The Larch Theater (a not-a-19.6-system) - Page 23 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 19Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #661 of 688 Old 12-18-2014, 10:15 PM
Senior Member
 
just jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 27
How about one of the anti vibration clips? Make a bracket to hold the speaker and attach it to the clip after it is screwed to one of the 2x2's. You'd be able to rotate it on the single screw and relocate it leaving only a small screw hole that would be easily filled. The screw with a washer would clamp the rubber grommet to the wood, isolating the speaker.

PS Season's greetings and happy New Years!

Winterfell theatre build - working title
just jim is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #662 of 688 Old 12-18-2014, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
I may end up moving them 50 times, that would leave 200 holes... so I'm definitely looking for a clamp of sorts that can be move without leaving marks worse than paint scratch.

Have found something, need to find out if it can take the speaker weight (which shouldn't be a lot, it's a tiny one).

--

Hooked up both the front highs and the front wides and played some stereo music on them two and two to find out if my placements agreed with the speakers and I must say it worked beyond expectation. Sonically I did notice that they are quite a bit brighter than my main brand, so they could really need some serious EQing later on for a closer timbre match.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year in return!

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #663 of 688 Old 12-19-2014, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
4 ceiling speakers now temporarily mounted in the ceiling. Time to don the mad scientist cap and try out the format I dreamed up...
just jim likes this.

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #664 of 688 Old 12-20-2014, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
First a couple of old pics that never made it online at the time... this is from adding a couple of polyether mattresses to the dampening walls

Here's how it looks like


And this is how three of them looks like put up (and you get a new pic of the speakers too):


The stand that the center SHOULD be on if it were not fot the non-AT screen is on the right. The 'black ghost' is and Wijk Wizard Jr. Signature spreaker on it's original stand. No use for them currently.

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #665 of 688 Old 12-20-2014, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Here's what I made up to temporarily hold the ceiling speakers:


and this is all four put up for a test run:

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #666 of 688 Old 12-20-2014, 11:52 PM
Senior Member
 
just jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 27
If you were in Canada, you'd be using Duct tape instead of the blue straps!

Winterfell theatre build - working title
just jim is offline  
post #667 of 688 Old 12-21-2014, 02:27 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by just jim View Post
If you were in Canada, you'd be using Duct tape instead of the blue straps!
I have considered it, but I felt it might lead to problems later when I have to repaint them - if there's any tape residue.

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #668 of 688 Old 12-21-2014, 10:58 AM
Senior Member
 
just jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 27
you're no fun! That's what varsol is for.

Winterfell theatre build - working title
just jim is offline  
post #669 of 688 Old 12-21-2014, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by just jim View Post
you're no fun! That's what varsol is for.
Never heard of.

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #670 of 688 Old 12-21-2014, 02:35 PM
Senior Member
 
just jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 27
varsol is mineral thinners/paint thinner

Winterfell theatre build - working title
just jim is offline  
post #671 of 688 Old 12-22-2014, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by just jim View Post
varsol is mineral thinners/paint thinner
And that would take just the glue leftovers and not the paint below?

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #672 of 688 Old 12-22-2014, 12:44 PM
Senior Member
 
just jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Yes, unless the paint is oil or the new hybrid and is fresh. Methyl Hydrate alcohol will actually soften oil paint (I use it for stripping antique hardware). Acetone would take off the residue, but you'd have to test it on the paint to see if it attacks it.

When in doubt, put a little on a cloth and rub somewhere inconspicuous. If colour comes off, it is dissolving the surface material, paint or what ever.

Winterfell theatre build - working title
just jim is offline  
post #673 of 688 Old 12-23-2014, 01:57 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Not sure, but I think it's car paint.

In any case, I've moved them five times so far and it seems to work quite well this way.

Atmos has made it easy for themselves to have separate speakers - using four as a single VoG requires a lot of measuring. Max distance difference between any two must not exceed five feet(=milliseconds). When I tried the back two narrower, the front one on the diagonal (relative to back seat) was starting to get noticed and the difference then was 1.5 feet too long. So the back pair went back out and I also moved the front pair slightly backwards.

The Nightlord Extended Surround does not seem to break the overhead effect in Master and Commander and it do seem to fill out the soundspace - it's not the "ring of sound" when listening with eyes closed, it's more indeterminate.

I do need more/cleaner power to them, but I have channels left to utilize, just need to draw cables properly.

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #674 of 688 Old 12-24-2014, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Have drawn longer cables to the rack now and am using the same Marantz 5-channel amp as for the rest of the surrounds. Pushing it a bit with a three ohm load, but it's very little sound asked of it to amplify. (If you have the possibilty, try listening to just the surrounds sometime, it's amazing how little sound they actually output...)

Have more work todo with signal cables and with a bit of luck some buzz might go away, but I have it reduced to just noticable standing up near the ceiling speakers.

Currently I'm just adding the common signal to the VoGs without removing it from the sides. I will try that too, but it might be too aggressive steering.

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #675 of 688 Old 01-05-2015, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Fully happy with my current setup for my own VoG setup.

Have done some quick measurents to see where they ended up in the Atmos world, and (it's of course varying depending on how much the MLP-seat is reclined) it ends up at 20 degrees ahead and 30 behind. Thus in the (Denon) Atmos diagram, my front two at 70 degrees ends up as Top Middle and the rear two are just a fraction ahead of Top Rear positioning at 120.

They are (will be) quite decently in line with the fronts, especially when they get their proper placement once I have an AT screen.

( Perhaps I'll do some calculations to see if I can push them to 125 degrees and still stay within my max delay zone. )

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #676 of 688 Old 01-06-2015, 10:55 AM
Senior Member
 
just jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 27
19.6! So...just wondering...if you push the speaker count even more...so they completely cover your walls and ceiling, can you get away without any expensive sound treatments?

Winterfell theatre build - working title
just jim is offline  
post #677 of 688 Old 01-07-2015, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by just jim View Post
19.6! So...just wondering...if you push the speaker count even more...so they completely cover your walls and ceiling, can you get away without any expensive sound treatments?
One of the Dirac technologies is looking into that. Using speakers also to kill reflexes. So far I think it's mainly focused on car audio, but with enough speakers it may be applicable also to homes.


19.6 is the pre-atmos designation, guess it should be 13.6.6 today. All is not hooked up - I have no signals to feed front wides. But I have tried feeding the same signal to the front highs as for the Voice of God speakers. Can't say I've managed to hear any difference from it, though.

Channel-wise it's 7.2.1 that I'm using currently, of course.

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #678 of 688 Old 01-19-2015, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Managed to dislocate a dustcap on one of my Front Highs when giving them a workout. I don't know the exact age of these ScanSpeak 18W/8545, they appeared for this model 1997 so they could be that old by now. Re-glued them this weekend and will give them a couple of days to bond before giving them another go.

Last run I thought they were too apparent to the closer seat, so I would like to try introducing some dampening material for some angles to see if that can be countered in parts.

Under construction: the Larch theater

Last edited by Nightlord; 01-19-2015 at 06:01 AM.
Nightlord is offline  
post #679 of 688 Old 01-19-2015, 06:03 PM
Senior Member
 
just jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 27
So far you've shaken the decals off your light fixtures and blown the dust caps off some speakers...does the wife ever say, "Turn that down!"? ...could you hear her if she did?

Winterfell theatre build - working title
just jim is offline  
post #680 of 688 Old 01-19-2015, 06:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
blazar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,531
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked: 320
You are spending a lot of time sweating the subtle details of speaker location and angles. Honestly, having already done this, I'll tell you that you will barely notice one way or another. Mainly this is because your ears/brain simply cannot localize these sounds perfectly anyway. On top of that, you have no movie screen on your ceiling and therefore there is no "exact spot" the sounds have to emanate from. In other words there is no point of reference. Lastly, future processors will do "true atmos" and the system will accomodate for wherever your speakers are and whatever number you may have. That is literally the whole point of object oriented "3d" sound.

Just put in as many speakers as possible to cover as much of the walls and ceiling evenly as possible. That's really all it takes to do it right. Flush mount without worrying about the exact angle will more or less work fine, despite off axis issues.

Last edited by blazar; 01-19-2015 at 06:52 PM.
blazar is offline  
post #681 of 688 Old 01-20-2015, 01:53 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by just jim View Post
So far you've shaken the decals off your light fixtures and blown the dust caps off some speakers...does the wife ever say, "Turn that down!"? ...could you hear her if she did?
What did you say?

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #682 of 688 Old 01-20-2015, 02:14 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post
You are spending a lot of time sweating the subtle details of speaker location and angles. Honestly, having already done this, I'll tell you that you will barely notice one way or another. Mainly this is because your ears/brain simply cannot localize these sounds perfectly anyway. On top of that, you have no movie screen on your ceiling and therefore there is no "exact spot" the sounds have to emanate from. In other words there is no point of reference. Lastly, future processors will do "true atmos" and the system will accomodate for wherever your speakers are and whatever number you may have. That is literally the whole point of object oriented "3d" sound.

Just put in as many speakers as possible to cover as much of the walls and ceiling evenly as possible. That's really all it takes to do it right. Flush mount without worrying about the exact angle will more or less work fine, despite off axis issues.
Well... from having done what I have been doing, I can definitely say that when playing a mono signal to all ceiling speakers - there's definitely differences in experience from just moving them an inch or even less. So if they will be playing Auro-3D Voice of God channel at some point, I think the time is well spent. The less your brain needs to do to decode sounds, the more relaxed you will be listening. That's how it is with stereo, I expect nothing less to be true for multi-channel.

Most people on this site is "movie people", I'm primarily an audio (music) person with a secondary movie interest. My aim is that the reproduction is truthful to what is recorded on the media. The point of reference is on the media and therefore should sound as it comes from the exact same spot in my theater, in your theater, in Roger Dressler's theater and so on. And also in all seats. If it doesn't, then it's not very High Fidelity over it, is it?

I'm not conviced that the Atmos approach to three dimensional sound is the correct way to go. It may be the best way to get AN experience to people, but I think to get THE experience to people it will have to be more of a wavefield synthesis approach. But we have to go with what's available for sure...

BUT, with all things said - I do appreciate what you said. And I'm quite sure that once you're playing all channels at once and actually watch something that you have a good and practical point.

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #683 of 688 Old 01-22-2015, 12:52 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Seem to have caught a used DIY Seymour AV Center Stage XD screen for a very good price. Wider than I had planned and 16:9 format, so it's huge and I'll probably have to mask off quite a bit, but it'll certainly make it flexible. It's touch&go with the min distance for it, but I doubt it could be anything but an improvement over the one I have - and for acoustic transparency it seems to be about the best around. It'll become available sometime during spring when the guy rebuilds his room, have to drive quite a bit, so petrol would probably be 25% of the cost for it, but still way below what ordering it from the source would cost me.

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #684 of 688 Old 01-22-2015, 09:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
NickTheGreat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 1,937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked: 116
What a score! I only live about 45 minutes from their offices. Weird
NickTheGreat is offline  
post #685 of 688 Old 01-23-2015, 12:01 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post
What a score! I only live about 45 minutes from their offices. Weird
Thanks.

Fun. Been to visit?

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #686 of 688 Old 01-23-2015, 11:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
NickTheGreat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 1,937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlord View Post
Thanks.

Fun. Been to visit?
No but I did meet Chris Seymour at another members get together. Nice guy and incredibly knowledgeable.
NickTheGreat is offline  
post #687 of 688 Old 01-23-2015, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Not surprised. I have mailed a few questions to him the other year and got nice and good replies from him.

Same I must say about Chris K. @audyssey (and likewise Albert von Schweikert - but that must be getting close to twenty years ago now. yikes, time flies.... )

Another really nice guy which I actually met once was Eric Suh from NHT.

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
post #688 of 688 Old Today, 02:51 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Nightlord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southern Sweden
Posts: 2,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 426 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Got some measurements now. Approx 123" between the bolts the O-rings go around. Big m*****f*cker of a screen!

I will be able to (proj zoomrange willing) to use the full width for 2,35:1, but I think I will need some serious masking for 16:9 with regards to back row viewers.

Under construction: the Larch theater
Nightlord is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Dedicated Theater Design & Construction

Tags
carlsson , ino audio , nad 208 , rotel 1090



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off