Theater For Hobbits 2.0 - Mini 2.35 CIH Build in a 10x10 Alcove - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 139 Old 10-26-2013, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowkarver View Post

It's for damping and reducing reverberation when you place speakers and especially subwoofers on the stage. Without it, you'd have a lot of undesirable energy bouncing around under there, getting transferred to other parts of your room or home.

Unless you use weight-matched soft feet with an extremely low point of resonance, that is.

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post #62 of 139 Old 10-26-2013, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Unless you use weight-matched soft feet with an extremely low point of resonance, that is.

Yeah, that works too. But you miss out on all the fun of hauling tons of sand into your room!

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #63 of 139 Old 10-27-2013, 05:19 PM
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I don't believe that works for subwoofers.... I recall a Dennis Erskine HT design seminar where
he said it takes a magnitude of the sub's mass, to isolate a subwoofer. Then the sub is free
to transfer it's energy to the air, and not into a concrete floor (which is a nice sound conduit).
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post #64 of 139 Old 10-27-2013, 05:46 PM
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Very nice build.
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post #65 of 139 Old 10-28-2013, 06:50 AM
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I concur with the other comments. Very nice build! I think this is my all time favorite small-room-theater!

Is there a reason you chose to put absorbing material on all side walls? Doesn't it make the room too dead?

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post #66 of 139 Old 10-30-2013, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasHansen View Post

I concur with the other comments. Very nice build! I think this is my all time favorite small-room-theater!

Is there a reason you chose to put absorbing material on all side walls? Doesn't it make the room too dead?

Thanks!

If you look at the plans, you can see that I have an asymmetric space with a wall to the right side of the screen, but a large open space on the left. Early in the design phase I was advised by other AVSers to counter this with absorption that completely mirrors the opening, so that mids and highs wouldn't reflect from one side only and unbalance the soundstage.

Where I do have symmetrical walls near the surrounds, there are actually several fair-sized areas underneath the fabric that do not have any insulation. The ceiling and soffits are drywall, and the screen (non-AT vinyl backed) is proportionally very large, so there are still quite a few reflective surfaces.

In the end, the room is quite dry, but not so much that it's completely dead. I admit that it's not ideal for straight stereo, but with today's multichannel mixes, I find it great for movies, and it also works well with a 5.1 upmix like 2.0 PLII+THX Music.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #67 of 139 Old 12-02-2013, 07:13 PM
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Great looking theater Karver. I have a similar situation with regard to a somewhat "odd" shaped room. I have a  Flat ceiling at 9' The ceiling becomes a cathedral ceiling at about 6' out from center on both sides. One side then stops at a  height of 6' where it meets the wall. The opposing ceiling continues to drop to basically a knee wall at about 3' high. Do you have any suggestions or know where I might turn for suggestions on how to make both sides some how balance acoustically? 

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post #68 of 139 Old 12-03-2013, 04:09 PM
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Very nice finish Snowkarver.
Ready for the 3D viewing yet?
Curious, how's the CineVista len works with your theatre, any write-up of your experience ?
As I'm contemplating to replace my DIY A-len.
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post #69 of 139 Old 12-04-2013, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheaterPhantom View Post

Do you have any suggestions or know where I might turn for suggestions on how to make both sides some how balance acoustically? 

If you haven't already, you should start a build thread with photos and plans, or at least post up a couple of shots in the acoustic treatment sticky. I'm sure someone way more qualified than I might care to offer a few suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kis3dhc View Post

Very nice finish Snowkarver.
Ready for the 3D viewing yet?
Curious, how's the CineVista len works with your theatre, any write-up of your experience ?
As I'm contemplating to replace my DIY A-len.

I never entirely bought into the whole 3D thing, so I purchased an Epson 8350 that only projects good old-fashioned 2D. With that said, everything else in the chain is capable, so my next projector will probably come with 3D whether I want it to or not. biggrin.gif

The CineVista is working out very nicely, so I'm glad I bought in before the big price bump. It did take a few weeks of tweaking, but I finally have the throw balanced so that pincushion is barely noticeable whether viewing 1.78, 1.85, or 2.35. Really the only thing missing compared to the big boys is the uncorrected chromatic fringing in vertical lines as you move towards the sides. To put it mildly, it is bad when viewing test patterns.

With that said, I don't watch test patterns. It's simply not noticeable on anything else, especially movies. And with today's clean, uncluttered interfaces like on the Apple TV, PS4, or most modern games, there just isn't a lot of source material that features static white lines.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #70 of 139 Old 12-04-2013, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, yeah, I got a brand new PS4 hooked up and it looks awesome, although I wish games could toggle out to 2.35. biggrin.gif

The PS4 is also my BD player, and I used it to watch some Pixar films with the kids. All my viewing so far has been streaming via the Apple TV, so this was the first disc-based content I've seen in this room. And the first time I've ever had lossless audio (the movies had DTS-MA, but my previous AVR did not).

What a pleasant surprise - the extra bitrate in the picture is noticeable sitting so close to everything, and the sound really shines. I'm a happy camper.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #71 of 139 Old 12-04-2013, 06:33 PM
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Looks awesome snowkarver smile.gif

So what are your thoughts is 2.0 better then 1.0 ?

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post #72 of 139 Old 12-04-2013, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
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No question there w00lly, 2.0 is technically better in every conceivable way. Which makes sense as I basically fixed everything that bothered me from the first one.

Better design, newer construction, more acoustic treatment, ultra wide, a commercial screen, upgraded speakers and equipment, next generation technology, yet simpler connections and operation. They're really not even in the same league.

With that said you never forget your first, and boy did that one have character. This one is definitely a bit more sterile...

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #73 of 139 Old 12-05-2013, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowkarver View Post

... and whether small or big room, modest or reference ... I think this is why we all do it tongue.gif


Classic picture is worth a thousand words here!
Very nice HT, you set the benchmark for optimized usage of space.

I count 7 Hobbits there, how often afterward do they then sleep in the room?

For my family/friends gatherings, after the big movie watching the kids/cousins/friends like all putting their sleeping bags on the floor and sleeping there. Priceless stuff.
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post #74 of 139 Old 12-06-2013, 04:11 AM
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Makes me want a small theater room!
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post #75 of 139 Old 12-06-2013, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowkarver View Post

Oh, yeah, I got a brand new PS4 hooked up and it looks awesome, although I wish games could toggle out to 2.35. biggrin.gif

The PS4 is also my BD player, and I used it to watch some Pixar films with the kids. All my viewing so far has been streaming via the Apple TV, so this was the first disc-based content I've seen in this room. And the first time I've ever had lossless audio (the movies had DTS-MA, but my previous AVR did not).

What a pleasant surprise - the extra bitrate in the picture is noticeable sitting so close to everything, and the sound really shines. I'm a happy camper.
My Wife and I are so much into movies we will only watch them on disk at first DVD and now Blue Ray. I am ashamed to admit every Tuesday we are usually buying the latest release. Streaming with the compressed video and sound just does not appeal to us. There were some reviews on AVS and other sites comparing Blue Ray vise streaming vise ITunes or Media Player down loads. They were interesting and say the later formats have come a long way but still do not come close to Blue Ray with loss-less audio. If you really LOVE a Movie than while Best Buy Wal-Mart and others are have the $7.99-$9.99-$14.99 specials for Xmas pick some up. Oh and we Love 3D as well again ashamed to admit if released in 3D that is what we buy.
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post #76 of 139 Old 12-07-2013, 01:22 AM
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How do you like the LCR speakers placed above the screen? What's the height and angle?Don't you think the LCR are just too high? Have you tried placing the LCR below the screen?
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post #77 of 139 Old 12-08-2013, 05:09 PM
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The CineVista is working out very nicely, so I'm glad I bought in before the big price bump. It did take a few weeks of tweaking, but I finally have the throw balanced so that pincushion is barely noticeable whether viewing 1.78, 1.85, or 2.35. Really the only thing missing compared to the big boys is the uncorrected chromatic fringing in vertical lines as you move towards the sides. To put it mildly, it is bad when viewing test patterns.

With that said, I don't watch test patterns. It's simply not noticeable on anything else, especially movies. And with today's clean, uncluttered interfaces like on the Apple TV, PS4, or most modern games, there just isn't a lot of source material that features static white lines.[/quote]
Thank, for taking your time to address my interest.
I had two more questions : The Len you post in the picture seems show a high degree of reflection from Len to the PJ. Won't it be distractive as you watch movie with dark scene ?
Also, I'm curious to know will you be able to spot any slight reflection on the screen with some scene like bright image at the right side but dark at the left, e.g. the movie ending credits in black and white text.
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post #78 of 139 Old 12-11-2013, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

How do you like the LCR speakers placed above the screen? What's the height and angle?Don't you think the LCR are just too high? Have you tried placing the LCR below the screen?

It's a 22-27 degree angle, depending on your seated height. The speaker centerline is 80" off the ground, with a 26 degree fixed tilt down from the ceiling. You can see this construction on post #50.

You can also see in the photos that there isn't enough room underneath the screen - the sub interferes with the C placement and the equipment rack is where the R would go. In my last build, the LCRs were under the screen, but with less room depth this time, I couldn't make it work. Paradigm mini-mons have quite a broad dispersion pattern, so I don't really notice the height especially with movies. I definitely shared your concern when I found out I had to go above the screen, but it turned out just fine.

If you think about it, the LCRs are pretty close to where heads tend to be on screen - I find that dialog tracks very well with this layout.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #79 of 139 Old 12-11-2013, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kis3dhc View Post

I had two more questions : The Len you post in the picture seems show a high degree of reflection from Len to the PJ. Won't it be distractive as you watch movie with dark scene ?
Also, I'm curious to know will you be able to spot any slight reflection on the screen with some scene like bright image at the right side but dark at the left, e.g. the movie ending credits in black and white text.

I'm not sure what happened with that photo, but there really isn't that much backscatter from the lens. The setup is also pretty far above and slightly behind my head, so I haven't noticed it at all. There are no stray reflections from the lens or PJ on the screen, with any program material.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #80 of 139 Old 12-11-2013, 10:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cw5billwade View Post

My Wife and I are so much into movies we will only watch them on disk at first DVD and now Blue Ray. I am ashamed to admit every Tuesday we are usually buying the latest release. Streaming with the compressed video and sound just does not appeal to us. There were some reviews on AVS and other sites comparing Blue Ray vise streaming vise ITunes or Media Player down loads. They were interesting and say the later formats have come a long way but still do not come close to Blue Ray with loss-less audio. If you really LOVE a Movie than while Best Buy Wal-Mart and others are have the $7.99-$9.99-$14.99 specials for Xmas pick some up. Oh and we Love 3D as well again ashamed to admit if released in 3D that is what we buy.

Well the bitrate definitely makes a big difference. Unfortunately I'm too cheap and/or lazy to buy discs so it's usually Netflix or (if it's something we really want to watch) an itunes rental for us. Actually our local library is actually pretty good for kids' BDs and big, "highly acclaimed" movies like Oscar winners, so that's how we usually get our hands on physical media these days. Kinda makes you miss Blockbuster. Kinda.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #81 of 139 Old 12-11-2013, 11:21 PM - Thread Starter
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A couple of different angles:






And a closeup of my now-complete equipment rack:



That's probably about as minimal as you can get for a dedicated theater - a Belkin PureAV power center, PS4, Apple TV, and an Onkyo 818 receiver. Hidden at the back is a Darbee Darblet and a Harmony 900 RF receiver.

Yup, it's pretty tight in there. For heat control, I went active with large intake grilles along the sides, and a single 120mm exhaust fan at the rear that vents into the under-stair storage room. I learned a hard lesson from Hobbit 1.0, where I almost killed my equipment because passive venting is simply insufficient when you cram too much stuff into such a small space.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #82 of 139 Old 12-12-2013, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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W00lly, that's a cool app. Does it let you control all the discrete Onkyo codes?

I used the Harmony Pronto code hack along with the spreadsheet of Onkyo IR codes to program one button presses for anamorphic 2.35 zoom, switching between my favorite THX sound modes etc. This functionality is critical to me (these commands are usually buried in the menus which is ridiculous) and my solution was the only one I found.

That said I also like the ergos of the harmony and hard buttons. It's working really well for me.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #83 of 139 Old 12-12-2013, 12:00 PM
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snowkarver, I like your equipment rack. Makes me wish I was building mine under the screen rather than in a separate closet in the hall.

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post #84 of 139 Old 12-13-2013, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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In today's shocking news...

Hobbit 2.0 is AVS Forum's HT of the Month for December 2013!
Vlad Theimpaler likes this.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #85 of 139 Old 12-13-2013, 06:56 PM
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Congrats! Your theater is good inspiration for my 10x12 room!

- Jeff

WTB: PSA XS15 or XS15se, PM me.

Small HT: JVC RS4910, Mits HC7900DW, Falcon 2.35:1 100-wide, Marantz SR7008, Triad Gold Omni SE & Silver Surrounds, PSA XS15-base, Oppo 103D, Tivo Mini, HTPC
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post #86 of 139 Old 12-14-2013, 04:35 AM
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post #87 of 139 Old 12-15-2013, 02:28 PM
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Congrats!

The MacBeth Theater (flood resilient build)
 

Play like a Raven

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post #88 of 139 Old 12-15-2013, 04:10 PM
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Love it
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post #89 of 139 Old 12-16-2013, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowkarver View Post

In today's shocking news...

Hobbit 2.0 is AVS Forum's HT of the Month for December 2013!


Congratulations Snowkarver!!  Your room is an inspiration to smaller underdog rooms most people have.  I've seen a few extravagant HT setups but trying to raise 3 kids will not allow me to build one in that magnitude.  However a small room like yours and a $10k-$15k budget is more a realistic dream come true for a newbie like myself!  Thanks for sharing your journey into building Hobbit 2.0!!!


7.0 HT Setup:
***Polk RTIA9 / CSIA6 / FXIA6 / RTIA3**Dual PB-2000**Pioneer SC-1222K**Panasonic 65"VT60**Sony BDP-BX510***

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post #90 of 139 Old 12-16-2013, 05:25 PM
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Just read about your HT from its featured position (HT of the Month) on AVS. Your room is impressive on every level. Even the name is perfect, as it too demonstrates the deep love of movies that most of us on AVS share. Kudos to you, and hearty congrats as well for your well-deserved recognition here on AVS.

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