What would you do with 16x13 - besides make it 13x16? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 04-17-2013, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi All,
I'm new to this forum, but I've been a regular in the AVS audio forums for a while. I've been lurking here for a few days and already learned much from all of you.

I'm moving into a house that has a dedicated theater room - 16 wide by 13 long. The room has two lights on each side wall that will make it rather difficult to make the room 16 long by 13 wide. It is also pre-wired with speaker wire, although the #$^*! builder managed to put every wire in the wrong place.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on how to best use a 16x13 room. Screen size? Can I squeeze in 2 rows of seats? How far back from the screen would you put the seats? Would 3' of length make enough difference to make it worth moving 120v AC wire?

Thank you in advance, and I look forward to sharing ideas as I build out my new theater.

Glenn
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post #2 of 18 Old 04-17-2013, 05:15 PM
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How many people do you want to seat "comfortably"? What kind of seating do you expect?

Screen size is a function of seating distance - figure out the seating plan and that will give you the screen size (or at least a range).

You can certainly do a 2nd row as a bar with stools, but at 13' of depth I don't think you want to tackle a riser (unless you're planning on using theater seating, not recliners). The location of door or other obstructions will probably guide you here, too.

Builders always* put speakers in the wrong locations. I don't know where they get their info about speaker placement.

If you need to run wires anyway - and that includes the projector location, such that you'll be patching/repairing drywall, then a dozen holes isn't much different than one. Since you're building a dedicated theater room, I wouldn't let a little AC wire moving dictate the layout of the room. Why compromise from the start?

Post a room layout showing doors, windows, dimensions (what's the ceiling height? Any bulkheads?) and you'll get better advice.

Jeff

*maybe one of them got it right sometime, but I doubt it. biggrin.gif


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post #3 of 18 Old 04-17-2013, 08:54 PM
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+1, and or a few room pictures


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post #4 of 18 Old 04-17-2013, 10:31 PM
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I would kill for a wider room but if you need more rows then like the others have said, a few holes to rerun wires isnt a big deal especially if you have a crawl space. Running wires and pulling them to the correct places isnt hard at all.

BUT, unless you really need the extra seats by switching the layout to make it deeper, you will really enjoy the sound from a wider room. I built a three row room with two sets of side surrounds but havent even had the need for the third row one single time as of yet. I have an 18' wide room with 4 wide seating and kick myself in the rear for not making it atleast 22' wide all the time.

You can also get away with using a smaller screen and fewer lumens with closer seating, just something to think about.

Post up a layout, and welcome to the madness!
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post #5 of 18 Old 04-17-2013, 10:33 PM
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You can cetainly do something, but 16ft is a bit of a problem with a second row.

Have a look at Roger's room, its 11.5’ x 17’ x 8’ (which is about the same as what mine will be)

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1179128/deadwood-theater-comes-alive

Depending on the chairs, you might get 4 across at a pinch

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post #6 of 18 Old 04-18-2013, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll post a sketch as soon as I can, and I'll be back in the house this weekend so that I can get some pictures. Most of the movie watching will be my son and me using the theater as our man cave. We are a family of 5, though, so there will be times that we all watch a movie together.

I'm leaning toward theater recliners. My younger two are young enough for now that they can sit on someone's lap, so a row of three recliners might be enough. Maybe I can add barstools as they get older.
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post #7 of 18 Old 04-18-2013, 04:10 PM
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In my signature, you will find my 13 w x 16 l room...to give you an idea of what you are capable of doing in a room that size.

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post #8 of 18 Old 04-19-2013, 01:50 AM
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Here is what i did with my theater room which is only 12 x 16. Its not fully completed but I am happy with the results.






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post #9 of 18 Old 04-19-2013, 08:32 AM
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If you can’t change your depth, as in rotating the room configuration to 16’ long by 13’ wide I’d go with one row of 4-5 recliners; just use slim recliners. If you can rotate the room so you have 16’ to work with then 2 rows will work. Not ideal but they will work, my room is about 12’x15’ and I have two rows of berks and both can fully recline. You toes may be touching the head of the first row if everyone fully reclined but…it’s doable.

You may also want to check the small theater thread for ideas.


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post #10 of 18 Old 04-19-2013, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by design1stcode2nd View Post

If you can’t change your depth, as in rotating the room configuration to 16’ long by 13’ wide I’d go with one row of 4-5 recliners.

+1 I'd go with one row against the back wall.


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post #11 of 18 Old 04-22-2013, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I finally have pictures! My camera didn't like the green color so the color exposure is off. I tried to correct in DPP but didn't get it quite right. Color is a dark green. Maybe hunter green? Not quite as dark as olive drab.









The room has a 9' ceiling. There is an attic crawl space access panel on the right wall (one of the 13' walls). The double doors are on a 16' side. The current wiring puts the screen on the 16' side opposite the door, which is mostly an exterior wall. The left wall is an interior wall - the other side of it is the upper wall in a 2-story family room.

So the question is - how to best seat a family of five that size room? And what's the biggest screen I should be considering? I'm thinking 80" based on some preliminary calculations.

Glenn
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post #12 of 18 Old 04-23-2013, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Glenn_Law View Post


So the question is - how to best seat a family of five that size room? And what's the biggest screen I should be considering? I'm thinking 80" based on some preliminary calculations.

Glenn

A big couch or theater seats with pocket arms (the only people who make these I know of are Fortress and they are very very good but also expensive) or without arms.

Calculate screen size based on viewing angle. I'd probably go for a large flat panel rather than a projector and put all of the speakers on the same level just above the display.


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post #13 of 18 Old 04-23-2013, 10:09 AM
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For smoother frequency response, I would place the listeners' ears at 1/3rd of room length (4'4") from the back wall. To keep the surround speakers' reflections from muddying up the front soundstage I would cover as much of the front wall (at least ±40° from centre) with absorbtion. For the absorbtion to be broadband (absorb across the frequency range of the speakers), use 4" of rigid fiberglass placed 4" from the wall. You can mount the screen on top of this, putting it 8" from the front wall.

This puts the viewers eyes 8' from the screen. SMPTE says that more than a 35° vertical viewing angle results in physical discomfort for most viewers. We humans have a roughly 15° cone of optimal vision. Somewhere between those two numbers would make for a good screen height. For horizontal viewing angle, SMPTE recommends a minimum of 30° and THX recommends 36°, to minimize eye strain that comes from viewing too small an image in a dark room. A 16x9 screen that is around 92" diagonally will give you a 26° vertical viewing angle and a 45° horizontal viewing angle. Immersive without fatigue.

Finally, your 16' wide room is going to resonate at 35Hz, 71Hz and 106Hz. Placing a pair of subs 4' in from your side walls and placing your L/R speakers 2'8" from the side walls will knock those out. Using placement (subs, speakers, seating) to deal with the bigger frequency response problems means less reliance on treatments and equalization. The room correction system in your receiver will thank you for that.

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post #14 of 18 Old 04-23-2013, 11:00 AM
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As I mentioned my room is only 12' wide, as you can see 4 berklines fit, I could have fit 4 even without the loveseat config. With 16' of width and one row you can easily have a nice row of 5 seats, probably curved as well. I'd only do 3 feet off the back wall in my opinion which would give you about 10 foot viewing distance. But then a large screen is higher on my list than audio fidelity. I want it to sound good but that doesn’t trump the screen. Your preference may vary.

P1120508_zps1c0d2281.jpg


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post #15 of 18 Old 04-23-2013, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

For smoother frequency response, I would place the listeners' ears at 1/3rd of room length (4'4") from the back wall. To keep the surround speakers' reflections from muddying up the front soundstage I would cover as much of the front wall (at least ±40° from centre) with absorbtion. For the absorbtion to be broadband (absorb across the frequency range of the speakers), use 4" of rigid fiberglass placed 4" from the wall. You can mount the screen on top of this, putting it 8" from the front wall.

This puts the viewers eyes 8' from the screen. SMPTE says that more than a 35° vertical viewing angle results in physical discomfort for most viewers. We humans have a roughly 15° cone of optimal vision. Somewhere between those two numbers would make for a good screen height. For horizontal viewing angle, SMPTE recommends a minimum of 30° and THX recommends 36°, to minimize eye strain that comes from viewing too small an image in a dark room. A 16x9 screen that is around 92" diagonally will give you a 26° vertical viewing angle and a 45° horizontal viewing angle. Immersive without fatigue.

Finally, your 16' wide room is going to resonate at 35Hz, 71Hz and 106Hz. Placing a pair of subs 4' in from your side walls and placing your L/R speakers 2'8" from the side walls will knock those out. Using placement (subs, speakers, seating) to deal with the bigger frequency response problems means less reliance on treatments and equalization. The room correction system in your receiver will thank you for that.

This is great information! I had found an online screen size/viewing distance calculator, but I was incorrectly reading it to mean 36 degrees max rather than min.

I like the idea of using speaker placement to improve audio. I'm planning to start with a simple setup and then consider treatments and changes to the room itself.

Thanks,
Glenn
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post #16 of 18 Old 04-23-2013, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Design1st, your theater looks great! Thank you to you and Nyal for the thoughts on room layout and screen size. I think I will eventually rotate the room to make it 16 long by 13 wide, but I'll probably start out with it as-is.

I was thinking that this theater room was going to be a man-cave for my son and I to watch movies. My wife just told me that she figured we would ALL be watching movies together on a regular basis. I'm delighted that she likes the idea because it means I can spend more time and money making the theater just right biggrin.gif
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post #17 of 18 Old 04-23-2013, 01:37 PM
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I like the idea of using speaker placement to improve audio. I'm planning to start with a simple setup and then consider treatments and changes to the room itself.
If you're going to start out simple, then placement (subwoofers, speakers, seating) will be your best method for getting the smoothest sound (fewest peaks & dips) possible. However, I hope you reconsider not doing treatments initially, at least on the front wall (the rest of the room can wait).

Sanjay
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post #18 of 18 Old 04-23-2013, 02:10 PM
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Thanks, my wife thought I was crazy and that our TV was plenty fine for movie watching. As soon as the first movie was on even when I had a very basic setup she was hooked. I'd plan on your whole family being in there and watching movies together.

If you just want to test the waters a bit without a great deal of expense (other than components of course) then just reuse furniture you may have already and run cables under the baseboards. You can sit the projector on top of a component rack and project onto a painted wall to get a feel for it. That's what I started with, just a sofa and some old chairs, a craigslist BDI rack and a painted wall from the DIY screen section here on the forums. I used that for a year until my basement flooded and I remodeled.


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