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post #91 of 198 Old 07-18-2013, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Just the reality of dealing with subcontractors.  In the end I think it should end up a wash.  



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post #92 of 198 Old 07-19-2013, 04:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Final cosmetic bulkheads and stage.

 

 

 

 



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post #93 of 198 Old 07-22-2013, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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One thing that has continued to baffle me has been whether I really need a sand filled stage. From my perusal of this forum, the most straightforward answer I could find was Mr. Big's who basically said that it was a right of passage for the theater builder to haul 2 tons of sand into his room - preferable wi many stairs involved! :-)

In all seriousness, the best conclusion I could come up with was that it was for the purpose of providing a solid, non-resonant base for subwoofers/speakers. This seemed to be for two purposes. First for acoustic fidelity the subs especially should be on a firm surface. And second, the mass helps absorb vibration that would otherwise be transmitted to adjacent rooms. Am I making valid conclusions?

Since my room is essentially a concrete vault with nothing to the sides or underneath the theater, I wasn't able to see any benefit to trying to reduce direct vibration of adjacent rooms.

With respect to acoustic fidelity, this is something I was very much interested in. But in synthesizing information from the "riser as a bass trap" thread as well as various "how I built my stage" type threads, it seems that a small riser was not going to be an effective bass trap for acoustics, even filled with insulation. At least without some modeling for the appropriate size and placement of holes in the riser. And even with holes in the riser, there is the whole issue of pressure (vs. frequency?) absorption. A lot of thought that just putting insulation in the cavity of the riser would help it act as a broadband absorber of sorts, which seems to be regarded as a good thing.

So in the end, what I've decided to do is to try to give the subs a firm base, not by filling the stage with sand, but making my stage with an empty space behind it that I can use to have the subs rest right on the concrete slab. Not a whole lot more rigid and mass-laden in a residence than a concrete slab.

The Achilles heel that I concede may be an issue is the fact that I realize that vibration travels freely and easily (and for prolonged distances) through things like concrete and railroad tracks. My assumption intuitively, although I have yet to research it directly, is that it is high frequencies that travel long distances. The flanking path that this would use is concrete slab, attached to concrete walls, attached to sill plate, attached to ceiling/floor joists, attached to floor assembly above, attached to walls above, etc.

Thoughts appreciated.


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post #94 of 198 Old 07-22-2013, 07:33 AM
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In all seriousness, the best conclusion I could come up with was that it was for the purpose of providing a solid, non-resonant base for subwoofers/speakers. This seemed to be for two purposes. First for acoustic fidelity the subs especially should be on a firm surface. And second, the mass helps absorb vibration that would otherwise be transmitted to adjacent rooms. Am I making valid conclusions?

Yes, but it also makes it so the stage doesn't function like a drum and create unwanted resonances, even if it is filled with pink fluffy.


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post #95 of 198 Old 07-22-2013, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, but it also makes it so the stage doesn't function like a drum and create unwanted resonances, even if it is filled with pink fluffy.

When I though about this issue before, I remember reading about this potential problem. My thought was that since this stage will be unfinished in the back and carpet will cover the front face, I would just put some holes in the back, front, and/or top to not allow it to develop pressure below the top. Secondly, I'm creating the stage top out of a layer of 1/2" OSB followed by a layer of 5/8" plywood. With green glue in between, I'm hoping that vibration of the stage top will be damped.

From what I've read, these constrained dampening layers actually work better when there at two different substrates joined together.

The remaining criticism with this plan of action are the possible acoustic side effects these holes would impart to the room. But I've been convinced it would not be an effective bass trap.


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post #96 of 198 Old 07-22-2013, 11:57 AM
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I'm hoping that vibration of the stage top will be damped.

To quote James May - "Hope is not a generally acceptable term in engineering" biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

In the absence of being able to test your design, the best you can hope for is an educated guess. I have a feeling the audible differences would be negligible given the steps you are taking. But instead of drilling holes in the vertical parts of your stage (if that's the plan you go with, why not just build a "mini" stud wall and then have the carpet tacked to the top plate, bottom plate and the vertical studding? Seems like that would preserve the maximum amount of open area.


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post #97 of 198 Old 07-22-2013, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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To quote James May - "Hope is not a generally acceptable term in engineering" biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

In the absence of being able to test your design, the best you can hope for is an educated guess. I have a feeling the audible differences would be negligible given the steps you are taking. But instead of drilling holes in the vertical parts of your stage (if that's the plan you go with, why not just build a "mini" stud wall and then have the carpet tacked to the top plate, bottom plate and the vertical studding? Seems like that would preserve the maximum amount of open area.

 

Ha.  Good quote.  I beg to differ, however.  I heard many an engineering student in school saying that they hoped they passed the exam!  :-)

 

I think you mean for the front face of the stage?  

 

In your description, there would be no horizontal surface on top to step on?  

 

Right now, there are 2x6's secured to the floor running back and forth and a "back" 2x6 which all the other ones are nailed into towards the back wall.  The "front" surface is actually a bit of 5/8" plywood wrapped around the ends of the studs.  I think the simplest, fastest, easiest way to open up the stage would be to take off the front piece of plywood and then shorten the top a few inches at the back (behind the screen and speaker walls) where nobody can see anyways.  Otherwise, drilling some holes in the "back" 2x6 would be the other way to go.  I wouldn't think you'd even need that big of a hole system.  As long as the cavity can't be pressurized, wouldn't that eliminate the "drum" issue?



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post #98 of 198 Old 07-22-2013, 03:37 PM
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Forget what I said - I didn't see you already had the stage in place as I just went back through your photos. Therefore no further need to explain my proposed construction any better either. And what I was saying above is that I think only sensitive microphones could probably "see" the difference between a sand-filled vs. pink filled stage in your room....meaning why bother, even with modifying the stage with holes when you probably won't hear the difference. In the past I bought Sound Anchor stands for my B&W Nautilus 802s....I couldn't tell a darn bit of difference between one of the other and that was a high-resolution 2-channel system. In a larger theater environment I think the possibility of hearing the difference is minute. I'd say the biggest benefit of a sand-filled stage - by far - is to mitigate the flanking noise, second would be to avoid resonances in the structure and third would be incremental performance gain from sitting on a solid surface.

Were you considering ripping up your stage just to add the sand?


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post #99 of 198 Old 07-22-2013, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Absolutely not thinking of putting sand in at this point.  Only explaining my rationale for avoiding a sand-filled stage.  I think that I've worked around most of the issues that get brought up with discussions of sand and stages, but I do think that the possibility of stage-as-a-drum has some validity.  Low likelihood given the double OSB/plywood/GG top, but I think that addition of some holes would really alleviate that concern.  I really don't believe I have the need for negating flanking paths since the only thing that is is connected to is the concrete slab.  There are no connections to the walls.  And I am not going to have any speakers resting on the stage.  The in-walls will be mounted (decoupled) to a baffle wall behind my screen wall and the subs should rest on the concrete slab (or on some stone/paver risers if I have to raise them above the top of the stage for some reason.  I guess I was assuming that the 6" tall stage would pose little impedance for 2 JTR Captivators.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.  It's great to have someone to keep you honest...



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post #100 of 198 Old 08-04-2013, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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After a nice week of relaxation in Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks, it's back to trying to get this basement finished.  I was hoping that the guys would have the trim up and paint done in the non-theater parts of the basement.  But no such luck.  At least the doors and trim are up in most of the basement.  

 

The drywall is done.  This is what I ended up with:

 

 

The lobby with the equipment closet

 

 

 

 

The theater room itself.  Gotta figure out where to put all this Linacoustic now.

 

 

 

 

The front stage area.  I have space behind the stage for subwoofers.  The flexible ventilation tube can be seen.  It will eventually mate up with the underside of the bulkhead and ventilate through the slit in the lower bulkhead.  The screen will go a couple of inches behind the recessed lights in the lower bulkhead.  Just one more electrical wire to run between the stage rope light under the front lip of the stage and the rope light that will go along the curved lower bulkhead.

 

I'm actually debating whether to tie the rope light that will go above the screen along the curved lower bulkhead to the Grafik Eye zone that controls the rope light that will go around the rectangular soffit space in the theater or with the rest of the accent lights.  The accent lights will be at the steps, underneath the front lip of the riser, inside the 4 light boxes on the sides of the theater, and underneath the front lip of the stage.

 

I'm thinking that I may want the accent lights dimmed down while watching a movie more than the soffit light.  But I'm definitely undecided on this. Do you think it makes more sense to have the main soffit rope light and the curved soffit rope light at the same level of dimming or the accent lights and the curved soffit rope light at the same level of dimming?

 

I'll have to make a decision this week as I'm hoping that I can get the electricians back next week to start installing switches and lamps in the rest of the basement, assuming that the painters are done this week.



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post #101 of 198 Old 08-04-2013, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Acoustically, is that area behind the stage appropriate for fluffy pink insulation?  Or is something else more appropriate?  I was planning on putting some Linacoustic on the walls back there too.



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post #102 of 198 Old 08-05-2013, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I was going to hold off on getting new electronics until after the theater was done and everything was hooked up.

 

But I've been eyeing some separates from the likes of Emotiva.  Their current budget surround processor didn't have a couple of features I wanted such as balanced outputs but seemed to be a great deal otherwise.

 

I came across Emotiva's sister company Sherbourn which has some higher end products but also sold direct to consumers.  Their surround processor hit all the points on my checklist and they had a sale going on where you bought the processor and they'd throw in a 7 channel, 150WPC amplifier "for free".  Total price of about $1700-1800 didn't seem too bad for the combination.  But what I really had my eye on was their 7 channel 350WPC amplifier, so I fired off a note to their sales department asking if there was a way of bundling these two products together with a similar package discount.

 

Turns out they offered that, and more.  It turns out that they are merging Sherbourn into Emotiva and are liquidating all of their current Sherbourn inventory.  Turns out I could get both the processor and the 7-350 amplifier for $2000.  Seemed like a no-brainer to me, so I ordered them.  Now I really have to get this theater done!

 

Here's the link to their stuff:

 

http://www.sherbourn.com/



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post #103 of 198 Old 08-06-2013, 08:27 AM
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Thanks for the link. I just picked up one of their 7-channel 350W amps as well. Looks impressive!

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!


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post #104 of 198 Old 08-06-2013, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Just got confirmation that mine are shipped already.  How can I get this theater done quicker????

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post #105 of 198 Old 08-06-2013, 12:20 PM
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Just got confirmation that mine are shipped already.  How can I get this theater done quicker????

No kidding! I'm suddenly feeling a lot more motivated! I suspect it has something to do with progress made with a credit card is a lot faster than progress made with a hammer biggrin.gif Or maybe that's just me..... rolleyes.gif

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post #106 of 198 Old 08-06-2013, 12:36 PM
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No, it's NOT just you.

I'm just sayin'.

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Everytime I reply the thread ends
Need motivation? Get LOGANED

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post #107 of 198 Old 08-06-2013, 12:38 PM
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No, it's NOT just you.

I'm just sayin'.

LOL! Thanks for the support, Logan smile.gif

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post #108 of 198 Old 08-06-2013, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah.  I've decided I have to spend less time surfing the web (and finding ways to buy more stuff that I'm not ready for yet) and more time putting together screen walls and baffle walls.  

 

On that note, the final spec for the star ceiling is done and that is going to be ordered today.  I'm close to deciding on carpet.  And I have an idea on how I want to do the fabric walls.  Just have to see if it is buildable in any sort of practical fashion.  Once those pieces are done, it's just a matter of hooking things up!



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post #109 of 198 Old 08-06-2013, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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No kidding! I'm suddenly feeling a lot more motivated! I suspect it has something to do with progress made with a credit card is a lot faster than progress made with a hammer biggrin.gif Or maybe that's just me..... rolleyes.gif

 

Leads me to believe that the DAMAGE possible with a credit card is greater than the DAMAGE possible with a hammer!



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post #110 of 198 Old 08-06-2013, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Sherbourn sure is quick to clear out their stock.  I've heard that their 7-350 amplifier is already sold out.  

 

I received a tracking email from FedEx.  Left Tennessee today and will be in Maryland on Thursday.  I'm hoping to have the day off on Thursday and work on tidying up the stage and getting screen and speaker walls constructed.



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post #111 of 198 Old 08-06-2013, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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In browsing Sherbourn's site again tonight, I found this little gem tucked in there.  It is also being cleared out and seems like a good price for a valuable piece of equipment in any AV rack.  Despite the 7-350 amp being cool running because of its Class H design, I figured this couldn't hurt.  I got two for good measure.  Will put one above the 7-350 and one at the top of the rack.  Electronics don't seem to like the heat.

 

 

The innovative C-12 cooling unit keeps your rack cool, enhancing the performance and reliability of a home theater or whole-house system. Three whisper quiet variable speed fans can move over 100 cubic feet of air per minute.

  • Configurable for front exhaust, rear exhaust, top exhaust
  • Front panel intake includes air filter
  • Offers two exhaust ports and (optional) exhaust hose kit for maximum flexibility
  • Selectable starting temperature (95 or 194 degrees Fahrenheit)
  • 2-year warranty
  • Rack mount ears included

 

Now I definitely have to put the credit card where I can't find it for the next few weeks!



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post #112 of 198 Old 08-06-2013, 08:03 PM
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You might want to go with the lower selectable temperature on that one... wink.gif

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post #113 of 198 Old 08-06-2013, 08:20 PM
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Sherbourn sure is quick to clear out their stock.  I've heard that their 7-350 amplifier is already sold out.  

I received a tracking email from FedEx.  Left Tennessee today and will be in Maryland on Thursday.  I'm hoping to have the day off on Thursday and work on tidying up the stage and getting screen and speaker walls constructed.

I can't say I'm surprised it's sold out. I'd say at $999, that would be a heck of a find even for a used unit!

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post #114 of 198 Old 08-07-2013, 03:26 AM - Thread Starter
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You might want to go with the lower selectable temperature on that one... wink.gif

 

Yeah, I was hoping that was a typo and that it is selectable 95 TO 194 degrees F.  Either that or I can use it to boil eggs in the morning....



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post #115 of 198 Old 08-07-2013, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Dear friends and family,
 
You told us. We listened.
 
You asked, “Why can’t Emotiva do the same thing Sherbourn does?” You told us, “Having two lines is confusing.” And you said, “Why don’t you take the best of Sherbourn and merge it with Emotiva?”
 
As of today, we’re announcing the merger of Sherbourn into Emotiva. In the future, you can look forward to the best, most unique Sherbourn products—revised, improved, and re-launched under the Emotiva or Emotiva Pro names.
 
What does this mean to you?
 
If you already own Sherbourn equipment, don’t worry. Your existing 5- and 10-year warranties remain in effect, supported by Emotiva. Have questions or need help? Call Emotiva, and we’ll take care of you. Remember, you’re talking to the same exact team who supported you in the past.
 
If you don’t yet own any Sherbourn products, the news is even better! We’re having a finalSherbourn Merger Sale with absolutely rock bottom pricing on every product. We’re talking 7-350s for $999! This sale is a great way to join the Emotiva family by buying Sherbourn—all with the same great warranty and support. Oh, and if you buy a product that qualifies for Discount For Life, you get that, too.
 
If you’re interested in buying, do it now. When the equipment is gone, it’s gone. And at these prices, it’ll go very fast. All sales are final.
 
Thank you again for being frank with us, and letting us know that what you really wanted is a unified Emotiva, with a single product line that can span from the desktop audio to complex custom integration products.
 
We heard you. And that’s exactly what we’re going to deliver. We will continue to design and build phenomenal gear at unheard of prices supported by the best customer and technical service team in the industry.
 
 
With sincere appreciation and thanks,
 
All the best,

 
 
Dan Laufman
CEO, Emotiva Group
President, Sherbourn

dan_sig_sherb.jpg

© 2013 Sherbourn Technologies LLC, All rights reserved.

131 SE Parkway Court
Franklin, TN 37064


customerservice@sherbourn.com
 


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post #116 of 198 Old 08-08-2013, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RossoDiamante View Post

In browsing Sherbourn's site again tonight, I found this little gem tucked in there. ...

This post cost me $138 this morning.... I also ordered 2

Great find though

BTW.. that is a typo the range is 95 to 104

When I saw this post and looked through the unit specs I got the idea that this could possibly be adapted as a hush box fan.
If i compare this to what is considered one of the premiere solution for a hush box fan the "Cool Cube" ($400+ solution), this looks like it could be a cost effective alternative

The cool cube has high/ low of 35/70 Cfm compared to the C-12 at 100 for direct so expect reduction using exhaust
Thermal controls at 95 and 104 compared to the CC at 90 and 100
The C-12 is a little larger at 2.5"x 9" x 16.7" (with rack ears removed) compared to the CC at 6.5”w x 8”h x 10”l
What is interesting is the exhaust options for the c-12
-Bottom Entry - Front Exhaust
-Bottom Entry - Rear Exhaust (can optionally be ducted using 1-1/2” hose x 2)
-Front Entry - Top Exhaust
-Bottom Entry - Top Exhaust

The only real unknown is how loud it is in operation , the CC is 18-30DBa depending on fan speed and exhaust configuration.. Hopefully the C-12 "Whisper quiet fans" will be acceptable.

Thought Id share the idea while they are still available at this price.... We'll see if it works, If not I'll have two for my racks.

Brad


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post #117 of 198 Old 08-08-2013, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Happy to spread the financial pain around....



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post #118 of 198 Old 08-08-2013, 09:57 AM
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This may not be needed but I found this kit recently for "cabinet cooling":

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/12391/fan-cab-05/CabCool_1202_Dual_120mm_Cabinet_Cooling_Kit_w_Thermal_Control.html?tl=g54c503s1372

It comes with thermal control, 2 fans + bracket, and an AC/DC power converter for $68. I think this is exactly what *I* need for my cooling situation, as always, YMMV.
Probably the same as the other kits, this turns on at 84 degrees and then turns off when the temp gets to 81 degrees. I like this because it should run after the equipment is off, until it gets to a more reasonable temperature. So once it's hooked up correctly, it's pretty much "automated".


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post #119 of 198 Old 08-09-2013, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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The fiberoptic star ceiling has been ordered.

 

Working on the fabric walls now.  I know most everyone uses FR701, but has anyone tested or used Sensa?:

 

http://www.guilfordofmaine.com/acoustic/panel/swatches/9218-0

 

The acoustic performance graph looks as good as FR701.



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post #120 of 198 Old 08-13-2013, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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It's a bit frustrating being out of town for a week knowing how much more I need to get done quickly.  But I've been busy ordering stuff!

 

Light trims and a combination of wide and narrow beam bulbs have been ordered.

 

I have ordered samples of some carpet and fabric to help me make that final decision when I get home.

 

The flooring outside of the theater is getting installed this week.  Everything inside the theater is sort of pending my caulking the perimeter and finishing the stage area.  Then it should be pretty short work in terms of getting the walls primed and painted.  Then the speakers will go in and I will do some preliminary room measurements "in the buff".

 

In preparation for that, I have downloaded the REW software and ordered a MiniDSP UMIK-1.  Has anyone used this setup to do basic room measurements. Anything else that I need to acquire before I get started?



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