The Stonewater Cinema Build Thread - Page 38 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1111 of 1135 Old 12-31-2014, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Looks good!

BTW, what happened to practice what you preach? Blue ceiling? Not black?

Definitely will be a theater with a touch of class............

NOW MOAR BUILDING!!!!!!
lol I like that theatre sign with all the cross outs. I need me one of those. I'm just as bad. I was justing reading about the DTS codec. So help me if I have to move conduits again I'm just giving up! At least my bed audio is ear height now so maybe I can add in DTS if they don't pull some crazy speaker placement spots.

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post #1112 of 1135 Old 01-08-2015, 05:40 AM
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[/QUOTE]

I love the direction this is headed in! I particularly like the wood walls with the large panels on them. But I love the soffit detail too. This theater will throw napalm in the faces of the "what's taking so long?" crowd when it's all done! One you add the art deco accents, this is going to be beyond bonkers!!! (coincidentally, Bonkers is a feline cartoon police officer from my youth)!
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post #1113 of 1135 Old 01-11-2015, 09:41 AM
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TMcG,

Went thru your whole build thread a few weeks ago and have been checking in on the progress because I too like the Art Deco look, keep up the good work, I really like the latest rendering.

The reason for my post is I was going thru craigslist looking for any deals like I'm sure most of us do and searched theater seats, take a look at these vintage Art Deco theater seats that came up. Obviously you would never use these as your theater seats but maybe a lobby/entrance decoration if that is in your plan. Location is outside Tulsa so not close to you but might ship since you can't beat the price.

Have no idea how rare these are, just thought you might be interested because the cast iron side piece reminded me of a few things you have posted.

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/atq/4834878843.html
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post #1114 of 1135 Old 01-11-2015, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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TMcG,

Went thru your whole build thread a few weeks ago and have been checking in on the progress because I too like the Art Deco look, keep up the good work, I really like the latest rendering.

The reason for my post is I was going thru craigslist looking for any deals like I'm sure most of us do and searched theater seats, take a look at these vintage Art Deco theater seats that came up.

Have no idea how rare these are, just thought you might be interested because the cast iron side piece reminded me of a few things you have posted.
Thanks for checking in and following along. And thanks for the link to those theater seats! I completely agree that things like this are perfect candidates to be refurbished and repurposed. Plus it seems like a bargain compared to most of the authentic Art Deco things I've seen which go for a fortune. I e-mailed the guy with a handful of questions, so I'll see what he comes back with.

I had saved a few photos of theater seat sides and this one from the Landis Theater in Vineland, NJ caught my eye. Thought you might like to see it. I was considering a modification of the design and filling the inset with some leftover Onyx scraps from the columns and then backlighting with the RGB LEDs.

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post #1115 of 1135 Old 01-12-2015, 04:14 PM
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I like that Tim.
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post #1116 of 1135 Old 01-12-2015, 06:00 PM
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Isn't it usually dark in a home theater? 😉
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post #1117 of 1135 Old 01-12-2015, 06:21 PM
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Isn't it usually dark in a home theater? 😉
Dark, but with around 800 stars.
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post #1118 of 1135 Old 01-17-2015, 02:11 PM
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Holy shnikees!

Eight Uxl's.........two Si-24's and what.........Four P-10's? My oh my.............you make Popalock look like an infant! I wanna hear/visit this one!
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post #1119 of 1135 Old 01-24-2015, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Holy shnikees!

Eight Uxl's.........two Si-24's and what.........Four P-10's? My oh my.............you make Popalock look like an infant! I wanna hear/visit this one!
Just 3 P10s. Popalock had 16 18" drivers so I'm a very long way from dethroning the king!
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post #1120 of 1135 Old 01-24-2015, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Holy shnikees!

Eight Uxl's.........two Si-24's and what.........Four P-10's? My oh my.............you make Popalock look like an infant! I wanna hear/visit this one!
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Just 3 P10s. Popalock had 16 18" drivers so I'm a very long way from dethroning the king!
Question for both of you guys: once the recommended and balancing subs have been tweaked to an ideal response, is there a point of diminishing returns when it comes to drivers?

I ask because after I implement and tweak my first six subs, my history of home theater ownership tells me that I'll probably want to add more (the way doublewing did)---but is adding to the "spec'd' subs worth the effort and investment?
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post #1121 of 1135 Old 01-25-2015, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Question for both of you guys: once the recommended and balancing subs have been tweaked to an ideal response, is there a point of diminishing returns when it comes to drivers?
Absolutely. Simply put, more drivers (displacement) makes the job of achieving flat FR well-below 20Hz easier and can smooth out / eliminate the room modes at the MLP. Todd Welti of Harman wrote a white paper and concluded that you only need 4 subs at most before you start reaching diminishing returns.....a conclusion I am sure many here on the Forum would refute with voracity.

For this theater I was going with one of the three recommended positions by placing subs at the thirds of the room at the front and rear walls. My room doesn't allow for placement in the four corners or placement along the midpoints of the four walls. Only at the thirds of the front and rear walls do I have sufficient room to recess the subs. As of now each SI HS24 will go in a 15"D x 30"W x 78" H box in the front baffle wall and the four UXL-18s will go into a two separate 2-driver arrays (with each driver in a separate box) at the rear of the room. One Procella P10 will be to the right of the front row of seating and another to the left of the rear row of seating. The third P10 will be in the center of the back wall behind the seating.

I was considering backing out of these last 4 UXLs and giving the next guys in line a chance of ownership. I was going to move the rears up to two separate 4-driver arrays, but it's probably better that I just leave the room to add this capability later and live with what I have for now. Wait, did I just say that I had enough LFE???
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post #1122 of 1135 Old 01-25-2015, 05:42 AM
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Definetly diminishing returns. Let's say you have one 18" driver, and you add a second identical one with same watts- you gain +6db. Nice.

Now let's say you want another +6db, so this time you need to add 2 more. You need to double it. Now you have 4 subs, and another +6db. Nice. Still worth it.

Let's say you are addicted and you want another +6db, now you must add (4) more. But you get the SPL. Nice. Possibly still worth it.

Next step is add (8) more for 16 total - Then 16 more for 32 total. It starts getting silly.

If you have 6 or 8 subs already, adding one or two more doesn't do that much. It's like only1 or 2db.

If you have weak subs or small subs then adding a more powerful or bigger one can make more difference, I was just assuming you add the same things. In Tim case for example, he had some UXL 18" drivers, which are nice subs. But adding those two 24" will still make a difference because output wise those 24" are like 2.3 UXL drivers each. So it's like adding 5 more .... Which is rather noticeable.

Mark is using the same 24" woofer in his new design I think. Because Nick is selling a lot of OEM on those is the primary reason the price increased to 1599$ each on the drivers, even though you can routinely buy them cheaper. I think SI just wants to let's the oem customers charge high prices using them without making it look bad, or make it justifiable.

You'll be able to add more subs, but you might want to try to cut cost with some DIY. Otherwise it's gonna get silly expensive. It might not be worth it depending on costs.
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post #1123 of 1135 Old 01-25-2015, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Just 3 P10s. Popalock had 16 18" drivers so I'm a very long way from dethroning the king!
You need to re-evaluate.

Popalock had 16 HT18's that displace 5.3L Vd per for a total of 84.8 liters.

Your two HS24's displace 15.3L per and the eight UXL's 7L per. I don't know which "dual 10” long excursion Italian-made pro woofers" the P10's use, but they are just gravy on top of the 86.6 liters the other ten displace...how does that crown look perched atop your head?
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post #1124 of 1135 Old 01-25-2015, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post
Question for both of you guys: once the recommended and balancing subs have been tweaked to an ideal response, is there a point of diminishing returns when it comes to drivers?

I ask because after I implement and tweak my first six subs, my history of home theater ownership tells me that I'll probably want to add more (the way doublewing did)---but is adding to the "spec'd' subs worth the effort and investment?
I started out with one S2 trying to figure out if more was needed........and the answer was yes! Watching events in DIY forum convined me building my own subs was a better way, more cost effective way to deal with ULF!!! Glad I did since across seat to seat variation is only 1-2 db's across 8-100 Hz at any one time. Smooth response is an understatement. Becoming proficient with eq did help.....

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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Absolutely. Simply put, more drivers (displacement) makes the job of achieving flat FR well-below 20Hz easier and can smooth out / eliminate the room modes at the MLP. Todd Welti of Harman wrote a white paper and concluded that you only need 4 subs at most before you start reaching diminishing returns.....a conclusion I am sure many here on the Forum would refute with voracity.

For this theater I was going with one of the three recommended positions by placing subs at the thirds of the room at the front and rear walls. My room doesn't allow for placement in the four corners or placement along the midpoints of the four walls. Only at the thirds of the front and rear walls do I have sufficient room to recess the subs. As of now each SI HS24 will go in a 15"D x 30"W x 78" H box in the front baffle wall and the four UXL-18s will go into a two separate 2-driver arrays (with each driver in a separate box) at the rear of the room. One Procella P10 will be to the right of the front row of seating and another to the left of the rear row of seating. The third P10 will be in the center of the back wall behind the seating.

I was considering backing out of these last 4 UXLs and giving the next guys in line a chance of ownership. I was going to move the rears up to two separate 4-driver arrays, but it's probably better that I just leave the room to add this capability later and live with what I have for now. Wait, did I just say that I had enough LFE???

I concurr............also makes ULF system work effortlessly.

I was honestly thinking four more UXL's but my wife put a stop to it. She thought adding four more subs was ludicrious.........her comment, "Room already shakes like an earthquake.......you are NOT BUILDING ANY MORE SUBS!!!" Emphasis on the later..............

Well, I do agree with her..........I have great room response.....why muck it up?

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You need to re-evaluate.

Popalock had 16 HT18's that displace 5.3L Vd per for a total of 84.8 liters.

Your two HS24's displace 15.3L per and the eight UXL's 7L per. I don't know which "dual 10” long excursion Italian-made pro woofers" the P10's use, but they are just gravy on top of the 86.6 liters the other ten displace...how does that crown look perched atop your head?










I completely agree...........TMcG is going to be the new displacement master! We're not worthy!
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post #1125 of 1135 Old 01-25-2015, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron Smith View Post
You need to re-evaluate.

Popalock had 16 HT18's that displace 5.3L Vd per for a total of 84.8 liters.

Your two HS24's displace 15.3L per and the eight UXL's 7L per. I don't know which "dual 10” long excursion Italian-made pro woofers" the P10's use, but they are just gravy on top of the 86.6 liters the other ten displace...how does that crown look perched atop your head?
Well explained.

The $159 shipped SI 18" is not a UXL. And a UXL isn't a 24". Each 24 is like (4) SI 18 subs. Each UXL is like 2. So you are pretty much even with Austin in terms of SPL and bass. With the Procella subs you win. Nice huh.

But I think Austin went to 32 before he shipped off to the Middle East. He brought a 24" with him over there and ported it, so he's still laying down the bass at least. His 18's are in storage. I will say for sure your speakers probably beat his BOSE jewel cubes ...haha.

But when my theater starts up I'll be coming for ya... I'm gonna go extra, extra silly.
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post #1126 of 1135 Old 01-25-2015, 05:45 PM
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Well explained.

The $159 shipped SI 18" is not a UXL. And a UXL isn't a 24". Each 24 is like (4) SI 18 subs. Each UXL is like 2. So you are pretty much even with Austin in terms of SPL and bass. With the Procella subs you win. Nice huh.

But I think Austin went to 32 before he shipped off to the Middle East. He brought a 24" with him over there and ported it, so he's still laying down the bass at least. His 18's are in storage. I will say for sure your speakers probably beat his BOSE jewel cubes ...haha.

But when my theater starts up I'll be coming for ya... I'm gonna go extra, extra silly.

+1

















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post #1127 of 1135 Old 01-25-2015, 06:23 PM
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+1

I will drop a huge bomb here.. but I respect Tim's thread too much.

Too many patriot haters out there. What is it about everyone hating on the Patriots so much? The meme's making fun of Seattle are way funnier btw... I have about a million of them.

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post #1128 of 1135 Old 01-25-2015, 07:16 PM
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I will drop a huge bomb here.. but I respect Tim's thread too much.

Too many patriot haters out there. What is it about everyone hating on the Patriots so much? The meme's making fun of Seattle are way funnier btw... I have about a million of them.
Patriots beat my Rams in the super bowl in 2001 - that's why I'm bitter 😡
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post #1129 of 1135 Old 01-25-2015, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I will drop a huge bomb here.. but I respect Tim's thread too much.

Too many patriot haters out there. What is it about everyone hating on the Patriots so much? The meme's making fun of Seattle are way funnier btw... I have about a million of them.

I'm not a Patriots hater....

Actually, I like the Patriots due to Daughter being a fan. She actually took me to a couple games, which I enjoyed. Regarding game observations.......what I did notice, New England Patriots fans are passionate.........as they should be.

BTW, I'm a HUGE Pete Carroll supporter and have had the chance to sit down and talk football with him...........great guy, extremely knowledgable and cutting edge when motivating young Men.

So.............












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post #1130 of 1135 Old Yesterday, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I will drop a huge bomb here.. but I respect Tim's thread too much.

Too many patriot haters out there. What is it about everyone hating on the Patriots so much? The meme's making fun of Seattle are way funnier btw... I have about a million of them.

I also don't want to derail Tim's thread so hopefully this mild distraction will bring us a couple new pics!


Lifelong Cleveland fan here so I've got my own issues plus I'm more of a Belichick hater than Brady or Pats one, BUT the numbers don't lie:


http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal...dUI/story.html


Ok, this circumstantial evidence clearly isn't enough to indict them but surely it is one of those proverbial "things that may you go hmmm"?
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post #1131 of 1135 Old Yesterday, 06:47 AM
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A lot of stats are a bit off for the Patriots. It's not luck, or cheating, or coincidence. It's the greatest coach of all time doing his thing.

Just look at the playoffs for a second. Ravens won that day, they played better, had better talent, and won the game in the trenches on both sides of the ball. If it wasn't for the game plan to abandon the run completely, and the fact Bill did everything he could coaching wise to piece together whatever he had to work with including rolling out the Kitchen sink for the Edlemen TD throw, and the 4 and 6 man Oline confusion, Pats would have/should have lost. Ravens played great. They would have smashed any team normally, playing like that.

Game plan for Colts was right on. Patriots made it look easy on a team that thoroughly beat down the Broncos a week earlier, and beat some great teams including the Ravens and Steelers in second half year. Colts weren't as bad as the Patriots made them look. Bill coaching plan just took advantage of what Patriots do well, and Colts don't.

This entire deflate thing just pisses me off. So many haters. It's absolutely nothing. It's not an advantage of any kind, and the Patriots did nothing at all illegal. If this was any other team it would have blown over, but since its the Pats it's got extra legs.

GB packers are the biggest slapdick teams I've seen. The coaching staff should be ashamed. With all that talent, and that lead, that lead late in the game, no way should they have lost. Never. It's coaching. The coaches stood there and just watched as the game slipped away one improbable play after another. They never did anything worthwhile to gain control back, even though they had timeouts.

Difference between Peyton in his game vs Colts and Brady vs Ravens ? Coaching. both QB were under pressure. But Bill rolled out the kitchen sink, while Denver coaching staff stood on the sidelines and watch Peyton get abused.

Brady is just lucky to have played under Bill for his entire career. He would have never found the same success otherwise. Bill can win with anyone. Just watch when Brady retires, and he sticks around a year or two and proves it. He's the greatest coach of all time. Sure he sucks with reporters but that isn't his job. His job is coach the team and win games. He's the best at it. It's so easy to dislike him, or poke fun at him. But regardless of the haters he will still go down in history as the greatest football coach of all time. Just wait till Sunday... .
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post #1132 of 1135 Old Today, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Wouldn't it be funny if there were huge power outages in the Northeast caused by the storm and no one could watch the Pats play in the Super Bowl on Sunday night?
@doublewing11 .... I made it official yesterday and backed out of another 4 UXL-18 drivers. If your well-constructed house shakes the entire house with just four and then I have another 2 24"s and balancing subs on top of that, it's probably best if I actually get all this crap hooked up first and take a listen before ordering more. Plus, @popalock can keep the top spot among displacement royalty!
@jkasanic - There are no new theater pictures to post....and I would be embarrassed to post pictures as it sits today because I have reorganized things in there twice more at this point to fit all the stuff I needed to get out of my way before drywall, including the last of the supplies such as doors, moldings, primers, lighting, insulation, etc.

Hopefully the next 'pictures' I post will be completed renders of the room so I can get everyone's opinion and make changes.
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post #1133 of 1135 Old Today, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Wouldn't it be funny if there were huge power outages in the Northeast caused by the storm and no one could watch the Pats play in the Super Bowl on Sunday night?

@doublewing11 .... I made it official yesterday and backed out of another 4 UXL-18 drivers. If your entire house well-constructed house shakes with just four and then I have another 2 24"s and balancing subs on top of that, it's probably best if I actually get all this crap hooked up first and take a listen before ordering more. Plus, @popalock can keep the top spot among displacement royalty!

@jkasanic - There are no new theater pictures to post....and I would be embarrassed to post pictures as it sits today because I have reorganized things in there twice more at this point to fit all the stuff I needed to get out of my way before drywall, including the last of the supplies such as doors, moldings, primers, lighting, insulation, etc.

Hopefully the next 'pictures' I post will be completed renders of the room so I can get everyone's opinion and make changes.

Last edited by TMcG; Today at 07:39 AM.
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post #1134 of 1135 Old Today, 07:40 AM
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Power outages would not be funny.
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post #1135 of 1135 Unread Today, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
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Wouldn't it be funny if there were huge power outages in the Northeast caused by the storm and no one could watch the Pats play in the Super Bowl on Sunday night?
LOLOLOLOLL.....that would be hilarious!!! That's a whole lot of angry New Englanders, mixed with "ronin beer" (beer without an event to celebrate). The National Guard would have to be called to quell the ensuing riots.
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