Theater For Hobbits 2.0 - Mini 2.35 CIH Build in a 10x10 Alcove - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 146 Old 12-16-2013, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all.

In case you were wondering where the name originated from, my first HT (Hobbit 1.0) was built in a cellar with a finished ceiling height of about 6'2". Elven-sized folks literally had to stoop when standing, just like in the Shire!

This one is about the same size but with a normal, human-height ceiling smile.gif

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #92 of 146 Old 12-17-2013, 06:44 AM
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Congrats on HTotM! I was a fan of version 1.0 as well.

I just love the picture of all the kids with their "hobbit" feet up on the coffee table.

Very cool that you did everything yourself and kept a reasonable budget. The results are just fantastic from the pictures.
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post #93 of 146 Old 12-17-2013, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking up. House lights on:



There's also a sports/spouse/kids mode. Here the 5" cans are off, and the rope and soffits dim slightly. When set this way, the room is still bright enough to read or play in. But since these luminaires are directional and focused away from the front, there is little stray light that reflects off the screen - so the picture remains bright and vibrant.



There is a third, very dim ambient scene (minimal rope light and just enough soffit to make out the fabric panels), and of course, full off for serious viewing. When these darker scenes are selected, all the lights in the adjoining spaces dim to off, and the basement stairway gets dim exit lighting that doesn't blast your eyeballs as you exit.

The theater is tied into a Smarthome Insteon control system that spans the whole house. Right now everything in here is controlled by keypads on the back wall of the theater, and at the top and bottom of the basement stairs. Once I figure out how the scenes are actually being used, I may tie some scenes into the Harmony so they are automatically activated with various activities or sources.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #94 of 146 Old 12-17-2013, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Video calibration complete on the 8530. I use a Spyder 3 and the free HCFR software.

Despite a reputation for flaky bulbs and the dreaded "green blob" dust issue, there simply isn't another projector at this price point (about $800 factory refurbished, with full Epson warranty) that has this much performance and the required placement flexibility.


Color temperature:



Luminance tracking:



Color balance:



Color gamut, grayscale, and white point:


Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #95 of 146 Old 12-18-2013, 09:35 PM
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Nicely done! A beautiful home theater.
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post #96 of 146 Old 12-19-2013, 05:37 AM
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That space is great. Did you post your REW graphs anywhere? I have been toying with the idea jumping in the REW fray looking at my multiuse (nowhere near as nice) small space. However, I am somewhat worried I would try and fix what I don't hear.

I love your comments about not watching test patterns. The problems I can see in the test patterns on right portion of my screen do not distract during "real" content. I spent hours trying to figure out what was going on and eliminate it.

Again - the space looks wonderful!
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post #97 of 146 Old 12-19-2013, 08:31 AM
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My thoughts exactly about the screen height. Seeing the photo posted 6/14/13 at 6:04pm, it appears the bottom edge of the screen is level with the top of the couch and the photo showing the children watching a film shows all of them looking upwards. Since the advent of the multiplex theaters and the stadium seating, I have enjoyed watch movies in theaters with the center of the screen at eye level. It is more comfortable and has less strain on the eyes.
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post #98 of 146 Old 12-19-2013, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldironsides View Post

Seeing the photo posted 6/14/13 at 6:04pm, it appears the bottom edge of the screen is level with the top of the couch and the photo showing the children watching a film shows all of them looking upwards.

The top of the couch isn't level with the bottom of the screen, it's actually a bit less than 1/3 of the way up. This is the eye height for a typical adult. I find it quite conventional and similar to where I sit in a multiplex, about a quarter of the way back.

This observation is actually a great example of the compromises that you make in a small build. Even if I had wanted to lower the screen just a 1/2 inch, I wouldn't have been able - it would have caused an avalanche of issues due to the tight tolerances.

Because the screen has a closet behind it, it fronts the only available space in the room deep enough to house a subwoofer and equipment rack. So the screen needs to clear a sub - and the SVS SB-12 was the most compact high performance one I could find in my price range. Dropping the screen just a 1/2" would mean going from a 12" to a 10" driver, which is a huge loss.

Similarly, the Onkyo 818 and PS4 represent the lowest-cost, highest-performance, and shortest stack I could devise - together with my existing power controller, this combo requires the same 17" clearance needed for the SVS SB-12. With a larger space, you can put stuff somewhere else, but this simply isn't an option when you have a 10' square.

As I mentioned to Scott for the HT of the Month article, every inch (literally) counts. smile.gif

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #99 of 146 Old 12-19-2013, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dengland View Post

That space is great. Did you post your REW graphs anywhere? I have been toying with the idea jumping in the REW fray looking at my multiuse (nowhere near as nice) small space.

Thanks!

I did run a few REW tests, but I'm not really happy with the sweeps yet. I'm just learning the software, and think that I'm not testing at a high enough volume or with good mic placement. I hope to play around with it more over the holidays, and then I will definitely post up.

With HDMI and USB mics, there isn't a big investment if you want to play around with REW. All you really need is a miniDSP UMIK-1 for 75 bucks. Good luck.
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Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #100 of 146 Old 12-19-2013, 11:11 AM
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I saw what I'm assuming is an electric baseboard heater behind the couch. I realize the left side of the room is open, but how's the air circulation in the room? Are there air vents in the open part of the room? If so, is there any noise from that?
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post #101 of 146 Old 12-19-2013, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicislife View Post

I saw what I'm assuming is an electric baseboard heater behind the couch. I realize the left side of the room is open, but how's the air circulation in the room? Are there air vents in the open part of the room? If so, is there any noise from that?

cool.gif

I recently moved from the sticky, air conditioned-and-furnaced northeast so I totally get where you're coming from. I now live on the side of a coastal mountain in the northwest, and our house ... ummm, how do I put this ... doesn't have air vents because it isn't air conditioned. The temperature here is pretty much 45 to 70 degrees year round, and there's a constant convective breeze.

Long story short, I just crack open a window on the other side of the basement and cold mountain air sort of rushes in. That side of the house faces away from the street and rarely gets any noise.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #102 of 146 Old 12-21-2013, 09:27 PM
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I now live on the side of a coastal mountain in the northwest ...
Or as we Canucks call it, the southwest ... smile.gif

Beautiful job you've done there, you've given me some great ideas on how I'm going to do my soffits and lighting. Thanks for sharing - l know it's a lot of work documenting and posting the process.
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post #103 of 146 Old 12-22-2013, 10:52 AM
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I wish you could come to my house and work your magic on my basement! This looks like a million dollar theatre! Absolutely stunning!

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post #104 of 146 Old 01-01-2014, 08:03 AM
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Hey Snowkarver
Very nice room but I have a question for ya? What type of materials were used in making the fabric panels for your walls? I`m looking at doing my whole ceiling in my basement and was thinking of doing something like yours (which is awesome)! I`m familiar with Roxul mineral wool for the filler but who made the panel channels that you used? Fabricmate?
Just wondering
ONCE AGAIN YOUR ROOM LOOKS GREAT!
Thinks for your time
Brian
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post #105 of 146 Old 01-02-2014, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Happi Jak View Post

What type of materials were used in making the fabric panels for your walls? I`m looking at doing my whole ceiling in my basement and was thinking of doing something like yours (which is awesome)! I`m familiar with Roxul mineral wool for the filler but who made the panel channels that you used? Fabricmate?

Thanks for the compliment. All the panel work was custom made with lumber, staples, and Guilford of Maine fabric - no commercial channels. I roughly followed the GPowers "fabric panel" method - do a site search - it's the definitive AVS thread for how to do it. Good luck.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #106 of 146 Old 01-02-2014, 11:02 PM - Thread Starter
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The Force is strong in this one.



We received the definitive Star Wars anthology on BD for Christmas and are watching every episode together.

Despite our misgivings, our 2-year old daughter refuses to let us watch without her and especially likes the lightsaber battles.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #107 of 146 Old 01-03-2014, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowkarver View Post

I roughly followed the GPowers "fabric panel" method - do a site search - it's the definitive AVS thread for how to do it. Good luck.

For convenience....
GPowers Fabric Frames Build Thread
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post #108 of 146 Old 01-03-2014, 08:20 PM
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Exclente theater. Might I say that size handle panels you used equally Might I say the color and fabric type and brand
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post #109 of 146 Old 01-12-2014, 11:23 AM
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Holy theater!!!! Congrats my friend. I love your setup and even more that you completed all the work on your on. I must say I commend you on your attention to detail! Overall one of my favorite setups ever.

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post #110 of 146 Old 01-14-2014, 01:57 PM
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Congrats snowkarver!! your HT 2.0 inspired me to upgrade mine. I have a similar size room. You are one of the lucky guy to get the cinevista AL for $1000, its now $1750. so thats off my list and i decided to go DYI AL, also in my list i had 8350 as my upgrade projector, now my questions is how did you manage to convert your 8350 16:9 image to 2.35:1 with the AL? is there a horizontal stretch option in the 8350 or did you use zoom + AL. I am totally new to this 2.35:1
Thanks
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post #111 of 146 Old 01-14-2014, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avad View Post

also in my list i had 8350 as my upgrade projector, now my questions is how did you manage to convert your 8350 16:9 image to 2.35:1 with the AL? is there a horizontal stretch option in the 8350 or did you use zoom + AL. I am totally new to this 2.35:1
Thanks

The 8350 does not have the necessary processing modes. For a fixed a-lens setup, you need vertical stretch for 2.35 material (vertically expands the letterbox to fill the height) and horizontal compression for 16:9 material (horizontally squishes 16:9 into a 4:3 space). The lens then does the final horizontal expansion to correct the AR.

Many Onkyo receievers DO have the necessary modes (called "ZOOM" for the vertical stretch, and "4:3" for the horizontal squish). The TX-NR818, if you can still find one, is a nice anomaly because it's a midrange model with high-end features that usually cost more - Audyssey XT32 and HQV Vida.

But in any case, an Onkyo AVR with the right video modes was the best value I found for anamorphic processing. Much cheaper than a fancy projector or dedicated box.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #112 of 146 Old 01-14-2014, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowkarver View Post

The 8350 does not have the necessary processing modes. For a fixed a-lens setup, you need vertical stretch for 2.35 material (vertically expands the letterbox to fill the height) and horizontal compression for 16:9 material (horizontally squishes 16:9 into a 4:3 space). The lens then does the final horizontal expansion to correct the AR.

Many Onkyo receievers DO have the necessary modes (called "ZOOM" for the vertical stretch, and "4:3" for the horizontal squish). The TX-NR818, if you can still find one, is a nice anomaly because it's a midrange model with high-end features that usually cost more - Audyssey XT32 and HQV Vida.

But in any case, an Onkyo AVR with the right video modes was the best value I found for anamorphic processing. Much cheaper than a fancy projector or dedicated box.

Sorry i too am curious how you got this to work. You lost me a little withthe explantion. So you're saying its your reciever that has the correct setting?
I currently have it set up to zoom the lens and let the horizontal black bars spill off the screen onto the black velvet wall surrounding my screen. no special lens or anything.
I know its not the right way of doing it and causes lots of useless space for my projector to project but i just didnt think it was possible with the 8350 and lens alone.
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post #113 of 146 Old 01-15-2014, 11:07 AM
 
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What a magnificent job. Seeing the space in the first photos and what it became is very inspirational. I would mention every part of it. It makes me enjoy sitting down and putting pencil to paper and working with my tiny under-the-house area. I made a home theater, but seeing what you did with your wall (and everything!) sends me back to the drawing board.

Congratulations on a first class job, now the rest of us know what can be accomplished. cool.gif
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post #114 of 146 Old 01-15-2014, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linkseo View Post

Sorry i too am curious how you got this to work. You lost me a little withthe explantion. So you're saying its your reciever that has the correct setting?
I currently have it set up to zoom the lens and let the horizontal black bars spill off the screen onto the black velvet wall surrounding my screen. no special lens or anything.
I know its not the right way of doing it and causes lots of useless space for my projector to project but i just didnt think it was possible with the 8350 and lens alone.

The projector zoom method you're using is a popular way to do scope, and it works fine for many people. I don't have enough room length to zoom a normal-throw projector that big, so an a-lens was my only option. The other benefit of using the lens of course is that 2.35 content is projected using the full 1080 vertical resolution of the projector, so there are no wasted lines above and below.

As I mentioned, the 8350 doesn't have the necessary processing to make a fixed lens work. Before you send the image to the projector/lens, it has to be digitally stretched or squished. To view 2.35, you need vertical stretch to make the letterboxes disappear (makes the image tall and skinny). To view 16:9, you need horizontal compression to squeeze 16:9 content into a 4:3 space (again, makes things tall and skinny). The lens then widens everything back out again so it looks normal.

Something in your source chain has to provide the digital stretch modes - either the player, the AVR, a dedicated video processor like a Lumagen, or a high-end projector. And you can't really skimp on cheap processing because it would make everything look bad.

So the cheapest, best option I found to get the modes was a $700 Onkyo 818 AVR which comes with an HQV Vida chip (the same one found in dedicated $1K+ processors). Most midrange Onkyo AVRs have a "zoom" mode that is actually vertical stretch for 2.35 content, and a "4:3" mode that is actually horizontal compression for 16:9 content.

Long story short, yes, it is my AVR that adds the necessary processing needed to make an 8350 + lens combo work.
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Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #115 of 146 Old 01-15-2014, 11:57 AM
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Ok thats not good frown.gif i already have denon receiver and i am not planning on getting another one. actually in the 8350 manual under aspect ratio there is a Anamorphic wide setting, do you know what this does?
Looks like my options are to get the 8350 and DVDO Edge Green which is $429 on amazon.
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post #116 of 146 Old 01-15-2014, 12:55 PM
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hmm this is good to know. i'll def look into this when buying a new receiver which would be soon.
what A-lens are you using? thanks
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post #117 of 146 Old 01-21-2014, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avad View Post

Ok thats not good frown.gif i already have denon receiver and i am not planning on getting another one. actually in the 8350 manual under aspect ratio there is a Anamorphic wide setting, do you know what this does?
Looks like my options are to get the 8350 and DVDO Edge Green which is $429 on amazon.

Not familiar with Denon AVRs but you could always double check to see if the required modes are there. You might also be able to find a projector with anamorphic modes for less than the 8350 + processor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by linkseo View Post

hmm this is good to know. i'll def look into this when buying a new receiver which would be soon.
what A-lens are you using? thanks

Panamorph Cinevista. It was a great deal at the old price of around $1k, but I'm not sure I could have pulled the trigger at the current price (out of my budget range).

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #118 of 146 Old 01-21-2014, 02:17 PM
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snowkarver, since your setup is a fixed AL what do you do when you watch regular 16:9 content or 4:3 content? do you make adjustments or just watch it stretched.
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post #119 of 146 Old 01-21-2014, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avad View Post

snowkarver, since your setup is a fixed AL what do you do when you watch regular 16:9 content or 4:3 content? do you make adjustments or just watch it stretched.

My AVR has a reverse anamorphic mode (4:3) that squeezes everything horizontally - making 16:9 and 4:3 content even narrower. The fixed a-lens then expands everything back to the correct aspect ratio.

Theater for Hobbits 1.0 - One of the smallest-ever (13' x 8' x 6'8") AVS builds!

Theater for Hobbits 2.0 - AVS HT of the Month - This time it's 2.35 CIH in a 10' x 10' alcove!

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post #120 of 146 Old 01-21-2014, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowkarver View Post

My AVR has a reverse anamorphic mode (4:3) that squeezes everything horizontally - making 16:9 and 4:3 content even narrower. The fixed a-lens then expands everything back to the correct aspect ratio.

thanks snowkarver, if you know any projector that does the anamorphic stretch please let me know, anything i looked is close to 3k. For now iam still sticking to 8350 + DVDO Edge(i found it for 349 at projectorsuperstore)

Also one more question, how much material of acoustic panels you had to use for the bass trap? based on your HT pictures did you actually cut the 2 x 4's, i too am planning to install bass traps on all four corners.

Thanks again
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