The Stonewater Cinema Build Thread - Page 52 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 06-25-2016, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
4 days later and 4 people interested. And even then I'm not convinced of genuine interest in the build as much as a place to post snarky gifs. I rest my case.
Sorry, I missed the RSVP. COUNT ME IN!!!

I'm actually looking forward to your build. I think it is worthy of documentation as was a certain Hawaiian build. Not to mention the dedication to tear out hard work and do a total rebuild like another Swedish build. I've been sitting on the edge of my seat waiting to see if you got that foam out of the way and, yes ,wall treatment and overall design period/style (my sticking point).

Winterfell theatre build - working title
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Old 06-29-2016, 04:49 PM
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Yeah, hey, I'm still here Tim. Your camera is part of the tool bag on AVS just like a level or a miter saw. If this theater turns out like that coffered ceiling, it's gonna be one for the ages.

Oh, and smart ass memes and gifs are part of the tool bag too.
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post
Completely starting from scratch?
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Originally Posted by JVoth View Post
Yeah reusing an entire wall is pretty impressive. That's better than crystal meth tweakers on large garbage day. Those guys can find anything in a giant pile of garbage and turn it into money for more meth. Not that I'm calling you a white trash tweaker or anything, but you're reclaiming abilities are on par with the best of them.
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I'm very impressed with your removal and reinstallation of the wall material.
OK, two pics from my iPhone showing the recycled double layer material repurposed underneath the steps on the flip side of the left theater wall.



And what good would repurposed material be without TMcG precision construction??


All gaps were filled with acoustic caulk.

Last edited by TMcG; 06-29-2016 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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And through a lot of trial and error I figured out a way to remove all the extra foam from the front and right walls, plus the entire outer rim joist area, recapturing about 3.5 inches of room width.

Photos are from very early in the process. It took forever. Ended up with 7 *FULL* 55 gallon contractor garbage bags filled with foam.



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Old 06-29-2016, 06:40 PM
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That foam looked like a nightmare. Looks like progress. Keep it going!
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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More old photos...

Outside the entrance received double layers of 5/8" sheet material with lots of Green Glue. I rewired both the marquee and movie poster box to accept hard wiring vs. the plug tails, pull chains and/or roller switches they had on both.











That's all the theater photos I have on my phone. The rest are snaps of my world business travels and other nonsense.
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Old 06-29-2016, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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That foam looked like a nightmare. Looks like progress. Keep it going!
You don't know the half of it with that foam. Those little foam crumblies were super static-y and were tracked everywhere for weeks, no matter how much I vacuumed. They would stick to anything and eventually fall off anywhere in the house. It was also a very physical effort.
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Old 06-29-2016, 07:14 PM
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And through a lot of trial and error I figured out a way to remove all the extra foam from the front and right walls, plus the entire outer rim joist area, recapturing about 3.5 inches of room width.

Photos are from very early in the process. It took forever. Ended up with 7 *FULL* 55 gallon contractor garbage bags filled with foam.



now we know what you have been doing for the last 8 months; busting rocks. Dude that looks like a prison yard. But if you want to call it recapturing more space, you go right ahead. I am just sorry I wasn't there to help.


not really

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Old 06-29-2016, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, I lied...found 3 more pics....

I previously did a very minimal job on the soundproofing of the two basement steps which protrude into the theater. Only the bottom part of these steps will be outside the soundproof shell, creating a serious need to do something with the upper part of the steps. The slope will be hidden within the soffit, so no worries there...but the soffit itself will not have any soundproofing function.

Considering these steps are central to the main floor of our home and have an open area to the bedrooms on the second floor, you begin to see the need to soundproof this structure as much as possible. I have step-by-step photos of ripping off the first layered materials I put on several years ago and building out the soundproofing with a definitive construction approach of many overlapping layers of damped mass and all empty volumes filled with insulation. I think I succeeded because the steps literally feel and sound like you are stepping on concrete. No resonance or thud whatsoever. There's probably four full tubes of Green Glue and 1.5 large tubes of acoustic caulk built into all the layers on these steps.

Here are the final photos. The plan is to have the first layer of wall sheet material pass just in front of the flat vertical you see pictured. Once both the walls and ceiling are installed, I will install some blocking and recreate the double 5/8" layer soundproof shell on an angle to 'cover' the sloped part of the steps with the same soundproof shell approach. Hopefully I described this clearly.







Shown from above. Everything fully sealed with caulking.


And I'd like to leave everybody with this one, final pro tip..... ALWAYS let your putty pads acclimate for at least 4.5 years before using. This has been the only reason for my prior construction hold-up.

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Old 06-30-2016, 04:39 AM
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Good call on the 4.5 year cure time on the putty pads. Let's chalk that up as a HT construction best practice.
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Old 06-30-2016, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Good call on the 4.5 year cure time on the putty pads. Let's chalk that up as a HT construction best practice.
Yeah, I couldn't believe you only let yours acclimate for a few days. HACK!!
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:59 AM
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OK, I lied...found 3 more pics....

I previously did a very minimal job on the soundproofing of the two basement steps which protrude into the theater. Only the bottom part of these steps will be outside the soundproof shell, creating a serious need to do something with the upper part of the steps. The slope will be hidden within the soffit, so no worries there...but the soffit itself will not have any soundproofing function.

Considering these steps are central to the main floor of our home and have an open area to the bedrooms on the second floor, you begin to see the need to soundproof this structure as much as possible. I have step-by-step photos of ripping off the first layered materials I put on several years ago and building out the soundproofing with a definitive construction approach of many overlapping layers of damped mass and all empty volumes filled with insulation. I think I succeeded because the steps literally feel and sound like you are stepping on concrete. No resonance or thud whatsoever. There's probably four full tubes of Green Glue and 1.5 large tubes of acoustic caulk built into all the layers on these steps.

Here are the final photos. The plan is to have the first layer of wall sheet material pass just in front of the flat vertical you see pictured. Once both the walls and ceiling are installed, I will install some blocking and recreate the double 5/8" layer soundproof shell on an angle to 'cover' the sloped part of the steps with the same soundproof shell approach. Hopefully I described this clearly.







Shown from above. Everything fully sealed with caulking.


And I'd like to leave everybody with this one, final pro tip..... ALWAYS let your putty pads acclimate for at least 4.5 years before using. This has been the only reason for my prior construction hold-up.

Tim, my friend....I know how what you mean. My putty pads only cured for seven months, and i believe they are causing the outlet plastic to rot (goes against science!). My studs cured for eight months before drywall, and I'm convinced the drywall holds better for it. My concrete slab cured for two years before it saw carpet, and the carpet is now softer and smells better because of this foresight. Time is the best tool when building a theater! I know this from my own experience. :-)

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Old 06-30-2016, 03:19 PM
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The best theaters are built in dimension X.
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Old 07-01-2016, 06:23 AM
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Time is the best tool when building a theater! I know this from my own experience. :-)
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The best theaters are built in dimension X.
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:03 AM
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Thanks for the updates, bud. We don't care when they happen, just that they happen...

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Old 07-01-2016, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Reused sheet material preparation

OK, it looks like you guys struck gold today. We had to call in a technician for one of our kitchen appliances and I had some time to see exactly what was in my camera. As-expected, there aren't many photos in comparison to the work I've completed, but I organized all the pictures and will post them by task over the next several posts.

So this is the final stack of sheet material from the left and front walls of the theater:



If you recall, @24Changer and I ended up simply prying all this material off the studs for a number of reasons. Some of the screws stayed with the studs and gave me this blowout (this was the worst of it)....



...but I'd say about 60% stayed with the sheet material, so I was left with something like this which needed to be removed:



Using my Robogrips and a bit of leverage, I was able to pry out the screws, but was still getting more OSB 'blow out' than I would have preferred. In all cases I just used a hammer to pound the blowout back down which worked reasonably well. Because this blowout likely wouldn't be on a stud in its new location, the slight hump in the OSB didn't matter.

After snapping quite a few screws which couldn't take the sheer, I modified my approach and bought a throwaway 1/4" paddle bit. I then partially drilled through the sheet material right beside the screw like this....



...which made pulling through the screw out a lot easier when I applied leverage in the opposite direction. The screw head used the drilled hole as an easy escape path. I ended up with only a very small amount of blowout. FWIW I put a dab of wood glue into the holes and shoved in all the sawdust:



So that's how I prepared the sheet material for reuse....next came cutting pieces to size and leaving the damage behind.
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Reusing the sheet material

No photos, but I cut the first piece for reuse under the steps inside the basement theater using my circular saw, a straight edge and a pair of clamps. I knew it would have some dust, but I wasn't prepared for the absolute EXPLOSION of drywall dust. These filters on my return air ducts in the basement are only a few hours old....



They were filled to capacity, whistling...AND the basement was still cloudy. Needless to say, but I took my whole cutting operation outside. And because I was working by myself and these panels were so heavy, I abandoned working from my saw horses in favor of setting up a few pieces of 2x3 to get my saw blade up off the ground.



Not shown, but I could usually create a starting reference from the factory edge of the OSB layer to recreate a straight edge in from the damage.



Here's a close-up of what most of the edges looked like since it was a rougher removal (i.e. prying vs. cutting) process:



Using this new straight line as a reference, I was able to square the remaining sides. Since this was going under the steps, the fourth side on this piece had a carefully measured slope



Confirming the fit at the top....



....and the bottom and butt joint...



Rinse and repeat for all wall sections:



Close-up of final installation under the steps:


Probably completely worthless information since I don't exactly see anyone rip off and reuse double layer sheet material...but there you have it.

Last edited by TMcG; 07-01-2016 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 07-01-2016, 11:27 AM
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I like it. Looks like work. Looks like doing things the hard way. I like it.

I never use circukar on DW basically as you say "dust explosion". I thought about using my festool track saw since it's so tempting but I'm afraid I'll ruin my nice saw. I feel your pain.

I guess I should follow your lead and update my thread that isn't a build thread yet. I have so much progress I'd be confused what to post.
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Old 07-01-2016, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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More deconstruction...

OK, last post as the appliance technician will be wrapped up very soon...

Remember how I said I was done with deconstruction?? Yeah, I got a laugh out of that statement too. Aside from removing and rebuilding the entire theater entrance wall (which you saw in a previous post), I also removed the left front and front walls entirely for re-framing in the name of sound containment.

First, here's a picture of all the walls removed


I removed some of the existing cladding from the side of the steps (you can see it pictured above) so I could reinstall the new wall materials completely flush with the existing wall and tight against the side of the steps (with Green Glue, of course!).



I then ripped 2x4s to the exact depth I needed for the studding and the new double layers of 5/8" sheet materials to sit flush with the existing 1/2" of drywall. New wall was then installed in-place.



This is a top view of the lower steps, showing the gap I would be filling with two layers of 5/8" sheet material with Green Glue



Because I had no way of securing to the studs the part of the 5/8" OSB wall that would be behind the stair riser, I cut out the profile and attached with Green Glue. Note the sheet material and Green Glue I added to the rest of the side steps FWIW.



Because I have 9' ceilings, I ripped a 1' starter strip to get the total wall height I needed and to stagger the seams between the 48" OSB and the 54" drywall. Here's the confluence of the piece I attached to the side of the steps, the starter strip and the first full 4x8 sheet cut to length. The compound cuts and all the angles don't look like it in the photo, but they are very tight and received a small amount of acoustic caulking on the edge during installation.



Wider shots:





I then added the first layer of 5/8" drywall with a ton of Green Glue. I converted to adjustable boxes for the electrical to make handling the new wall thickness easy.



No other in-process photos, but here is the finished soundproof wall at the foot of the steps. I carefully cut the closet header framing to length and added back in the king and jack stud. It's secured to the OSB of this new wall. Also not shown is about 6 hours of rerouting ALL the electrical in the hallway and for this wall so the romex would reach these new box locations and to create a completely clear path for all the forthcoming theater speaker wires to run without coming near any high voltage wires whatsoever. I also sealed all the gaps with acoustic caulk, including around the electrical boxes before installing the switches, receptacles and plates. And finally, since I knowingly ran this wall to the ceiling, I installed some blocking for the drywallers to hang the ceiling board.



The drywall paper is a slightly different color and it may throw off your perception in the picture, but I am very happy with how completely flush and true this new wall came out in matching up with the existing stairwell drywall. It is absolutely dead on. There was simply no 'play' or way of faking it when soundproofing demanded everything be perfectly tight and flush.

Last edited by TMcG; 07-01-2016 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 07-01-2016, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Even more soundproofing....

With my theater entrance wall now having double layers of 5/8" with Green Glue, the new wall at the foot of the steps getting the same and underneath the steps getting the double 1/2" reused material, that left the original stairway wall above the steps as the weak point in my left wall soundproofing. To address this weakness I decided to add 1/2" OSB with Green Glue to the BACK of the original drywall to get the dual layer damping system.

Here's what the wall looked like at some unknown point in time:



Insulation removed:



First piece about to be installed:


Since I was working by myself (like 99.9% of the time), I needed some way to provide a bit of pressure to the OSB so I could send drywall screws through from the stairwell on the other side. I used a couple scrap pieces of 2x4 to get the needed pressure.



Wall complete. Note the 1/2" scrap I added to the side of the step stringer with Green Glue. Probably does nothing but scratch my OCD itch.



You can see some of the hundreds of screws on the right side of this picture.



Insulation replaced. Putty pads added to electrical boxes in new wall section



New wall section insulated with R13. Preview of the next wall I rebuilt. That will come in my next post, whenever that is. I need to start swinging hammers instead of screwing around in this thread.

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Old 07-01-2016, 05:29 PM
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Looks like you need some help. Maybe we could work on the theater and not the front door
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Old 07-01-2016, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Final wall of reconstruction

So when I installed 2 layers of 5/8" drywall between the ceiling joists, the original wall was already in place and I didn't have any access to installing the drywall in this dead space. Well, now that the wall is gone, I had no excuse. I scraped down a bunch of foam to make way for the pieces and extended my cuts into the foam toward the exterior, leaving just enough depth to retain an air barrier.



Measured and cut all the pieces...



and installed, followed by installing R30 insulation



Previously, I framed a new wall and did a test fit to join up with one piece of existing framing that was really held tightly into place by the spray foam. I decided to use it and join this stud to the new framing through new sill and top plates.



Now here is where I made a mistake. The wall fit perfectly. Great. But what I didn't even think about doing was installing a couple of scrap pieces of wood on the face of this wall, locking every stud into position. Unseen to the naked eye, the framing went back to its natural, unstressed position when I pulled it our for the next steps. More on this later.

After confirming fit I laid the wall flat on the floor and insulated with R13


This was the reused double layer piece I cut in the theater which caused the Dust Explosion



Still, it made a very nice cut...



I didn't have a single piece of reuse material that could span the entire wall, so I was going to have to piece it in



Three pieces in total


I then attached R30 insulation to the exterior wall framing using a stapler through the paper facing to keep it in place. All seams were overlapped and the insulation batts were lined up tightly.



Next, I used longer staples to attach faced R30 insulation to the back side of this new wall I made



At this point I raised the wall into position, expecting construction perfection as it slipped perfectly into place. Yeah, not so much because of the "racking" this wall went through. It was impossible to correct without complete disassembly of the sheet material, insulation, etc. which I wasn't about to do. The next 30 minutes were rated NC-17 for strong language and adult themes as I cursed my own stupidity for not thinking about the studs moving when they weren't in-place in the wall. In fact I have no pictures of the 30 minutes after that where I hacked the wall into submission with various construction implements. In the end it wasn't that much modification, but it still set me off pretty good for some reason. I remember I was tired and it had been a long slog that day, but that's no excuse. I just missed it.

Anyhow, I had to go through and find *any* photo of the finished product and here it is:


Lesson learned - use bracing to prevent racking in stud walls when you are moving them around.
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Last edited by TMcG; 07-02-2016 at 06:54 AM.
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Old 07-01-2016, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like you need some help. Maybe we could work on the theater and not the front door
Anytime, brotha!!

The only thing I'm definitely going to need help with in the near term is the upper sheets of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue installed on the walls. I have a borrowed drywall lift, but that could be a bit wonky to work when it can't hold the wall board vertical due to the OSB layer. What you are seeing are historical photos that I happened to take along the way at various points in time. More to follow since this contractor was here this morning and I had time to sit in the kitchen and mindlessly sort the pictures while he worked.
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Old 07-01-2016, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Theater entrance wall

As you recall, sometime last year I ripped out all the framing for the theater entry and re-framed. One of the tasks connected to this project which I had not been looking forward to was tearing apart the soffit outside the theater and dealing with re-routing all the rough trades, especially the electrical. It was a big project made even bigger because of the level of perfection you need creating a soundproof shell with all the mechanical things passing through as minimally as possible.

Again, I have limited photos. First up was removing the soffit framing for easy access to loosen all staples, clamps, hangers, etc.



Another view:


One more:


I measured and cut out the complex cuts with a jig saw


The builder's original framing was not plumb, seen here to the left:



So I scribed the angle and cut for a perfect:


Test fit:


Just before mounting, I used the OSB as a template for the drywall so I didn't even have to recreate the measurements:


In the pic below you can see where I split the PVC drain pipe pass-through. I cut the hole larger than needed, more on that in a later post. Also used the adjustable electrical boxes in this wall.


Finished OSB layer:


Because I had a perfect template, drywall went right up afterwards:


Unfortunately, the drywall got away from me while I was trying to mount this heavy piece by myself without a cleat. The piece on the left broke and my hand was completely covered with the Green Glue I had applied on the back. I should have used a cleat. Oh well. Note there are no screws in the future marquee area above the door.



Final drywall:
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Last edited by TMcG; 07-03-2016 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 07-02-2016, 05:22 AM
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Holy crap. We asked for progress and we certainly got it.

It is fascinating, to me, the work you're having to put in just to get to the stage of putting up clips and channel.
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Old 07-02-2016, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Holy crap. We asked for progress and we certainly got it.

It is fascinating, to me, the work you're having to put in just to get to the stage of putting up clips and channel.
Well, I'm only about halfway through all the progress pictures I have to post. I'll get to it when I can, whenever that is. In fact I had to cut short the post above to kiss some boo boos our little man just received.

Once the scale of my system changed, I didn't make the decision to deconstruct and rebuild the room lightly. I knew it was going to be an amazing amount of work (and rework). Retrofitting a double layer external shell is one of the tougher things you can do. Rearranging the electrical is an ever-present butt kicker that goes hand-in-hand with every area you touch because you basically end up rewiring everything. There's also a ton of ancillary tasks I can't even name surrounding each of these bigger tasks I've grouped together.

I think you'll like what I did with rearranging all the rough mechanicals in the theater when I get around to posting those pictures...probably the next post.
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Old 07-02-2016, 10:07 AM
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you have come a long way since the start of deconstruction, looking good. Let me know when you are ready to hang the 5/8", that stuff is heavier than heavy by yourself.
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Creekside Stone Cinema
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Old 07-03-2016, 10:28 PM
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Thanks for the update pics. I am super excited to see the progress. We are here to cheer you on! GREAT JOB!!!
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The Moving Pictures Theater Construction Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1462881/th...ruction-thread

Houston GTG - Summer 2014
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post26079610
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Old 07-04-2016, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Marquee Installation v2.0

Since my theater entry wall was now complete, the time came to permanently install the marquee. First, I installed a scrap piece of 1/2" drywall to represent my finished ceiling. Not shown, but I marked where the crown molding and case molding were going to be so I could precisely center my cut.

Here is a photo with everything marked up, ready for cutting:


View from the back:


Hole cut (as a side note, I retired my jig saw after this cut because it cannot make a straight cut to save its life):


Unlike before where behind the sign was open to the next layer of framing, this time around I was going all out to give it the same level of soundproofing as the rest of the entry wall. So I cut a piece of 5/8" OSB and 5/8" drywall and joined them together with lots of Green Glue.


I then slid this sandwich into position and added some scrap bracing flush with the framing so I could push from the front and know the piece would be flush in the back


As seen from the front. Not shown was the 3/4" pine left over from my coffered ceiling which I ripped to width and cut to length. This was inserted through the front and ran around the outside perimeter of the framing, completely out of the way of the sign. This served two purposes: To make sure everything was completely tight and flush and provide perimeter blocking where I could screw in from the back, completely around the perimeter for 100% fixation.


And from the back once the scrap blocking was removed. Not shown was the acoustic caulking I added around the perimeter of this insert to make sure everything was completely sealed:


Next, I temporarily rewired the fixture. It has a rocker switch on a hard-wired captive power cord AND a pull chain mechanism in series. It took a few minutes to examine what was happening with the hot, neutral and ground before I removed all the other power switches, rewired and verified operation with the hard switch:

Then I tidied up all the wiring and drilled a hole through the plastic for the captive romex connector.




And the final installation:

Last edited by TMcG; 07-04-2016 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 07-04-2016, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Marquee Poster Lightbox Installation

Next up was installing the marquee poster lightbox. First, I insulated only the top part of the wall as the inspector will need to see the bottom part to pass rough electrical. I can insulate from the back once everything is approved. After dropping the drywall on the entry wall, I was taking no chances and installed a completely level cleat. I also moved the scrap 1/2" drywall to the movie poster wall for proper spacing from the ceiling joists.



Again, the original builder's framing was a mess so I ended up scribing the drywall for a perfect cut:


Bottom piece had the same issues and was also scribed:


Before installing, I laid down a heavy bead of acoustic caulking in the corner to get a full seal:


Acoustic caulking used in the corners and every available gap


Drywall complete


Like the marquee, I needed to convert this light fixture from plug-in to hard-wired:


I needed to expand the hole at the bottom of the framing to accommodate the romex strain relief connector. I had to use a jig to guide my paddle bit:


Tested the new hard-wired connection:


Final installation:

Last edited by TMcG; 07-04-2016 at 07:00 AM.
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