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post #721 of 1036 Old 11-20-2013, 03:09 PM
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If you are referring to the one's I posted above, those are from Google Sketchup. If you are referring to the ones KNKKNK posted, those are on oft underutilized solid modeling process referred to as "The Real Thing."

biggrin.gif Sorry, couldn't resist!
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post #722 of 1036 Old 11-20-2013, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

One more minor update. In an effort to mitigate my investment (i.e. spend as little as possible!) on any equipment that has an HDMI connection, I was able to pick up on a brand new Sherbourn PT-7030 from another member for $575. I had one of those 40% off Emotiva cards waiting in the wings to get the Emotiva XMC-1 processor when it was released that I got when helping a neighbor upgrade his small system with an Emotiva UMC-1. He took the preamp and I took the card as part of our deal. Now that I bought the Sherbourn, I was able to unload the card for $250, bringing my net on the preamp down to just $325.

This preamp should get me by quite handily until all of the HDMI 2.0 hardware is released and the 4k signal transmission specification finalized. I just couldn't stomach forking out $2800+ for a Marantz 8801 knowing that it was already outdated before I bought it. I'll roll into a Marantz 8802? (or similar) when the time comes, but for now I'm happy to have a quality preamp in-hand at a reasonable price where I could probably recoup my investment when I go to sell it on.

EDIT: - Just received shipping notification from FedEx that my lighted poster box and marquee will be delivered today! Pics to follow....

Thanks for reminding me I have "SUCKER" stamped on my forehead! biggrin.gif
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post #723 of 1036 Old 11-20-2013, 06:40 PM
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Thanks for reminding me I have "SUCKER" stamped on my forehead! biggrin.gif

Marantz don't update their equipment line very often. I wouldn't be surprised if it is 2 years before we see a 8802. Buy when you are ready to use is my motto and don't worry about what next year will bring ... it will always be better smile.gif


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Thanks Moggie, I really appreciate your feedback and you raise excellent points.

To get the look of the veneer right between all of the different 4' or 8' long sections, I'll have to tape together all the veneer necessary to go from corner to corner for any given segment of the soffit. This would avoid an obvious difference in the veneer grain pattern at the butt joints (i.e. consistent veneer widths all the way around). The veneer would be applied to the assemblies in the vacuum press and trimmed to make sure the edges are flush.

Agreed. The good news is that you have chosen a wood with a fairly consistent grain which makes this doable.
Quote:
I am very concerned about having the wood glue oozing out on the edges as you pointed out. Is there any way to avoid this - like using less glue, putting glue only on the edge furthest away from the veneer, applying painter's tape to the facing of the veneer along the butt joints? I'm not sure what can be done to join the sections without getting the glue all over the visible parts.

Normally if you are using a vacuum press you will use regular wood glue. One way would be to wait until the glue is starting to set up but before it goes hard, remove the vacuum press, and use a razor blade to scrape away excess glue, then put the vacuum press back. Alternatively try a thin impact adhesive...? Might be worth getting some professional advice on this. What about from the place you purchased the veneer from?

Quote:
Cowger gave the suggestion of building assemblies and the more I thought about it, the more I convinced myself (probably only myself rolleyes.gif) to assemble the entire soffit as a single assembly. There were three reasons why this might make sense: 1. I would have full access to the backside of the soffit for blocking to screw, clamp, Kreg jig, etc. any two pieces together along the full joint. I couldn't do this if it was up in the air and trying to line up the butt joints, especially on the curved portions. 2. I didn't trust my own ability to get each piece installed square enough that all of the joints around of the perimeter would line up perfectly. 3. It would be very difficult if not impossible to get the doweling into position for the last pieces of each completed "square" since everything else would be locked down.

Like you, I'm just thinking aloud as nothing is set in stone at this point and everything is changeable.

If the soffit is not too heavy you might be ok. Remember that if you do this then you are assembling with the soffit below you and thus its going to be awkward to look underneath at the side you really care about. I'm sure you will work it out. I assembled in sections and just had my wife help hold the sections in place after carefully marking the ceiling I made the last couple of sections slightly oversized and slowly trimmed for a perfect fit. I think the last piece went from ceiling to trial fit about 15 times before I was happy.

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post #724 of 1036 Old 11-21-2013, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow guys, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to work up a rendering and a real-life mock-up!! Absolutely incredible!

JPA - that ribbing is a really interesting idea. I think if this wasn't for a theater I'd definitely entertain the thought of doing the moldings in polished Nickel as you proposed. However, I'm trying to limit the amount of "shiny stuff" I'll have in the theater and stay conscious about the spots I am putting reflective surfaces into the theater as not to distract the eye when watching a movie in a darkened room or create any kind of reflective hotspot in the room or worse yet....on the screen. I really like where your head is at, though, so I'll have to mull it over a bit more. I'm not quite sure how I'd accomplish curved moldings inexpensively. As the old adage goes, "Curves Cost"! smile.gif I'd probably have to rig up some ghetto steamer with PVC. Still, I like the look and it is something to consider.

Brad - your approach would definitely make the soffit install far less complicated and give me quite a bit of wiggle room to make things look right. When you made that, did you simply use a router bit in solid stock at set intervals to get that look or did you tack together several of the same molding? Were you proposing to apply the moldings around the curve longitudinally, essentially covering a rough carpentry up-curve or make that whole molding and install? Hopefully my question is clear. Reminds me a lot of the details in the Bacon Race Theater. Also reminds me of a molding I saw at the Paramount theater in Oakland:

IMG_9773_zps1abf35a7.jpg

Or an inverse of the Paramount's Nickel base molding:
IMG_9673_zpsf24168e2.jpg

I had also looked at the Snickers1's Merrimont Trace Theater soffit detail which is like the New York Art Deco Style Crown molding turned vertically. I kicked this to the curb, though, because I can't afford the soffit height and still do the backlit acrylic.

I have another hand drawing in-process that I'll try to get posted tonight. It is further resolution to the proposed mechanics of the construction - support, bracing, fixation, etc. Now is probably the time to show a couple of different options for my column design so whatever look is chosen for the soffit, it would be complimentary to the column.

EDIT - Added pics
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post #725 of 1036 Old 11-21-2013, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post


Brad - your approach would definitely make the soffit install far less complicated and give me quite a bit of wiggle room to make things look right. When you made that, did you simply use a router bit in solid stock at set intervals to get that look or did you tack together several of the same molding?

Tim, I just scabbed together some pieces from a stick of 3/4" quarter round I had...
photo DSC00709.jpg

I used a "double roll" where my wall panels met the bottom of my soffit last time and the assembly went together quite easily with a clean look.

photo soffit.jpg
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Were you proposing to apply the moldings around the curve longitudinally, essentially covering a rough carpentry up-curve or make that whole molding and install? Hopefully my question is clear. Reminds me a lot of the details in the Bacon Race Theater. Also reminds me of a molding I saw at the Paramount theater in Oakland:

My intent was to try to eaisly replicate something close to the same "Feel" as the bottom of the paramount's soffit .

I realize this is a deviation from the rolled facia and puts the bottom of the soffit at a 45 instead of a radii, however the 1/4 and 1/2 rounds may give the illusion of more of a radii when looking up. Dunno..

My proposal was to just stack up over your rough soffit to create the facia and the ledge for your light box.. Easy from 3/4 stock.
The trims available in many species and is inexpensive, prefinish in subtle alternating tones if you like , change the number of rolls to the fit the size needed, you could expose nickel channel as desired.

photo ArtDecosoffit.jpg
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post #726 of 1036 Old 11-21-2013, 02:57 PM
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^^^ I like this!

Being from Alabama, I like chrome and nickel plating more than most, but I think KNKKNK's idea will look classy and also be much simpler to implement. I'm waiting anxiously to see what you decide biggrin.gif

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post #727 of 1036 Old 11-21-2013, 09:16 PM
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I just came across this thread and I'm loving it.

The coffered ceiling and nursery were awesome! Great ideas I've filed away for future use one day.
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post #728 of 1036 Old 11-22-2013, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Brad - Thanks for the additional photos and sketch. I like the design, but will have to see what I can do to get the required depth for reflected light as per Color Kinetics in the 3-sided Melamine box. I worked a bit more on my next round of near-scale hand drawings, but did not finish. I may not get to them until Sunday night, looking at my 'to-do" list for today and this weekend, but I'll do my best. I'll work up a couple of different scenarios using yours as a basis for one approach.

I went back to my previous post with the Paramount pictures and noticed I didn't make something clear - when I was talking about putting my own spin on the Paramount's soffit, I was only referring to the lighting in the soffit and not all the other details in the room - although I did like the alternative moldings on the underside as-pictured. I'll see what I can come up with and also get my column drawings out there so the look of the soffit and column can be complimentary to one another.


And thanks Blobula! I appreciate your comments! Glad to have you following along.
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post #729 of 1036 Old 11-22-2013, 11:06 AM
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And thanks Blobula! I appreciate your comments! Glad to have you following along.
It's a wild ride so hang on tight eek.gif
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post #730 of 1036 Old 11-23-2013, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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My new Sherbourn preamplifier was delivered today. I needed to open it to verify operation, so I thought I'd include a set of pictures showing the unboxing. It's really a quality piece and weighs almost 30 pounds!

















The preamp has two USB ports (one regular, one mini). Sherbourn includes a Bluetooth USB receiver along with the regular remote. The remote's design is not that great since most of the buttons are tiny and almost exactly the same size. The buttons are also not backlit which would make it difficult to operate in a dark theater.

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post #731 of 1036 Old 11-23-2013, 04:17 PM
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Looks sweet...should pair up nicely with the Sherbourn amps!
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post #732 of 1036 Old 11-24-2013, 08:36 AM
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Beautiful! Love the clean look of that front panel...
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post #733 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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No update except to say my weekend evaporated without getting to the soffit and column drawings. And the way it looks, I won't be getting to them for a week or two, given the Thanksgiving holiday and all of the family and friends we will have visiting over the next week.

I wish everyone a very Happy Thanksgiving!!
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post #734 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 05:43 AM
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That's what happened to my weekend as well. Thanksgiving is far more than a one-day affair when it's at your house. Grocery shopping yesterday, and the cooking starts tonight. I'm just going to try to enjoy it and let the unfinished projects float for a while; happy Thanksgiving to you!
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post #735 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 08:37 AM
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post #736 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 11:12 AM
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So time for a noob question! (I have a lot of those) It seems as if a pre-amp is just a more powerful receiver?
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post #737 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 12:29 PM
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Noob as well and It certainly looks like a reciever front to back that's for shure.
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post #738 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 12:42 PM
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So time for a noob question! (I have a lot of those) It seems as if a pre-amp is just a more powerful receiver?

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Noob as well and It certainly looks like a reciever front to back that's for shure.

Hi Guys - the short answer is that a preamp is a receiver without the amplifiers built in. It can do the decoding/signal processing etc. that a receiver does, but then passes the signal on to an external amplifier. This setup often results in better sound quality, as it narrows the number of tasks each piece of equipment must perform. Standalone amplifiers are generally very good at what they're intended to do...which is just amplify signal (and they often offer more power than the amps found inside receivers). In addition, the preamp doesn't have to worry about amplifying - this allows sensitive processing electronics to be the sole focus of the preamp unit. Finally, upgraditis hits quickly within this realm. smile.gif Preamp/receiver technology changes much faster than amplification technology. So you can upgrade your preamp without investing in new amplifiers, theoretically saving you some green. However, the world of separates (preamps and amps) is generally a pricier world than that of receivers, so...

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post #739 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 12:45 PM
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A preamp is similar to a receiver except that it has no onboard power for driving speakers. The preamp does all the processing duties and sends the signal to external amplifiers which power the speakers.
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post #740 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 12:45 PM
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Benji - that is probably the best, most succinct explanation I've heard so far. That's what I gathered from my research but it's nice to hear this kind of summary. I have been leaning towards just getting a receiver so far just because my budget has been limited and did notice the price differences!
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post #741 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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So time for a noob question! (I have a lot of those) It seems as if a pre-amp is just a more powerful receiver?

Hi Jeff. Ask as many questions as you need!

A home theater receiver has all the surround sound processing, video processing and AV switching features built into the unit in addition to the power amplification for all the speakers. A preamp has everything a receiver has EXCEPT power amplification for all the speakers. They do this because it removes a large and potentially noisy (from an acoustic perspective) power supply used to power the speakers from the pre-amplification (signal) processing hardware and puts it in a completely separate component. This is also known as "separates" - where the processing and amplification are in separate chassis.

Each speaker has its own output on the back of the preamp (this one has both balanced and unbalanced) that run to the amplifier.

Make sense?


EDIT - I see above that we were all responding simultaneously! biggrin.gif
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post #742 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 12:55 PM
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TMcG - Thanks, that does. Now what is the difference between balanced & unbalanced?
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post #743 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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TMcG - Thanks, that does. Now what is the difference between balanced & unbalanced?

The real short answer is that the balanced XLR connection is the highest quality way to transfer signals between audio components.

The slightly longer explanation is that an unbalanced cable has the entire signal on the center conductor (+) and uses the shield as the ground reference (-). If any interference or distortion gets through the cable's shield, it becomes part of the signal. In a balanced cable there are three pins - Pin one is used as the ground reference, Pin 2 is the audio signal and Pin 3 is the audio signal but with the voltage inverted. For example if the signal output voltage of pin 2 is (+)1.5 volts, the signal output of pin 3 is (-)1.5 volts. The advantage of the balanced system is any signal common to both the positive and negative conductors is rejected. Anything different is considered the signal. Any noise entering the cable will be rejected and leave you with only the original signal.

Although highly technical, this link does a great job at explaining the differences: http://www.atlascables.com/right-connection.html

If you prefer a video explanation, these two videos are very good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo5HhfIUSP0 AND http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQtMFsw_3Hg
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post #744 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 02:10 PM
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Cool - thanks! So great, now you got me leaning towards pre-amp/amp route! (i.e. more $)
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post #745 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 02:29 PM
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You can wade into separates by buying a receiver with pre-outs - adding a separate amp at your leisure. It seems from my shopping that most pre/pros have better options for manual calibration built in. Also, by getting the signals separated like this, it affords you the opportunity to insert dedicated signal shaping hardware in between (like a miniDSP). Using something like that with just an AVR is often impossible.
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post #746 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 03:41 PM
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One additional tidbit about receiver vs amp/preamp. The amplifier creates lots of heat. Circuitry doesn't like heat. If you look inside a $500 receiver or a $10,000 receiver, they are packed with boards and such and ventilation is generally insufficient. So, it is always better to keep the amplifier section away from the processors. My AV repair guy told me, "Receivers are built to self-destruct". His advice was to sink as much money as you can into amplifiers because the technology is really not going to change much; it is analogue, will always be analogue, buy quality. The preamp section is where the ever-evolving technology is. Like buying a unit with HDMI 1.4 when things are already moving to HDMI 2.0. So, pay what you need to, knowing that the updated version is already on the boat coming your way!

You probably didn't have any time because you were answering all those questions... biggrin.gif Sorry!
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post #747 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 03:13 AM
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Thanks everyone for taking the time to explain this Honestly thought I would be fine with a reciever in the beginning, but best plan for a more realistic set up for my basement space in the future! Think I am leaning toward what 'just Jim' said about reciever /amp option as well to future proof the tech. but who knows by the time comes. Will certainly do more homework on the subject.
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post #748 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 11:23 PM
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preamp/amp combination option. biggrin.gif

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post #749 of 1036 Old 12-21-2013, 06:26 PM
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Hello??????? Anyone home? We need updates man!

Regards,

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post #750 of 1036 Old 12-24-2013, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey RT. Yes, there have been plenty of updates that I have not been able to get to with my work and travel schedule. Stay tuned until after the first week of the new year.

Until then, Mrs. TMcG, Baby TMcG and me wish you all a very Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

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