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post #181 of 535 Old 05-19-2013, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Soffit problems...

check out the drawing, every pixel is 1/4" square


vertical cross section by jcwillia1, on Flickr

short of making some fairly ridiculous tradeoffs on the riser vs mini-riser (mini riser not drawn), there's just no way for me to get head clearance for myself in the second row.

hey wait a second - why can't the ceiling vents run on top of the walls? Essentially start the vent right at the joist instead of creating a channeled ceiling first and then putting the vent underneath? Then just run your sound proof box over that?
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post #182 of 535 Old 05-19-2013, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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more work on design today - narrowed the riser, added the PJ (that is as FAR BACK as it can go for 10' wide), added soffits, moved a door, added the stairs location, added the PJ throw range...

getting to the point where I need professionals to give me advice. I made the soffits nice and wide (18") just assuming there would be a ton of room I would need. 18" may not even be enough.


Theater Complete - 0519 by jcwillia1, on Flickr
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post #183 of 535 Old 05-19-2013, 06:06 PM
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Why is there so much space behind your chairs in the diagram? Move them back to just ahead of the bar. The steps are drawn in the wrong location and orientation. run them front to back just ahead of the chairs, skip those ones at the rear of the riser. Move the bar forward 6 inches and make the riser 6 1/2 deep, your bar top doesn't need to be 24 inches wide, think about 18 inches.
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post #184 of 535 Old 05-19-2013, 06:24 PM
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post #185 of 535 Old 05-19-2013, 07:40 PM
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Couple of points that I hope will help. Furnace clearance ; follow the manufacturers recommendations , BUT make sure you leave enough room around it for easy service in the future if you can . It would suck if a repairman had to bust open a wall to service your equipment , the manufacturers listing is usually the minimum clearance for safety , not for servicing .
Second hopefully helpful point ; talk to people you know who have hired electricians and are happy with them , it's MUCH cheaper in the long run to hire someone whos skilled , with references you trust up front .Just because your general is using someone does not mean he's the best choice. Having said that , without doing the engineering for you or entering the "how many circuits" argument specifically , I would recommend having an electric sub-panel installed in the basement , maybe in the a/v room , and have all the runs from your theater room ( conduit and romex) run to a junction box that then goes to the sub panel. That would give you the best shot at a "modular" electrical installation , and the most flexibility. Properly applied , if you found that you had too many things on one breaker , you could separate them at the junction box then place them on multiple breakers. Probably loosing a lot in the translation , but a good electrician will be able to set you up .

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post #186 of 535 Old 05-20-2013, 02:40 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks for that - I was concerned about the ability to recline the chairs fully.

Big, do you have any suggestions on soffits for HVAC? I'm really concerned about head room (joists are 7'9" from floor) is but those runs are so long I don't think I can get away with just flexible ducts.
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post #187 of 535 Old 05-20-2013, 02:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Couple of points that I hope will help. Furnace clearance ; follow the manufacturers recommendations , BUT make sure you leave enough room around it for easy service in the future if you can . It would suck if a repairman had to bust open a wall to service your equipment , the manufacturers listing is usually the minimum clearance for safety , not for servicing .
Second hopefully helpful point ; talk to people you know who have hired electricians and are happy with them , it's MUCH cheaper in the long run to hire someone whos skilled , with references you trust up front .Just because your general is using someone does not mean he's the best choice. Having said that , without doing the engineering for you or entering the "how many circuits" argument specifically , I would recommend having an electric sub-panel installed in the basement , maybe in the a/v room , and have all the runs from your theater room ( conduit and romex) run to a junction box that then goes to the sub panel. That would give you the best shot at a "modular" electrical installation , and the most flexibility. Properly applied , if you found that you had too many things on one breaker , you could separate them at the junction box then place them on multiple breakers. Probably loosing a lot in the translation , but a good electrician will be able to set you up .

Yes, I appreciate the need for an electrician but I will probably have to be my own GC - I just can't afford that expense in the short term.

Thanks for responses guys!
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post #188 of 535 Old 05-20-2013, 03:02 AM - Thread Starter
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ok so here's the part where you all yell at me but I have to keep this thing on a budget which means I can wait 5 years before I can afford the theater I really want or build in phases. I'm working on costing out both phases. I think the fact that I drew up what the end state will be will help me not cut corners for phase 1.

Here is my mockup for phase 1.


Theater Phase 1 - 0519 by jcwillia1, on Flickr

(BTW, house news is heating up considerably - we've picked a lot and we're going to start talking contract next week - exciting times in my house!)
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post #189 of 535 Old 05-26-2013, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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anyone have thoughts and / or best guesses about where to place electrical sockets and sconce lighting? In looking at the arthouse thread it looked like he had sconces about every 5 feet or so.

here's my rough mockup : every red plug is where an electrical outlet and sconce would go. Once again, I want to make sure I have my final design figured out before I back into my "Phase 1" build.


Theater Complete - 0526 by jcwillia1, on Flickr
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post #190 of 535 Old 05-28-2013, 09:15 PM
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I don't see power for your PJ on your last plan , whatever you do , don't forget that! biggrin.gif . I totally understand not being able to afford to hire an electrician , we're expensive as hell . You said each of your red markers was location for sconce and receptacle , what are the outlets for ? convenience plugs , or are they for power seats or something else that will always be plugged in ? Will this build be inspected or are you flying under the inspectors radar ? All of this will affect how you wire your setup . Load calculations for what you will be powering so you know what wire gauge and circuit breaker size you need , number of circuits you'll need , and code even calls for a certain number of receptacles , based on linear feet of wall . There could be additional local codes I don't know about. You are also required to have AFCI protection for everything in your house that is not protected by GFCI , which I can tell you from recent experience could be a problem at your rack. I just worked on a house that another contractor wired , had to bring it up to code , and the power conditioner they had kept tripping AFCI breakers. I don't know why as I'm a newbie with HT , but I tested the circuit completely , replaced the breaker with a known good one , and the only way I could get the circuit to operate without tripping the AFCI breaker was to remove the power conditioner.
I'm not trying to discourage you from doing it yourself , and I'll be happy to help with what I can so you can get your project finished , or shut up and get the hell out of the way , I don't want to step on any toes. Either way , best of luck and I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.

Edit : something to consider , you should be able to have an electrical contractor do the engineering for the project without doing the labor , then you would (hopefully) have everything safe and code compliant , it would be considerably cheaper than having them do the whole job.

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post #191 of 535 Old 05-29-2013, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't see power for your PJ on your last plan , whatever you do , don't forget that! biggrin.gif . I totally understand not being able to afford to hire an electrician , we're expensive as hell . You said each of your red markers was location for sconce and receptacle , what are the outlets for ? convenience plugs , or are they for power seats or something else that will always be plugged in ? Will this build be inspected or are you flying under the inspectors radar ? All of this will affect how you wire your setup . Load calculations for what you will be powering so you know what wire gauge and circuit breaker size you need , number of circuits you'll need , and code even calls for a certain number of receptacles , based on linear feet of wall . There could be additional local codes I don't know about. You are also required to have AFCI protection for everything in your house that is not protected by GFCI , which I can tell you from recent experience could be a problem at your rack. I just worked on a house that another contractor wired , had to bring it up to code , and the power conditioner they had kept tripping AFCI breakers. I don't know why as I'm a newbie with HT , but I tested the circuit completely , replaced the breaker with a known good one , and the only way I could get the circuit to operate without tripping the AFCI breaker was to remove the power conditioner.
I'm not trying to discourage you from doing it yourself , and I'll be happy to help with what I can so you can get your project finished , or shut up and get the hell out of the way , I don't want to step on any toes. Either way , best of luck and I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.

Edit : something to consider , you should be able to have an electrical contractor do the engineering for the project without doing the labor , then you would (hopefully) have everything safe and code compliant , it would be considerably cheaper than having them do the whole job.

I don't recall saying I didn't want an electrician but if I could avoid the expense I would. Seeing as how I have zero knowledge or experience of working with Romex, conduit and circuit breakers, I'm going to have to bring someone in who does, licensed electrician or not.

Thanks for the advice - I'm expecting this to be a fairly modest build to begin with and then scale up as the years go by. For starters all I will really need is power for the PJ, some wall sconces and the HTIB. However I don't want to cut myself off from going to "fully bright" later on which is why I am asking all the questions I am now.

We STILL don't have a price on the house so there's STILL nothing for me to do. Getting impatient - can you tell? smile.gif

Once the construction gets officially signed, then I will start taking it to the next level - I have several people in mind for consultation and we also attend a very large church full of people who do just this kind of work so the referral network is almost endless. But first we have to get to that signature...
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post #192 of 535 Old 05-30-2013, 03:16 AM - Thread Starter
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question - can you apply green glue plus a second layer of drywall to a painted wall?

Let's say for example I only wanted to do one layer of drywall for my first phase of construction - can I finish the phase one room with one layer and then come back later and add the second?
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post #193 of 535 Old 05-30-2013, 03:28 AM
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Green Glue isn't a glue, so if it's between two sheets with or without paint shouldn't do any difference, you have to screw the 2nd sheet no matter what.

Under construction: the Larch theater
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post #194 of 535 Old 05-30-2013, 04:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok cool. I keep looking at the budget for this and it keeps getting smaller. smile.gif

As I've said all along the goal is to not cut myself off in the process so that I can "finish" it when resources become available.
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post #195 of 535 Old 05-30-2013, 04:42 AM
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Ok cool. I keep looking at the budget for this and it keeps getting smaller. smile.gif

So THAT's why mine is growing! mad.gif ( biggrin.gif )

Under construction: the Larch theater
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post #196 of 535 Old 05-30-2013, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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So THAT's why mine is growing! mad.gif ( biggrin.gif )

no i think your is growing from reading all these other threads smile.gif I find it helps to take 24 hour breaks from reading other people's incredible works to regain your sanity smile.gif
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post #197 of 535 Old 05-30-2013, 11:31 PM
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no i think your is growing from reading all these other threads smile.gif I find it helps to take 24 hour breaks from reading other people's incredible works to regain your sanity smile.gif

Nah, there's no-one doing the things I'm doing here AFAIK. cool.gif Most people do very good looking theaters, that's not my goal, I'm not that good at detail/have that good manual skills.
I'm mostly looking for performance, currently soundproofing-performance.

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post #198 of 535 Old 05-31-2013, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Nah, there's no-one doing the things I'm doing here AFAIK. cool.gif Most people do very good looking theaters, that's not my goal, I'm not that good at detail/have that good manual skills.
I'm mostly looking for performance, currently soundproofing-performance.

yah that's where I'm backing down at least initially. I figure I'm not going to have the money to buy equipment that you could hear across the street anyways so I can do that step later.

However, it would be very difficult to clip the walls to the ceiling once that first layer of drywall is up so obviously that will be a phase 1 item along with clips and channels on the ceiling which is honestly the part I fear the most.

Bass Traps, Green Glue, second layer of drywall, the stage, the AV rack, all that stuff can come later as long as I don't miss a step now (or in six months if we ever get this deal put to bed)
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post #199 of 535 Old 05-31-2013, 09:29 AM
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Ok, there's a difference - I already have the gear and have verified I can rock the neighbour's house (too much). biggrin.gif

I'm very happy that there's no channels to work with for me, I'd worry too in such a case.

Under construction: the Larch theater
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post #200 of 535 Old 06-16-2013, 04:49 AM - Thread Starter
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for those who are still following this thread, we have been set back by one delay after another, not really sure what's going on but now we're at the point where building a house means we don't take delivery until January and I don't want to move in January and I'm sure they don't want to build in December.

so we are giving strong consideration to pushing the whole project to next year which is also problematic because of rising interest rates and rising prices.

Anyways, c'est la vie - I'll be reading for a bit longer instead of posting as much. I'm at the point with my project now where I really need to start paying out money to either buy books or videos or design advice to get deeper.



the GOOD news is that we have found a different builder who will do deep pour basements which makes a lot of my problems with the theater go away.
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post #201 of 535 Old 06-16-2013, 07:07 AM
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Can't you agree on the prices and do the deal now, just push the build start until spring next year?

Good about basement. smile.gif

Under construction: the Larch theater
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post #202 of 535 Old 06-16-2013, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Can't you agree on the prices and do the deal now, just push the build start until spring next year?

Good about basement. smile.gif

It's a good thought. Unfortunately the builders costs are changing and he's not willing to carry the risk for six months. Also the land cost may change. Again now that buyers and sellers power is starting to equalize there's less incentive for them to bend over backwards just to get our business.
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post #203 of 535 Old 06-20-2013, 02:57 AM - Thread Starter
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in the neverending saga of deciding on our new house, builder #2 (deep basement builder) has suddenly gone silent and we're not sure where we would build the house as our original lot agreement disintegrated over a school district snafu. Builder #2 is also at the very top of our affordability index and we have to make cuts to get there.

Builder #1 (which is the basement blueprint pictured early in this thread) has finally come back with pricing and it's not quite as high as I was expecting so now we're back to talking to them. Downside with them is no deep pour basement, upside being we get a three car garage and about a 10% cheaper price tag.

All of this pendulum swinging is making me absolutely nauseous but I feel like we are closing in on the end of this thing, at least from a decision standpoint. Move in looks more and more like early to mid 2014.
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post #204 of 535 Old 07-02-2013, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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We went and saw the house last Friday (or a house that will be very similar - there's a good 3 feet wide of HVAC ducts that hangs 10" down from the ceiling that sort of ruins any possibility that the room will be symmetrical left and right and may even interfere with the projector's line of sight to the screen. And my original plan of going along the short wall won't work because that's where they put the electrical box.

Plbbt. I think my riser is becoming really impractical - I might just shorten up the whole theater by 6 feet or so and just do one row of seats and a snack bar.

Also since the electrical is on the opposite side that I thought it was, I will likely flip my theater so that you enter from the back instead of the front. Actually if I flip and shorten it, there will be no front entrance because the stairs will block off one side and concrete wall is on the other side.

I took photos and video - will share them later.
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post #205 of 535 Old 07-02-2013, 10:59 AM
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Can't you have the ducts moved?

( and I'd rather skipped the bar than a row of seats...)

Under construction: the Larch theater
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post #206 of 535 Old 07-02-2013, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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unfortunately the way this ended up going was that we ended up with the builder who is not real great about accommodating change requests. They only build spec homes and they don't allow for any changes.

This is a good thing for the rest of the house because I get what I want for less money but in the case of the basement theater it's definitely going to work against me. It won't stop me from trying though - that's for sure! smile.gif

oh well, we don't always get everything we want smile.gif

I hear what you're saying on the second row - I'll have to see but based on the measurements I've already done, I'm pretty pessimistic.

On the bright side, after 4 months of hemming and hawing over this house, I think we're finally going to do it...the hemming and hawing was actually the builder and not us...
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post #207 of 535 Old 07-03-2013, 12:52 PM
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How about being around when the workers do that part with beer and sandwiches and sweettalk them into rerouting it?

Or have them not finish that part so you can do it yourself once they're gone? Not finishing one room doesn't sound like a change they'd turn down...

Under construction: the Larch theater
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post #208 of 535 Old 07-03-2013, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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funny. then the supervisor makes them stay late to put it back smile.gif
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post #209 of 535 Old 07-03-2013, 12:59 PM
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funny. then the supervisor makes them stay late to put it back smile.gif

Supervisor? We don't have those over here. The workers cheat as much as they can and if the customer doesn't point out a problem at the inspection before takeover, then they get away with it. And if you find a problem and it's too much work for them to fix, they can just knock the price down a bit and you have to live with that.

My shower downstairs was put two feet to far from the wall, so there's no cabinet that would fit around it, so I've never used it for more than filling buckets... They got away with that for a couple of grand, I had no legal rights to force them to fix it if they offered decent money and the 'neutral' inspector deemed that ok.

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post #210 of 535 Old 07-13-2013, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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And it's done. We signed the contract. We take delivery December of this year.
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