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post #91 of 105 Old 11-15-2014, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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So some of the walls are up and I finally got at tackling an outside corner in the room that was a challenge to decouple. I had to recess channels between studs on the south bar wall due to a door on the east pretty much butting right up to this wall's framing; there's about an inch between the wall studs and the back of the door hinges. On the other end of this wall is the in wall recessed AV rack I built and immediately next to it is a load bearing post, so in the top right corner of this wall I had no channel to attach drywall to and nowhere to recess a channel. So I had to get creative.

Luckily, I had 4 IB-3 brackets left over so I decided to mount these to the side of the post but backwards so that the rubber part of the L shaped bracket wrapped around the post and gave me 4 mounting points for some scrap 3/8 OSB I had left over from the screen backer box build. Because the post is flush with this wall framing, I had to use 3/8 OSB as the 1st layer as I couldn't fit the bracket then 5/8 OSB in front for first layer. Too shallow to fit the depth including the rubber mount. But, I was able to add some scrap drywall and GG to the back of the 3/8 OSB and around the rubber mount. On the left backside of the OSB panel, I added some nailers so that I could bridge it to the drywall butting up to the OSB to complete a flat first layer here. Problem solved.
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Last edited by Swervepf; 11-16-2014 at 10:36 AM.
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post #92 of 105 Old 12-24-2014, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swervepf View Post
So some of the walls are up and I finally got at tackling an outside corner in the room that was a challenge to decouple. I had to recess channels between studs on the south bar wall due to a door on the east pretty much butting right up to this wall's framing; there's about an inch between the wall studs and the back of the door hinges. On the other end of this wall is the in wall recessed AV rack I built and immediately next to it is a load bearing post, so in the top right corner of this wall I had no channel to attach drywall to and nowhere to recess a channel. So I had to get creative.

Luckily, I had 4 IB-3 brackets left over so I decided to mount these to the side of the post but backwards so that the rubber part of the L shaped bracket wrapped around the post and gave me 4 mounting points for some scrap 3/8 OSB I had left over from the screen backer box build. Because the post is flush with this wall framing, I had to use 3/8 OSB as the 1st layer as I couldn't fit the bracket then 5/8 OSB in front for first layer. Too shallow to fit the depth including the rubber mount. But, I was able to add some scrap drywall and GG to the back of the 3/8 OSB and around the rubber mount. On the left backside of the OSB panel, I added some nailers so that I could bridge it to the drywall butting up to the OSB to complete a flat first layer here. Problem solved.



Thanks for pointing me to your new build thread


Looks like it is coming along!
There are so many similarities to what I am planning here haha...main difference is your screen is recessed and my motorized will just be attached to the ceiling. My room is a simple rectangle shape...have some French doors/windows that will have to work around the channels with, but enough info out there that I can figure it out. I will have some else do the drywall work, but think I will need to but up the backer boxes, clips and channels (just so its done right). I plan on "guiding" the folks on drywall days again just to make all is good. Hard to find folks that have done a hat channel drywall before....have to explain it vs. going with their suggestion of resilient channel


I am planning on doing backer boxes (with the exact HICAT Halo lights with LED conversion kits from the big orange box store). I will have read though that the reno model cans are easier to get into the boxes though. Would you switch? I know BIG likes them. I will be putting the backer boxes up with some sort of clip to the stud and making sure the box is butted against the first layer of DW.


Since you have worked with these exact lights what are the dimensions of backer box you would suggest for this new build cans? I will be doing the "traditional" method as I have non up there now. So it will be boxes up, then wiring to them, connect HALO, then good bead of acoustic seal before DW.
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post #93 of 105 Old 12-24-2014, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by manfrog View Post
Thanks for pointing me to your new build thread


Looks like it is coming along!
There are so many similarities to what I am planning here haha...main difference is your screen is recessed and my motorized will just be attached to the ceiling. My room is a simple rectangle shape...have some French doors/windows that will have to work around the channels with, but enough info out there that I can figure it out. I will have some else do the drywall work, but think I will need to but up the backer boxes, clips and channels (just so its done right). I plan on "guiding" the folks on drywall days again just to make all is good. Hard to find folks that have done a hat channel drywall before....have to explain it vs. going with their suggestion of resilient channel


I am planning on doing backer boxes (with the exact HICAT Halo lights with LED conversion kits from the big orange box store). I will have read though that the reno model cans are easier to get into the boxes though. Would you switch? I know BIG likes them. I will be putting the backer boxes up with some sort of clip to the stud and making sure the box is butted against the first layer of DW.


Since you have worked with these exact lights what are the dimensions of backer box you would suggest for this new build cans? I will be doing the "traditional" method as I have non up there now. So it will be boxes up, then wiring to them, connect HALO, then good bead of acoustic seal before DW.
The French doors and windows will be your weakspots as they're big holes in the drywall shell. In my case, the room isn't dedicated so these are limitations I will have to live with. I have 3 windows, 1 exterior and 1 interior door, all flanking points. If your french doors don't have to stay, and you really want to soundproof, then reduce that flanking point- get a smaller single door, even better, double airlock doors. One swings out, then second swings in.

Yes, I would switch to the old work cans and follow BIG's instructions. My problem was I bought, hung and wired all the HALO boxes before learning through this forum of the need for backer boxes. And with backer boxes, the ICAT boxes are harder to work with then old work/reno cans. I had no choice at that point so retrofitted the ICATs into backer boxes. Check out BIG's builds for his backer boxes- they're the model to follow. Also, mounting the backer box to the joist, even with 2 IB-3 Bracket is arguably coupling them to the joists. Instead, do as BIG does, and I did, strap the sides of the backer boxes and let those straps temporarily rest on the channels. Then when you lift the ceiling drywall layer, it'll lift the backer boxes up off the channels so they are resting directly on the backside of the ceiling drywall, completely decoupled from the joists, except for the clips holding the channel. Less coupling points.

Just a tip on channel, HD has them incorrectly priced online, and the price is lower than their register, as well as the drywall supplier I got my drywall from. Just ask their staff to match the online price, sometimes a guy will handwrite you a slip in the aisle, but it'll save you a few bucks. http://www.homedepot.ca/product/dryw...nnelx12/968162

Have a build thread? If not, start one up so I can check out your build!
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post #94 of 105 Old 12-24-2014, 02:31 PM
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The French doors and windows will be your weakspots as they're big holes in the drywall shell. In my case, the room isn't dedicated so these are limitations I will have to live with. I have 3 windows, 1 exterior and 1 interior door, all flanking points. If your french doors don't have to stay, and you really want to soundproof, then reduce that flanking point- get a smaller single door, even better, double airlock doors. One swings out, then second swings in.

Yes, I would switch to the old work cans and follow BIG's instructions. My problem was I bought, hung and wired all the HALO boxes before learning through this forum of the need for backer boxes. And with backer boxes, the ICAT boxes are harder to work with then old work/reno cans. I had no choice at that point so retrofitted the ICATs into backer boxes. Check out BIG's builds for his backer boxes- they're the model to follow. Also, mounting the backer box to the joist, even with 2 IB-3 Bracket is arguably coupling them to the joists. Instead, do as BIG does, and I did, strap the sides of the backer boxes and let those straps temporarily rest on the channels. Then when you lift the ceiling drywall layer, it'll lift the backer boxes up off the channels so they are resting directly on the backside of the ceiling drywall, completely decoupled from the joists, except for the clips holding the channel. Less coupling points.

Just a tip on channel, HD has them incorrectly priced online, and the price is lower than their register, as well as the drywall supplier I got my drywall from. Just ask their staff to match the online price, sometimes a guy will handwrite you a slip in the aisle, but it'll save you a few bucks. http://www.homedepot.ca/product/dryw...nnelx12/968162

Have a build thread? If not, start one up so I can check out your build!

Ok will look at Big's backer box thoughts and look to use the Ron cans vs. new build. If I recall I just didn't understand the "reach in and connect the Romex" line....how does the can stay put? And I thought I should get IC rated and haven't seen much at HD in the Ron format that is IC rated.

Yes HD is the place I will get the hat...will make sure of price thanks!

Any reason (other than $ you went IB1clip vs whisper/GG clip)?

You do all your own work?

Thread will come once I have some access to the inside of my walls and know what I really dealing with. Still have to clean the space and ready it for demo lol


I should add the doors and windows...yes weak point but that is side of the house is my backyard so not sso concerned about noise going out that way (big yard ). I have crawlspace beneath and joists that run North/South but the adjoining rooms are on the East side of this room - so flanking is a little less concerning (based on what I have read and been told)

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post #95 of 105 Old 01-20-2015, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok will look at Big's backer box thoughts and look to use the Ron cans vs. new build. If I recall I just didn't understand the "reach in and connect the Romex" line....how does the can stay put?

And I thought I should get IC rated and haven't seen much at HD in the Ron format that is IC rated.

Any reason (other than $ you went IB1clip vs whisper/GG clip)?

You do all your own work?

I should add the doors and windows...yes weak point but that is side of the house is my backyard so not sso concerned about noise going out that way (big yard ). I have crawlspace beneath and joists that run North/South but the adjoining rooms are on the East side of this room - so flanking is a little less concerning (based on what I have read and been told)
Been busy for a while, sorry for not replying sooner.

BIG leaves a few feet of romex coiled up high in the box, then drills the holes for the light after the ceiling is up, reaches in and pulls down the romex, connects it to the light, then pops the light up into the hole. He just screws through the pot light housing sideways into the 1 1/4" thick drywall. The light weighs little and the drywall is strong enough to hold the screws.

With a backer box, the insulation butts up to the backer box, not the pot light, so you don't need an Insulation Contact pot lights as no insulation is touching that actual pot light.

I went with IB-1s due to price and value for dollar. The IB-1s are considered the Honda of Clips, and I've given up owning Ferrari's long ago. I couldn't justify spending 3X or more for something that was only a "little" better.

I've done all my own work with a few small exceptions.
-I had a plumber run my water and drainage to the bar area as part of a reno.
-I had an electrician verify all my electrical work. He identified the circuits on the panel, but I pulled all the romex and connected the breakers to all the boxes, and installed receptacles and switches including 3-ways.
-I will have a Taper/Mudder handle the taping and mudding. I've since learned how, however I perceive he does good work for cheap which I can't say for any other trade around here.

The concern with windows and doors is not sound going through them to your yard, but weak points in your walls where sound enters then and makes a 90 degree turn, going up/down/around to adjoining floors/walls, etc. Flanking paths. Those windows are attached to the framing. You shake the window, and the window shakes the framing, which is holding up your upper floor. Have someone knock on the window... hear it upstairs? Your sub will similarly do this also. This is why the dedicated room with no windows, and 1 doorway with 2 beefy communicating (1 swings out, next swings in) doors is basically a necessity for many here as a starting point... minimal flanking opportunity.

I will have to live with these compromises, however they will be the only weak points. I could (but likely never will) build window plugs, and upgrade my doorway to double communicating doors. I'm not that enthusiastic about it all just yet, and I don't even have to ask the boss if she'd let me cover the windows with plugs.


Regarding my progress, first drywall layer is done, and I just hauled home drywall for the second layer yesterday. I can assure everyone that 12' long 54" wide drywall is a PITA to carry and bend in through doorways to get in the house. I bought 3 sheets of this dimension to solve some awkward seams in a few spots. Let's hope it doesn't break on the lift this weekend!
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post #96 of 105 Old 01-22-2015, 07:40 AM
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Been busy for a while, sorry for not replying sooner.

BIG leaves a few feet of romex coiled up high in the box, then drills the holes for the light after the ceiling is up, reaches in and pulls down the romex, connects it to the light, then pops the light up into the hole. He just screws through the pot light housing sideways into the 1 1/4" thick drywall. The light weighs little and the drywall is strong enough to hold the screws.

With a backer box, the insulation butts up to the backer box, not the pot light, so you don't need an Insulation Contact pot lights as no insulation is touching that actual pot light.

I went with IB-1s due to price and value for dollar. The IB-1s are considered the Honda of Clips, and I've given up owning Ferrari's long ago. I couldn't justify spending 3X or more for something that was only a "little" better.

I've done all my own work with a few small exceptions.
-I had a plumber run my water and drainage to the bar area as part of a reno.
-I had an electrician verify all my electrical work. He identified the circuits on the panel, but I pulled all the romex and connected the breakers to all the boxes, and installed receptacles and switches including 3-ways.
-I will have a Taper/Mudder handle the taping and mudding. I've since learned how, however I perceive he does good work for cheap which I can't say for any other trade around here.

The concern with windows and doors is not sound going through them to your yard, but weak points in your walls where sound enters then and makes a 90 degree turn, going up/down/around to adjoining floors/walls, etc. Flanking paths. Those windows are attached to the framing. You shake the window, and the window shakes the framing, which is holding up your upper floor. Have someone knock on the window... hear it upstairs? Your sub will similarly do this also. This is why the dedicated room with no windows, and 1 doorway with 2 beefy communicating (1 swings out, next swings in) doors is basically a necessity for many here as a starting point... minimal flanking opportunity.

I will have to live with these compromises, however they will be the only weak points. I could (but likely never will) build window plugs, and upgrade my doorway to double communicating doors. I'm not that enthusiastic about it all just yet, and I don't even have to ask the boss if she'd let me cover the windows with plugs.


Regarding my progress, first drywall layer is done, and I just hauled home drywall for the second layer yesterday. I can assure everyone that 12' long 54" wide drywall is a PITA to carry and bend in through doorways to get in the house. I bought 3 sheets of this dimension to solve some awkward seams in a few spots. Let's hope it doesn't break on the lift this weekend!

Thanks for the update and the tips...tons of research and getting more informed from the good folks here. Good to hear you are making progress


Of the 4 original door/window gaps I have decided to just keep one set of doors and actually reframe and get rid of the others.


If your drywall guy is taking work in Van city area please PM me contact details (again if he doesn't mind) as the quote by the drywall guy suggested by my GC seems like a lot...let alone the GC's % above that.
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post #97 of 105 Old 02-09-2015, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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So second haul of drywall as well as Green Glue done, and second layer of 5/8 Sheetrock Type X heavy drywall installed.

I found that when installing the second layer of the ceiling, I was able to hit the IB-1 bracket flanges with a 2 inch screw within the factory tapered edges of the drywall. I noticed this as I wasn't able to countersink the screw head into the drywall as the screw had basically bottomed out. I tested this out on a wall and proved this, so a tip for everyone out there, avoid the factory edges when putting up the second layer, if you're using IB-1s. Attached are some photos showing how close you can get to the flange at the factory edge.

Now I'm finishing off caulking the ceiling to wall corner joints, wall corner joints, as well as wall to floor joints with Grabber Acoustical sealant. I did get more Green Glue brand acoustical sealant, but in comparison, I find it shrinks a lot, and believe it might just be due to a higher water content in it. When it shrinks, I find it even starts to create gaps. Granted my gaps aren't tight at all, but I don't have this happening with the Grabber. Attached is a pic of those gaps formed in the Green Glue Acoustical Sealant. I went back over them with Grabber to completely fill them.

Next, I'm onto window sills and returns as well as some door returns. I left a voicemail for my taper/mudder about a week ago but he hasn't called me back yet... hopefully he's not too busy for me, otherwise I might be taping and mudding myself. Manfrog- I'll let you know what he says.

Also, I attached a pic of my 2 tubes/sheet GG spaghetti mess application, as well as one of my in wall rack that I think is starting to look good with the drywall around it now complete.
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post #98 of 105 Old 02-17-2015, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm working on 3 window sills made with 5/8" MDF and returns made of 5/8" drywall that bridge double stud wall framing in the windows. I'm attaching the sill to the inner stud but not to the exterior framing. It'll essentially just rest on the outer framing in an attempt to not couple the inner and outer framing through the sill. I used some roof felt under the sill just so the MDF wouldn't squeak against any of the wood framing. Where I had voids between the inner and outer framing, I added scrap drywall and green glue to backside of the sills and returns. I would have made full panel GG sandwiches but then I'd overlap the window frames and that wouldn't look very good at all. A little mass and GG is better than none. At the gap from the sill to the window, I minimally caulked it just enough to close the gap with some Green Glue Acoustical sealant as it's very flexible.

I already know that windows are huge flanking paths, but aside from window plugs (WAF=no), this is the best way I can mitigate sound escaping through the sill and returns.
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post #99 of 105 Old 03-07-2015, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I have one window on a wall that I clipped and channeled instead of double wall framing and when installing the drywall returns, I realized that I’d have nothing to screw the window blinds support brackets into. Luckily, I had enough space to make the top return a 3/8 OSB GG 5/8 Drywall sandwich without overlapping the window frame. Now I’ve got some meat for the screws that will hold up the blind that will eventually be hung here.

Now I'm taping and mudding myself. My drywall guy never returned my calls unfortunately, but so far I am kind of enjoying it. I know I won't enjoy the sanding though.
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post #100 of 105 Old 03-15-2015, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Taping, corner beads and the overall first coat of mudding is done. Wow a lot of mud was needed. I've used a box of the taping compound, Synko Lite Line, the yellow striped one, and had to cut in some Classic Finish just to get first coat done. I'll see how much thinner the fill and finish coats are but I'll bet I'll need a 3rd box.

Something I noticed when filling the screws. Whenever I had a clicker (dragging the taping knife over the screws clicks on the unsunk screws) I noticed the screws seemed loose. My guess is the green glue shrinks ever so slightly as it dries relieving some load on the second layer's screw heads. Just a guess but 2nd layer had been done for over a month. A half turned snugged them up and countersunk them just fine. Only had 1 that had stripped the channel. It now lives an inch over.
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post #101 of 105 Old 03-15-2015, 08:03 PM
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Wow there's a ton of good info in this build, moving along nicely.
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post #102 of 105 Old 04-02-2015, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Fill and finish coats done. 2.5 boxes of mud to get it done. It was a bunch of work but I'm happy with it now after casting shadows with a 500w halogen work light and again with a hand held trouble light close up along all the mud joints. It took a few extra hours but hopefully I don't find too many more defects to fix after a coat of drywall sealer.
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post #103 of 105 Old 04-03-2015, 06:28 PM
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Excellent. Congrats! I think that's probably hardest part of the project. Should be smooth sailing from here on.

My First Build Ever in progress
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post #104 of 105 Old 05-10-2015, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! Sailing on. Drywall sealer and 2 coats of paint are now done. After some back and forth with the wife, we settled on Benjamin Moore Stonington grey on the ceiling and walls and Hale Navy on the back wall. I tried to go darker on the ceiling but it was a no go.

Here's a pic of the room now. Windows are also trimmed, screen is hung, and I'm onto finish floors next.
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Last edited by Swervepf; 05-12-2015 at 09:23 AM.
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post #105 of 105 Old 05-21-2015, 12:28 PM
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How's the floor coming? Any updates?
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