or how far up the side walls can be tolerated while preserving whatever is deemed as an acoustic benefit for both rows.

I am the type of guy who would ignor such advice to try other options first anyway, I simply must try new ideas and not follow along. I like to experiment if you will...call it years of never following the lego instructions and still having a fun childhood. smile.gif

Because my wides are on a double hinge I have remarkable flexability in terms of angle, though they will always be fixed to the wall. That I can live with. Somethings may not be white paper approved science in my room, but as long as I am 80% - 90% of the way there, I am happy to try. It is a hobby.


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post #186 of 893 Old 03-26-2013, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post For most of us our indulgence in this hobby is what others call crazy.....

Yes, I hear all the time "Whoa what big speakers you have!" 

 

Except for my kids who always want to krank up the volume they love it :)


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post #187 of 893 Old 03-26-2013, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

My take; all the diagrams/layout/degrees are starting points for planning and design, then room/speaker interaction and room physical constraints come into play.
"There is no secret ingredient" - KFP
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Originally Posted by zuluwalker View Post

I am happy to try. It is a hobby.

Agreed. It's always good to experiment. Back in the early 1990s I was always fiddling with the height speaker positions from my Yamaha "Natural Sound" receiver (DSP-A2070), although nothing about their DSP modes really sounded natural! I think it's good to experiment so we can all learn from one another. Unfortunately for my primary theater that I am building I will be lucky to get to the finish line let alone dump a bunch of cash into even more channels to be able to experiment. Perhaps someday with my upstairs family room system I'll be able to experiment since the room is much wider, taller and has significantly less expensive speakers now that I sold my Nautilus 802 system....
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post #188 of 893 Old 03-26-2013, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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If I knew back in 2007 what I know now I'd have run conduit along the walls and the ceiling back to the AV rack for the un-forseen improvements in 5-7 year time frame...
Hence my recommendation is for others that call this a hobby.....run that conduit during build phase!!

btw zuluwalker I now remember seeing your wides on hinges, ingenious!

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post #189 of 893 Old 03-26-2013, 12:14 PM
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Let me pick everyones brain on something.

As mentioned earlier, I am in the process of building some SEOS speakers. I ended up picking up some additional TD6 drivers that I was going to use in a bipolar setup to replace my Axiom surrounds. I'm now thinking of leaving my QS8's alone and building a dual TD6 setup to be used as wides.

Do you think I'd realize a bigger benefit from upgrading my surrounds to a horn setup, or adding wides to the new SEOS front stage? I know it's a subjective, but I'd love to hear others opinions.

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post #190 of 893 Old 03-26-2013, 01:10 PM
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Yes, I hear all the time "Whoa what big speakers you have!" 

Except for my kids who always want to krank up the volume they love it smile.gif
Then you reply, "Better to deafen you with my dear."
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post #191 of 893 Old 03-27-2013, 10:34 AM
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Let me pick everyones brain on something.

As mentioned earlier, I am in the process of building some SEOS speakers. I ended up picking up some additional TD6 drivers that I was going to use in a bipolar setup to replace my Axiom surrounds. I'm now thinking of leaving my QS8's alone and building a dual TD6 setup to be used as wides.

Do you think I'd realize a bigger benefit from upgrading my surrounds to a horn setup, or adding wides to the new SEOS front stage? I know it's a subjective, but I'd love to hear others opinions.

Hey bass,

Only my personal opinion but I was worried about how my energy c-series speakers (cr-10 sides, c-100 rears) were going to integrate and sound after replacing my front sound stage with seos tempests. So far I not felt like I have any overwhelming immediate need to upgrade them, movies sound great with the seos up front and the surrounds are keeping up fine. I know that I can improve surrounds eventually and will be able to probably notice better detail when I do. But for me I will probably build seos wides and maybe even heights first. It sounds like the qs8s are pretty good surrounds, definitely better than my energys so I would say go for the seos wides.


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post #192 of 893 Old 03-27-2013, 06:54 PM
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Hey bass,

Only my personal opinion but I was worried about how my energy c-series speakers (cr-10 sides, c-100 rears) were going to integrate and sound after replacing my front sound stage with seos tempests. So far I not felt like I have any overwhelming immediate need to upgrade them, movies sound great with the seos up front and the surrounds are keeping up fine. I know that I can improve surrounds eventually and will be able to probably notice better detail when I do. But for me I will probably build seos wides and maybe even heights first. It sounds like the qs8s are pretty good surrounds, definitely better than my energys so I would say go for the seos wides.

Thanks. That is kind of the way I'm leaning right now. I have QS8's for my heights right now and really like them. I know they recommend direct radiating there, but I prefer the diffuse quadpolar design.

I'm going to be one pair of TD6's short for heights at the moment, which isn't a huge deal. I have a spare pair of 4550's so I can always add them down the road. Well technically I could do heights as well, but I don't think a single TD6 will be enough for the wides, so I'll probably double them up and do two TD6's mated up to a single 4550 per side. smile.gif

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post #193 of 893 Old 03-31-2013, 11:21 AM
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I recently saw an interview with Fred Maher of DTS. In the video many topics regarding Neo: are covered in the second half, starting after 30 min. The first bit is long and slow, more of a chat between two people caught on camera. If you enjoy that bit, I am happy for you. But with relating to the thread topic at hand, the second half is pretty cool.

At 34 min into the interview, Fred directly addresses the placement of 11.1, and within the minute lays out how DTS envisions the placement of heights. It was not what I expected, and not what I have done. But I now plan to switch up my heights to comply.

34 minutes in to hear the layout for 11.1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hI_Y0d0PjE
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post #194 of 893 Old 03-31-2013, 12:28 PM
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Are you referring to the 5.1 + voice of god speaker? BTW, that is the same as the Auro-3D 13.1 setup.

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post #195 of 893 Old 04-03-2013, 12:58 PM
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hey guys. Im about to order the Denon 4520 for 11.2. Since its only a 9.2 channel powered receiver what do you guys usually use to power the last two channels?

can you pick which of the speakers goes on the other amp?

Does the quality of the amp matter?

can i use an old receiver I have as an amp?


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post #196 of 893 Old 04-03-2013, 02:25 PM
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^^^^ You can use an old receiver in bypass mode for the additional amp channels or buy an inexpensive 3-channel amp for your L/C/R speakers and use the assignable amp channels in your Denon for Heights, Wides, Sides & Rears.

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post #197 of 893 Old 04-04-2013, 12:07 PM
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I would love a dedicated room with 15 foot wide screen and 24 speakers :)


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post #198 of 893 Old 04-04-2013, 01:24 PM
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I would love a dedicated room with 15 foot wide screen and 24 speakers smile.gif

+1

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post #199 of 893 Old 04-04-2013, 01:44 PM
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I would love a dedicated room with 15 foot wide screen and 24 speakers smile.gif

Think BIGGER! biggrin.gif

From a Thursday, April 04, 2013, CDRinfo com article (link):
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"NHK will present the latest developments in television technology at the NAB 2013 show, held in Las Vegas from April 8 to 11.

Super Hi-VISION (SHV -8K Ultra HDTV) is a future broadcasting medium and NHK is playing a leading role in promoting the development of this technology. SHV offers viewers an extremely vivid viewing experience with its ultra high-definition image of 33 million pixels, which is 16 times that of the current Hi-Vision (HDTV), and 22.2 multichannel 3D sound system. In addition to television broadcasting, SHV is expected to be applied in a wide variety of other fields, such as sports events, concerts and movies.

The NHK booth will include a variety of SHV equipment including a home theater with a 300-inch screen, a 120Hz image sensor for SHV, which enables high-definition filming of fast-moving images, a single-chip SHV camera (weighing about 5kg) and a SHV sound system (22.2 multichannel sound system). There will also be a presentation of a terrestrial transmission experiment of SHV, the first demonstration of its kind in North America."

Actually, I'm not sure many people would need a home theater with 84 seats!
eek.gifcool.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #200 of 893 Old 04-04-2013, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundChex View PostThink BIGGER! biggrin.gif

From a Thursday, April 04, 2013, CDRinfo com article (link):

Actually, I'm not sure many people would need a home theater with 84 seats! eek.gifcool.gifbiggrin.gif
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6 Seats is all I need 


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post #201 of 893 Old 04-04-2013, 04:42 PM
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6 Seats is all I need 

such a humble move wink.gif

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post #202 of 893 Old 04-04-2013, 09:29 PM
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6 Seats is all I need 

6, I only need 1. biggrin.gif

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post #203 of 893 Old 04-04-2013, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

6 Seats is all I need 

6, I only need 1. biggrin.gif

Someone has already conceptualized the answer to that problem . . . and included a 'bonus' separate 2.0 system! biggrin.gif


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post #204 of 893 Old 04-05-2013, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by SoundChex View PostSomeone has already conceptualized the answer to that problem . . . and included a 'bonus' separate 2.0 system! biggrin.gif


_

I got the Chair and 9 of those speakers


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post #205 of 893 Old 04-14-2013, 12:31 PM
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^^^^ You can use an old receiver in bypass mode for the additional amp channels or buy an inexpensive 3-channel amp for your L/C/R speakers and use the assignable amp channels in your Denon for Heights, Wides, Sides & Rears.

Is it not a waste to have a high quality receiver and then use a cheap one for the main speakers? Is there a quality difference in the sound? Will I notice the difference?


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post #206 of 893 Old 04-14-2013, 01:26 PM
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He wrote cheap, not bad.

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post #207 of 893 Old 04-14-2013, 03:30 PM
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I get that but i was still wondering if you would notice a difference, and if you wouldnt want the main three speakers on the receiver? I have a Pioneer receiver, 1120k I believe, that is extra that Id like to use for the extra channels.


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post #208 of 893 Old 04-14-2013, 09:05 PM
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Is it not a waste to have a high quality receiver and then use a cheap one for the main speakers?
The "inexpensive 3-channel amp" I linked to is a dual-differential design that is more powerful than the amps built into the high quality receiver being discussed (Denon AVR-4520), and almost twice the power of your Pioneer receiver.

The other option I mentioned was using an old receiver in bypass mode (i.e., using only its amps) to power the "additional channels" (e.g., heights), which don't require as much power as the mains.

Sanjay
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post #209 of 893 Old 04-15-2013, 08:25 AM
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I just want to update my observation on the topic.

I started off to use DSX at first. Thought it's.....OK (at best).

Then I was using PLIIz for awhile, it's a very subtle different with or without it in most movies. It only made some noticeable difference when you are watching the "right scenes", e.g. raining (but still not ALL raining scenes), Master&Command's famous demo scene where sailors walking/running on the upper deck, etc. If nobody tells me, I probably couldn't tell a difference or miss it if it's turn on or off.

I switched to use Neo:X lately. I think I like it a little more than PLIIz. I did some A/B test with a couple "coming from above scenes" on most Demo discs from this forum between the two. Scenes like the above mentioned Master&Command, Jurassic Park (power out, T-rex got out), etc.

Here's what I think.....

Audssey DSX:
I personally don't really care for it and feel like it "rob" other channels (surrounds) to get you the scene of height sound. And it sometimes make the sound kinda weird, in my word, fake/non natural sound especially when you are watching like ESPN or similar channels. If I have to choose either to turn DSX on or no Height channel sound effect, I'd rather have it Off and let my height speakers collecting dust.

DD PLIIz:
I feel like PLIIz's process put the height/above sound channels a bit more coming from the front stage/forward. You still can tell at certain scenes that the sound is above your head. But it's still "shifted" the sound a bit like above & in front of you rather than directly above you, if you know what I'm saying. On & Off difference is subtle, but you certain can tell especially doing a A/B comparison. I will leave it On the whole time and fine with it. No artificial, unnatural sounding at all.

DTS Neo:X:
I think I like it the most out of the three, so far. From what DTS said in the earlier posted interview, it also use the rear channels in combine of the front height channels to give you the directly above your head sound stage. And I believe it. The above/on top sound sounds more..... directly above you. Like rain, or people running/walking on the above floor, sounds like it's coming right on top of you or could even be, on top but behind you, or on top but you can tell it's more to your left/right than directly above. Versus PLIIz sound a little bit more "on top but slightly in front" of you.

p.s. I only use the 4520Ci to power the height channel speakers while using the Emotivas to power the rest.

~ Gary

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post #210 of 893 Old 04-15-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View PostI just want to update my observation on the topic.

I started off to use DSX at first. Thought it's.....OK (at best).  Then I was using PLIIz for awhile, it's a very subtle different with or without it in most movies. It only made some noticeable difference when you are watching the "right scenes", e.g. raining (but still not ALL raining scenes), Master&Command's famous demo scene where sailors walking/running on the upper deck, etc. If nobody tells me, I probably couldn't tell a difference or miss it if it's turn on or off.  I switched to use Neo:X lately. I think I like it a little more than PLIIz. I did some A/B test with a couple "coming from above scenes" on most Demo discs from this forum between the two. Scenes like the above mentioned Master&Command, Jurassic Park (power out, T-rex got out), etc.

Here's what I think.....

Audssey DSX:
I personally don't really care for it and feel like it "rob" other channels (surrounds) to get you the scene of height sound. And it sometimes make the sound kinda weird, in my word, fake/non natural sound especially when you are watching like ESPN or similar channels. If I have to choose either to turn DSX on or no Height channel sound effect, I'd rather have it Off and let my height speakers collecting dust.

DD PLIIz:
I feel like PLIIz's process put the height/above sound channels a bit more coming from the front stage/forward. You still can tell at certain scenes that the sound is above your head. But it's still "shifted" the sound a bit like above & in front of you rather than directly above you, if you know what I'm saying. On & Off difference is subtle, but you certain can tell especially doing a A/B comparison. I will leave it On the whole time and fine with it. No artificial, unnatural sounding at all.

DTS Neo:X:
I think I like it the most out of the three, so far. From what DTS said in the earlier posted interview, it also use the rear channels in combine of the front height channels to give you the directly above your head sound stage. And I believe it. The above/on top sound sounds more..... directly above you. Like rain, or people running/walking on the above floor, sounds like it's coming right on top of you or could even be, on top but behind you, or on top but you can tell it's more to your left/right than directly above. Versus PLIIz sound a little bit more "on top but slightly in front" of you.

p.s. I only use the 4520Ci to power the height channel speakers while using the Emotivas to power the rest.

Thank your for your feedback, unfortunately the Classé SSP-800 doesn't have any of those and they probably won't upgrade the software either :(

 

Bu it's good to know that DTS NeoX sounds good


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