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post #91 of 121 Old 06-07-2014, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Got some work put in today, no exciting pictures since its all pretty boring: started hanging drywall + gg between the joists.

I've learned a couple things since this is the first time doing any of this and I'm doing it all by myself:

- 4'x9'x5/8" drywall is HEAVY. And next to impossible to handle alone. I need to build a couple drywall rollers so I can set the drywall on one and roll it along the ground without damaging the corners. Since I've only been doing joist duty, I don't really care how the drywall looks but when I get to the actual walls I need to have it perfected so I don't damage the drywall panels.

- Green glue sucks. While not technically an adhesive, it still is sticky as hell. Is it a rite of passage in this forum to get a big drop of green glue in your hair? Because if so, mission accomplished. I'm now wearing hats when doing this.

Got about 1/3 of the joists done, but time to head to the Fairfax Fair.

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post #92 of 121 Old 06-23-2014, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Perhaps a dumb question, but what is this?

It is a rebar hook embedded in the foundation. The builder had his framing notched for it, and I followed suit. But I'm wondering if I can cut it off or if it serves some purpose? The reason I ask is because it bends towards the drywall and I can't bend it so it won't hit the back of the drywall and I'm concerned about the 2 ported 18" subs causing enough vibration in the wall to start banging that thing.

If it does serve an important purpose, then maybe I can heat it up with a torch and bend it back further than it currently is...

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post #93 of 121 Old 06-23-2014, 08:34 PM
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Just some ideas: could be a leftover from some sort of material handling or concrete form work when building, OR, could be a ground connection to houses rebar for electrical. I think some building codes may require that from a quick google search...
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post #94 of 121 Old 06-23-2014, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Just some ideas: could be a leftover from some sort of material handling or concrete form work when building, OR, could be a ground connection to houses rebar for electrical. I think some building codes may require that from a quick google search...
I was thinking the first... not so much the second since nothing was hooked up to it (at least outside the concrete)... unless it was meant to be a grounding connection that was put in the wrong place and not removed since it is nowhere near the electrical panel.

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post #95 of 121 Old 06-24-2014, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking the first... not so much the second since nothing was hooked up to it (at least outside the concrete)... unless it was meant to be a grounding connection that was put in the wrong place and not removed since it is nowhere near the electrical panel.
In thinking about it, I believe I remember something about the builder saying the original electrical panel would be in the home theater. And I told him this was unacceptable so he ended up finding another place in the house to put it.

Stands to reason if this was the case then the workers probably put this here for ground thinking the panel would be here but it was actually somewhere else.

So I think its time to cut it off.

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post #96 of 121 Old 06-24-2014, 02:48 PM
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In thinking about it, I believe I remember something about the builder saying the original electrical panel would be in the home theater. And I told him this was unacceptable so he ended up finding another place in the house to put it.

Stands to reason if this was the case then the workers probably put this here for ground thinking the panel would be here but it was actually somewhere else.

So I think its time to cut it off.
You could always use this as a design feature... Stick with me here... It could be the ground connection for a flux capacitor for a Back to the Future theater. If power is req'd to be 1.21 gW, voltage is 220VAC, then...
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post #97 of 121 Old 06-24-2014, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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You could always use this as a design feature... Stick with me here... It could be the ground connection for a flux capacitor for a Back to the Future theater. If power is req'd to be 1.21 gW, voltage is 220VAC, then...
I'm digging it. The problem is its behind the screen wall. So I might have to completely rethink my theater now so that corner of the room would be the focal point.... hmmmmmmmmmmm

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post #98 of 121 Old 06-27-2014, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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So here's my ideas (with help from Jeff) for the dead vent between the theater and my HVAC system. This will be for adding an air return into the back corner of the theater (in the soffit). I have an area about 34"x24" available in my HVAC area that I'll be building it in.

Basically, I bore a 8" hole through my drywall shell into my eventual soffit location. This is then hooked up to 8" flex (R6) which snakes down through a insulated DD+GG box to the floor and then snakes around a divider of DD+GG and back up to the top of the dead vent and out through the roof of it (which dumps right into a joist bay that I can use to pull the flex over to my existing HVAC return.

Does this seem like a decent idea for sound containment on the return side of things?

Here is a couple sketchups of the concept. The red wall is the DD+GG divider wall I snake around.

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post #99 of 121 Old 06-27-2014, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemsonJeeper View Post
So here's my ideas (with help from Jeff) for the dead vent between the theater and my HVAC system. This will be for adding an air return into the back corner of the theater (in the soffit). I have an area about 34"x24" available in my HVAC area that I'll be building it in.

Basically, I bore a 8" hole through my drywall shell into my eventual soffit location. This is then hooked up to 8" flex (R6) which snakes down through a insulated DD+GG box to the floor and then snakes around a divider of DD+GG and back up to the top of the dead vent and out through the roof of it (which dumps right into a joist bay that I can use to pull the flex over to my existing HVAC return.

Does this seem like a decent idea for sound containment on the return side of things?
I think it seems good for sound containment, but I am wondering about the connection to the houses main return. Are you planning to run the whole house air handler all the time to ensure you are getting some turns/hour for your sealed room? If not, perhaps you should consider adding a Fantech fan to the equation to force air movement. Then the discussion leads to if you want to tie in that exhaust flow to the whole house return, or to another area in the outside space to mix...
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post #100 of 121 Old 06-27-2014, 09:24 AM
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If you want to take it the last mile get true Acoustical flex duct. Not required but on paper it makes sense. Home Depot flex duct uses a plastic liner, this design uses an acoustically transparent fabric so more sound is absorbed as the the sound travels longitudinally through the duct.

just one example:

http://www.flexmasterusa.com/Portals...%20Revised.pdf
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post #101 of 121 Old 06-27-2014, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PApilgrim View Post
I think it seems good for sound containment, but I am wondering about the connection to the houses main return. Are you planning to run the whole house air handler all the time to ensure you are getting some turns/hour for your sealed room? If not, perhaps you should consider adding a Fantech fan to the equation to force air movement. Then the discussion leads to if you want to tie in that exhaust flow to the whole house return, or to another area in the outside space to mix...
Well, how do other sealed home theaters with normal supply/returns do it?

I don't mind turning on the fan in the house when we are using the theater (assuming that we don't have the heat/cold on depending on the season when we're in there). In fact I could tie the Insteon switches I use throughout the house (and plan on using in the theater) into the mix so that it automatically turns on the HVAC fan when the theater is in use and turns it off (or back to normal) when its not.

If I went the fantech route, would I just dump the return air from the theater into the unfinished HVAC handler area? How does it handle a situation in a sealed room where the fan/AC is not on (eg: not supplying air to the room) and the fantech is pulling air from the room?

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post #102 of 121 Old 06-27-2014, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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If you want to take it the last mile get true Acoustical flex duct. Not required but on paper it makes sense. Home Depot flex duct uses a plastic liner, this design uses an acoustically transparent fabric so more sound is absorbed as the the sound travels longitudinally through the duct.

just one example:

http://www.flexmasterusa.com/Portals...%20Revised.pdf
Yeah, I had thought about trying to source something like that but decided that the efforts of the dead vent are going to be sufficient enough for me. That and I already have 50' of 6" R6 and 50' of 8" r6 HD flex sitting in my basement.

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post #103 of 121 Old 06-29-2014, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally got some time to work on the theater. Today was Dead Vent Building Sunday.

This is the plan:



This is the space that the dead vent for the return is going to go:



Box framed out:



Dead vent with 2 DD + GG walls done:



Pulling the 8" flex into the theater:



Side before the middle divider wall was placed:



You can see where the middle divider wall (DD+GG) will go (on the stud that is installed with brackets). I forgot to take a photo of the "after" but the middle wall travels down to the bottom where the flex loops around. I filled the area with insulation before sealing up:



And job done:



I still have to decide if I want to install a fantech at the top of the dead vent to aid in pulling air out. If I decided to do that, what do you do, just run a wire from the fantech to the furnace "fan" sensor so it will turn on when the furnace fan is on?
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post #104 of 121 Old 06-30-2014, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
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I still have to decide if I want to install a fantech at the top of the dead vent to aid in pulling air out. If I decided to do that, what do you do, just run a wire from the fantech to the furnace "fan" sensor so it will turn on when the furnace fan is on?
Looking good. Sorry I did not see your earlier question - I subscribed to make my addiction to this forum even more permanent.

If you do not plan to manually kick on the house furnace each time you plan to use the room, and assuming you plan to build a completely sealed aquarium, you are definitely going to need some sort of circulation. This would mean, at a minimum, (2) ports into your room: (1) port for fresh inlet air perhaps w/out a fan, and (1) port to exhausting air from the theater w/ a fan.

I am planning on my build having (2) fans to ensure that I get good air exchange and can dial in the mix. There are legacy threads on here equating the sealed room to an engine where you need adequate intake and exhaust and both sized accordingly. Check out my build thread if you want a couple images to use for better understanding; RED piping is to be the hot exhaust air, and the BLUE flex is the fresh air in. I have them both mixing then with the air in the surrounding basement. I did not want any tie in to my whole house HVAC's, so I am electing to add a Mits. MiniSplit to take care of HVAC for the room (again, more info in the thread).

So, your deadvent looks good to me - add a fan, IMO. If you still plan to duct this into your whole house return network, you will want a way to manually turn this on when you plan to use the theater. I think exhausting air into the return even when your house fan isnt running should still work OK. It would result in a little but of "supercharging" effect to the Fantech when your whole house unit is running. Most of these Fantech setups seem to settle on running the fan at 1/2-3/4 speed, so I do not see this is a HUGE issue. I really think you still need a way to get fresh air IN if you continue down your path. If you want to stick with one fan, I would put it on the return, and then cut a bigger hole for fresh air inlet so that there is less restriction than on the exhaust.

I am by no means an expert, but have been reading up on this topic a lot and am just behind you in terms of room progress. I hope the info is helpful.
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post #105 of 121 Old 06-30-2014, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking good. Sorry I did not see your earlier question - I subscribed to make my addiction to this forum even more permanent.

If you do not plan to manually kick on the house furnace each time you plan to use the room, and assuming you plan to build a completely sealed aquarium, you are definitely going to need some sort of circulation. This would mean, at a minimum, (2) ports into your room: (1) port for fresh inlet air perhaps w/out a fan, and (1) port to exhausting air from the theater w/ a fan.

I am planning on my build having (2) fans to ensure that I get good air exchange and can dial in the mix. There are legacy threads on here equating the sealed room to an engine where you need adequate intake and exhaust and both sized accordingly. Check out my build thread if you want a couple images to use for better understanding; RED piping is to be the hot exhaust air, and the BLUE flex is the fresh air in. I have them both mixing then with the air in the surrounding basement. I did not want any tie in to my whole house HVAC's, so I am electing to add a Mits. MiniSplit to take care of HVAC for the room (again, more info in the thread).

So, your deadvent looks good to me - add a fan, IMO. If you still plan to duct this into your whole house return network, you will want a way to manually turn this on when you plan to use the theater. I think exhausting air into the return even when your house fan isnt running should still work OK. It would result in a little but of "supercharging" effect to the Fantech when your whole house unit is running. Most of these Fantech setups seem to settle on running the fan at 1/2-3/4 speed, so I do not see this is a HUGE issue. I really think you still need a way to get fresh air IN if you continue down your path. If you want to stick with one fan, I would put it on the return, and then cut a bigger hole for fresh air inlet so that there is less restriction than on the exhaust.

I am by no means an expert, but have been reading up on this topic a lot and am just behind you in terms of room progress. I hope the info is helpful.
Thank you for your detailed response. It is definitely helpful!

I think for now I will just plan on running the fan for the HVAC system at a minimum when the room is in use. The room has 2 fresh air supplies from the HVAC system so that should supply plenty of air. To be honest in my area, there isn't a very long period of time where the HVAC *isnt* being used. Spring and Fall and only for a couple weeks. The Winters get cooold here, and the summers get super humid and hot, so the HVAC system is pretty much running most of the time.

And like I mentioned before, I can make a "Fan" button on my Insteon keypad right inside the theater that ties into my home automation server that tells the HVAC unit to kick its fan on (if its not on already). And add a timer on the button so it auto turns off in 3-4 hours (if you forget to turn it back) that sets it back to normal mode. I think that pretty much solves that problem.

The only last part is the decision of adding a fantech just to help out the HVAC system pull air through the dead vent. Just hook it up so that it turns on when the "FAN" button is pressed - would be really easy to implement as well.... Hmm maybe I'll just go ahead and do that anyway regardless of if I actually need it or not. Those fans only cost a couple hundred dollars it looks like...

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post #106 of 121 Old 06-30-2014, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
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Well, how do other sealed home theaters with normal supply/returns do it?

I don't mind turning on the fan in the house when we are using the theater (assuming that we don't have the heat/cold on depending on the season when we're in there). In fact I could tie the Insteon switches I use throughout the house (and plan on using in the theater) into the mix so that it automatically turns on the HVAC fan when the theater is in use and turns it off (or back to normal) when its not.
this is what I d turn on the fan to exchange the air with the rest of the up stairs. I just need to get on the Insteon band wagon like you and automate it.
If I went the fantech route, would I just dump the return air from the theater into the unfinished HVAC handler area? How does it handle a situation in a sealed room where the fan/AC is not on (eg: not supplying air to the room) and the fantech is pulling air from the room?
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post #107 of 121 Old 06-30-2014, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Tied up the loose knots left over from last night. Joined a run of 8" Flex from the top of the dead vent around my unfinished HVAC area to the return on the air handler. Cut a hole in it and attached the flex to it.

Joined to the top of the dead vent. If I decide I am not getting good air flow I'll add the fantech where this joint is - shouldn't be a big deal:



Routing it to the HVAC unit (ideally, I would have gone around the back of the room but we are limited in storage and that would have taken up a good bit of storage on the top of the shelves I have in this room:



Tied into the return for the first floor & basement air handler:



I verified that it was indeed sucking air in on the theater side of the run (hooray!). Feels pretty significant too. I ended up tying that end off for now because I don't want to suck all my construction junk into the HVAC system.

Next up is finish attaching the 6" flex to the 5" rigid metal coming into the theater, then finish wiring, insulate, then finally drywall!
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post #108 of 121 Old 07-01-2014, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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So I'm having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around projector placement. I don't have a projector in mind since that's pretty far away, but since I'm trying to put the projector in the soffit, I'm trying to get everything planned out before I put drywall up. If I can't put it in the soffit, then I need to plan projector placement hanging in the room somewhere.

My question is about lens shift. I'm using the Sony VPL-HW55ES for an example. In their manual they said you can have 71% vertical lens shift. What exactly does that mean? I can mount the projector up to 71% of the screen height above the center of the screen or the top of the screen? I haven't ever set up a projector before so its a pretty noob question, I'm sure.

Basically, the screen size I'm looking at is 130" wide 2.39, 54" vertical. If I mount the projector 44" above the center of the screen (which puts it in the soffit, about 16" above the top of the screen), am I okay?

This also puts me at about a 17'-18' throw as well. Is this an acceptable throw for modern $4k and under projectors?

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post #109 of 121 Old 07-01-2014, 07:53 AM
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make sure you block the new vent off while you are making dust you do not want it through the entire house
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post #110 of 121 Old 07-01-2014, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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make sure you block the new vent off while you are making dust you do not want it through the entire house
Yup, definitely already did that. My basement is pretty much covered in a layer of drywall dust anyway even though I've been trying to keep it all to a minimum and keep cleaning as I go. Once I get drywall completely done I'm going to have to go on a basement cleaning mission.

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post #111 of 121 Old 07-02-2014, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemsonJeeper View Post
So I'm having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around projector placement. I don't have a projector in mind since that's pretty far away, but since I'm trying to put the projector in the soffit, I'm trying to get everything planned out before I put drywall up. If I can't put it in the soffit, then I need to plan projector placement hanging in the room somewhere.

My question is about lens shift. I'm using the Sony VPL-HW55ES for an example. In their manual they said you can have 71% vertical lens shift. What exactly does that mean? I can mount the projector up to 71% of the screen height above the center of the screen or the top of the screen? I haven't ever set up a projector before so its a pretty noob question, I'm sure.

Basically, the screen size I'm looking at is 130" wide 2.39, 54" vertical. If I mount the projector 44" above the center of the screen (which puts it in the soffit, about 16" above the top of the screen), am I okay?

This also puts me at about a 17'-18' throw as well. Is this an acceptable throw for modern $4k and under projectors?
I was gong to put mine in the rear soffit and planed for it but with a 125" wide 2.0:1 screen I needed all the light the panasonic AE-8000 can give me so I ended up mounting it right in front of the soffit on a down rod vise flush. It was no issue since the cables wew now slightly behind the projector. I ended being about 16' 6" from the screen vise 18' orginaly planed for. I guess what I am saying if you go for a really large screen, and who don't around here, than you will still be ok runing your cables to the soffit.
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post #112 of 121 Old 07-02-2014, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I was gong to put mine in the rear soffit and planed for it but with a 125" wide 2.0:1 screen I needed all the light the panasonic AE-8000 can give me so I ended up mounting it right in front of the soffit on a down rod vise flush. It was no issue since the cables wew now slightly behind the projector. I ended being about 16' 6" from the screen vise 18' orginaly planed for. I guess what I am saying if you go for a really large screen, and who don't around here, than you will still be ok runing your cables to the soffit.
I think I *may* have come up with a solution.

Soffit will be 12" high now instead of 10" (letting me drop my projector 2 more inches). I will also raise the screen height about 6".

This lets me put a projector with as low as about 60% vertical lens shift in my soffit. I am waiting on Cedia projectors but assuming I had to buy today I would probably go with the Sony VPL-HW55ES which has a 71% vertical lens shift so I should be fine. I also could raise the screen a bit more if I needed to. If I pair the Sony VPL-HW55ES (which doesn't have lens memory) up with a Lumagen Mini 3D I think that would get me what I want. The throw distance would be about 16' 4" too, so I think I'll be good with brightness.

That all being said, I still will likely screw a layer of OSB in the ceiling & run a short run of conduit around where the projector would have to be ceiling mounted just to be safe in case all these plans end up blowing up after I put drywall up.

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post #113 of 121 Old 07-02-2014, 11:59 AM
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lens shift at least for the panasonic starts from the edge (top or bottom) and (side to side) for the panasonic. You can go above the top edge x amount depending on the chart and size of screen so 70% would be nice I think you are good.
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post #114 of 121 Old 07-07-2014, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm second guessing my speaker placement right now. Want everything to be perfect since drywall is about to go up.

This is my current plan:



The 4 black boxes are Volt-10 in angled down enclosures.

Are they too high for side/rear surrounds?

Since I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to wire for Atmos (I would want to do 4 ceiling speakers), I wonder if there is enough height difference between the Atmos in ceiling speakers and these speakers to make a difference?

Any suggestions? (BTW the Volt 10s are already built and sitting in my basement)
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post #115 of 121 Old 07-07-2014, 09:10 AM
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Not sure about the speakers, but I'm definitely digging the disco balls.

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Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
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post #116 of 121 Old 07-07-2014, 12:02 PM
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I located my side and rear surrounds similar to yours; high and angled down. In the past I played around with lower mounting locations but found that I like the "flyover" affect. The announcement that Dolby Atmos will arrive in home theaters for the fall has me asking the same question as you are here. If I were designing a theater right now (and when I rebuild mine in the future), I would definately move the side and rear surrounds down to mid-wall to provide 3D separation of the height speakers.

With UHD video & object based sound just around the corner...the next few years are going to be exciting for us home theater enthusiasts!

.
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post #117 of 121 Old 07-07-2014, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post
I located my side and rear surrounds similar to yours; high and angled down. In the past I played around with lower mounting locations but found that I like the "flyover" affect. The announcement that Dolby Atmos will arrive in home theaters for the fall has me asking the same question as you are here. If I were designing a theater right now (and when I rebuild mine in the future), I would definately move the side and rear surrounds down to mid-wall to provide 3D separation of the height speakers.

With UHD video & object based sound just around the corner...the next few years are going to be exciting for us home theater enthusiasts!
Yeah, I am thinking the same thing. I chose the angled Volt 10s when I had my original plan before I did demo & found the extra space behind the framed wall and flipped the room. I needed to keep them high due to the width of the room & having an aisle on both sides (so people didn't run into the speaker).

Now that I have this new plan, I wonder if dropping them just a little bit (see this photo) would make a difference and if the angled Volt 10's would still be a decent choice.

Or if I should just go ahead and choose new surrounds right now (perhaps non-angled Volt 10s).

Feel free to chime in with any thoughts. It seems as soon as I make one decision, 2 questions get created...

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post #118 of 121 Old 07-08-2014, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemsonJeeper View Post
Yeah, I am thinking the same thing. I chose the angled Volt 10s when I had my original plan before I did demo & found the extra space behind the framed wall and flipped the room. I needed to keep them high due to the width of the room & having an aisle on both sides (so people didn't run into the speaker).

Now that I have this new plan, I wonder if dropping them just a little bit (see this photo) would make a difference and if the angled Volt 10's would still be a decent choice.

Or if I should just go ahead and choose new surrounds right now (perhaps non-angled Volt 10s).

Feel free to chime in with any thoughts. It seems as soon as I make one decision, 2 questions get created...
With Atmos in mind, I would drop the angled Volts like you have in your pic, then when you're ready to go with ceiling speakers, buy the non angled volts, swap them out and then place the angled ones in/on the soffits. You might even find you prefer having the surrounds angled. My surrounds are located a bit lower than the height you placed them in your sketchup and they sound great but I could imagine they would sound better if they were angled towards my ears when seated.

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post #119 of 121 Old 07-14-2014, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Some updates. I decided to punt Atmos for now as it completely froze my build and I don't feel like waiting another 2 months to maybe get some info on it. I went ahead and pulled 4x 12 gauge speaker wire to ceiling locations nearby where I think would make sense for Atmos placement. If I decide to go that route, I'll just cut into my ceiling and work on backer boxes to keep the soundproofed shell.

I also decided to run conduit to a normal ceiling location where I would hang a projector. I'd like to hide the projector in my soffit, but that will bring it back another couple feet (and be above the screen), so I need to leave my options open. If the in-soffit idea works, I'll just leave the conduit hidden in the ceiling.

So since the last update I've:

1) Pulled 9 12 gauge speaker runs to the front wall. The plan is:

3 - LCR
2 - Subwoofer

2 - Unused for extra subs later
2 - Unused for height/wide speakers, or whatever
2) Pulled 3x Cat6 to front wall for unknown/future uses
3) Pulled 4x 12 gauge speaker wire for surrounds
4) Pulled 4x 12 gauge speaker wire for Atmos (to be left in ceiling)
5) Finished electric cable pulling for front screen wash as well as speaker wash
6) Pulled electric for riser lighting, riser outlets
7) Pulled electric for soffit lights, soffit black lights (for charging night sky mural), and outlets (for custom LED RGB strip light project)
8) Pulled down the old can lights that I'm not using
9) Insulated entire room with R13 in walls and R19 in ceiling (still have a couple more places to do in the ceiling)
10) Drywalled outside of room where double french door previously was
11) Installed whisper clips and hat channel on wall that was not decoupled

Next up is whisper clips & channel on the ceiling (I will need blocking in certain spots), then finally DRYWALL!! We have our big annual party next month so that was my one hard deadline - need to get the 4x9 5/8" drywall that is sitting in our basement entertainment area hung up before then.

View from screen wall corner to back of theater



View from back of theater to screen wall



View from back of theater to screen wall

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post #120 of 121 Old 07-15-2014, 11:30 AM
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Some buildout! I am glad I am 99.9% done!
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