The Stonewater Cinema Build Thread - Page 63 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1861 of 1886 Unread 03-10-2017, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by p3bham View Post
I've been lurking for a few days. Read through all of the 1800+ posts word by word - who needs to work? When I started I was looking for a thread to read and assumed this one was long enough to have a finished product but now I'm glad to be around for the live finish. Just awesome work TMcG. I'm a woodworker so definitely intrigued by the veneer and woodwork you'll be adding. Ribbon Mahogany is always beautiful. And you've now moved me towards building my own. And dreaming of Procella. I've been a Home Theater enthusiast since I was 18 (40 now) and recently had my whole system fried by lightning. Luckily a secondhand Denon purchased from a friend turned out to be of such a level that I was able to get the insurance company to replace it with the top of the line Denon. I don't have anything like the equipment shown around here but I'm at least Atmos friendly now. Thanks for keeping the posting up and count me as one of those who love the little details - the framing, rerouting of mechanicals and especially your endless quest for soundproofing. I'm subscribed and looking forward to seeing the finish.
Thanks for the kind words and I'm honored to be your very first post! Welcome to the Forum (and my thread). Like most, I'm sure at some point you were wondering why there were long pauses between progress as I figured out if I was going to relocate or have a job at all during 3.5 years of straight reorg. Glad that's behind me and glad to be moving forward again. You came in at just the right time.

The room is just sitting there, waiting for the last few minor tasks to be complete before drywalling the walls. I really can't wait to get this part of the shell complete. It will feel like a giant check mark on my road to theater completion, not to mention a huge bulk of building materials permanently out of my way!
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post #1862 of 1886 Unread 03-10-2017, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Thanks for the kind words and I'm honored to be your very first post! Welcome to the Forum (and my thread). Like most, I'm sure at some point you were wondering why there were long pauses between progress as I figured out if I was going to relocate or have a job at all during 3.5 years of straight reorg. Glad that's behind me and glad to be moving forward again. You came in at just the right time.

The room is just sitting there, waiting for the last few minor tasks to be complete before drywalling the walls. I really can't wait to get this part of the shell complete. It will feel like a giant check mark on my road to theater completion, not to mention a huge bulk of building materials permanently out of my way!
Thanks for the response. Well, I was kind of spared the waiting game while you figured everything out due to my reading from the start over the last few days. But I've really enjoyed it. I am meticulous by nature on building things so am very much on your side with all the unprogress/progress moves you've made. As I got to the point where you were making the decision whether to pull down all the framing or not I kept thinking DO IT! And I am certain the final product will be the better for it. Those Procella speakers are what dreams are made of. I used to lust after a Goldmund theater but now after reading so much about Procella they have become my ultimate target. I think with the work you've put in and the equipment you have you are going to end up with one of if not the best personal theaters in the country and I can't wait to see how it all turns out. Keep up the good work!
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post #1863 of 1886 Unread 03-25-2017, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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CNC Milling Subwoofer Boxes

Yesterday I took the day off and spent 14 straight hours CNC cutting all the subwoofer box parts and bracing for the two 24" and the two 18" rear sub boxes. It was a monumental effort to get it all done in one day. Milling 3/4" depth for rabbets and mortises in the 1.5 deep Trupan MDF took forever and doesn't even take into account the through-cuts, bit changes for the screw holes, etc. To say I was the king of sawdust yesterday would be putting it mildly.

There were plenty of hiccups along the way - some of which I took a pic of just for laughs (or crying). Thankfully there was a spare piece of 3/4" MDF to re-cut a few pieces. Milling the Trupan was a bit nervewracking because I didn't have a single piece to spare. Fortunately, everything worked out.

My SUV was definitely sitting low under the weight of all the materials. I am going to take my time with the glue-up, starting with the matrix bracing for the 24" cabinets later tonight.
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post #1864 of 1886 Unread 03-25-2017, 08:28 PM
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I wonder how many new MDF panels a person could make if you could "recycle" the dust.... The few times that I worked with MDF (a couple of subs, a bunch of backer boxes for my theater can lights, etc) I cut that stuff outside. What a chore to make a make-shift work bench, but so much better than in the garage even. The stuff still gets everywhere and seems to target your eyes and nose (even with a dust mask), but at least my garage wasn't filled in every nook and cranny with dust. LOL And I was doing mostly straight cuts and just a few circle cuts. A CNC machine would be 100x more dust I would think (but oh so very very nice to have access to).

And photos?
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post #1865 of 1886 Unread 03-26-2017, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, here are the CNC milling pics....AND....I will also post the videos!! That's right, the Stonewater Cinema YouTube channel is now up and running. I'll post in this thread when I upload new content to the channel. I don't anticipate having enough time to upload fully edited videos but hey...I've got to crawl before I walk or run, right??

We started with 18mm 13 ply to crank out all the bracing used for all four subwoofer boxes (two 24" subs and the two 18" rear subs). This machine didn't have the vacuum table to hold down all the pieces, so we had to use clamps where we could. More on this later.


Almost right out of the gate, we ended up having to work the clamps around into the very, very limited free space to keep the sheet into position. Well, the machine ended up knocking off one of the clamps and the resulting vibration from the cutting shifted the sheet.


From that point forward, we nailed everything into the 'spoil board' base underneath the work. Here you can see how tight the pieces were compacted into the sheet material and all the nails we had to use in various places to hold down the individual pieces and the sheet offcuts.


First pieces cut!


Out of two full 4'x8' sheets of Baltic Birch, this was all the material that was left. The first sheet you see pictures above was literally completely uses with just a 1" perimeter frame. I wish I had thought to take a picture of it.


This was from a little bit later in the day when I started staging all the parts and pieces to load into my vehicle.


Next up was cutting the 3/4" MDF for two rear subwoofers. I haven't been making any posts in this thread and will cover the rationale later (complete with pics), but I needed to create a 4 cubic foot sub box with as shallow depth as possible for the two rear 18" UXL subwoofers so the could be completely recessed into the rear wall. Here's the first pass on the first sheet:


We nailed down the loose offcuts to make sure they didn't move:


And finally it came time to mill the 1.5" Trupan MDF. Here's the stack of 10 sheets we loaded onto a flat cart to get them close to the machine:


We started with the back piece. And in case you are wondering, we had completely filled the dust collection system to this point. It takes about 30 minutes to change out the heavy bag and put on a new one, but since we were short on time and the CNC owner didn't have a new bag, we cut all 10 sheets of Trupan without any dust collection. We ended up manually sweeping all the dust away from the parts as the cutting proceeded after this first back piece because all the extra sawdust 'raised' the bit and didn't allow it to make the full depth cuts we needed. This was also part of the hilarity in re-running the cutting program on *mostly* cut material to get the additional cut depth after the sawdust was manually removed.






Final part came out very nice


Close-up


I don't have many pics from cutting the Trupan because all of my time was spent constantly clearing mortises and cuts of sawdust. Here are the two backs, two front baffles and the side pieces.


Even with clearing the dust as each piece was being cut, sawdust still built up in the gaps and held the cut pieces in place tightly. Look at the amount of sawdust from the top and bottom pieces which had limited mortise pockets and absolutely no rabbeting around the edges:


Here you can see just how much sawdust was generated:


The dust collection system bag was filled with the first layer of material at the bottom, so only about 30% full. You can see how the layers of Baltic Birch and MDF contributed to the build-up until the system was completely full.


I kept sweeping huge piles of sawdust underneath the machine. It was probably 8 or 9 inches deep all the way around the machine by the end of the day.


Proof I was the king of sawdust on Friday:


11:15PM I was finally loaded up and ready to make the 2.5 hour drive back home:


I was a broken man after getting up at 4:30AM to load up all the material and drive 2.5 hours to the CNC shop, cut for 14 hours then drive 2.5 hours back making for 20 hour long odyssey. Instead of walking each piece around the house to get it into the basement. I was able to driver through side and back yards to get my vehicle to the basement door for unloading. Fortunately the ground was firm and didn't cause any ruts


Slightly better picture of the loaded vehicle in sunlight:


Next up, the videos!
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Last edited by TMcG; 03-26-2017 at 08:03 AM.
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post #1866 of 1886 Unread 03-26-2017, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, here are my first videos!

This was cutting the very first sheet of the day:

I experimented with a very quick time lapse video on my iPhone showing one of the 18" sub drivers cutouts. If I had an iPhone stand, I would have mounted my phone and just let it run:

Here is a longer real-time video of recutting the double layer front baffle for one of the 18" subwoofers. Watching this machine work has a real hypnotic effect. This was also the last cutting before the dust collection was completely full.
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post #1867 of 1886 Unread 03-26-2017, 08:25 AM
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That is the awesome. I don't think I've ever actually watched a CNC machine in action. I think the design of those boxes is more amazing than the machine though. Man that was a long day for sure.

The photo links aren't working in the first post btw.
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post #1868 of 1886 Unread 03-26-2017, 08:39 AM
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Wow, you have been busy! Taking DIY to another level with the CNC machine! Looking good so far!
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Theater: Sony 45es, 120 inch 16:9 screen, Panny BDT500, Rotel RMB-1075, Rotel RSP-1068, Klipsch RP-280F, RP-450C, RP-160M, SVS PB13 x 2, Monster Power Conditioner, GIK acoustic panels

TV Room: Panasonic 60" plasma, Integra DTR-30.3, Axiom Audio M60, VP150, QS8, EP500
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post #1869 of 1886 Unread 03-26-2017, 10:44 AM
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post #1870 of 1886 Unread 03-26-2017, 11:18 AM
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@dlbeck ,
You may have a rival for top audio in a theater when TmcG is done with this, sir. I know your room design is based off of, like a few others, the now famous Cinemar, but your audio setup is different from everything else I've seen and is still top notch and game changing in my opinion. Not that it's a competition by any means, but dual 24" subs and dual 18" "balancing" subs may just win the entire AVS Forum.

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post #1871 of 1886 Unread 03-27-2017, 05:17 AM
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Super cool videos Tim, thanks for sharing!!
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post #1872 of 1886 Unread 03-27-2017, 07:18 AM
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"We started with the back piece. And in case you are wondering, we had completely filled the dust collection system to this point. It takes about 30 minutes to change out the heavy bag and put on a new one, but since we were short on time and the CNC owner didn't have a new bag, we cut all 10 sheets of Trupan without any dust collection. We ended up manually sweeping all the dust away from the parts as the cutting proceeded after this first back piece because all the extra sawdust 'raised' the bit and didn't allow it to make the full depth cuts we needed. This was also part of the hilarity in re-running the cutting program on *mostly* cut material to get the additional cut depth after the sawdust was manually removed."

LOL Brings back memories of working on "The Santa Clause". There was a lot of parts getting made out of laminated layers of MDF and there wasn't a dust collector. The saw and sanders filled the air of the very large warehouse we were working in. Well 50 carpenters voted to kick the suckers stuck working with the MDF outside. It was -25F outside. Majority rules, eh? This is where a dust collector with a pellitiser rules...no bags, just change the pail. So, why no vacuum table to hold the parts? Neat tool though!

Winterfell theatre build - working title
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post #1873 of 1886 Unread 03-27-2017, 07:32 AM
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Awesome! Keep it up!
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Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!

The Plains Theater Has Begun
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post #1874 of 1886 Unread 03-27-2017, 07:57 AM
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Awesome stuff. CNC machines are truly incredible - and the accuracy with which they work will definitely show up in the final product. As a long time woodworker, I've lusted after one for a while - alas they are quite expensive for the size I would want and I could get a bunch of theater equipment for the same cost. Leave it to me to pick two of the priciest hobbies in the world - home theater and woodworking. Speaking of woodworking if the CNC guy is a buddy who did you a favor and you want to help him with that dust collection situation I've got a solution. You mentioned how difficult it is to change the bags - and you're correct it's a PITA. I have a similar collector and what I've done is add an Oneida Super Dust Deputy - a cyclone separator which catches about 95% of the dust before it ever reaches the bag/filter housing. They are less than $200 and make a huge difference - I've not emptied my clear plastic bag in a year and it still only has about three cups of dust in it. Secondly, those bag filters like he has are basically useless at catching the fine dust that harms you (particles less than 1 micron in size) as those bags are only 95% efficient at 5 microns. Wynn environmental makes aftermarket canister filters that retrofit onto dust collectors like that and are 99.97% efficient down to .3 microns - better than HEPA filtration. Additionally, because a canister filter has far more surface area than a bag filter, they increase the CFM of the collector, which more than makes up for the CFM loss of adding the Oneida cyclone. Total cost for these two items is around $350 and they make a plain Jane dust collector like that one perform like a much more expensive cyclone collector - and especially working with things like MDF which are nasty and terrible for your lungs, the filtration is such that they protect your health. Worth a mention - or if he's a buddy and did it for free, a thank you present.
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post #1875 of 1886 Unread Yesterday, 08:15 AM
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Great progress and pics, Tim, thanks for sharing!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
It takes about 30 minutes to change out the heavy bag and put on a new one, but since we were short on time and the CNC owner didn't have a new bag, we cut all 10 sheets of Trupan without any dust collection.
Really? 30 minutes to take a bag out, dump it, and re-use the same bag??? Might be time to upgrade to a friendlier dust collection system...
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post #1876 of 1886 Unread Yesterday, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JVoth View Post
That is the awesome. I don't think I've ever actually watched a CNC machine in action. I think the design of those boxes is more amazing than the machine though. Man that was a long day for sure.

The photo links aren't working in the first post btw.
Fixing the links will take a while, so it may just have to stay as-is for now until I can get to it. Thanks for letting me know. And you are right....I was a broken man the next day after working those long, long hours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ereed View Post
Wow, you have been busy! Taking DIY to another level with the CNC machine! Looking good so far!
As I said before, once I made the decision to upgrade to the BHS, I wanted to give it the best home I could create. No way I could have had anything quite so robust without a CNC. PLENTY of other pics to post of the room, but I have been traveling quite and packed days when in the home office.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post
Quite awesome Tim!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVoth View Post
@dlbeck ,
You may have a rival for top audio in a theater when TmcG is done with this, sir. I know your room design is based off of, like a few others, the now famous Cinemar, but your audio setup is different from everything else I've seen and is still top notch and game changing in my opinion. Not that it's a competition by any means, but dual 24" subs and dual 18" "balancing" subs may just win the entire AVS Forum.
My entire purpose for building this theater is to embarrass @dlbeck to the point he shudders his own theater. No personal enjoyment whatsoever other than to see David fade away in absolute shame. So yes, it is a competition and I intend on winning (insert war cry here)!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by p3bham View Post
Awesome stuff. CNC machines are truly incredible - and the accuracy with which they work will definitely show up in the final product. As a long time woodworker, I've lusted after one for a while - alas they are quite expensive for the size I would want and I could get a bunch of theater equipment for the same cost. Leave it to me to pick two of the priciest hobbies in the world - home theater and woodworking. Speaking of woodworking if the CNC guy is a buddy who did you a favor and you want to help him with that dust collection situation I've got a solution.
THANK YOU for sharing this dust collection solution, I forwarded it to my CNC guy. As much as I'd like to say this was a complimentary job, he is in business and I compensated him for his efforts. Well worth the $$ for the final product IMHO. I've started the glue-up and am already excited about seeing the end result!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowger View Post
Great progress and pics, Tim, thanks for sharing!!

Really? 30 minutes to take a bag out, dump it, and re-use the same bag??? Might be time to upgrade to a friendlier dust collection system...
If you consider it's very heavy and up on a platform....plus you have to ladle out a good amount of the sawdust before it's light enough to dump without tearing...plus removing / reinstalling the holster system and cleaning the filter....you get to 30 minutes pretty quickly. I forwarded @p3bham 's suggestion so hopefully he decides to follow his advice and put on the adjunct cyclonic system.
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post #1877 of 1886 Unread Yesterday, 03:08 PM
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There's an unglamorous side of operating a CNC router that one doesn't appreciate until spending all day processing sheet after sheet. Welcome to the club, Tim!

I'm really looking forward to seeing these come together. Almost as much as I'm looking forward to a thumbs up report after you first dry fit everything together.
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post #1878 of 1886 Unread Yesterday, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

My entire purpose for building this theater is to embarrass @dlbeck to the point he shudders his own theater. No personal enjoyment whatsoever other than to see David fade away in absolute shame. So yes, it is a competition and I intend on winning (insert war cry here)!!
For that to happen you have to actually complete your theater. Just a reminder your build thread started 1 year before my thread and I've had mine up and running for 3 years now. Boom! (Insert cry here)
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post #1879 of 1886 Unread Today, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post
Well worth the $$ for the final product IMHO. I've started the glue-up and am already excited about seeing the end result!!!

Oh no!!! Did the dust from the CNC machine get into your camera phone?!?!?


Share. Pics. NAOW!!


I find your lack of support for those of us that are living vicariously through your build very unsettling...
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post #1880 of 1886 Unread Today, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
Oh no!!! Did the dust from the CNC machine get into your camera phone?!?!?


Share. Pics. NAOW!!


I find your lack of support for those of us that are living vicariously through your build very unsettling...
Agreed. This project is much too cool to not have plenty of visual evidence to drool over!

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post #1881 of 1886 Unread Today, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DougUSMC View Post
Oh no!!! Did the dust from the CNC machine get into your camera phone?!?!?
Share. Pics. NAOW!! I find your lack of support for those of us that are living vicariously through your build very unsettling...
Sorry Doug (and OJ). Photos of the sub glue-up and the room progress are at home on my little 4MP digital camera. Home late tomorrow night and taking Friday off to make more progress. Probably get to it over the weekend with lots of updates by Sunday night.


@baniels - the bracing fits like a glove in the mortises with just the right amount of space for the glue. On Friday I will dry fit the whole sub before starting the box glue-up. I have commitment from a woodworking neighbor to borrow 12 of his large clamps so I can glue more boxes at the same time.


QUICK UPDATE:
  • The CNC guy cleaned up his shop on Sunday and sent me an e-mail to say we generated over 250 pounds of scrap and just over ten cubic feet of sawdust for these four subs. Machine time was 9.6 hours.
  • Nick at Stereo Integrity is building my two BHS-24 subs this week and offered to drop them off at my house so he can check out the theater space and sub boxes. Looking forward to having Nick stop by.
  • I ordered two Lumonyx LUM-12 'onyx' 4'x8' panels for the theater columns. Lumonyx is about 20 minutes away from Kris Barber (kblaw2010) so the plan is to pick up the bare panels, cut them to size in Kris' workshop, load up the cut panels and the Procella P815 speakers, nerd out a good chunk of the day in his theater and then make the 14 hour drive home from Dallas over the weekend. Still don't have a confirmed date yet, but likely in mid-April.
  • Drywall WILL be installed in the theater Saturday, April 8th and 9th!! This is a firm date. I ordered the 10 additional sheets of 5/8" x 12' x 54" drywall I'll need for two layers on the theater walls only. It will take another 16 sheets for the ceiling which I will order when I'm ready to install.
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Last edited by TMcG; Today at 06:38 AM.
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post #1882 of 1886 Unread Today, 09:48 AM
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THANK YOU for sharing this dust collection solution, I forwarded it to my CNC guy. As much as I'd like to say this was a complimentary job, he is in business and I compensated him for his efforts. Well worth the $$ for the final product IMHO. I've started the glue-up and am already excited about seeing the end result!!!
Glad to help. Dust collection setup is a pain but well worth it. If he goes with that system he will love it. Only emptying a trash can instead of that clear bag is much easier. Can't wait to see the assembled boxes - that 6/4 MDF is a rare find I've never even seen any. I suppose there are places to order it but very fortunate to find some in the wild as I couldn't think of a better material to use for the boxes.
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post #1883 of 1886 Unread Today, 11:49 AM
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For that to happen you have to actually complete your theater. Just a reminder your build thread started 1 year before my thread and I've had mine up and running for 3 years now. Boom! (Insert cry here)
Damn. That was a hardcore burn David. I guess I'll be that guy that starts a fight and walks away now. You 2 have at it!
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post #1884 of 1886 Unread Today, 01:26 PM
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Damn. That was a hardcore burn David. I guess I'll be that guy that starts a fight and walks away now. You 2 have at it!
He's a big boy...he can handle it. Or next time he needs help installing a door he can find someone else
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post #1885 of 1886 Unread Today, 02:20 PM
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He's a big boy...he can handle it. Or next time he needs help installing a door he can find someone else
Oh snap!

Sick Burns on AVS:
The Savoy = 1.5
The Stonewater = 0.5

Half a point is for seriously good trash talking. Both guys have been on their games.
Hmm....I guess I'm not the guy that walks away after all.
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post #1886 of 1886 Unread Today, 06:28 PM
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Hmm....I guess I'm not the guy that walks away after all.
You're the guy flicking the lights on and of yelling "Fight! Fight! Fight!" lol.

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