The Stonewater Cinema Build Thread - Page 58 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1711 of 1933 Old 01-01-2017, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Happy New Year to everyone!

I'd like to start 2017 off right by doing something extremely stupid which is breaking a cardinal rule of AVS Forum and offering a theater completion date. That date is September 6, 2017. I will put one qualifier on the word 'completion' in that it refers to completion of the physical room. Pending new equipment announcements / launches at CEDIA, I may not have a preamp, projector or all the 4K sources by this date. Once all the CEDIA equipment announcements are made, I will finalize my selections and pull the trigger on these final pieces of equipment to be installed as soon as possible. No sense in buying this equipment any sooner.

Second, I'm going to make a concerted effort to update my thread to its current status with photos...and video. Santa brought a new 4K GoPro with various mounts and I intend to start a YouTube channel to upload the content with hotlinks here in this thread. I'm especially excited to try out the time lapse features. I'll also post some regular walk-through video updates to show things static pictures can't plus a handful of instructional videos of tips / tricks / etc. when building a theater.

On with the long-awaited pics of the rough mechanical re-work....
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post #1712 of 1933 Old 01-01-2017, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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To refresh everyone's memory of where I started with the mess of rough mechanicals as left by the builder, here you go:



And here is the after...you may only notice a very slight difference




I have to re-frame the right rear wall to accommodate the PVC intake and exhaust pipes for the basement HVAC system. That will have to come within the next week or so as it is very cold in the basement without being able to turn on the heat and take the winter chill out of the space.

You'll also notice I had to notch the one 2x10 joist. I hated to do it, but I didn't have any other choice to get the basement HVAC line set and main gas line to the house through the joist without paying a pro a huge sum to get them through a hole vs. a notch. To put my mind at ease regarding the structural integrity, I glued and nailed a piece of 3/4" plywood to the one side of the joist. This significantly improves it's rated strength and considering my notch of 1.5" deep by 3" wide is compliant to national building code without the laminated plywood, I have no worries. I have a piece of scrap plywood holding the pipes in the notch, but will convert this to a low profile 6" nailing plate, making sure the copper doesn't touch the steel. Considering this notch will be directly above the top plate of the right wall, I don't have any concerns about nails or direct contact anyhow.
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post #1713 of 1933 Old 01-01-2017, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Since I had to remove ALL the spray foam from the outside rim joist to redo all the various pipes and wires, which was about half the length of the room, I decided to remove all the foam from the exterior rim joist so I could add double layers of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue to this last joist bay. I really hate this job, but it was literally the last spot I could possibly add two layers of drywall to the ceiling. Before installing each layer, I laid a heavy bead of indoor / outdoor silicone to make a weathertight seal.





If you don't think I'm crazy by now, this should seal the deal... The original penetrations leading to the outside of my house were WAY bigger than they needed to be. There was a ton of noise coming into the basement theater from my three AC condensing units sitting 18" away from the outside wall. I picked through the 'ol Stonewater Cinema construction boneyard and found enough 3/4" Plywood and OSB to add two layers with Green Glue to the vertical face of this outside rim joist. I took highly precise measurements and reconstituted the holes in the appropriate size with these two new layers of 3/4" sheet material. As you can see in some of the other photos below, I only had a 4" gap to do all this work in the joist bay. It was a mess and I got Green Glue everywhere and all over everything, but I eventually won out. After these pieces were in place, I then added the two layers of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue to the ceiling area. I haven't done it yet, but I will seal all the penetrations very tightly with a combination of electrical sealing putting, spray foam and silicone. Even without the holes being sealed, my efforts made a tremendous difference to the amount of sound you could hear in the theater. Crazy, huh??



Here I am holding a 2x4 stud in the approximate position of the right wall (in reality it will be about another inch closer). You can see how the depth of the spray foam covers the depth of the HVAC line sets so everything can run behind the wall. Pretty slick, eh?





And you can't tell from this perspective, but the rear wall will go between the PVC drain pipe in the foreground and the HVAC line sets, gas lines and plumbing lines you see running inside the steel beam pocket. I might have to slightly notch the back side of the rear wall top plates to not touch these mechanicals, but it shouldn't be by much as everything is as low-profile as possible. In retrospect I should have run the water pipes up into the joists to save that depth. I can still do it, but quite frankly I'm 'over' redoing any of these lines.

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post #1714 of 1933 Old 01-01-2017, 07:17 PM
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The number 1 cardinal sin of theater building........hanging the PJ before the HT is completed. Number 2 cardinal sin of theater building........setting a completion date.

Will be looking forward to seeing this all come together and especially the videos.

For a little extra motivation Vik and I will be there on the 5th to help you with the premier on the 6th.

Regards,

RTROSE

Oh, and BTW Happy New Year!
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My (slower than molasses) HT build here.
Now a Certified Carpet Counselor and Plumbing Counselor (Self given titles - pay no attention).
Enjoying my "almost done" theater.
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post #1715 of 1933 Old 01-01-2017, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post
...Number 2 cardinal sin of theater building........setting a completion date.

Will be looking forward to seeing this all come together and especially the videos.

For a little extra motivation Vik and I will be there on the 5th to help you with the premier on the 6th...
Oh, I think this is great that a completion date was set. TMcG knows why.
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post #1716 of 1933 Old 01-02-2017, 12:54 PM
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Clean, tight, gorgeous, ocd-approved... all appropriate adjectives for the work you've done to fix all those previous sins.

Love the optimism, too!!!

Bryan
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post #1717 of 1933 Old 01-03-2017, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Last night I decided to plumb the intake and exhaust lines for the basement HVAC so I could turn the system on. Unfortunately the system shut off after 30 minutes because it turns out the condensate pump was filled with algae and other ick which prevented the pump from doing its job. I'm going to try and resuscitate the pump tonight, but considering the motor isn't even kicking on at this point, I think the pump might be toast. Always something, right?

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post #1718 of 1933 Old 01-03-2017, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Happy New Year to everyone!

I'd like to start 2017 off right by doing something extremely stupid which is breaking a cardinal rule of AVS Forum and offering a theater completion date. That date is September 6, 2017. I will put one qualifier on the word 'completion' in that it refers to completion of the physical room. Pending new equipment announcements / launches at CEDIA, I may not have a preamp, projector or all the 4K sources by this date. Once all the CEDIA equipment announcements are made, I will finalize my selections and pull the trigger on these final pieces of equipment to be installed as soon as possible. No sense in buying this equipment any sooner.

Second, I'm going to make a concerted effort to update my thread to its current status with photos...and video. Santa brought a new 4K GoPro with various mounts and I intend to start a YouTube channel to upload the content with hotlinks here in this thread. I'm especially excited to try out the time lapse features. I'll also post some regular walk-through video updates to show things static pictures can't plus a handful of instructional videos of tips / tricks / etc. when building a theater.

On with the long-awaited pics of the rough mechanical re-work....
Why not just have Logan stop by and make it official... Nothing like putting pressure on yourself!
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post #1719 of 1933 Old 01-03-2017, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post
The number 1 cardinal sin of theater building........hanging the PJ before the HT is completed. Number 2 cardinal sin of theater building........setting a completion date.

Will be looking forward to seeing this all come together and especially the videos.

For a little extra motivation Vik and I will be there on the 5th to help you with the premier on the 6th!
Hey Rick. Looking forward to having you and @vikgrao here, but depending on equipment announcements at CEDIA I might not have the projector or preamp purchased yet. Don't worry, you guys are definitely on 'the list' for the grand opening (or any other time you'd like to drop by!)

I'm going to do a trial run with the time lapse video on Friday so I can record this weekend. I've never edited a video in my life, so the initial videos may be very raw.

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Why not just have Logan stop by and make it official... Nothing like putting pressure on yourself!
Logan already made it 'official' a few years ago, barely 6 months out of the gate. New goal is to make the Logan's hero list!

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Originally Posted by cowger View Post
Clean, tight, gorgeous, ocd-approved... all appropriate adjectives for the work you've done to fix all those previous sins.
Thanks Bryan. That's high praise coming from you! Now that I've cleared ALL the demolition and meticulous reconstruction hurdles, it's pure build from here on out. I put together what I think is a very reasonable and realistic timeline to stay on schedule. Fingers crossed!
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post #1720 of 1933 Old 01-05-2017, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Updated post 1713 above.
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post #1721 of 1933 Old 01-05-2017, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post
Number 2 cardinal sin of theater building........setting a completion date.
What if we just picked out a year? Are we still doomed? O_o
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post #1722 of 1933 Old 01-05-2017, 09:11 PM
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What if we just picked out a year? Are we still doomed? O_o
I speak from experience when I say, "yes."
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post #1723 of 1933 Old 01-06-2017, 04:33 PM
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What if we just picked out a year? Are we still doomed? O_o
Well now that is an interesting question. See I actually set a completion year, but made it far enough out that I actually completed the theater BEFORE the set completion date (which never EVER never EVER actually truly happens) so I was a hero to the wife and kids. Now I know that is technically cheating but who cares? So I'd say if you pick the completion year and it's a year you know FOR SURE it will be done, like far enough out that new oil is created in the process, then you are golden. If you do anything other than that yes you are doomed!

Regards,

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Enjoying my "almost done" theater.
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post #1724 of 1933 Old 01-06-2017, 08:04 PM
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Great to see you've made progress!!!!!

I would have kept up but AVS and their password issues locked me out for more than two MONTHS!!!!!!!

And NO................I was not banned!


Look forward stopping by to see REAL progress! And by the way............leave the misses alone, don't need child three to mess with your theater ambitions!

Keep up the good work.......................
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post #1725 of 1933 Old 01-07-2017, 05:22 AM
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Tim, I wouldn't have even known where to start with all that mess you cleaned up, man. Well, actually, yes I would. I would have just built over it. That's quality work, as usual.
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post #1726 of 1933 Old 01-08-2017, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, more pictures to bring everyone up to speed....

I've never built a soundproof door from scratch and was doing a bit of research on home studio websites and Gearslutz.com. I ended up PM'ing a guy who designs studios and acoustic environments for a living. He wanted to see the space so we Facetimed one night and I gave him the complete walk-through. The framing was still gone at this point, and he had an interesting suggestion to add 1/4" Luan Plywood to my current plywood floor to "lock" everything together. I thought about it for a few weeks and figured I'd do it. Turned out to be about $220 in materials between the board and staples.

But first, I had to prep my plywood by removing all the glue and bits of framing lumber left behind when I removed the framing.


I didn't realize it until about 6 months ago, but there was a 'bladeless' blade included with my oscillating tool. It works phenomenally well when removing adhesives from wood. Here's a pic of the 'blade'.



The glue and wood bits was around the full perimeter of the room. After removing most of the adhesive with the oscillating tool, I finished with a quick sand of 60 grit in my palm sander. This is a pic after using the oscillating tool but before sanding:



Unfortunately, weeks of cat litter failed to soak up the mineral oil which dripped on the plywood when the HVAC system leaked.



So I carefully removed the affected area using my circular saw and Sawzall for replacement with new.



I took the piece with me to Lowes and Home Depot but couldn't locate sheet material which was the exact same thickness of the original piece. New materials were either slightly thicker or thinner. I ended up buying a tube of foamboard glue and used the oscillating tool to remove the previous adhesive:



Once the piece was back in place, I ended up giving it 3 coats of an encapsulating primer. Hopefully the mineral oil doesn't bleed through the primer.



After the primer dried I vacuumed and hand-wiped the entire floor with damp rags to remove all the dust and dirt I could. With this complete, floor prep was finished.
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post #1727 of 1933 Old 01-08-2017, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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With the floor prepared, it was time to start laying the Luan. I accidentally bought one less sheet than I needed, but fortunately I had one 4x8 sheet in my stack of supplies which I sliced up into the 15" wide piece I needed for each row (the piece I had is the reddish/pinkish color you see pictured).



It was very slow going as each sheet needed hundreds of staples and my little pancake compressor didn't have the air capacity to go fast.





Here's a close-up of just one area of the floor where you can see the number of staples. I thought this was overkill, but all the professionals recommend using a ton of fixation:



Complete!






I'd estimate there is close to 9000 staples in this floor. I believe it was worth it as the difference I can feel under foot is very noticeable.
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post #1728 of 1933 Old 01-08-2017, 07:14 PM
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Whew! Lots and Lots of staples. I totally agree and understand about the staple overkill as it's much easier to over fasten now vs trying to fix things later. Having worked with luan before it is actually pretty easy stuff to work with (had to lay some prior to putting in a new floor) or at least it was in my experience. I would think it would be pretty easy to have the staples blow right through unless the pressure is just right.

Love seeing the progress.

Regards,

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My (slower than molasses) HT build here.
Now a Certified Carpet Counselor and Plumbing Counselor (Self given titles - pay no attention).
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post #1729 of 1933 Old 01-08-2017, 07:27 PM - Thread Starter
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With the floor complete, I turned my attention to replacing the old ratty insulation on the stairwell wall with brand new. After being installed and removed several times, loaded with construction dust and snagged by anything and everything, it looked a bit tired as you can see from the 'before' picture. I have plenty of places I can repurpose the old insulation in the main part of the basement where its condition doesn't matter. I just couldn't see installing new in the main basement when I had this old stuff in the theater, so out it went.

This is where I started:


With the insulation removed, you can see all of my previous soundproofing work first-hand. The area below the steps is the repurposed double layer sheet material on the other side of the wall underneath the steps. The area above the steps is where I cut custom pieces of OSB for each stud bay, added Green Glue and secured from the opposite side through the stairwell wall.





I even covered the side of the steps with sheet material and Green Glue. ALL gaps were filled with acoustic caulk:



Close up view:


All old insulation replaced:


If you guessed framing pictures were next (actually, re-re-reframing pictures), you'd be right....
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post #1730 of 1933 Old 01-08-2017, 07:36 PM
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Amazing progress! Looks great to see things looking so tidy. Ahhh! What size are those HVAC ducts?
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post #1731 of 1933 Old 01-08-2017, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post
See I actually set a completion year, but made it far enough out that I actually completed the theater BEFORE the set completion date
This is why you are MUCH smarter than me!

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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
And by the way............leave the misses alone, don't need child three to mess with your theater ambitions!
Don't worry, having two very young kids is excellent birth control!

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Tim, I wouldn't have even known where to start with all that mess you cleaned up, man. Well, actually, yes I would. I would have just built over it. That's quality work, as usual.
Thanks JVoth. Looking back it was a TON of work to rip everything out and rebuild from scratch. I'm glad I did it....but I'm even happier I never have to do it again!!!

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I would think it would be pretty easy to have the staples blow right through unless the pressure is just right.
You are correct. I fiddled with the pressure to get it perfect without blowing through, but I had to keep watching the available pressure in my tank as I needed a minimum of 80 pounds so it would install correctly. Anything less left the staple proud which I had to manually beat down with my hammer.
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post #1732 of 1933 Old 01-08-2017, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Amazing progress! Looks great to see things looking so tidy. Ahhh! What size are those HVAC ducts?
Thanks Ric. Each of the two supplies (hanging down from the ceiling) are 6" insulated flex duct. The single return is 10" flex duct although I am considering building a duct muffler for the return which would require an 8" duct instead. Technically 8" is the proper size...I just used a 10" to lower the fpm.
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post #1733 of 1933 Old 01-08-2017, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Thanks Ric. Each of the two supplies (hanging down from the ceiling) are 6" insulated flex duct. The single return is 10" flex duct although I am considering building a duct muffler for the return which would require an 8" duct instead. Technically 8" is the proper size...I just used a 10" to lower the fpm.
I HIGHLY recommend using 10" duct for your supplies. 6" are way to small. I am certain of it.
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post #1734 of 1933 Old 01-08-2017, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
I HIGHLY recommend using 10" duct for your supplies. 6" are way to small. I am certain of it.
My system can't support it. I am using the original HVAC system so the entire basement is the same zone. The theater has the first and third takeoffs from the main supply line (14" round, FYI). Having two 10" taps would kill the CFM for the rest of the basement.

I haven't put my anemometer to any of the ducts yet, but up to 200 CFM for that room is the best I can do with the system I have. I wasn't willing to put in the $5k+ for a separate dedicated system.
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post #1735 of 1933 Old 01-08-2017, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
You are correct. I fiddled with the pressure to get it perfect without blowing through, but I had to keep watching the available pressure in my tank as I needed a minimum of 80 pounds so it would install correctly. Anything less left the staple proud which I had to manually beat down with my hammer.
I remember a time not too long ago I was so happy and satisfied with my measuring abilities that I went down the line of some trim with the nailer pop, pop, pop, pop, pop......only to look back and see that my pressure was anything but adequate to counter sink the finishing nails. I then had to go back with my hammer and countersink and take care of all those nails. I now only drive one to see and then when pressure is satisfied continue with reckless abandon!

I so love my pneumatic nailer(s) I bring them out even for very small jobs.

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My (slower than molasses) HT build here.
Now a Certified Carpet Counselor and Plumbing Counselor (Self given titles - pay no attention).
Enjoying my "almost done" theater.
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post #1736 of 1933 Old 01-08-2017, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
My system can't support it. I am using the original HVAC system so the entire basement is the same zone. The theater has the first and third takeoffs from the main supply line (14" round, FYI). Having two 10" taps would kill the CFM for the rest of the basement.

I haven't put my anemometer to any of the ducts yet, but up to 200 CFM for that room is the best I can do with the system I have. I wasn't willing to put in the $5k+ for a separate dedicated system.
Understood. In addition to the CFM you have to be concerned about the FPM. Because you don't want to find yourself in a situation where the diffuser/grills are making air noise. My recommendation at a minimum is to test, test, test before you move past the point where you can't make any changes. For instance get after you build your pressurized plenums but your diffusers/grills on them (returns and supplies) and make sure you are happy with the CFM, FPM and noise level.
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post #1737 of 1933 Old 01-09-2017, 03:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Soundproof steps

OK, getting down near the end of my historical progress photos archive....

One of the weakest points to soundproof was the basement steps. From the 1st floor you come down two steps to a 3x3 landing, both of which protruded into the theater.

Here's how it originally looked after I ripped out my original soundproofing work:




Here you can see how the landing framing was completely open to the area underneath the steps.




I made a double layer OSB sandwich out of 3/4" OSB and Green Glue cut to fit this first bay in the landing framing precisely:




Fit as-seen from underneath the steps. Since the stair landing was made from 2x6 framing, I added R19 insulation before permanently installing this piece:


And fit as-seen from the theater:


Next up was two layers of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue (after removing a ton of the excess construction adhesive)


Next, I made a double layer sandwich to fit precisely underneath the first stair tread:




And installed with acoustic caulking filling every gap:


Because of the bevel cuts, I had to split the angled piece into two for installation. Here's the first piece installed with some insulation to fill the void. More insulation was added as the second half was installed:


I added some screws through the front of the stair riser for extra security while the adhesive and caulking set:


...and used acoustic caulking to fill every other available gap from the upstairs:


A poor camera angle, but I added 5/8" drywall with Green Glue to the sides of the step stringer to fill the gaps which led straight upstairs. This is the same gap caulked from above with acoustic caulking, FYI. Not shown, but I also filled the area I couldn't reach with low pressure spray foam.


Added another double layer sandwich of 5/8" with OSB / Green Glue / 5/8" drywall underneath:


Added on piece of 5/8" with Green Glue to the front. I beveled the top of the piece to match the angle at the top precisely then used acoustic caulk to seal the entire thing:




Now you see the methods I used to take soundproofing the stairs to the extreme. When you see the framing pictures, you'll see how I positioned the framing to stand proud of the face of these stairs by 1/4" - 3/8" so the double layer sheet material of the walls will pass in front of *most* of the stair structure for even more protection. And once the ceiling goes in I'll make an angled 'cap' to cover the small part of the stairs which is still protruding into the theater. This will be inside the perimeter soffit, so it will be hidden.
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Last edited by TMcG; 01-09-2017 at 04:00 AM.
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post #1738 of 1933 Old 01-09-2017, 04:38 AM
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Quick, easy fixes, completed with shoddy workmanship, as usual...
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post #1739 of 1933 Old 01-09-2017, 06:12 AM
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Who makes Green Glue and are they publicly traded? Great job b
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post #1740 of 1933 Old 01-09-2017, 06:27 AM
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looks good Tim. the Re-build title fits the build.

Creekside Stone Cinema
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